Jensen Button..

..lives about 15 miles from me - an acquaintance of mine's a good friend of his (services his car, if you believe that). So last weekend he was in the local chippy, two months time he'll be banging around all the famous tracks. 20 years old! Did you hear his contract details? Geez, nice work if you can get it. Useless info: his father's a car nut, hence his first name (remember the great Jensen Interceptor?) So what do the Americans think of his appointment? Another slap in the eye for CART? To be fair, Michael Andretti, Cheever and Zanardi were hardly roaring successes...yet Mansell went straight into CART like falling off a log. I'm not intentionally trying to get up the American's noses over this, but is the standard so much worse in CART? -- Colin Harris Proud co-owner - CLONE N.Legends league http://members.chello.se/clone/index.htm

There is no relations between an American and Button getting a wheel with Williams. CART is not an US racing-only series. I think you forgot major driver from CART : Jacques Villeneuve. He obviously makes up for any bad driver the CART series gave to F1. -- -- Fran?ois Mnard <emend> -- May the Downforce be with you... "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

And Mario Andretti who won a world championship against the likes of Niki Lauda. Dave

Quoted text (9 lines)

> > So what do the Americans think of his appointment? > There is no relations between an American and Button getting a wheel with > Williams. > > Another slap in the eye > > for CART? > CART is not an US racing-only series. I think you forgot major driver

from

Quoted text (9 lines)

> CART : Jacques Villeneuve. He obviously makes up for any bad driver the > CART series gave to F1. > -- > -- Fran?ois Mnard <emend> > -- May the Downforce be with you... > "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

FYI, the fastest way to offend a Canadian (i.e. me) is to call him/her a "colonial" :)

Quoted text (15 lines)

> I'll grant you Mario, albeit a long time ago, but surely the jury's still > out on Jacques (and no offence to my colonial Canadian cousins)? I reckon > even James Feeney could have sent that car to a championship that year.. > -- > Colin Harris > Proud co-owner - CLONE N.Legends league > http://members.chello.se/clone/index.htm > > And Mario Andretti who won a world championship against the likes of

Niki

Quoted text (20 lines)

> > Lauda. > > Dave > > > > So what do the Americans think of his appointment? > > > There is no relations between an American and Button getting a wheel > with > > > Williams. > > > > Another slap in the eye > > > > for CART? > > > CART is not an US racing-only series. I think you forgot major driver > > from > > > CART : Jacques Villeneuve. He obviously makes up for any bad driver

the

Quoted text (9 lines)

> > > CART series gave to F1. > > > -- > > > -- Fran?ois Mnard <emend> > > > -- May the Downforce be with you... > > > "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't > realise > > > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

That colonial Canadian cousin of yours (JV) is still considered by many to be one of the top three drivers in the world today, and thats not just here in Canada. The way you are looking at F1 is that the best car always wins no matter who drives it and I don't think thats always true. The car and the driver go hand in hand, put Michael Andretti in the Mclaren and I still think he could not win the championship. I'm sure if you put Michael Schumacher in the Minardi he could not win the championship either. The bottom line is you have to have both, a great car and a great driver. I think the last truly great American F1 driver was Mario Andretti but that was quite some time ago. Steve!

Quoted text (15 lines)

> I'll grant you Mario, albeit a long time ago, but surely the jury's still > out on Jacques (and no offence to my colonial Canadian cousins)? I reckon > even James Feeney could have sent that car to a championship that year.. > -- > Colin Harris > Proud co-owner - CLONE N.Legends league > http://members.chello.se/clone/index.htm > > And Mario Andretti who won a world championship against the likes of

Niki

Quoted text (20 lines)

> > Lauda. > > Dave > > > > So what do the Americans think of his appointment? > > > There is no relations between an American and Button getting a wheel > with > > > Williams. > > > > Another slap in the eye > > > > for CART? > > > CART is not an US racing-only series. I think you forgot major driver > > from > > > CART : Jacques Villeneuve. He obviously makes up for any bad driver

the

Quoted text (9 lines)

> > > CART series gave to F1. > > > -- > > > -- Fran?ois Mnard <emend> > > > -- May the Downforce be with you... > > > "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't > realise > > > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

but surely the jury's still well, he sure could bang wheels much better with Schumi than that Hill guy.

Was Cheever in CART??? Man, I've been following CART since my first Indy 500 back in '80 (the last 500 I attended being... Anyone??? That's right, 1995... but that's a different can o' worms!) and I can't seem to recall a guy by the name of Cheever being in Victory Circle. I've heard the name Cheever in the IRL, but never in CART. Are you *sure*?!? Yeah, there was a *bit* of sarcasm in that statement... Warlock!

Quoted text (17 lines)

> ..lives about 15 miles from me - an acquaintance of mine's a good friend of > his (services his car, if you believe that). So last weekend he was in the > local chippy, two months time he'll be banging around all the famous tracks. > 20 years old! Did you hear his contract details? Geez, nice work if you can > get it. Useless info: his father's a car nut, hence his first name (remember > the great Jensen Interceptor?) > So what do the Americans think of his appointment? Another slap in the eye > for CART? To be fair, Michael Andretti, Cheever and Zanardi were hardly > roaring successes...yet Mansell went straight into CART like falling off a > log. I'm not intentionally trying to get up the American's noses over this, > but is the standard so much worse in CART? > -- > Colin Harris > Proud co-owner - CLONE N.Legends league > http://members.chello.se/clone/index.htm

Well, my nose isn't really that big anyway. :) I think the grip and braking characteristics of the two different formulas are just that much different. I'm beginning to think that F1 cars are far enough removed in handling characteristic from CART cars that it approaches the difference between NASCAR and British Touring Cars (I'm making light, of course). The cars look similar from the exterior, but they're so different it's like learning to drive all over again. That said, I'm also willing to wager that the European F1 drivers also have an edge because the farm system in Europe is so much better at grooming F1 drivers than the farm system is in the USA. The interest in open-wheeled racing just isn't the same here in the USA. -Chris- Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

I'll grant you Mario, albeit a long time ago, but surely the jury's still out on Jacques (and no offence to my colonial Canadian cousins)? I reckon even James Feeney could have sent that car to a championship that year.. -- Colin Harris Proud co-owner - CLONE N.Legends league http://members.chello.se/clone/index.htm > And Mario Andretti who won a world championship against the likes of Niki > Lauda. > Dave > > > So what do the Americans think of his appointment? > > There is no relations between an American and Button getting a wheel with > > Williams. > > > Another slap in the eye > > > for CART? > > CART is not an US racing-only series. I think you forgot major driver > from > > CART : Jacques Villeneuve. He obviously makes up for any bad driver the > > CART series gave to F1. > > -- > > -- Fran?ois Mnard <emend> > > -- May the Downforce be with you... > > "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise > > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

To be fair, Michael Andretti, Cheever and Zanardi were hardly Better ask Mark Blundell <G> MS

Andretti came from a time when drivers drove many different forms of racing, and that is the difference. Racing today with Nascar, Cart, and even Dirt cars have become so different to drive making the changes can be hard. Look at Steve Kinser a great WoO sprint car driver. Well he has always gotten waxed at Indy. Robbie Gordon got hammered in Nascar and he was fast when he ran for Roush in IMSA years back. Andretti is one the few guys who won in Nascar, Champ cars, Formula 1, Sports Cars and even Dirt cars. During that time tho Formula 1 guys raced more then just Formula 1. Now it have become so specialized that even Busch GN owners don't want their guys doing one off rides in wC since it takes the edge off of them. Hell could you see Scheumaher trying a Champ car then going back to Formula 1 then next weekend or day. It won't happen. Dave

oh, that's not the fastest way... -- Colin Harris Proud co-owner - CLONE N.Legends league http://members.chello.se/clone/index.htm > FYI, the fastest way to offend a Canadian (i.e. me) is to call him/her a > "colonial" :) > > I'll grant you Mario, albeit a long time ago, but surely the jury's still > > out on Jacques (and no offence to my colonial Canadian cousins)? I reckon > > even James Feeney could have sent that car to a championship that year.. > > -- > > Colin Harris > > Proud co-owner - CLONE N.Legends league > > http://members.chello.se/clone/index.htm > > > And Mario Andretti who won a world championship against the likes of > Niki > > > Lauda. > > > Dave > > > > > So what do the Americans think of his appointment? > > > > There is no relations between an American and Button getting a wheel > > with > > > > Williams. > > > > > Another slap in the eye > > > > > for CART? > > > > CART is not an US racing-only series. I think you forgot major driver > > > from > > > > CART : Jacques Villeneuve. He obviously makes up for any bad driver > the > > > > CART series gave to F1. > > > > -- > > > > -- Fran?ois Mnard <emend> > > > > -- May the Downforce be with you... > > > > "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't > > realise > > > > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Tires and brakes laddie! CART drivers get those wonderfully old fashioned Slick Tires. The wiggly efoners us groovy tires. The F1 brakes are similar to using the anchor from the Titanic. Remember tho that CART cars have a more powerful engine and less Aero downforce. They do still have tunnel bottoms tho. And the car is heavier. Add all these factors in and you have a widening gap between the way a CHAMP car drives and the way a Formula 1 car handles. As far as Zanardi's performance. On several occasions he turned faster laps than his team-mate, but it took him much longer at each track to acheive those times. And the F1 he came back to was certainly not very resembling the F1 he left. And Andretti. Lessee. When he joined, they didn't have a car to test, didn't have an engine, didn't have a Number One driver and the package that eventually was produced was lackluster at best. Senna held Mclaren hostage that year. Really crippled any chance for Mikey to do well. Jacques? almost twice world champion, the man who brought asymetrical setups back to F1. His Williams was a mere shadow of the active suspensioned Turbocharged cars that FW produced BEFORE JV got there. 'Ol Nige had the best motor in CART that year(FORD), the best chassis, and the best crew-cheif. Read this week's new editon of Autoweek to find out one reason Red 5 won the champeenship with Newman-Haas. And don't forget it was Nige who got outfoxed at the Brickyard by a couple of Cart boys. I'm not defending the lads, just showing that the series are diverging at an alarming rate. dave henrie

Quoted text (17 lines)

> ..lives about 15 miles from me - an acquaintance of mine's a good friend of > his (services his car, if you believe that). So last weekend he was in the > local chippy, two months time he'll be banging around all the famous tracks. > 20 years old! Did you hear his contract details? Geez, nice work if you can > get it. Useless info: his father's a car nut, hence his first name (remember > the great Jensen Interceptor?) > So what do the Americans think of his appointment? Another slap in the eye > for CART? To be fair, Michael Andretti, Cheever and Zanardi were hardly > roaring successes...yet Mansell went straight into CART like falling off a > log. I'm not intentionally trying to get up the American's noses over this, > but is the standard so much worse in CART? > -- > Colin Harris > Proud co-owner - CLONE N.Legends league > http://members.chello.se/clone/index.htm

Correct me if I'm wrong, but afaik Button's first name is in fact JensOn and not JensEn... The car tho, was (also afaik) named Jensen.. Maybe his dad thought differently? :-) Ed Solheim

: And Mario Andretti who won a world championship against the likes of Niki : Lauda. A lot of people think he's past it, but I will be watching the LeMans this year with fascination. He's still up to the task, and it seems the Audis are. Considering he was lapping the Ganassi 2-seater champ car just a few seconds off the pole time at laguna, the old guy is still quick. And he has had an amazing career that does deserve respect, despite all the detractors' comments (it was all the Lotus wing car blah blah blah). Stephen

: So what do the Americans think of his appointment? Another slap in the eye : for CART? To be fair, Michael Andretti, Cheever and Zanardi were hardly : roaring successes...yet Mansell went straight into CART like falling off a : log. I'm not intentionally trying to get up the American's noses over this, : but is the standard so much worse in CART? Cheever had his moments in F1. Not superstar quality, but some solid drives. Villeneuve seemed to make the transition rather well. I think the main problem is that CART gives their competitors a monster car with gobs of power that you can actually drive, whereas F1 has given their competitors a twitchy little bundle of nerves that no longer responds to what used to be considered racecar driving. Er, then again, that doesn't explain why someone like Buttons can come along, fresh out of only a few years of driving a more conventional F3(000?) car and post quick lap times. Hmmmm. Personally, I don't care about the whole argument of CART vs F1. The drivers in either series are incredibly talented. The speed at which things happen in champ cars or F1 cars is difficult to comprehend. Either car has 800+ hp strapped to the back and serious levels of cornering grip. I even give a guy like Vitolo credit for tootling around at 90% of the pole speed, because I'd be lucky to get out of the pit lane without looping it. By the way, anyone notice that Ganassi has also built a "two-headed beast" (two seat champ car like McLaren's F1 taxi)? Mario zipped guest around Laguna Seca at about 4-5 seconds off the pole time. Go Mario! Stephen

"No, I am *not* an American..." :) Stephen : oh, that's not the fastest way... :> FYI, the fastest way to offend a Canadian (i.e. me) is to call him/her a :> "colonial" :) :>

: I'll grant you Mario, albeit a long time ago, but surely the jury's still : out on Jacques (and no offence to my colonial Canadian cousins)? I reckon : even James Feeney could have sent that car to a championship that year.. Seems Frentzen didn't manage it, and he was the guy who out-paced Schumacher in sports cars and has supposedly matured into a top-level driver. This jury has firmly decided for Villeneuve and his talent. Stephen

I think this is that CART 101, driving experience thing. Something similar to the Richard Petty Driving Experince, 'cept you're in a two seater CART/CHAMP car. According to last weeks National Speed Sport News, CART 101 had their second wreck. One of them resulted in the passenger breaking a leg or two. Otis Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

> And Andretti. Lessee. When he joined, they didn't have a car to >test, didn't have an engine, didn't have a Number One driver and the >package that eventually was produced was lackluster at best. Senna >held Mclaren hostage that year. Really crippled any chance for Mikey to >do well. Lacklustre? Senna drove that car to FIVE (count 'em) victories - was Mikey driving a different car? At least both Villeneuve and to a lesser extent Zanardi drove times resembling those of their team-mate, whereas Mikey was never on the same racetrack. As for testing, electing to live in, and commute from, the USA dealt a far weightier blow to any potential testing time. Cheers! John

On 25 Jan 2000 00:43:29 GMT, "David" >Hell could you see Scheumaher trying a Champ car then going back to Formula >1 then next weekend or day. It won't happen. Like Mansell, heading off and winning the CART championship then popping back over to succesfully reel off a few races in F1? Or Senna, racing F1 and having an extremely impressive CART test? It's possible. Cheers! John

On 24 Jan 2000 22:36:44 GMT, "David" >And Mario Andretti who won a world championship against the likes of Niki >Lauda. With all due respect, I could probably have won the championship in that car... Cheers! John

Edwin Solheim skrev i meldingen ... Maybe his dad wasn't too great at spelling. Anyways, he's already bought it IMO. I can hear Murray now.... "Right on the Button" "Button's Up!" "Turns on a button" "Looks somebody pressed the Button" etc etc :-) Matt

> By the way, anyone notice that Ganassi has also built a "two-headed > beast" (two seat champ car like McLaren's F1 taxi)? Mario zipped guest > around Laguna Seca at about 4-5 seconds off the pole time. Go Mario! > Stephen Didn't one of the CART Japanese drivers loose his CART license because Mario with a Passenger was turning laps faster than the driver? Can't think of who it was tho... dave henrie

Nope. CART 101 (www.driving101.com) uses single seat replica Champ cars with 550hp engines, so that is why CART 101 is like the Petty experience. The Ganassi car is a one-off built by the Target team, and run only by the Target team. It's a high-speed taxi ride for VIPs, just like the McLaren. There is an article about it in the January Road & track. Stephen :> :> By the way, anyone notice that Ganassi has also built a "two-headed :> beast" (two seat champ car like McLaren's F1 taxi)? Mario zipped : guest :> around Laguna Seca at about 4-5 seconds off the pole time. Go Mario! :> : I think this is that CART 101, driving experience thing. Something : similar to the Richard Petty Driving Experince, 'cept you're in a two : seater CART/CHAMP car. According to last weeks National Speed Sport : News, CART 101 had their second wreck. One of them resulted in the : passenger breaking a leg or two. : Otis : Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ : Before you buy.

> ..lives about 15 miles from me - an acquaintance of mine's a good friend of > his (services his car, if you believe that). So last weekend he was in the > local chippy, two months time he'll be banging around all the famous tracks. > 20 years old! Did you hear his contract details? Geez, nice work if you can > get it. Useless info: his father's a car nut, hence his first name (remember > the great Jensen Interceptor?) It's Jenson, by the way. Geez, is everyone really this nationalistic? No wonder there's so many wars. It actually never occurred to me to be outraged that an Italian driver was ousted by an English team, even though he once had success on American soil. I do feel sorry for Zanardi, though, mainly because he seems like a really nice guy. I also feel sorry for Ralf, who showed himself to be one of the top drivers in F1 last year. He's going to have a long year driving the Williams. They're going to have some serious reliability problems this year. And, while I enjoy CART, I agree that the top drivers in F1 are superior to the top drivers in CART. Villeneuve has been the rare exception, although he has some genetic advantages. I doubt if a CART test driver could win the F1 championship as a rookie. Dave Ewing -- ***************************************************** David A. Ewing *****************************************************

Dave Henrie Remember who replaced Michael? Mika Hakkinen, who outqualified Senna in his second race. Jarno

LOL! Look at me, I'm Schumacher!

With all due respect, Andretti was one of the reasons the car was built and went well. His attention to setting up a car properly is one of the reasons the car went to well. Also I get tired of everyone discounting Andretti's World Championship because he had a good car. Hell Lauda won in 1975 due to having a good car. McLaren won a bunch of championships due to having good cars, but no one dares to say those championships were won due to better cars not the driver. Dave > On 24 Jan 2000 22:36:44 GMT, "David" > >And Mario Andretti who won a world championship against the likes of Niki

Quoted text (7 lines)

> >Lauda. > With all due respect, I could probably have won the championship in > that car... > Cheers! > John

The CART 101 is a tubeframe car built to look like a Reynard. The Target 2 seater is a Reynard chassis. Dave

Quoted text (15 lines)

> > By the way, anyone notice that Ganassi has also built a "two-headed > > beast" (two seat champ car like McLaren's F1 taxi)? Mario zipped > guest > > around Laguna Seca at about 4-5 seconds off the pole time. Go Mario! > I think this is that CART 101, driving experience thing. Something > similar to the Richard Petty Driving Experince, 'cept you're in a two > seater CART/CHAMP car. According to last weeks National Speed Sport > News, CART 101 had their second wreck. One of them resulted in the > passenger breaking a leg or two. > Otis > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.

Michael was close for the past few years

Quoted text (27 lines)

>With all due respect, Andretti was one of the reasons the car was built >and went well. His attention to setting up a car properly is one of the >reasons the car went to well. >Also I get tired of everyone discounting Andretti's World Championship >because he had a good car. Hell Lauda won in 1975 due to having a good >car. McLaren won a bunch of championships due to having good cars, but no >one dares to say those championships were won due to better cars not the >driver. >Dave >> On 24 Jan 2000 22:36:44 GMT, "David" >> >And Mario Andretti who won a world championship against the likes of >Niki >> >Lauda. >> With all due respect, I could probably have won the championship in >> that car... >> Cheers! >> John