OT: F1: Rumor no longer, Zanardi officially out at Williams

DailyF1 News reports that Williams/BMW announced yesterday: "Zanardi will not drive for us in 2000" Current rumors hint at Jos Verstappen or JJ Lehto, with an outside chance for newcomers Jenson Button and Bruno Junqueira... Once again, an Indycar driver fails to make the grade in F1. Maybe Dennis Vitolo... BB

One year isnt near enough time to familirize yourself with an F1 car. And for the record Hakkenin didnt do a damn bit better than Andretti for the rest of that season. Yea hes winning races now but thats 5 years later...hes had plenty of time to get used to the ins-and-outs of an F1 car. Not to mention McLaren has gotten a car thats probably the best in F1 today. Chris

A F1 driver originally before going to Indy. for Come on. The guy was hardly a F1 Rookie, had plenty of testing and never showed any reasonable improvement all season. 1 race was good enough for Villeneuve. He would have won his first run at Melbourne were it not for an oil leak on his car. Apart from the fact that he outqualified Senna on his first outing! I think the guy did pretty good in a team going through it's death throes before joining the Macca's Yea hes winning races now but thats 5 years later...hes had No more or less than anyone else. Cars have changed pretty radically in the last few years. Not to mention Aint that the case with most champions these days MS

I'd put my money on Button to get the seat. The kid is good! Wayne Hutchison

Do you people even realize that Zanardi was a F1 driver in the early-mid 90's before he became a CART superstar??? BTW, he sucked back then and proved that his problem was not equipment. -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com > > >Once again, an Indycar driver fails to >make the grade in F1 > A F1 driver originally before going to Indy. > > One year isnt near enough time to familirize yourself with an F1 car. And > for > Come on. The guy was hardly a F1 Rookie, had plenty of testing and never > showed any reasonable improvement all season. 1 race was good enough for > Villeneuve. He would have won his first run at Melbourne were it not for an > oil leak on his car. > > the record Hakkenin didnt do a damn bit better than Andretti for the rest > of > > that season. > Apart from the fact that he outqualified Senna on his first outing! I think > the guy did pretty good in a team going through it's death throes before > joining the Macca's > Yea hes winning races now but thats 5 years later...hes had > > plenty of time to get used to the ins-and-outs of an F1 car. > No more or less than anyone else. Cars have changed pretty radically in the > last few years. > Not to mention > > McLaren has gotten a car thats probably the best in F1 today. > Aint that the case with most champions these days > MS

This isn't surprising. Zanardi sucked when he was a back marker in F1 in the early 90's. IMHO it just shows that a poor F1 driver can kick ass in CART. Vitolo??? Please. I am hoping that Dario F will give F1 a shot. -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

Yes Dario in an F1 car would ROCK!!!!

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> > DailyF1 News reports that Williams/BMW announced yesterday: "Zanardi > > will not drive for us in 2000" > > Current rumors hint at Jos Verstappen or JJ Lehto, with an outside > > chance for newcomers Jenson Button and Bruno Junqueira... > > Once again, an Indycar driver fails to make the grade in F1. Maybe > > Dennis Vitolo... > This isn't surprising. Zanardi sucked when he was a back > marker in F1 in the early 90's. IMHO it just shows that a poor > F1 driver can kick ass in CART. > Vitolo??? Please. I am hoping that Dario F will give F1 a shot. > -- > Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. > cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

Zanardi drove for Lotus and back then Lotus SUCKED! So give the guy a break he did not have the best car then. As far as him being a great CART driver I think that 90% is your car anyway. Just look at Eddie Irvine, this guy couldn't get out of his own way before Ferrari. Another example is Jacques Villeneuve. World champion in 97 could barely make the podium in 98 and finished only a handful of races in 99. Look at Damon Hill. Need I keep going? Are these guys bad drivers? I dont think so. It is like horse racing, the guy with the best horse will win most of the time. You need the car to win. I know that Schumacher (Ralf) out raced him every race but he was also not use to the car (same thing with Damon Hill). They even put the CART style breaks on the Williams last year to try and help Zanardi. I think if you put Micheal Schumacher in a shitty car he would not do well either (and on that note he would be alot faster than anyone else in the same car!). Just my opinion. Al Stiff

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> Do you people even realize that Zanardi was a F1 driver in > the early-mid 90's before he became a CART superstar??? > BTW, he sucked back then and proved that his problem was > not equipment. > -- > Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. > cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com > > > >Once again, an Indycar driver fails to >make the grade in F1 > > A F1 driver originally before going to Indy. > > > One year isnt near enough time to familirize yourself with an F1 car. > And > > for > > Come on. The guy was hardly a F1 Rookie, had plenty of testing and never > > showed any reasonable improvement all season. 1 race was good enough for > > Villeneuve. He would have won his first run at Melbourne were it not for > an > > oil leak on his car. > > > the record Hakkenin didnt do a damn bit better than Andretti for the > rest > > of > > > that season. > > Apart from the fact that he outqualified Senna on his first outing! I > think > > the guy did pretty good in a team going through it's death throes before > > joining the Macca's > > Yea hes winning races now but thats 5 years later...hes had > > > plenty of time to get used to the ins-and-outs of an F1 car. > > No more or less than anyone else. Cars have changed pretty radically in > the > > last few years. > > Not to mention > > > McLaren has gotten a car thats probably the best in F1 today. > > Aint that the case with most champions these days > > MS

Well Dario was beaten pretty soundly by Juan and also Alex, in Cart. Dave

What about Villenuve, 1st year in F1, 2nd in points and in contention until the last race, 2nd year, Champion. To email me remove the "u"s

A tie in points is Soundly?

It proves to me only that CART racers have a really hard time in F1. The fact that Villeneuve made a good impression was IMHO due to the exceptionally fast Williams in his debut-year, the thorough pre-season training he got (when compared to Zanardi and Andretti), but even more due to the fact that he drove against Damon Hill. Andretti was totally destroyed by SEnna, and so was Damon Hill. If Andretti would have driven against someone of the caliber of Damon Hill, he would have looked much better. Same goes to some extend for Zanardi.

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> What about Villenuve, 1st year in F1, 2nd in points and in contention > until the last race, 2nd year, Champion. > >>Once again, an Indycar driver fails to >make the grade in F1 > >One year isnt near enough time to familirize yourself with an F1 car.

And for > >the record Hakkenin didnt do a damn bit better than Andretti for the rest of > >that season. Yea hes winning races now but thats 5 years later...hes had > >plenty of time to get used to the ins-and-outs of an F1 car. Not to mention > >McLaren has gotten a car thats probably the best in F1 today. > >Chris > To email me remove the "u"s

Um... Schumacher won 2 championships in a row with Bennaton. The team sucked as soon as he left. I was pretty much with you on most of your points until this :-) -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

> Andretti was totally destroyed by SEnna, and so was Damon Hill. If Andretti > would have driven against someone of the caliber of Damon Hill, he would > have looked much better. Same goes to some extend for Zanardi. Not on the podium he wouldn't have looked better. Andretti would still have had to make good starts and Finnish races. He did Finnish in the points in a couple of races though. I do wish he had stuck it out for more than 3/4 of a year though. IMHO he bailed too fast. -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

Lets see Juan 7 wins and Dario hmmmmmmm 3. Also Dario does not possess the car control the Juan has. Dave

Greg Cisko <no.spam.email.for.me> wrote in article Well I think McLaren bailed on Andretti, midseason. Also they never gave him enough testing time. Having him drive with Senna would to me be an advantage with the proper testing program. Zanardi spoke of finding new limits to drive at even in testing. The cars he was driving even in F1 years back is so different thent he new car. That I think is the problem no one ever gave any thought into the difference between the cars CART to F1. Dave

Exactly Greg. Zanardi got blown away at Lotus as well. Anyone remember the idiot trying to drive a fireball for half a lap? MS

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> Do you people even realize that Zanardi was a F1 driver in > the early-mid 90's before he became a CART superstar??? > BTW, he sucked back then and proved that his problem was > not equipment. > -- > Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. > cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com > > > >Once again, an Indycar driver fails to >make the grade in F1 > > A F1 driver originally before going to Indy. > > > One year isnt near enough time to familirize yourself with an F1 car. > And > > for > > Come on. The guy was hardly a F1 Rookie, had plenty of testing and never > > showed any reasonable improvement all season. 1 race was good enough for > > Villeneuve. He would have won his first run at Melbourne were it not for > an > > oil leak on his car. > > > the record Hakkenin didnt do a damn bit better than Andretti for the > rest > > of > > > that season. > > Apart from the fact that he outqualified Senna on his first outing! I > think > > the guy did pretty good in a team going through it's death throes before > > joining the Macca's > > Yea hes winning races now but thats 5 years later...hes had > > > plenty of time to get used to the ins-and-outs of an F1 car. > > No more or less than anyone else. Cars have changed pretty radically in > the > > last few years. > > Not to mention > > > McLaren has gotten a car thats probably the best in F1 today. > > Aint that the case with most champions these days > > MS

But never compared against team mates very well . Another example is Jacques A proven driver and world champ. How did he fare against Frentzen and Zonta? Look at Damon Hill. Need I keep Need I? I'm not trying to sound *** here but let's put the argument into proper perspective. Are these guys bad drivers? I dont think so. Neither is Zanardi. The guy is a fine driver but he can't cut it in F1. It is like horse racing, Not if the jockey keeps falling off the horse <G> I know that Schumacher (Ralf) out raced him every race but he was also But Ralph was FAST in a Jordan in HIS first year, even if he did have a tendancy to throw it off the road at the time. MS

On Sun, 23 Jan 2000 10:23:25 -0500, "Wayne Hutchison" >I'd put my money on Button to get the seat. The kid is good! Yes, if I remember correctly the german DSF stated a few days ago that Button was to get the seat (Button is the young (20y?) driver, or?). Daniel -- ICQ UIN: 30333508 http://www.topofgames.de || http://danielshome.cjb.net

> Vitolo??? Please. I am hoping that Dario F will give F1 a shot. Not before his time - with the greatest respect to his abilities, I don't think Dario's quite ready for F1. One more season in CART and after demonstrating his commitment and maturity, he should be looking to move in 2001. Going to F1 before drivers are ready can break their spirits and ruin any chances they may have had. Not many get a second chance, certainly not in the top team seats anyway. Mike.

I think it was a combination of both F1 as an entity, McLaren and Andretti himself. Andretti didn't really help the cause by refusing to relocate to England. Mike.

Yeah. He's good alright. I think he could do with a season in F3000 and maybe a test drive at this stage though. Then again, uncle Frank has a reputation for hiring "cheap" employees and firing them when it comes to paying champion's salaries. MS

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> I'd put my money on Button to get the seat. The kid is good! > Wayne Hutchison > > DailyF1 News reports that Williams/BMW announced yesterday: "Zanardi > > will not drive for us in 2000" > > Current rumors hint at Jos Verstappen or JJ Lehto, with an outside > > chance for newcomers Jenson Button and Bruno Junqueira... > > Once again, an Indycar driver fails to make the grade in F1. Maybe > > Dennis Vitolo... > > BB

I think the trick to moving from CART to F1 is to not stay in CART too long. Jacques only spent a couple of season there. The cars are so different that I doubt anyone who has raced only in CART for more than 5 years could make the transition. Actually, Andretti said something to that effect a few years ago when asked if he thought Jacques should make the move to F1. He felt that he had waited too long to try F1 and just simply couldn't adjust. Wayne Hutchison > > Vitolo??? Please. I am hoping that Dario F will give F1 a shot. > Not before his time - with the greatest respect to his abilities, I don't > think Dario's quite ready for F1. One more season in CART and after > demonstrating his commitment and maturity, he should be looking to move in > 2001. Going to F1 before drivers are ready can break their spirits and ruin > any chances they may have had. Not many get a second chance, certainly not > in the top team seats anyway. > Mike.

See McLaren's Tyler Alexander's comments on Michael Andretti's half-hearted foray into F1. Andretti attempted to spend most of his F1 year shuttling back and forth to the US, instead of buckling down to the task at hand. The old chestnut about McLaren not giving hin enough testing time is hogwash -- Andretti was too busy opening KMarts in the US to get serious in F1. You have to do the work to get the results, and Andretti apparently felt he was above doing the work. Where is he now? BB

The cars were different back then, though. When an F1 car had proper tyres and was the proper width, it was not *too* dissimilar to a Champ Car, relative to 1999 when the cars were far too nervous and had totally different tyres. As a result Villeneuve adapted far more easily. He also had more testing time then Zanardi. If I were Sir Frank and had to choose between Button, Junqueira and Zanardi I would choose Zanardi every time, the other two would have too little and experience and a better-prepared Zanardi would do a better job. IMHO of course :-)) -- Cheers! Graeme Nash

I think they should just bring Ukyo Katayama back and have him hold up 90% of the field

: Do you people even realize that Zanardi was a F1 driver in : the early-mid 90's before he became a CART superstar??? : BTW, he sucked back then and proved that his problem was : not equipment. But he did provide some "entertainment". Nothing like dragging a flaming Lotus around half a lap of Imola. Less entertaining was his hammering at Eau Rouge, which foreshadowed Villeneuve's antics several years later - the active cars could be quite evil at times, and that accident took my breath away. Stephen

no.spam.email.for.me wrote on 23-01-2000 17:49:

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>> style breaks on the Williams last year to try and help Zanardi. I think if >> you put Micheal Schumacher in a shitty car he would not do well either > (and >> on that note he would be alot faster than anyone else in the same car!). > Um... Schumacher won 2 championships in a row with Bennaton. > The team sucked as soon as he left. I was pretty much with you > on most of your points until this :-) > -- > Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. > cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com >> Just my opinion.

In the GT1 group (Endurance) Michael was really promising. But the two other teammates we're better (According to what I've read in magazines). The 1st one was Karl Wendlinger and the 2nd was Heinz Harald Frentzen. Michael is the fastest driver but not the best driver. The effort that Ferrari made over the last few years to become a contender is that they changed drama for clinics. And 2nd thing is that they actually started to listen to the driver(s). According to what I've heard in interviews with Jean Alesi and Gerhard Berger. The main reason (I think) that Zanardi left is the same as Hill left. To be taken and paid seriously.

long. Yeah, definitely Mike.

Well we will soon find out when Juan moves on to F1. We will see if Cart takes any of the edge off his driving. Dave > > I think the trick to moving from CART to F1 is to not stay in CART too > long. > Yeah, definitely > Mike.

Michael Andretti isn't doing much except being a top contender for the Fed-Ex Cart championship. Joel Willstein

Like I said... where is he now? BB > Michael Andretti isn't doing much except being a top contender for the > Fed-Ex Cart championship. > Joel Willstein