Goddamn hearing impaired employees

I call EB to find out if they have a LWFF, only to find a recording that says, "The employee at this store is hearing impaired, please dial 1-800- bla bla bla, then ask the operator to dial 813-blah blah blah." So then, when I try it, no one even answers! AAAAAAHHHHHHHH DONT PUT A GODDAMN DEAF PERSON TO ANSWER DAMN PHONES

Wow! You sound like a real understanding and careing person. Wonder how you'd felt if you were the one that had a dissabillity? Grow up. -- Ed Solheim The Paddock - a legendary site.... ** Proud member of the GPLEA **

They shouldnt take a job that requires answering a phone.

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> Wow! > You sound like a real understanding and careing person. > Wonder how you'd felt if you were the one that had a dissabillity? > Grow up. > -- > Ed Solheim > The Paddock - a legendary site.... > ** Proud member of the GPLEA ** > > I call EB to find out if they have a LWFF, only to find a recording that > > says, "The employee at this store is hearing impaired, please dial

1-800- > > bla bla bla, then ask the operator to dial 813-blah blah blah." So then, > > when I try it, no one even answers! AAAAAAHHHHHHHH DONT PUT A GODDAMN DEAF > > PERSON TO ANSWER DAMN PHONES

On the following date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 11:17:32 -0500, said person(s) tampa, that name short for tampax? - James "Gunslinger" Wohlever Techware Computer Services http://techware.gtinsider.com Send ATTACHMENTS (Files) to:

And those handicapped bastards that park in our spots! And don't forget the orphans, those mooching little ***s! Ebenezer Scrooge

Last time I checked, working at EB entailed much more than answering a phone. If you want to know if they have it, get your a$$ in the car and drive down to EB and ask the person face to face. BTW, any job can entail answering a phone if you happen to be the person standing next to it when it rings and no one else is around. Damned lazy people....especially the prejudiced ones.....

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>They shouldnt take a job that requires answering a phone. >> Wow! >> You sound like a real understanding and careing person. >> Wonder how you'd felt if you were the one that had a dissabillity? >> Grow up. >> -- >> Ed Solheim >> The Paddock - a legendary site.... >> ** Proud member of the GPLEA ** >> > I call EB to find out if they have a LWFF, only to find a recording

that >> > says, "The employee at this store is hearing impaired, please dial >1-800- >> > bla bla bla, then ask the operator to dial 813-blah blah blah." So then, >> > when I try it, no one even answers! AAAAAAHHHHHHHH DONT PUT A GODDAMN >DEAF >> > PERSON TO ANSWER DAMN PHONES

: Last time I checked, working at EB entailed much more than answering a : phone. If you want to know if they have it, get your a$$ in the car and : drive down to EB and ask the person face to face. Yeah, that's a good idea. Instead of making a 10 cent phone call, hop in your car, burn a gallon of fuel, throw some more ***into the air. Stephen

>And those handicapped bastards that park in our spots! And don't forget the >orphans, those mooching little ***s! >Ebenezer Scrooge I agree with you: I hate when those handicapped people take GOOD jobs from us "able-bodied" types... Shame on them; they should be sitting at home on the couch collecting Social Security like everyone ELSE. lol BTW, Ebenezer, that was funny as hell! Gunner

Oh, I forgot to add... Or, you could have been a friggin' "man" and kept trying the second call that patches you through until you get through to someone. Instead you take the time to get online and write an inflammatory post about people with hearing impairment. If you had spent that time trying to get through, most probably, you'd have gotten through before the post was done. Note to Steve, Or, you can sit on a computer that during the course of manufacture polluted the environment with many solvents, and during operation burns electricity that most likely was produced at least partially through burning of fossil fuels. Also, the operation of the computers can produce the "bad" kind of ozone that...blah, blah, blah....the sky is falling.... Also, seeing that you are on the RAS newsgroup, I will assume you are a motorsports fan of some sort. If this is true, then unless you watch only solar powered car racing (or hydrogen), then you too contribute to dumping that ***into the air. I also doubt you wring your hands every lap saying, "oh no, there's another gallon in the air." One lap in a race car puts as much "crap", if not more, into the air as one of my trips to EB. So I fail to see your point in taking the environmental high-road in this. Point I was trying to make was that he was being small minded AND whining instead of being proactive in his attempt to get the information he needed. Unfortunately, I clicked my message out before I was finished with my post. My apologies. Ian

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>: Last time I checked, working at EB entailed much more than answering a >: phone. If you want to know if they have it, get your a$$ in the car and >: drive down to EB and ask the person face to face. >Yeah, that's a good idea. Instead of making a 10 cent phone call, hop in >your car, burn a gallon of fuel, throw some more ***into the air. >Stephen

Go crawl back in your hole you ***ing ***. -Tim

Some of the best taxi drivers I know are blind. No handicap should stop you from doing any job you want. ;) Slot >I call EB to find out if they have a LWFF, only to find a recording that >says, "The employee at this store is hearing impaired, please dial 1-800- >bla bla bla, then ask the operator to dial 813-blah blah blah." So then, >when I try it, no one even answers! AAAAAAHHHHHHHH DONT PUT A GODDAMN DEAF >PERSON TO ANSWER DAMN PHONES

I'd love to know what I said that was so insensitive. All I am trying to say is that I am frustrated that I cant get through to the store even with all this extra ***that they had to put in. I'd love to see how you feel when you try for 20 minutes to get an answer to a simple question on the phone and get nothing. > They shouldn't let retarded little turd hurlers like you post in this group. > Unbelievable! > > I call EB to find out if they have a LWFF, only to find a recording that > > says, "The employee at this store is hearing impaired, please dial 1-800- > > bla bla bla, then ask the operator to dial 813-blah blah blah." So then, > > when I try it, no one even answers! AAAAAAHHHHHHHH DONT PUT A GODDAMN DEAF > > PERSON TO ANSWER DAMN PHONES

They shouldn't let retarded little turd hurlers like you post in this group. Unbelievable!

So this hearing-impaired person dared to get a job (probably not that easy, if you think about it) and, in doing so, inconvenienced you in your oh-so-important quest for a toy. Methinks you need to make an appointment with the Wizard of Oz, feller, 'cause you don't appear to have a heart at all. I hope your post was just a slipup in the heat of the moment. If it wasn't, then I'd say you get a cookie for being so Pathetic and Cruel.

I sure as *** wouldn't take my frustration out on the poor deaf fellow--oh, I'm sorry, it was the "GODDAMN DEAF PERSON". Show your support for EB's (in my opinion) enlightened hiring practices by asking them to make it work. That way, the people who try to take advantage of it wouldn't get the heat from thoughtless, and evidently quite thick, Neanderthals like "tampa." I'm truly sorry for your precious 20 minutes.

Well I would have done a simple thing. I would have taken my business elsewhere even if I was going to return something for credit to buy something else. If more people voted with their feet then companies would make sure that person that was hearing impaired had a coworker at the store with them. But since we as a people put up with long phone waits automated attendents, and salesman that could not sell a heater to a person stranded on the Artic circle, they now feel its no problem to leave someone in a store alone that cannot answer the phone. Hell no company should let even theri greatest employee in the store alone. Its just asking for the store and the employee to get ripped off by theives and it makes customer service suffer. Personally I never put up with long phone waits, or salesman that when asked tell ohh i thinks its over there. There is always someplace that will answer the phone, and will answer questions. You might pay a bit more, bit its like anything else pick any two items SERVICE, QUALITY or PRICE. Dave > I'd love to know what I said that was so insensitive. All I am trying to say > is that I am frustrated that I cant get through to the store even with all > this extra ***that they had to put in. I'd love to see how you feel when

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> you try for 20 minutes to get an answer to a simple question on the phone > and get nothing. > > They shouldn't let retarded little turd hurlers like you post in this > group. > > Unbelievable! > > > I call EB to find out if they have a LWFF, only to find a recording

that > > > says, "The employee at this store is hearing impaired, please dial > 1-800- > > > bla bla bla, then ask the operator to dial 813-blah blah blah." So then, > > > when I try it, no one even answers! AAAAAAHHHHHHHH DONT PUT A GODDAMN > DEAF > > > PERSON TO ANSWER DAMN PHONES

: I'd love to know what I said that was so insensitive. All I am trying to say : is that I am frustrated that I cant get through to the store even with all : this extra ***that they had to put in. I'd love to see how you feel when : you try for 20 minutes to get an answer to a simple question on the phone : and get nothing. Put your pacifier back in. Let me remind you... perhaps it was the comment about not letting goddamn deaf people answer the phone. If you can't figure out for yourself what was so insensitive about your post... well, then you are insensitive. Life isn't about instant gratification always. Stephen :> They shouldn't let retarded little turd hurlers like you post in this : group. :> Unbelievable! :> > I call EB to find out if they have a LWFF, only to find a recording that :> > says, "The employee at this store is hearing impaired, please dial : 1-800- :> > bla bla bla, then ask the operator to dial 813-blah blah blah." So then, :> > when I try it, no one even answers! AAAAAAHHHHHHHH DONT PUT A GODDAMN : DEAF :> > PERSON TO ANSWER DAMN PHONES :> > :> > :> :>

: Oh, I forgot to add... : Or, you could have been a friggin' "man" and kept trying the second call : that patches you through until you get through to someone. too bad you left it off. It would keep the Birkenstock crowd like me quiet, and also stick a thumb in the eye of the fellow who spit his pacifier out when he couldn't get some instant gratification because a fair-minded company hired a hearing-impaired employee. : Instead you take the time to get online and write an inflammatory post about : people with hearing impairment. If you had spent that time trying to get : through, most probably, you'd have gotten through before the post was done. Agreed. I imagine the call was just being patched through to someone who could transcribe it to a view-phone, and then the original poster might have been surprised at how competently he would have been served. We're all deaf in USENET. : Note to Steve, Before I begin my response, I will agree that the "evil" of driving to the local EB was perhaps exaggerated, compared to the much more disturbing intolerance that started the thread. : Or, you can sit on a computer that during the course of manufacture polluted : the environment with many solvents, and during operation burns electricity : that most likely was produced at least partially through burning of fossil : fuels. Also, the operation of the computers can produce the "bad" kind of : ozone that...blah, blah, blah....the sky is falling.... Actually, the latest wave-solder machines are pretty damn clean. I have the advantage of living in a town where the electricity is generated from a naturally occuring reservoir (no dam) which feeds a small turbine. There are no indigenous fish to this aquifier, due to our altitude (1560m), so I can have a fairly clean conscience about my computer use. :) (note smiley) : Also, seeing that you are on the RAS newsgroup, I will assume you are a : motorsports fan of some sort. If this is true, then unless you watch only : solar powered car racing (or hydrogen), then you too contribute to dumping : that ***into the air. I also doubt you wring your hands every lap saying, : "oh no, there's another gallon in the air." I do like cars. I feel like someone in a therapy group when I try to balance my love of old sports cars (as yet unrequited) with my enviro sensitivity. I think I will continue to feed my passion for autos, born of childhood fantasies, by virtual lapping. R.A.S., and the sims that inspire us, are good things. As for cars that really e*** me now; well, the new Honda hybrid and Lupo 3L amaze me. I'd love to see (and everyone will say I am a heretic) F1 pushed towards certain efficiency targets. I bet we would see some amazing hybrid technology come off the CAD screens really quickly if Ford was suddenly forced to combine brutal acceleration with (relatively) improved fuel efficiency. I also got a kick out of my old University's high placing in the international solar race, but we won't go into the manufacturing process for solar cells. And I did used to wring my hands when the F1 cars were burning rocket fuel instead of pump gas. As I age, I am finding modern F1 more and more irrelevant, to the point that I am more interested in reading about the engineering of the cars than actually tuning in a race. : One lap in a race car puts as much "crap", if not more, into the air as one : of my trips to EB. So I fail to see your point in taking the environmental : high-road in this. As does mowing the lawn, of course. My only point is that every one of these actions involves a choice. I am not naiive enough to believe that we could ever have a Utopia where nobody pollutes. Even if I convince you not to drive to the EB, your neighbour will still get into their SUV to drive to the corner store. However, if you make the choice, as an individual, to not drive to the EB, you make a (very very) small contribution to the solution. I grew up with a North American mentality towards driving, partly because of the distances involved. Since moving to Europe, I recognize that the (small, efficient, used) car that I bought here is a luxury, which I use only when other forms of travel are not practical. I cycle to work, and I drop 2000.- a year on a train pass to get me around the country. In fact, I find my auto use dropping every year, to the point that I will probably sell it. I also find I do a lot more online and telephone commerce now, because in Europe one does pause to actually consider how much it is going to cost (in dollars and environmental impact - Milano just had a car-free day because they are so polluted) to drive to the store. My point was (and I could have stated it in a less combative way) that a telephone call, in this case, would be much more ecologically sound, and that making these small individual choices does make a difference. : Point I was trying to make was that he was being small minded AND whining : instead of being proactive in his attempt to get the information he needed. True. Sorry that I deflected attention from this point. : Unfortunately, I clicked my message out before I was finished with my post. : My apologies. None required, really. You didn't insult me in any way. : Ian Stephen :>: Last time I checked, working at EB entailed much more than answering a :>: phone. If you want to know if they have it, get your a$$ in the car and :>: drive down to EB and ask the person face to face. :> :>Yeah, that's a good idea. Instead of making a 10 cent phone call, hop in :>your car, burn a gallon of fuel, throw some more ***into the air. :> :>Stephen :>

I hate to agree with such a negative post. And it is far from "PC" but having a deaf person answer the phone for a business is stupid. Pure and Simple. I'm not saying that person shouldn't be allowed to make a living, but really, they aren't even answering the phone. Some well trained dog is, and all that typing. Have you seen a dogs paws. Wait I've wandered again. Later, Brit The Artist Formerly known as the Mocker BTGOSS on Gamespy and KALI Seriously tho'. Having the deaf answer phones is stupid. That is one service that they should not be called upon to provide. We really need to step back from this overly PC attitude.

>We really need to >step back from this overly PC attitude. Amen ~daxe -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==---------- http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World! ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----

Thank Christ we live in 2000 and not 1936!! MS

"PC?"--well, that kind of cuts off diaogue, doesn't it? Methinks the term PC gets tossed around a bit too much. Try substituting "thoughtfulness" once in while. But thanks for telling us what "we" need to do, Moses (btgoss). --DK

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> >We really need to > >step back from this overly PC attitude. > Amen > ~daxe > -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News

==---------- > http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World! > ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----

Don't you understand that it's politically incorrect to tell the truth nowadays, especially when you've got a wonderful administration who feels our pain? Quadrapalegic surgeons, blind racing drivers, stone deaf musicians, armless pro basketball players? Why not? Who are we to scoff? Reality is for the insensitive; not the warm, caring self-righteous (and oh so eloquent) folks who have been trying desperately to show you the One True Way.

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> I'd love to know what I said that was so insensitive. All I am trying to say > is that I am frustrated that I cant get through to the store even with all > this extra ***that they had to put in. I'd love to see how you feel when > you try for 20 minutes to get an answer to a simple question on the phone > and get nothing. > > They shouldn't let retarded little turd hurlers like you post in this > group. > > Unbelievable! > > > I call EB to find out if they have a LWFF, only to find a recording that > > > says, "The employee at this store is hearing impaired, please dial > 1-800- > > > bla bla bla, then ask the operator to dial 813-blah blah blah." So then, > > > when I try it, no one even answers! AAAAAAHHHHHHHH DONT PUT A GODDAMN > DEAF > > > PERSON TO ANSWER DAMN PHONES

-- Bob Curtin Worcester Area Strategy & Tactics Exchange http://www.tiac.net/users/ten10ths/ "If God had intended men to join the Army he would have given us green, baggy skin"

Maybe you would feel differently if you were the deaf, blind or otherwise disabled person. This isn't about political correctness. Did you ever think maybe the deaf person answering the phone was busy helping others in some way just as if a non-disabled person would be? Maybe its a store policy to serve the customers in the store before answering the phone. In that case, vent towards the store policy and not the disabled person. I guess in your view all disabled individuals should just be locked in a home because they are obviously useless right? Again, its not about political correctness... its about ignorance. Scott PA-Scott PowerSims.com

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> Don't you understand that it's politically incorrect to tell the truth nowadays, > especially when you've got a wonderful administration who feels our pain? > Quadrapalegic surgeons, blind racing drivers, stone deaf musicians, armless pro > basketball players? Why not? Who are we to scoff? Reality is for the > insensitive; not the warm, caring self-righteous (and oh so eloquent) folks who > have been trying desperately to show you the One True Way. > > I'd love to know what I said that was so insensitive. All I am trying to say > > is that I am frustrated that I cant get through to the store even with all > > this extra ***that they had to put in. I'd love to see how you feel when > > you try for 20 minutes to get an answer to a simple question on the phone > > and get nothing. > > > They shouldn't let retarded little turd hurlers like you post in this > > group. > > > Unbelievable! > > > > I call EB to find out if they have a LWFF, only to find a recording that > > > > says, "The employee at this store is hearing impaired, please dial > > 1-800- > > > > bla bla bla, then ask the operator to dial 813-blah blah blah." So then, > > > > when I try it, no one even answers! AAAAAAHHHHHHHH DONT PUT A GODDAMN > > DEAF > > > > PERSON TO ANSWER DAMN PHONES > -- > Bob Curtin > Worcester Area Strategy & Tactics Exchange > http://www.tiac.net/users/ten10ths/ > "If God had intended men to join the Army he would have given us green, baggy > skin"

-- Scott B. Husted ICQ# 4395450

Right effin' on, Scott. And just to extend that analysis, we have in our store a stock clerk who escaped with his family from the fighting in Kosovo. He's trying very hard to learn English, so right now he's a stock clerk. People often ask him questions in the aisle, and he politely refers them, as best he can, to someone who can understand and answer his questions. We had a*** customer in the "tampax"- Bob Curtin mold who came to the front counter and complained "There's some jerk back there who doesn't speak English!"... we showed him the door. If I call a store or service and they have a hearing-impaired employee, my first thought is "now *there's* a responsible business, helping people to make their own way in life with dignity," NOT "how does this inconvenience ME" -- I'm no saint, WAAAAY past Liberal, and several light years from PC, but I *do* believe we ARE our brothers' keepers, and we ARE responsible for helping those who need help. I think we're a vanishing species, Scott... BB > Again, its not about political correctness... its about ignorance. > Scott > PA-Scott > PowerSims.com

Thank You

: If I call a store or service and they have a hearing-impaired employee, : my first thought is "now *there's* a responsible business, helping : people to make their own way in life with dignity," NOT "how does this : inconvenience ME" -- I'm no saint, WAAAAY past Liberal, and several : light years from PC, but I *do* believe we ARE our brothers' keepers, : and we ARE responsible for helping those who need help. And if I get shunted to a phone service that is acting as a go-between, and it doesn't perform perfectly, I think "at least someone is trying to put a system together". If we don't support this kind of technology and accesibilty work in its infancy, and put up with some of its bugs, then the system never has a chance to grow and improve. We're not far off from reliable speech-to-text conversion, and vice-versa, that will make your telephone conversation with a hearing impaired person no different than any other. Stephen

Tampa, I still think you're an ***. Open your mind. Andre On Tue, 18 Jan 2000 14:55:14 -0500, "tampa"

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>Thank You >> I happen to be "hearing impaired", having suffered from industrial >deafness >> caused by working conditions during my apprenticeship years. To this day >I >> have a significant loss of hearing at the low and high frenquency ends of >> the scale and also suffer from severe tinninitus. >> However, I can also read through the passion behind this fellow's outburst >> and understand why he was so annoyed in the first place. On the face of >it, >> people, the fact that a "hearing-impaired" chap has been give a job that >> requires telephone answering is definitely ironic and the stuff of which >> jokes are made! :-) >> (Richard Pryor and Gene Wilder made a very funny movie many years ago >about >> a deaf guy and a blind guy......the gags were hilarious! Here in >Australia >> there is a racing yacht called "Out of Sight, Out of Mind". It's owned by >a >> blind bloke and his psychiatrist pal!) >> So don't pillory the poor guy....he was only annoyed by the circumstances. >> I'm sure he is not as *** as what you are making him out to be.

This is probably the best sentence I have read today. Very well put. -- Olav K. Malmin remove spam when replying

Barton and Steve, Let me also say I have had numerous times when I have called to place an order at JC Penney and could not understand the "Spanglish" the person was speaking. (Im not picking on them, but sometimes its funny what my hearing 'hears' them saying <G>). I have on one occasion politely asked to speak to someone else because I am having a hard time understanding them. I did not do it to be mean or cruel, just simply because I could not understand them. One of my political pet peeves is the requirement to speak english... but we wont get into that. My point is Im not going to slam someone and throw a fit because someone is trying to do their job. I have been on the other end of it. Is putting someone who doesn't speak English very well on the telephone a good business move? I don't know, maybe not. But I am not going to go on a rampant tirade over it. Believe me... I have very little patience. Ask my wife, she wont take me to the grocery store anymore and god forbid we go to the mall <VBG> I have a 'black list' of stores i will not shop at because I don't like their service. I will not spend a nickel at the "Bon-Ton" because every time I go it seems like I have to hunt someone down to take my money. So to me, that means they must not want my business very much. I do not throw a fit, I simply quit shopping there. AND.. have you ever noticed if you go to a Circuit City or a Best Buy and want help, there is never anyone around but if you are there just to browse the sales people are on you like white on rice?? OK.. I digress <VBG> Besides, isnt that what the internet is for?? =) I just think if someone with a disability is trying to be a productive citizen and work for a living, by all means we should be supportive of that. Scott PA-Scott PowerSims.com -- Scott B. Husted ICQ# 4395450

So, instead of driving somewhere to buy that item you want, you phone them up or buy it on the net, then instead of you driving out in your (small, efficient, used) car to pick it up, you have it delivered in a dirty big lorry !!! ;) Sorry, couldn't resist :) -- Ian Parker UKGPL League http://members.xoom.com/ukgpl ==

>> I just think if someone with a disability is trying to be a productive >> citizen and work for a living, by all means we should be supportive of that. >This is probably the best sentence I have read today. Very well put. While I agree with this sentiment, I think that expecting disabled people to get jobs consistent with their abilities is not asking too much nor is it being ignorant. I am a severe asthmatic. I have had 4 respiratory and 2 cardiac arrests related to asthma. I could easily qualify for disability if I cared to go that route, but I don't. Instead, I own a very successful courier business where I can earn a good living using the abilities I do have (driving) without expecting other people to accommodate ME trying to perform tasks which I cannot do well (or at all). I suppose if I wanted to be a bike messenger instead it would be OK that it would take me a long time to deliver documents or that I would hold up traffic as I huffed and puffed along? I personally don't think so. I don't think it would be OK to hold up everyone else simply because I *wanted* to do something that I didn't have the ability to do. People have a right to expect businesses and professional people to do their jobs efficiently and effectively. I, too, am glad this person wants to work and not be burdensome on society, but IMHO they should find a job they are able to perform using abilities they possess and leave jobs requiring abilities they do not have to people who do have those abilities. Every time I express an opinion in here someone calls me a name or tells me I'm an idiot, so go right ahead. I have a disability and I don't expect the rest of the world to change to accommodate me. My disability is my own problem, not everyone else's, so they shouldn't have to deal with it if it is going to complicate or slow down their lives. ~daxe -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==---------- http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World! ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----

> Maybe you would feel differently if you were the deaf, blind or otherwise disabled > person. I'm not deaf or blind, but I was born with a birth defect serious enough to make my childhood a living hell of multiple surgeries, social isolation and constant ridicule. It still has a profound affect on how people perceive me, and still keeps me from doing a lot of things that "normal" people do. Do I know what it's like to be treated like a pariah? You bet I do. But it is not a reason, however, to claim victimhood. The hell it isn't. If it were a "normal" person Tampa was calling names, you would have either ignored him, or agreed with him, or told him to shut up and quit whining, but you wouldn't have climbed all over him (and me) like a cheap suit. I grant you that Tampa was not the most tactful person in the world, to say the least, but he's got every right to voice his opinion. He was pissed about staying on the phone for 20 minutes, and rightfully so. The only reason he was demonized as an "***" and "turd-hurler" is because there was a disabled person involved and the party line is to *** over the messenger if any of the "historically persecuted" is criticized in any way. You say you want the "disabled" or the "minorities" or whatever the put-upon-du-jour is, to be treated like everyone else, but then when they are, you moan like you're gutshot. You, of course, mean treat them like everyone else except when it comes to criticism. Then the complainer is a racist or a hard-hearted turd-hurler or a misogenist or whatever the scapegoat-du-jour is. I didn't think about it at all. I don't care. That wasn't the subject of my post. Wrong. How did you arrive at that conclusion? I have no problem with anyone taking any job for which they're qualified and that they can get. My problem is that now it's politically incorrect to complain about the performance of certain groups. Treat a disabled person like anyone else and you're a ***. Well, Scott, how would you know? You just seem to follow the party line. You call treating everyone equally, "ignorant." I get the impression that you think that I should overlook incompetence if the incompetent is disabled. I won't. I've seen (and managed) too many disabled workers whose excellence at their job is beyond reproach and who'd spit in your face for thinking you have to make excuses for them. -- Bob Curtin Worcester Area Strategy & Tactics Exchange http://www.tiac.net/users/ten10ths/ "If God had intended men to join the Army he would have given us green, baggy skin"

Finally, somebody gets it. A man with a brain has posted here.

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> While I agree with this sentiment, I think that expecting disabled people to > get jobs consistent with their abilities is not asking too much nor is it > being ignorant. > I am a severe asthmatic. I have had 4 respiratory and 2 cardiac arrests > related to asthma. I could easily qualify for disability if I cared to go > that route, but I don't. Instead, I own a very successful courier business > where I can earn a good living using the abilities I do have (driving) > without expecting other people to accommodate ME trying to perform tasks > which I cannot do well (or at all). I suppose if I wanted to be a bike > messenger instead it would be OK that it would take me a long time to > deliver documents or that I would hold up traffic as I huffed and puffed > along? I personally don't think so. I don't think it would be OK to hold > up everyone else simply because I *wanted* to do something that I didn't > have the ability to do. People have a right to expect businesses and > professional people to do their jobs efficiently and effectively. > I, too, am glad this person wants to work and not be burdensome on society, > but IMHO they should find a job they are able to perform using abilities > they possess and leave jobs requiring abilities they do not have to people > who do have those abilities. > Every time I express an opinion in here someone calls me a name or tells me > I'm an idiot, so go right ahead. I have a disability and I don't expect the > rest of the world to change to accommodate me. My disability is my own > problem, not everyone else's, so they shouldn't have to deal with it if it > is going to complicate or slow down their lives. > ~daxe > -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==---------- > http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World! > ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----

-- Bob Curtin Worcester Area Strategy & Tactics Exchange http://www.tiac.net/users/ten10ths/ "If God had intended men to join the Army he would have given us green, baggy skin"

Damn, I have about 80% hearing loss for nearly all of my life and I think that's the most ridiculous shit I've ever heard of.. OTOH, if the guy wants to overshadow Burt Bacharach under his own power and free will, then more power to him. Rick > I call EB to find out if they have a LWFF, only to find a recording that > says, "The employee at this store is hearing impaired, please dial 1-800- > bla bla bla, then ask the operator to dial 813-blah blah blah." So then, > when I try it, no one even answers! AAAAAAHHHHHHHH DONT PUT A GODDAMN DEAF > PERSON TO ANSWER DAMN PHONES

We need to take the bigoted ***s like you two out to be shot. I'll add my own amen to that. -Tim

Damn! Did someone actually use the term "turd-hurler" in here? I LOVE that phrase! BB >The only reason he was demonized as an "***" and "turd-hurler"

victimhood. Bob, understood. BUT... if you were doing a job you may or may not be qualified to do due to your disability, would you appreciate it if someone who had to wait 20 minutes said, Pardon the language, "God Damn Invalid!" or "Don't put a God damn invalid in that position!". If so, then you are different than me. No, I do not believe someone with a handicap is capable of doing all jobs. Thats naive. However, at the same time, without know the circumstances, I personally find it sad that someone would verbally insult someone with a disability because he had to wait 20 minutes without an answer. Even IF that were true, it wouldn't be about political correctness. It would be about tact and decency. There is a HUGE difference. Yep, and we have the right to criticize him for it. Agreed, I am an impatient person by nature. I admit it. way. So its wrong to stand up for someone who was insulted by someone else? Actually, thats irrelevant because this person had a job to do and we do not know the circumstance. IF the phone was answered on 2 rings and he had talked to this individual through the phone system (Im not sure what they call those typing phone machines for the deaf), would he still be have thought the same of this person having that position? I highly doubt it! put-upon-du-jour is, to be gutshot. No, when Im insulted for not doing my job its insulting for me not doing my job. Not because Im a "Goddamn hearing impaired" person. If that person was not doing their job.. .thats one thing. However, he does not know what that person was doing or what the circumstances were. I guess Im a crying heart liberal (even though Im a conservative Republican) because I think its unfair to attack a "Goddamn hearing impaired" individual without know the circumstances of why that person was unable to answer the phone. my post. Of course you didn't, that would have changed the circumstances. How do you KNOW that person did not perform their duty? Maybe they didnt, but maybe he/she went to the bathroom and another employee didnt pick up the phone. Does that make the deaf person unable to perform the job? Maybe he/she was on break. Does that make the deaf person unable to perform the job? I don't think so. I think this was a situation of a rush to judgement on someone else and showed very little tact at all for another person. Wrong. But if their are 3 people working and nobody answers the phone, do you automatically fire the deaf person because its obvious they cant do their job regardles if the other 2 didnt answer it either? -- Scott B. Husted "PA-Scott" COO MMMGI ICQ# 4395450 http://www.Husted.cc [link lost in import] [link lost in import] [link lost in import]

: I, too, am glad this person wants to work and not be burdensome on society, : but IMHO they should find a job they are able to perform using abilities : they possess and leave jobs requiring abilities they do not have to people : who do have those abilities. I am sure that 95% of the time this person has no problem doing their job. Face-to-face you might not even know about their hearing impairment because they have learned to compensate, and probably do not "force" their disability on you by requiring you to use sign language, for example, but instead lip-read and speak. 5% of the time, the phone system they rely on breaks down, and then one notices. I wear glasses. I can't read things very well without them. sometimes I forget them in my office, and then others are inconvenienced if I have to ask what is on the white-board, or if I have to run back down the hall to get them. Because I can't guarantee that I will never cause this inconvenience, should I quit my engineering job and do something more appropriate that never requires me to wear my glasses? Stephen

: So, instead of driving somewhere to buy that item you want, you phone them : up or buy it on the net, then instead of you driving out in your (small, : efficient, used) car to pick it up, you have it delivered in a dirty big : lorry !!! ;) : Sorry, couldn't resist :) No, actually all the post in our little town is deliverd by a friendly man on foot. He *assures* me that he personally picks up every package on foot, even if he has to walk 300km through blinding snow and rain to get it. :) Point taken, and it is possible to see-saw back and forth forever on this. To counter your point, though, all the post in Switzerland (where I am) is delivered via electric train from hub to hub, then finally by diesel truck. Based on volume, the emissions generated to deliver my package are lower through the post than if I go get it myself in my (small, efficient, used :) car. Stephen

: Barton and Steve, : Let me also say I have had numerous times when I have called to place an order : at JC Penney and could not understand the "Spanglish" the person was speaking. : (Im not picking on them, but sometimes its funny what my hearing 'hears' them : saying <G>). I have on one occasion politely asked to speak to someone else : because I am having a hard time understanding them. I did not do it to be : mean or cruel, just simply because I could not understand them. One of my After spending three years in Switzerland, I am *very* understanding of people who have not completely mastered the language of the country. I *still* have problems on the telephone if I have to have a technical conversation with someone who has a very heavy Swiss-German dialect. S.

>I am sure that 95% of the time this person has no problem doing their >job. Face-to-face you might not even know about their hearing impairment >because they have learned to compensate, and probably do not "force" their >disability on you by requiring you to use sign language, for example, but >instead lip-read and speak. I interact in medical settings all day and encounter plenty of deaf nurses and phlebotomists who can lip read effectively. Most of them do a pretty good job of speaking intelligibly, too. They cannot, however, talk on the phone. That's why they weren't hired to work on the switchboard. In the paragraph above, you cite a figure of 95% for effectiveness in their job. That's nice, but there are people who are 100% effective and they are preferable as employees, all other things being equal. I'm sure there is a job for which the hearing-impaired person is 100% effective and that is the job they should have. No matter if the phone system is up 100% or 0% of the time, the interaction on the phone is convoluted and more difficult than a phone conversation with someone who can hear. I wear glasses, too, by the way. Interesting question. The obvious answer is no. The difference between the two is that having eyesight correctable with lenses is not an immutable condition that affects your interaction with the world if you just remember your glasses. A deaf person who is expected to answer the phone can never hear the phone. Having a TTY terminal handy does not make them able to answer the phone with the same timeliness that a hearing person can, whereas you donning your glasses makes your eyesight just as good as a person without your condition. I'll throw another log on this fire. About 3 days after I bought my current automobile I was sitting in the parking lot of a supermarket eating my lunch and reading. Suddenly, I hear a *BANG* and look up to see the person collecting shopping carts in the parking lot had shoved a string of carts into the side of my car. It's black and has no side impact strips (my car), so I suddenly have a nice big dent in the side of my new car courtesy of this person. I watched as he wrestled the carts away and bumped into another car on the way to the little cart corral. I also noticed the person was developmentally disabled. I imagine he does a great job 95% of the time, but the other 5% of the time he shoves the carts into the sides of people's cars. Should I just think nice thoughts about how the supermarket did society a favor by hiring this guy or should I be pissed that they hired someone without enough mental wherewithall not to destroy people's cars? He does a great job 95% of the time afterall, right? ~daxe -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==---------- http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World! ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----

: this person. I watched as he wrestled the carts away and bumped into : another car on the way to the little cart corral. I also noticed the person : was developmentally disabled. I imagine he does a great job 95% of the : time, but the other 5% of the time he shoves the carts into the sides of : people's cars. Should I just think nice thoughts about how the supermarket : did society a favor by hiring this guy or should I be pissed that they hired : someone without enough mental wherewithall not to destroy people's cars? He : does a great job 95% of the time afterall, right? The correct answer is the former. Shit happens. Think nice thoughts about the company helping this guy out (c'mon, if you're not going to let someone corral grocery carts, what *are* you going to let someone do?) and then get on the phone to your insurance company. Stephen

The "correct answer" is that a person should be hired for their abilities, not for their lack of them. -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- > : this person. I watched as he wrestled the carts away and bumped into > : another car on the way to the little cart corral. I also noticed the person > : was developmentally disabled. I imagine he does a great job 95% of the > : time, but the other 5% of the time he shoves the carts into the sides of > : people's cars. Should I just think nice thoughts about how the supermarket > : did society a favor by hiring this guy or should I be pissed that they hired > : someone without enough mental wherewithall not to destroy people's cars? He > : does a great job 95% of the time afterall, right? > The correct answer is the former. Shit happens. Think nice thoughts > about the company helping this guy out (c'mon, if you're not going to let > someone corral grocery carts, what *are* you going to let someone do?) and > then get on the phone to your insurance company. > Stephen -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==---------- http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World! ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----

Don't you know it's illegal to shoot someone? Or: with this response you make a total idiot out of yourself. That would normally be funny, but in this case, you seem pretty dangerous. You should get some proffesional help soon, if you have an urge to shoot people. Thankfully that's none of my concern, as your message screams "I'm a dumb American" all over the place, and that's far away from me.

I fully agree. I find it very insulting to the hearing-impaired emplyee that they put him in a position where his handicap is so obvious. They could have found a job for him where his handicap is no problem, (like email-helpdesk, whetever), thereby removing BOTH the frustration of the customer, and of the employee himself. I'm very glad that you, as "hearing impaired" person, give your view on this subject in such an honest statement.

>The correct answer is the former. Shit happens. Think nice thoughts >about the company helping this guy out (c'mon, if you're not going to let >someone corral grocery carts, what *are* you going to let someone do?) and >then get on the phone to your insurance company. So my having to go through the hassle of dealing with my insurance company and getting my car repaired is OK as long as this fellow has a job? I don't think so. If it was an honest mistake, then the 'sh*t happens' applies, but if it's based on the fact that the person essentially doesn't know what they are doing, then things are a little different in my view. Don't think for a second that the company hired the guy out of the goodness of their hearts, either. I'm sure this person will work for the absolute minimum wage without complaining about it and the little tax break the company gets for hiring a disabled person probably helps, too. The guy will probably work there until the store gets fed up with irate customers complaining about having their cars dented (which is what I did) or being on the paying end of suits from insurance companies at which time they will fire the guy because he had no business doing that job in the first place. He'd be fine in a job like, say, collapsing boxes in the storeroom or somewhere else where the company who hired him takes the risk for his errors, rather than the public. ~daxe -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==---------- http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World! ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----

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> I'll throw another log on this fire. About 3 days after I bought my current > automobile I was sitting in the parking lot of a supermarket eating my lunch > and reading. Suddenly, I hear a *BANG* and look up to see the person > collecting shopping carts in the parking lot had shoved a string of carts > into the side of my car. It's black and has no side impact strips (my car), > so I suddenly have a nice big dent in the side of my new car courtesy of > this person. I watched as he wrestled the carts away and bumped into > another car on the way to the little cart corral. I also noticed the person > was developmentally disabled. I imagine he does a great job 95% of the > time, but the other 5% of the time he shoves the carts into the sides of > people's cars. Should I just think nice thoughts about how the supermarket > did society a favor by hiring this guy or should I be pissed that they hired > someone without enough mental wherewithall not to destroy people's cars? He > does a great job 95% of the time afterall, right? > ~daxe

My God, what a selfish outlook! Just turn it in as a "parking lot incident". I agree that the place is doing well to hire such folk. Don't put his job in jeopardy. If the whole situation is unacceptable, just don't shop there. I think most people are compassionate enough to understand. I used to live with a deaf family about 20 years ago. Learned sign language right quick. Believe me, they understand very well the Neanderthals that exist in the hearing world. And some are very capable of talking on the phone, those who get some benefit from hearing aids. They are still not up to our level many times, but can certainly accomplish their tasks. You'll find that a little understanding can go a long way. You never know when you or one of yours is in the same boat, observing the world's cruel attitudes towards *YOU*. -- //Chuck Kandler #70 //ChuckK on Won.net & WinVROC //K&S Racing http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/thepits/195 //The box said "Windows 0x5h or better", so I installed LINUX!

MAy you have a stroke or something tonight and end up severely disabled. It would serve an *** like you right. -Tim

Geez you guys are being too *** this fellow. What he is saying is essentially right. It is great that a company will give a mentally handicapped person a job. However, it is not fair to make other people suffer in the process. All he is pointing out is the fact that the company should have assigned this person a position that would keep him out of situations where he could cause harm, and that is exactly what they should have done. Someone denting your car might not be a big deal to you, but it certainly is to me. No matter how good the body shop that repairs the damage is, it will never be the same. Whether the person who does it is handicapped or not makes no difference. I could have accepted the accident, if in fact that's what is was, an accident. But from what this fellow said, this could AND should have been prevented. You guys need to think reasonably and logically instead of worrying whether or not you're being 100% politically correct. If I deserve a stroke for feeling this way then so be it.

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>>The guy will probably work there until the store gets fed up with irate >>customers complaining about having their cars dented (which is what I did) >>or being on the paying end of suits from insurance companies at which time >>they will fire the guy because he had no business doing that job in the >>first place. He'd be fine in a job like, say, collapsing boxes in the >>storeroom or somewhere else where the company who hired him takes the risk >>for his errors, rather than the public. > MAy you have a stroke or something tonight and end up severely >disabled. It would serve an *** like you right. > -Tim

You've definitely chosen the wrong handle. You're not enigmatic at all. It's very plain you're a superficial, knee-jerk reactionary, drooling moron. Why don't you just change your name to "The Foolish One" > MAy you have a stroke or something tonight and end up severely > disabled. It would serve an *** like you right. > -Tim -- Bob Curtin Worcester Area Strategy & Tactics Exchange http://www.tiac.net/users/ten10ths/ "If God had intended men to join the Army he would have given us green, baggy skin"

Augh! I seem to be "winning impaired" in GPL so you guys take it easy on me, ok? (Just trying to blend some sim stuff back into this thread). ;) Slot >>I call EB to find out if they have a LWFF, only to find a recording that >>says, "The employee at this store is hearing impaired, please dial 1-800- >>bla bla bla, then ask the operator to dial 813-blah blah blah." So then, >>when I try it, no one even answers! AAAAAAHHHHHHHH DONT PUT A GODDAMN DEAF >>PERSON TO ANSWER DAMN PHONES

I saw nothing in that post which (a) accepted mediocrity or, (b) was not "honest and equal." Nice, though, to see that we have someone in our list who knows just exactly what "the handicapped" (as if they formed some sort of monolithic entity) desired. DK, now vacating this thread for good > It is this mentality that breeds mediocrity and society's acceptance of it.

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> Get off your politically-correct soapbox and be honest and equal in your > approach to the handicapped. That is all they ask. > -- > Regards, > Bruce Kennewell, > Canberra, Australia. > --------------------------- > > My God, what a selfish outlook! Just turn it in as a "parking lot > > incident". I agree that the place is doing well to hire such folk. > > Don't put his job in jeopardy. If the whole situation is unacceptable, > > just don't shop there. I think most people are compassionate enough to > > understand. > -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News

==---------- > http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World! > ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----

>>Don't put his job in jeopardy. Perhaps this is at the root of this disagreement. I didn't push a line of shopping carts into the side of my car (and another while I watched), he did. The problem started with this person's actions, not mine. I didn't put his job in jeopardy, he did. If a person can't even be expected to be accountable for their actions, that is further reason to question their suitability to do a given job, disabled or not. ~daxe -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==---------- http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World! ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----

> MAy you have a stroke or something tonight and end up severely >disabled. It would serve an *** like you right. Instead of just calling me names, why don't you take a stab at articulating exactly what it is that I am saying which is fundamentally wrong or bigoted? If you were reading along the entire time, you would know that I do have a condition that I could easily treat as a disability. I go out of my way to NOT make it anyone else's problem. It escapes me how I get to being selfish or bigoted by expecting other people to manage their own problems, too. ~daxe -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==---------- http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World! ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----

>You'd suggest I >would better serve this handicapped gentleman by entering the store & >raving like a lunatic at his employer, demanding his job? Baloney! I know this wasn't directed at me, but I did mention bringing the shopping cart incident to the store's attention, so I thought I might follow up on that. I calmly went in to the service desk and asked to speak to the manager. When the manager appeared, I said, "I just wanted to let you know that the person you have collecting shopping carts outside dented my car and I saw him run into another car the same way. I don't want any compensation or anything, but you might want to reevaluate letting him do that job." I really hope the manager didn't drag the guy aside and tell him he was fired, but instead found something else for him to do that didn't have the same potential to cause problems for the customers, the store and the employee. ~daxe -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==---------- http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World! ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----

It is this mentality that breeds mediocrity and society's acceptance of it. Get off your politically-correct soapbox and be honest and equal in your approach to the handicapped. That is all they ask. -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==---------- http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World! ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----

And you'll give him a job, right? -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==---------- http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World! ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----

> It is this mentality that breeds mediocrity and society's acceptance of it. > Get off your politically-correct soapbox and be honest and equal in your > approach to the handicapped. That is all they ask. Mediocrity? PC Soapbox?? All I ask is to not try & get someone fired intentionally because they don't meet others' ways of perfection. Everybody needs to make a living. Geeez! I suppose you've never had a "mediocre" moment in your line of employment? Under your guidelines, it's unacceptable & you should be terminated right then & there. No. I don't "accept mediocrity". I accept the fact that *EVERYONE*, myself included, has shortcomings. I accept my fellow man's shortcomings, as I hope they will accept (or at least overlook) mine. You'd suggest I would better serve this handicapped gentleman by entering the store & raving like a lunatic at his employer, demanding his job? Baloney! -- //Chuck Kandler #70 //ChuckK on Won.net & WinVROC //K&S Racing http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/thepits/195 //The box said "Windows 0x5h or better", so I installed LINUX!

Yikes. Of course the term "we" was meant in a very general sense. However at the risk of being marked for death again, I have to disagree. Thankfully other voices in this thread have added more to the discussion. Label me with any negative tag you like, but that will not change the fact that I feel that a hearing impaired person is not the best choice for phone answering duty. You certainly wouldn't want a visually impaired air traffic controller. Each person should be given the right work, within the abilities they have. Later, Brit

I have no jobs to give anyone, actually. -Tim

> Nice, though, to see that we have someone in our list who knows just exactly > what "the handicapped" (as if they formed some sort of monolithic entity) > desired. LOL! If that's how it came off, then my apologies. I was just giving some insight that I'd gained some years back. However I didn't then, don't now, & most likely never will represent fully the view of anyone else besides myself. ;-)) -- //Chuck Kandler #70 //ChuckK on Won.net & WinVROC //K&S Racing http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/thepits/195 //The box said "Windows 0x5h or better", so I installed LINUX!

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> >You'd suggest I > >would better serve this handicapped gentleman by entering the store & > >raving like a lunatic at his employer, demanding his job? Baloney! > I know this wasn't directed at me, but I did mention bringing the shopping > cart incident to the store's attention, so I thought I might follow up on > that.

No, sir. It wasn't aimed at you. Although I did *borrow* from you & added exaggeration in order to make my point. ;-) I hope the manager didn't do that either, although it's quite likely that could be the result. Don't get me wrong. I wouldn't exactly do backflips in glee over getting my car dented. But I wouldn't want that to cause such a person to lose their job either. It'll be *much* harder for him to replace a job than for skilled workers such as ourselves. -- //Chuck Kandler #70 //ChuckK on Won.net & WinVROC //K&S Racing http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/thepits/195 //The box said "Windows 0x5h or better", so I installed LINUX!

writes: Out of curiousity, how long DID it take to learn sign language? I've seen it on TV and occasionally in person, and I admit I'd have NO CLUE how to do it. It doesn't seem like I'd EVER be able to learn sing language, although I'm intrigued... Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

I don't care HOW much you disagree with someone. Wishing that type of fate on him doesn't make you any better than you accuse HIM of being... -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Keep in mind now, you're in America. The land of free speech as long as your not talking about minorities. God forbid that John Rocker speak his mind. Even presidential candidates now say, "I don't know him and I don't want to!", while debating issues. What bullshit. Black people can say anything they like about whites and there's no problem but god forbid any white person say anything about blacks. There's gonna be hell to pay. The whole F*&$$n world's full of liberals and that's why this thread is the biggest in the newsgroup over NOTHING. I got a good laugh out of the original post. I spent 4 hours today working at a company of nothing BUT handicapped persons and I have nothing bad to say about any of them. I just can't believe that there's 65 reply posts to a message from the 17th about such horseshit. >I'd love to know what I said that was so insensitive. All I am trying to say

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>is that I am frustrated that I cant get through to the store even with all >this extra ***that they had to put in. I'd love to see how you feel when >you try for 20 minutes to get an answer to a simple question on the phone >and get nothing. >> They shouldn't let retarded little turd hurlers like you post in this >group. >> Unbelievable! >> > I call EB to find out if they have a LWFF, only to find a recording

that >> > says, "The employee at this store is hearing impaired, please dial >1-800- >> > bla bla bla, then ask the operator to dial 813-blah blah blah." So then, >> > when I try it, no one even answers! AAAAAAHHHHHHHH DONT PUT A GODDAMN >DEAF >> > PERSON TO ANSWER DAMN PHONES

So it would be bad for him to be handicapped, but it's right for him to wish handicapped people weren't around to "inconvenience" him? -Tim

Thanks David. 'Bye. -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- > I saw nothing in that post which (a) accepted mediocrity or, (b) was not > "honest and equal." > Nice, though, to see that we have someone in our list who knows just exactly > what "the handicapped" (as if they formed some sort of monolithic entity) > desired. > DK, > now vacating this thread for good > > It is this mentality that breeds mediocrity and society's acceptance of > it. > > Get off your politically-correct soapbox and be honest and equal in your > > approach to the handicapped. That is all they ask. > > -- > > Regards, > > Bruce Kennewell, > > Canberra, Australia. > > --------------------------- > > > My God, what a selfish outlook! Just turn it in as a "parking lot > > > incident". I agree that the place is doing well to hire such folk. > > > Don't put his job in jeopardy. If the whole situation is unacceptable, > > > just don't shop there. I think most people are compassionate enough to > > > understand. > > -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News > ==---------- > > http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World! > > ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers > ==----- -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==---------- http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World! ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----

No one stopped you from spewing forth your racist, prejudiced, biggoted tripe. Now go crawl back into your hole. -Tim

That is not what I said and if you read it again then perhaps you might get the message. If not, then so be it. -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==---------- http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World! ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----

I thought not. -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==---------- http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World! ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----

> So it would be bad for him to be handicapped, but it's right for him to >wish handicapped people weren't around to "inconvenience" him? I never said I wished they weren't around. I said I wished they would get jobs they could do well instead of jobs they can't do well. The same is true of anyone, disabled or not. ~daxe -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==---------- http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World! ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----

: You guys need to think reasonably and logically instead of worrying whether : or not you're being 100% politically correct. If I deserve a stroke for : feeling this way then so be it. First off, you certainly don't deserve a stroke. You are entitled to your opinions. It gets tiresome to have any sort of socialist thought labelled with the PC tag. this is not about political correctness, and "PC" is a convenient phrase people throw around to devalue socially minded attitudes. I'm pulling out of this discussion now. After all, it's not really r.a.s. material, and we seem to have two distinct camps, so it's just going to go back and forth ad nauseum. Stephen

Enough of this crap,already. It doesn't belong here.

> Out of curiousity, how long DID it take to learn sign language? I've seen it > on TV and occasionally in person, and I admit I'd have NO CLUE how to do it. > It doesn't seem like I'd EVER be able to learn sing language, although I'm > intrigued... > Eldred Training the hands really doesn't take much time at all. You can easily learn the alphabet in under a week. Then you can be taught a "short sign" or two a day & retain it. But training the hands is the easy part. For the majority, they've spoken like this all their lives and are quite fast at it. THAT'S the hard part. Training the eyes to be able to read what they're saying as fast as they're saying it. Early on, many times I'd have to request them to slow down. Kinda felt like a burden to them but the longer you do it the better you become. Just like learning any new language. =-) -- //Chuck Kandler #70 //ChuckK on Won.net & WinVROC //K&S Racing http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/thepits/195 //The box said "Windows 0x5h or better", so I installed LINUX!

: Enough of this crap,already. It doesn't belong here. I never understand this reaction. R.A.S. isn't a moderated group. If I go to a party with all of my cycling friends, 90% of the talk is about our cycling races, group rides, training schedules etc. 10% of the talk is about things unrelated to cycling. If I don't want to listen to a conversation about my cycling friend's holiday in Greece, I find a different cycling friend to talk to. But if I did want to hear about a holidy in Greece, I would much rather hear about it from my cycling friend, who I know something about, than to go find a party for people who have visited Greece recently. With threaded newsreaders and fast modems, the inconvenience caused by one or two off-topic threads is negligible. These threads pop up, flare for a while, the die down. A certain number of us enjoy them, so what's the harm? I learned a little bit more about Bruce K., for example, and his views, Scott from Powersims etc. and this makes their subsequent on-topic posts a little more personal and interesting. R.A.S. is a community of people who are not necessarily like-minded, but do share a passion for sims. Personally, I don't mind if some discussion other than sims pops up from time to time, but that's just my opinion. Stephen

Get real Ray. What kind of moron company would have people who can't hear answering the phone? > Oh, I forgot to add... > Or, you could have been a friggin' "man" and kept trying the second call > that patches you through until you get through to someone. > Instead you take the time to get online and write an inflammatory post about > people with hearing impairment. If you had spent that time trying to get > through, most probably, you'd have gotten through before the post was done. > Note to Steve, > Or, you can sit on a computer that during the course of manufacture polluted

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> the environment with many solvents, and during operation burns electricity > that most likely was produced at least partially through burning of fossil > fuels. Also, the operation of the computers can produce the "bad" kind of > ozone that...blah, blah, blah....the sky is falling.... > Also, seeing that you are on the RAS newsgroup, I will assume you are a > motorsports fan of some sort. If this is true, then unless you watch only > solar powered car racing (or hydrogen), then you too contribute to dumping > that ***into the air. I also doubt you wring your hands every lap

saying, > "oh no, there's another gallon in the air." > One lap in a race car puts as much "crap", if not more, into the air as one > of my trips to EB. So I fail to see your point in taking the environmental > high-road in this. > Point I was trying to make was that he was being small minded AND whining > instead of being proactive in his attempt to get the information he needed. > Unfortunately, I clicked my message out before I was finished with my post.

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> My apologies. > Ian > >: Last time I checked, working at EB entailed much more than answering a > >: phone. If you want to know if they have it, get your a$$ in the car and > >: drive down to EB and ask the person face to face. > >Yeah, that's a good idea. Instead of making a 10 cent phone call, hop in > >your car, burn a gallon of fuel, throw some more ***into the air. > >Stephen

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>> I'll throw another log on this fire. About 3 days after I bought my current >> automobile I was sitting in the parking lot of a supermarket eating my lunch >> and reading. Suddenly, I hear a *BANG* and look up to see the person >> collecting shopping carts in the parking lot had shoved a string of carts >> into the side of my car. It's black and has no side impact strips (my car), >> so I suddenly have a nice big dent in the side of my new car courtesy of >> this person. I watched as he wrestled the carts away and bumped into >> another car on the way to the little cart corral. I also noticed the person >> was developmentally disabled. I imagine he does a great job 95% of the >> time, but the other 5% of the time he shoves the carts into the sides of >> people's cars. Should I just think nice thoughts about how the supermarket >> did society a favor by hiring this guy or should I be pissed that they hired >> someone without enough mental wherewithall not to destroy people's cars? He >> does a great job 95% of the time afterall, right? >> ~daxe >My God, what a selfish outlook! Just turn it in as a "parking lot >incident". I agree that the place is doing well to hire such folk. >Don't put his job in jeopardy. If the whole situation is unacceptable, >just don't shop there. I think most people are compassionate enough to >understand. >I used to live with a deaf family about 20 years ago. Learned sign >language right quick. Believe me, they understand very well the >Neanderthals that exist in the hearing world. And some are very capable >of talking on the phone, those who get some benefit from hearing aids. >They are still not up to our level many times, but can certainly >accomplish their tasks. >You'll find that a little understanding can go a long way. You never >know when you or one of yours is in the same boat, observing the world's >cruel attitudes towards *YOU*.

There are always 2 sides to every coin and, when it comes to employing people with disabilities, both sides need to be considered and a balance needs to be reached. Indeed Daxe's comments do come across as harsh. However, they were similar to my own point of view. One born out of the need not to fall into the trap that I should feel sorry for all disabled people and therefore not complain out of some sense of superiority. In other words 'I shouldn't complain about the poor fellow, he is handicapped after all and so I'm better than him.' For me it was more important to treat all individuals the same and so try to look past any disabilities that they may have, out of wanting to give that person my respect instead of my sympathy. But to do so in these circumstances appears to sound very uncaring indeed and I don't think that it is possible in these cases. In order to balance things out one also needs to realise that with this kind of approach an employer would always opt for an able-bodied person over a disabled person. This just isn't acceptable. At the same time, if they err too much on the sympathetic side then we end up with disabled people being put in positions that they really are not suited to. So, to employ disabled people an employer has to way up the practicalities of the job along with the compassionate need to give disabled people the opportunities that others are afforded. If we look at it from this perspective and also try to consider that all you can ask from any individual is to try their hardest then, in most cases we should be happy to see disabled people in the work place. -- Peter Ives - (AKA Ivington) No person's opinions can be said to be more correct than another's, because each is the sole judge of his or her own experience.

Stephen, Your point was well taken, and politely and eloquently expressed. Perhaps I spoke a little too hastily. Even though I disagreed with the majority of the comments, I did actually enjoy reading a few of them. Everybody's entitled to their opinion; and, as you said, it's not a big problem for me to ignore one or two occasional off-topic threads. I retract my comment. Carry on with your fun. Reggie

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> : Enough of this crap,already. It doesn't belong here. > I never understand this reaction. R.A.S. isn't a moderated group. If I > go to a party with all of my cycling friends, 90% of the talk is about our > cycling races, group rides, training schedules etc. 10% of the talk is > about things unrelated to cycling. If I don't want to listen to a > conversation about my cycling friend's holiday in Greece, I find a > different cycling friend to talk to. But if I did want to hear about a > holidy in Greece, I would much rather hear about it from my cycling > friend, who I know something about, than to go find a party for people who > have visited Greece recently. With threaded newsreaders and fast modems, > the inconvenience caused by one or two off-topic threads is > negligible. These threads pop up, flare for a while, the die down. A > certain number of us enjoy them, so what's the harm? I learned a little > bit more about Bruce K., for example, and his views, Scott from Powersims > etc. and this makes their subsequent on-topic posts a little more personal > and interesting. R.A.S. is a community of people who are not necessarily > like-minded, but do share a passion for sims. Personally, I don't mind if > some discussion other than sims pops up from time to time, but that's just > my opinion. > Stephen

Well said, Steve.

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> : Enough of this crap,already. It doesn't belong here. > I never understand this reaction. R.A.S. isn't a moderated group. If I > go to a party with all of my cycling friends, 90% of the talk is about our > cycling races, group rides, training schedules etc. 10% of the talk is > about things unrelated to cycling. If I don't want to listen to a > conversation about my cycling friend's holiday in Greece, I find a > different cycling friend to talk to. But if I did want to hear about a > holidy in Greece, I would much rather hear about it from my cycling > friend, who I know something about, than to go find a party for people who > have visited Greece recently. With threaded newsreaders and fast modems, > the inconvenience caused by one or two off-topic threads is > negligible. These threads pop up, flare for a while, the die down. A > certain number of us enjoy them, so what's the harm? I learned a little > bit more about Bruce K., for example, and his views, Scott from Powersims > etc. and this makes their subsequent on-topic posts a little more personal > and interesting. R.A.S. is a community of people who are not necessarily > like-minded, but do share a passion for sims. Personally, I don't mind if > some discussion other than sims pops up from time to time, but that's just > my opinion. > Stephen

There was nothing racist, prejudiced or biggoted in the post. Just Truth, that you evidently can't deal with. Perhaps part of it hit too close to home for you. My reply had nothing in particular in it about _Anyone_! It had only an ananogy to relate to the liberalisim pouring forth in the newsgroup about racing games. It also had a note about absolutely uninformed people in extremely high offices in this country who "Don't know someone and don't want to" just because of what they heard in the press. This person was also somewhat related to you because you don't know Sh*&^ about me and you wrote a post very pointedly, all because your liberalisim was offended by me finding humor in the original post. Please find a place in your day to laugh at some things. I even find humor in your reply! Don't let the world bother you, cause, neither You nor I are going to change it. Phil. Happy Racising... Hehehe

I don't believe he said that. I think that what most people have been saying is that the person should actually be able to DO the job they're hired for. There's nothing wrong with handicapped people being able to work. I'm all for it - it can give someone a sense of independence. But if the person cannot do the job, then they shouldn't be in the position. Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Ok Tim, I'll even "Find in your behalf" a little. The Expletives used in the description of the hearing impaired person were, Lets say, less than well thought out. which is a shame considering that the person had to type a while and intentionally send out such a description. However, I have simply had a ball following the thread. Laughing to tears with all the back and forth posts. Many of which are really accurate points of view on both sides. Yours, on the other hand, no offense intended, are absolutely the most vulgar and negative in the thread. I don't see why you need to use such terms to get your point across. Everyone gets the idea. Now, you made a reference to me in a previous post, which I don't mind by any means, but it gets me to thinking. Do you have a vested interest in this topic?? For your reference, since you seem to think the worst about me. A good portion of my job entails handicapped people. I do work on all kinds of systems in places with nearly ALL handicapped people. I work with blind people and software for Win95/98/Office97/2000 that allows the computer to "Talk" so that "BLIND" (I don't mean partially) people can do clerical work, bookkeeping, administrative tasks, and yes, even answer the phone. At another location mentally and physically handicapped people are trained and placed in jobs in the community. Some of which I work WITH at other places where I work. One even in a machine shop owned by my brother. Another customer, (one of the largest, if not THE largest) employs about 100 handicapped persons who all work at various bid projects sent in from the outside world as a subcontract. Obviously, in varying levels of skills, they perform different parts of the whole task. I don't consider myself prejudice, or any of your other terms. I am happy to see that I'm not an ***, as so many others in the thread have been branded. Even though, as You say, I did crawl out of a hole, I hope not the rectal type. Your seemingly endless posts, all of which vary little in content, are starting to look like a crusade. Please, give us all some background on your situation so that we (or at least I) may know why this has you so offended. PS. You may even reply to my email address, since I'm not afraid to hand mine out. Thanks again..... P.

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>>>We really need to >>>step back from this overly PC attitude. >>Amen > We need to take the bigoted ***s like you two out to be shot. > I'll add my own amen to that. > -Tim

Hey, GTX Don't you get Off Topic now! :)- We don't want any of that SIM stuff in here! >Augh! I seem to be "winning impaired" in GPL so you guys take it easy on >me, ok? >(Just trying to blend some sim stuff back into this thread). >;) Slot

I don't want to disagree too much Steve, but, have you used any speech to text software? If so, you will agree, we are one hell of a long way from speach to text. :) I get to see quite a bit of development in the area and I'd hate to be the deaf person reading the screen on that phone. Most hearing people can't get the translation right.

Actually Chuck, He didn't anywhere say that he asked to have the person fired, simply that he complained to the management about the incident. Precisely what he should do since it's the management's fault for the entire deal. The person who was moving the carts was most likely sent from some agency that places such people in jobs such as this, and evaluated the person to be capable of the job. Trouble is, the management probably never bothered to tell the person that running the carts into customers cars is "very bad" and "we don't do that here." As I spend time in just such a training center, I can assure you that the people I see get chosen for their personal ability. That doesn't mean that they are "Ready to Go" do any job on the planet without further help, it simply means that someone qualified, feels that the person _Can_ be trained to function 100%. Kind of like a Temp agency that places people in jobs to help out in an office lets say. It doesn't mean the person knows _Your_ office inside and out, just that they can do office work and _Can_ function. >> It is this mentality that breeds mediocrity and society's acceptance of it.

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>> Get off your politically-correct soapbox and be honest and equal in your >> approach to the handicapped. That is all they ask. >Mediocrity? PC Soapbox?? All I ask is to not try & get someone fired >intentionally because they don't meet others' ways of perfection. >Everybody needs to make a living. Geeez! I suppose you've never had a >"mediocre" moment in your line of employment? Under your guidelines, >it's unacceptable & you should be terminated right then & there. No. I >don't "accept mediocrity". I accept the fact that *EVERYONE*, myself >included, has shortcomings. I accept my fellow man's shortcomings, as I >hope they will accept (or at least overlook) mine. You'd suggest I >would better serve this handicapped gentleman by entering the store & >raving like a lunatic at his employer, demanding his job? Baloney! >-- >//Chuck Kandler #70 >//ChuckK on Won.net & WinVROC >//K&S Racing >http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/thepits/195 >//The box said "Windows 0x5h or better", so I installed LINUX!

Hey folks, I'm just amazed at how many people get great deals on their cars and insurance, that we should just let people smash em up new, and not think anything of it. Just turn it in to the insurance company, but of course, don't tell anyone at the store, so the insurance company can validate your claim. Hellooo, is there any intelligent life out there............. <Snip> <Snip>

: I don't want to disagree too much Steve, but, have you used any speech to : text software? If so, you will agree, we are one hell of a long way from : speach to text. :) I get to see quite a bit of development in the area and : I'd hate to be the deaf person reading the screen on that phone. Most : hearing people can't get the translation right. "Not far off" is a very grey period. I admit the software is poor, but it's kind of fun to play the visionary. If someone told me two years ago that Honda was going to sell a sub 3L/100km (over 80mpUSg) hybrid car by the year 2000 in the land of the sport utility, I would have laughed. Somehow this technology sneaks up on you. Stephen :>the system never has a chance to grow and improve. We're not far off from :>reliable speech-to-text conversion, and vice-versa, that will make your :>telephone conversation with a hearing impaired person no different than :>any other. :> :>Stephen :>

> Actually Chuck, He didn't anywhere say that he asked to have the person > fired, simply that he complained to the management about the incident. Actually, it was implied earlier in the thread. The quote was: The guy will probably work there until the store gets fed up with irate customers complaining about having their cars dented (which is what I did) No, it was never said. But it's there. Although, to be fair, he backed away from that position later which I read to be that the first remark was made in anger. That's OK, we all do that sometimes. I absolutely agree. That's where I have a problem with this. It is a matter of management's incompetence, but the way it then gets presented, the Mgr. is given the opportunity to "cover his behind" with someone who cannot reasonably defend himself. And will probably have a heck of a time trying to secure future employment. Instead the pressure needs to be applied in a place & in a way where it's brought to bear on the manager involved so he cannot transfer blame down the ladder. He should give this guy another assignment, but not the opportunity to fire him. Not at this point anyway. Besides, we're all assuming quite a lot here. For all anyone knows, he was just having a bad day. None of you has ever had one of those days?? -- //Chuck Kandler #70 //ChuckK on Won.net & WinVROC //K&S Racing http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/thepits/195 //The box said "Windows 0x5h or better", so I installed LINUX!

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> Hey folks, I'm just amazed at how many people get great deals on their cars > and insurance, that we should just let people smash em up new, and not think > anything of it. Just turn it in to the insurance company, but of course, > don't tell anyone at the store, so the insurance company can validate your > claim. > Hellooo, is there any intelligent life out there.............

I believe it's called compassion. It'll be much easier for me to get it fixed than for this gentleman to get another job. If I have a problem with it, I just won't come back. The person at fault should be punished, which is the Mgr. who seems incapable of assessing his employees abilities. NOT this man, who was placed in the wrong job. -- //Chuck Kandler #70 //ChuckK on Won.net & WinVROC //K&S Racing http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/thepits/195 //The box said "Windows 0x5h or better", so I installed LINUX!

> Keep in mind now, > you're in America. The land of free speech as long as your not talking > about minorities. God forbid that John Rocker speak his mind. Actually, I'm all in favor of letting these people speak their minds just as fully and as much as they desire. Gives us all a chance to see how corrupt & shallow their little minds actually are. Maybe it'll open some people's eyes. -- //Chuck Kandler #70 //ChuckK on Won.net & WinVROC //K&S Racing http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/thepits/195 //The box said "Windows 0x5h or better", so I installed LINUX!

They didn't have the person answering the phone. that was part of the gripe. They gave another number to call. Chances are very great that if you work at EB, the tremendous bulk of your work is done face to face with customers. Back in my college days, I used to work retail, and the time spent answering the phone was probably 3% of the time. >Get real Ray. What kind of moron company would have people who can't hear >answering the phone?

Geez!!! I can just imagine what flamestorms on you this will provoke from the crowd that goes "no,we are not being politcally correct, we're mere pointing out other people's uneducated ignorance". So far they have pointed out very little , but have wreaked OCEANS of emotional reasoning into this thread,........ -- Robert S?derberg If replying by mail,remove the word INGENSPAM from the adress.

. Yes,but the non-pc camp has been providing more and more articulate and specified arguments, on the demands of the non- PC-people,while the communication from the PC side has mainly consisted arguments that fall in three categories: 1)You are all socially irresponsible! 2)You're an ***! 3) shut up! Very constructive...I can see why the non-PC people are pulling out now.... they seem to have exhausted they entire store of arguments... -- Robert S?derberg If replying by mail,remove the word INGENSPAM from the adress.

: . :> :> I'm pulling out of this discussion now. After all, it's not really :> r.a.s. material, and we seem to have two distinct camps, so it's just :> going to go back and forth ad nauseum. :> :> Stephen :> :> : Yes,but the non-pc camp has been providing : more and more articulate and specified arguments, : on the demands of the non- PC-people,while the communication : from the PC side has mainly consisted arguments that fall : in three categories: : 1)You are all socially irresponsible! : 2)You're an ***! : 3) shut up! : Very constructive...I can see why the non-PC : people are pulling out now.... they seem to have : exhausted they entire store of arguments... Arg. Okay, I'm back in, at least temporarily. Go back and read my posts. It's not about PC. PC is a label thrown around to mock anyone who is socially minded. My views and decisions are not based on my desire to not offend. I can offend people quite well if I want to. My opinions are based on my own personal opinion about how we support people such as the hearing impaired sales employee in question. I don't see PC and non-PC people in this thread. I see a group who feels that everyone has to make his or her own way in the world, and those who feel that giving some people certain advantages does not necessarily undermine their dignity, nor does it have a negative impact on those who do not receive the same advantages. Stephen

> Arg. Okay, I'm back in, at least temporarily. Go back and read my posts. It's not about > PC. PC is a label thrown around to mock anyone who is socially minded. My views and decisions > are not based on my desire to not offend. I can offend people quite well if I want to. Yep. I've never had a problem offending others either! <g> Here, here. Very well spoken indeed, Stephen. -- //Chuck Kandler #70 //ChuckK on Won.net & WinVROC //K&S Racing http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/thepits/195 //The box said "Windows 0x5h or better", so I installed LINUX!

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> Arg. Okay, I'm back in, at least temporarily. Go back and read my posts. It's not about > PC. PC is a label thrown around to mock anyone who is socially minded. My views and decisions > are not based on my desire to not offend. I can offend people quite well if I want to. My > opinions are based on my own personal opinion about how we support people such as the hearing > impaired sales employee in question. I don't see PC and non-PC people in this thread. I see a > group who feels that everyone has to make his or her own way in the world, and those who feel > that giving some people certain advantages does not necessarily undermine their dignity, nor > does it have a negative impact on those who do not receive the same advantages. > Stephen

Steven, I donj't speak Clintonese. Just because you say it's not about PC does not make it a fact. It is, in the cold light of day, very much about Political Correctness. The most frustrating thing about dealing with the liberal camp is that they want it both ways, but only for themselves. They want the absolute freedom to say anything they want, including the demonization of anyone who disagrees with them. They expect to be able to spout any sort of bromide or platitude, and have it believed, regardless of its validity. They assume the right of vitriol against those who presume to disagree, even against those whose arguments are reasoned and respectful. They do not, however, convey this same advantage to anyone else. Anyone who disagrees with a liberal is immediately tagged as subhuman. Liberals have this maddeningly pious attitude, as if they alone are the guardians of the downtrodden, the "working guy," minorities, and the "disadvantaged." They come in all flavors, but there are two which are most prevalent on this thread We have the Tim (Enigmatic One) type who just calls for the death or crippling of anyone who disagrees with him, but it's obvious that the man (boy?) has little twixt his ears to reason with. So one can ignore a fool. Usually their attention span just gives out and they go away. But no matter how vicious Tim's attacks were, you notice that not one of the brainier liberals voiced disapproval of the cruelty that spewed forth from him with all of the thoughtfulness of vomit pouring out of a drunk. Far more aggravating are the intelligent but patronizingly pious liberals such as Bart Brown, Steve Ferguson and Scott Husted who operate on the assumption that anyone who disagrees with them is just plain evil. They always spice up their posts with little jabs and remarks designed to make them appear the compassionate ones and their opponents cold and uncaring. (Bart's especially good at this with his habit of only quoting (out of context) that which he needs to make a skewed point.) It's not unintentional. It's the way the liberal mind works -- above all else (especially truth) demonize your opposition. They whine that it's not about Political Correctness, but that it's about compassion (meaning them, of course) as opposed to indifference (meaning their cold, uncaring, mean-spirited opponents who'd just as soon leave these (fill in the victims) to die in the gutter). But the fact is that it is all about political correctness. There are certain groups in this country who, in the eyes of any liberal, must be free from the standards to which all of the rest of us must adhere. They must not be criticized, they must not be held to the same standards of civility, excellence and responsibility as the rest of us because of some presumed historical offense perped against these folks at one time or another. (I could go into chapter and verse here to back all of this up, and will do so for anyone who is interested. But this is not the place.) This also is my last post on RAS period, except for technical questions. It's nearly gotten to the point on this newsgroup that one can't voice an opinion without being attacked personally, regardless of the topic. I've had it. -- Bob Curtin Worcester Area Strategy & Tactics Exchange http://www.tiac.net/users/ten10ths/ "If God had intended men to join the Army he would have given us green, baggy skin"

Bob, not ver consise, but very much to the point. Man you really defined a liberal well. What I thought was funny is no one even made a remark on my comment that the guy should have taken his money elsewhere since EB would not make sure they had two employees in the store. Dave

> Bob, not ver consise, but very much to the point. Man you really defined a > liberal well. What I thought was funny is no one even made a remark on my > comment that the guy should have taken his money elsewhere since EB would > not make sure they had two employees in the store. > Dave I didn't reply to it because a) I agreed fully, and most especially b) I could add nothing further to the concept. And in Bob's post, the reason I didn't remark back to Mr. Enigmatic One's attacks is because I didn't feel like dignifying such dung with any remark, not because I'd approved of his message. Although I feel good I wasn't trounced in his post like some others. Ouch. ;-) -- //Chuck Kandler #70 //ChuckK on Won.net & WinVROC //K&S Racing http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/thepits/195 //The box said "Windows 0x5h or better", so I installed LINUX!

Nope. Just no reason to use reason and logic to argue with stupidity, ignorance, hate and bigotry. Those who speak the language of hate tend not to understand much but said language. I'll use it to argue with them. Did you get that? If not, here, I'll try in your language: You should just be taken out back and shot! Better? -Tim

:>We have the Tim (Enigmatic One) type who just calls for the death or crippling :>of anyone who :>disagrees with him, but it's obvious that the man (boy?) has little twixt his :>ears to reason with. : Nope. Just no reason to use reason and logic to argue with stupidity, : ignorance, hate and bigotry. Those who speak the language of hate tend not to : understand much but said language. I'll use it to argue with them. : Did you get that? If not, here, I'll try in your language: You should : just be taken out back and shot! : Better? : -Tim Thanks, Tim, you really help the rest of us who are approaching the issue from the liberal side. Stephen

I realise that I am splitting hairs, but for me "politically correct", through the addition of the word "politically" implies that there is some ulterior motive to one's actions, which was often the case with some of the over-the-top changes to the english language to make it inclusive and inoffensive. Politically correct implies doing something because others perceive it is the right thing to do, and that one takes these actions because one seeks the approval of others. My opinions and actions are based on what I perceive for myself as being the right way to treat others, not based on a desire to be seen as "doing the right thing". You can call me a liberal, or a socialist, but I would prefer to stay away from the PC label simply because it somehow devalues my reason for acting and thinking the way I do. PC, it seems is always said with a sneer. Stephen

From the liberal side? Not really. From my side, I'd say. I have no patience for hatred, bigotry, etc. Why should I? -Tim

What I find funny is no one finds anything wrong with a company that would put a hearing impaired employee in their store alone. In this day and age that is an issue all on its own I guess Dave

:>Thanks, Tim, you really help the rest of us who are approaching the issue :>from the liberal side. : : From the liberal side? Not really. From my side, I'd say. I have no : patience for hatred, bigotry, etc. Why should I? Well, I don't really like the idea of having my opinions associated with "your side". But as you are continually attacking the fellow who started this whole thread, and those who have supported him, and I have argued that one should extend certain advantages in our society, then we are somehow aligned in this thread, although this leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Your posts on this issue provide nothing to indicate that you are any different from the "hateful bigots" you have no patience for. Stephen

>I believe it's called compassion. It'll be much easier for me to get it >fixed than for this gentleman to get another job. If I have a problem >with it, I just won't come back. The person at fault should be >punished, which is the Mgr. who seems incapable of assessing his >employees abilities. NOT this man, who was placed in the wrong job. Now you want the manager to get in trouble for trying to cut a person with an obvious learning disability a break? My solution to this as a manager would be simple, and go right back to the very first message in this thread -I would cover my ass and not hire someone incapable of doing the job. Otherwise, I wouldn't be doing MY job 100% effectively. Do you not realize that you're chasing your tail here, Chuck? Tim

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> >I believe it's called compassion. It'll be much easier for me to get it > >fixed than for this gentleman to get another job. If I have a problem > >with it, I just won't come back. The person at fault should be > >punished, which is the Mgr. who seems incapable of assessing his > >employees abilities. NOT this man, who was placed in the wrong job. > Now you want the manager to get in trouble for trying to cut a person > with an obvious learning disability a break? > My solution to this as a manager would be simple, and go right back to > the very first message in this thread -I would cover my ass and not > hire someone incapable of doing the job. Otherwise, I wouldn't be > doing MY job 100% effectively. > Do you not realize that you're chasing your tail here, Chuck? > Tim

I respectfully disagree, Tim. There are numerous other duties within the store that I'm sure he could carry out. That's part of the "people skill" a good manager should possess. The sort of sense of what a person is capable of doing well, "reading people" if you will. Breaking boxes, sweeping & mopping, etc. All are necessary & important tasks in their own right & can be used to free up time of other employees who would be better utilized in other capacities. Where there is a will, there is a way. Only a hateful, unimaginative manager would see no other alternatives. ;-) -- /Chuck Kandler #70 /ChuckK on Won.net & WinVROC /K&S Racing http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/thepits/195 /The box said "Windows 0x5h or better", so I installed LINUX!