Viper Racing and SCGT

I've been getting a little bored with GPL lately, and so decided to try some other sims for a while - SCGT and Viper. SCGT is pretty good for a day or two. The tracks and cars are great, maybe better than anything else out there. In the end, though, I can't get past two things. One, the way the car seems to be balanced on the head of a pin, that is, you can put half the car off the track before anything bad happens. Two, the speeds of the AI cars are too inconsistent to have fun. If there was a "Nim's AI" type of update for it, I think I could get more into it. Viper is great! I'd only played the demo before, and thought it was good. After driving the car on more tracks, I have to say it's seriously rivals GPL. The FF runs a close second to GPL too. It's by far better than the FF in any other sim I've tried. Unfortunately, the tracks kind of stink, and probably won't hold my attention much longer. If only we had the SCGT tracks in Viper! Seems to me that Viper would be a great candidate for third-party development. New tracks and cars could make this sim an equal to GPL. N3 would be great if it had Viper's physics model. Oh well, I'll probably be back on VROC in a few days :) -- Pat Dotson IMPACT Motorsports http://www.impactmotorsports.com/pd.html

Pretty accurate observations, Pat. I agree with your assessment of Viper. This game needs a "track pack" update. Pretty damn good physics though. Todd

I agree. Why is it that the companies that can afford to get all the track and car licenses never spend enough on the physics? At the same time the companies who nail the physics can't afford to get any licenses???? -- Brian Fox http://www.geocities.com/~foxman Pobody's Nerfect Warranty void if tagline removed. <snip>

I agree Pat. Its a shame Viper didn't meet its full expectations in terms of features, tracks, etc. From my understanding, several items did not get implemented into the release as the developers had hoped. Even if it was only Vipers to race, it would be awesome if we had actual race circuits along with a better multiplayer implementation. Scott PA-Scott -- Scott B. Husted "PA-Scott" COO MMMGI ICQ# 4395450 http://www.MMMGI.com http://www.Acrotech.net http://www.Powersims.com http://www.InternetMotorsports.net

Sounds like your just getting into Viper. The game really starts when you get into Career mode. Don't give up on it till you win in Career mode with max difficulty settings, it's a real challenge. I've had more exciting races with the AI in Viper than I have so far in gpl. -- Don Scurlock Vancouver,B.C.

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> >Viper is great! I'd only played the demo before, > >and thought it was good. After driving the car > >on more tracks, I have to say it's seriously > >rivals GPL. > Sounds like your just getting into Viper. The game > really starts when you get into Career mode. Don't give > up on it till you win in Career mode with max difficulty

I'm starting to get out of if already :) After about 4 hours last night, and 3 hours tonight, I've won some pro races in career mode. I was hoping that at higher levels, the tracks would get better, but they just get more NFS-like. That kills the fun for me. What I want out of a sim is a realistic experience. Ideally, it would enhance my real-world driving ability, and teach me something about car control that I didn't know before. Driving 150 mph through a road runner cartoon isn't my idea of realism. It's too bad, because the physics of the sims is really really good. It's disappointing that there isn't some more realistic pavement to drive on. Guess I'll have to wait on Skip Barber, and WSC! -- Pat Dotson IMPACT Motorsports http://www.impactmotorsports.com/pd.html

I think you are expecting too much from a "GAME". Although we call them sims because they simulate setting up race cars and some what simulate what driving one "might be like" there is no way in hell that you can get a real simulation of what driving a real race car is like since you base everything on visual feedback from a flat computer screen. As far as the Viper tracks go, they more closely simulate what you would, in your real world driving, be likely to drive on. They are very close to the open road races held in Nevada (and a few other states I guess) every year. Yes I fully agree that VR was in dire need of some real world tracks like SCGT. If after just a couple of sessions you are regularly beating the AI at the max settings then I guess you need to go back to GP2 and GPL. Wish I was that good, It took me weeks to finally win the Career season at the GT level. Although I have not played it in months it was one of the most challenging sims available. Just my opinions, Paul

(viper racing) Does anybody know of ANY attempts whatsoever of third-party development beyond car-painting for Viper Racing , such as new tracks/track modificatons/new cars (models) ? -- Robert S?derberg If replying by mail,remove the word INGENSPAM from the adress.

> I think you are expecting too much from a "GAME". If it were a simple "game", then yes, it would be expecting too much. Viper has enough of the real- world physics incorporated into it, that it could really be used as a teaching tool - that is, assuming it had realistic tracks or driving areas. As it is, there is still a lot that could be learned from it. I pretty much completely disagree. Of course, you can't completely prepare to drive a real car by driving a sim. Despite that, many aspects of car control can be simulated on a computer, and a sim can give you a very good idea of what to expect when you do get into a real car. The key is to study, and understand, how the sim experience relates to what happens in a real car. For instance, I went to a driving school last fall. They run SCCA spec cars - Formula Renault is the proper name I think. Other than karts, a bit of auto-x'ing, and a few laps in a midget sprint car, this is the only time I've been in a race vehicle. GPL and the other sims I used, combined with a lot of studying about race car handling, really prepared me for driving those cars. Driving them was totally natural from the start. Interestingly, the biggest problem I had going fast was with shifting, because that has been poorly modeled by sims in the past. Once we get RS shifter support for GPL, I'll have that wired too! :) I'll grant you that, but I'm not likely to be going 170 mph on an interstate :) I think Viper is really as challenging to drive as GPL. That fact is masked by the tracks in Viper. If we had the chance to take a lap at GPL's Rouen in Viper, it would be apparent to all. That said, I think having a good handle on GPL would allow someone to be competitive in Viper right away. I made it through the first two classes and into Pro within about the first four hours with the sim. -- Pat Dotson IMPACT Motorsports http://www.impactmotorsports.com/pd.html

That I cannot more agree with. I still say Viper Racing, even if praised, is under-estimed. It was a little ahead of it's time, and flaws like acceptable sound and fantasy tracks are the only reason why it somehow failed to keep the attention. Oh and the closed-architecture MGI created it. But for a first title (well even if they were from Papyrus) ? Excellent. The game engine has potential, it just stinks that it's already been more than a year and we haven't seen any news from them. Not even a press release of their upcoming sim, if they will ever do one. I really hope they do. Just imagine Viper Racing with more *** cars (Porsches, McLaren F1 and Mercedes CLK, etc...), on real tracks around the world. Laguna, Nurburgring, Elkhart Lake, etc.. Put the name "Need for Speed" and get published by EA so they can fund the licensing. Incredible seller. Well they would have to make it open architecture and possibility give us Online community tools (multiplayer racing is not enough anymore). -- -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

I think is better to ahve tracks in like downtown New York or Montana or something. More real this way

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>> I think Viper is really as challenging to drive >> as GPL. That fact is masked by the tracks in >> Viper. If we had the chance to take a lap at >> GPL's Rouen in Viper, it would be apparent to >> all. >That I cannot more agree with. I still say Viper Racing,

even if praised, >is under-estimed. It was a little ahead of it's time, and flaws like >acceptable sound and fantasy tracks are the only reason why it somehow >failed to keep the attention. Oh and the closed architecture MGI created even a press release

> I think is better to ahve tracks in like downtown New York > or Montana or something. More real this way I love watching the Sports Car races that they have in downtown New York, and catch them on ESPN whenever they are on. The Montana races are good too. I totally agree with this 100%. -- Pat Dotson IMPACT Motorsports http://www.impactmotorsports.com/pd.html

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>> I think is better to ahve tracks in like downtown New York >> or Montana or something. More real this way >I love watching the Sports Car races that they >have in downtown New York, and catch them on ESPN >whenever they are on. The Montana races are good >too. I totally agree with this 100%.

Yeah, I love to see those R&S's careening down the alleys in Brooklyn, with the muggers, and the firebombs ... Fire! Fire!! ;) -- * rrev at mindspring dot com

> Yeah, I love to see those R&S's careening down the alleys > in Brooklyn, with the muggers, and the firebombs ... > Fire! Fire!! > ;) Careful Ed...look what's happened to John Rocker for this kind of humor. :-)

> I think is better to ahve tracks in like downtown New York > or Montana or something. More real this way <parts of previous post snipped> These tracks are not real? Maybe you should have rephrased this and said something in the order of.. "I'd rather drive in Cities rather then race tracks." The tracks mentioned by YManard are real tracks. Driving in Cities or out in the desert and such would be fun but would still be almost the same as now... Viper Racing would have died (so to speak) as quick as it did before. just my opinion, Mike -- ========================================= Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing? ========================================= http://members.xoom.com/BarlowRacing/ Racing online with the help of...... Race Communications Association Holodyne Engineering Mystic Music (have Your !!Name/Address!! placed here)

What he wants is a Nintendo 64 so he can 'play' Midtown Madness. I have one question about Viper Racing. How come the Vipers in SCGT look more Viperish than the Viper Vipers? dave henrie

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> > I think is better to ahve tracks in like downtown New York > > or Montana or something. More real this way > <parts of previous post snipped> > >Just imagine Viper Racing with more *** cars (Porsches, > > McLaren F1 and > > >Mercedes CLK, etc...), on real tracks around the world. > > Laguna, > > >Nurburgring, Elkhart Lake, etc.. > These tracks are not real? Maybe you should have rephrased this and > said something in the order of.. "I'd rather drive in Cities rather then > race tracks." The tracks mentioned by YManard are real tracks. Driving > in Cities or out in the desert and such would be fun but would still be > almost the same as now... Viper Racing would have died (so to speak) as > quick as it did before. > just my opinion, > Mike > -- > ========================================= > Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing? > ========================================= > http://members.xoom.com/BarlowRacing/ > Racing online with the help of...... > Race Communications Association > Holodyne Engineering > Mystic Music > (have Your !!Name/Address!! placed here)

> What he wants is a Nintendo 64 so he can 'play' Midtown Madness. > I have one question about Viper Racing. How come the Vipers in SCGT > look more Viperish than the Viper Vipers? > dave henrie I don't like flaming as much as the next person, And sometimes I write a post that may appear to be a flame when it wasn't originally meant to be. so... Did you notice that he has picked up the GPL demo about a week ago and has a 15 fps frame rate. He has instantly became an expert and knows everything about GPL almost over nite? -- ========================================= Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing? ========================================= http://members.xoom.com/BarlowRacing/ Racing online with the help of...... Race Communications Association Holodyne Engineering Mystic Music (have Your !!Name/Address!! placed here)