To PC Only Racers - Give PSX GT2 a try! (long)

At the risk of getting flamed, if you have resisted trying Gran Turismo, or Gran Turismo 2, because you think that anything on a PlayStation can't be a real simulation - then you owe it to yourself to give it a chance. You will be surprised at how good it really is. I have spent about six hours during the last week with GT2, and IMHO it's even better than GT. Cons: The graphics aren't up to current PC standards. The standard control options are limited. (Acceleration is on/off). Transitions between menus are slow. Always defaults to running a replay when you finish a race, test, license, etc.). No multi-player (only split screen two-player racing in arcade mode). The car modeling isn't GPL, but it's as good as any other PC sim. No force feedback. Pros: When racing the framerate is fast and smooth. The replays are wonderful. Engine sound is good, and you can turn off the music. Arcade and Simulation modes. Hundreds of cars, inlcuding American Muscle cars. Career mode, with License tests. (Easier to earn than GT) Many car tuning options, with test tracks. Dozens of real and fantasy race tracks. (Laguna Seca is great) Rally cars and courses. (Pikes Peak) Think about this, for the price of a mid-range video card, about $150, you can pickup a PlayStation, memory card, and GT2. BTW - would anyone care to offer their recommendations for PSX controllers? Are any of the wheels worth buying? Keep in mind that I'm hard to please, having been spoiled by my LWFF! Alan

beleive my PSX experiences ( CMcRae, GT, VRally 1 VRally 2 ), BUY A NEGCON , an analog left-right ( you have to twist the negcon to turn lef/right , very similar movment as turning a wheel ), 2 seperates analog buttons ( yon can push plus or less ), to accel/brake. + an anlogue trigger in front of pad L1 ). when correctly configured and calibrated ( in GT / GT2 ) , it's really rally accurate trajecotry driving line that you'll have !!!! -- ============================================================================ == Sebastien Tixier - Game Developer Company Web Site http://www.eden-studios.fr Games developed http://www.vrally.com Personal/Friends web site http://www.multimania.com/hclyon ============================================================================ ==

It does have a nice feel to it for a console title (GT1). Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Hello, Regarding your statement on GT of course it is good.... Now for the price of even less than 150$ you can get BLEEM which allows you to play PSX games on your PC, with YOUR LWFF.... If you are a bit vicious you can even get a "cracked" bleem and a "yellow" GT (for the color of the CD).... mail me if you want more. Bye

Are you a Sony shareholder?

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> At the risk of getting flamed, if you have resisted trying Gran Turismo, > or Gran Turismo 2, because you think that anything on a PlayStation > can't be a real simulation - then you owe it to yourself to give it a > chance. > You will be surprised at how good it really is. > I have spent about six hours during the last week with GT2, > and IMHO it's even better than GT. > Cons: > The graphics aren't up to current PC standards. > The standard control options are limited. (Acceleration is on/off). > Transitions between menus are slow. > Always defaults to running a replay when you finish a race, test, license, > etc.). > No multi-player (only split screen two-player racing in arcade mode). > The car modeling isn't GPL, but it's as good as any other PC sim. > No force feedback. > Pros: > When racing the framerate is fast and smooth. > The replays are wonderful. > Engine sound is good, and you can turn off the music. > Arcade and Simulation modes. > Hundreds of cars, inlcuding American Muscle cars. > Career mode, with License tests. (Easier to earn than GT) > Many car tuning options, with test tracks. > Dozens of real and fantasy race tracks. (Laguna Seca is great) > Rally cars and courses. (Pikes Peak) > Think about this, for the price of a mid-range video card, about $150, > you can pickup a PlayStation, memory card, and GT2. > BTW - would anyone care to offer their recommendations for PSX controllers? > Are any of the wheels worth buying? Keep in mind that I'm hard to please, > having been spoiled by my LWFF! > Alan

-- Steven Dawkins - Research Assistant - University of York. Email Disclaimer ---------------------- The information in this email is confidential. It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else is unauthorised. The views expressed in this email are those of the author, and should not be attributed to the University of York, British Aerospace or any other party.

>Are you a Sony shareholder? No, the only stock I own is HDI. But picking up some Sony before August is a great idea. Alan

And the other reason I posted in this NG is because the posters in Playstation NG's are very juvenile. Which of course is understandable since it is marketed as a toy. I feel that GT and GT2 are exceptions. Are the users of this NG in agreement? And can we can break out of the "PC sims only" attitude that appears to be an unspoken rule. Alan

I haven't "resisted" it, I just didn't own a PSX. We got one for our boy for Christmas though, and I'll be getting GT2 early next week. I did try it briefly in a store, the driving model does seem very good! A little hard to get used to those tiny analog controllers though. I'd also like recommendations for controllers ... and I'm also a Logitech FF wheel user, so a bit spoiled in that department. Not sure I'd like the "cheapo" PSX wheels. What about those handheld racer controllers, with the dial for the wheel? Anyone have experience with them? Are they better than the little analog joysticks? Does the racing dial controller also have analog inputs for steering/braking? What abut gear-shifting, are there buttons in convenient locations? Joe McGinn _________________________ GA-Sports Writer http://www.ga-sports.com/

>BUY A NEGCON , an analog left-right ( you have to twist the negcon to turn >lef/right , very similar movment as turning a wheel ), 2 seperates analog >buttons ... Does it also have gear-shifter buttons in a convenient location? Joe McGinn _________________________ GA-Sports Writer http://www.ga-sports.com/

>Now for the price of even less than 150$ you can get BLEEM ... Does BLEEM work with GT2, and are frame-rates as good as native PSX? Does it work with analog PC controllers like the Logitech wheel? Joe McGinn _________________________ GA-Sports Writer http://www.ga-sports.com/

Heck, the phsyics and play blow away quite a few PC games, including the much touted N3. I'm sure I'll hear it about that one but if one goes unbiased they'd have to admit it. PSX 2 should fix that if they stay with the DVD plans. It would be interesting to see a photorealistic racing game like GT2k. Who the heck would need ESPN? :) Go with one of the analog dual-shock controllers. They allow full motion on both steering and throttle and work very well for GT/GT2 and other games. Cost is about $30 at any Circuit City and likely cheaper elsewhere. True.. and it seems that there are two or three menu's that are just repeating information and could be skipped with no loss to the game. Probably to enhance the game (less is more in this case). Another true that would be nice to have a cancel. I guess they are so proud of their work on it (which is excellent given what they have to work with) that they want to make sure everyone see's it. ;) Haven't tried for 2 player yet but there is supposed to be a memory card battle which would lend towards two player simulation mode. Come to think of it, I've never even put that CD in yet! And better than most! Again, try the dual shock. It works quite well right down to giving you a 'feel' for the front wheels clawing out of the corners in the Ruf AWD's and the Skylines or the torque steer in the FWD's. Heck, it's a blast when sliding around the Escort Rally Car on Pikes Peak and feeling the dirt 'moving' under your hands. One other con; the Ai needs to get a bit more agressive, especially in endurance races. It's too easy to win since they might try to take a 60 lap race with only one tire change, usually at the last lap or two (duh)? Otherwise they need to progress in skill like they did in GT. It also changes as you mod the car. Different intakes and exhausts change the sound. Upgraded turbo's get more pronounced right down to the pop-off valve (which gets downright irritating after a short period of time) It also adds a turbo boost guage which reacts and reaches different limits as you mod the cars. It could be a bit harder to earn them.. I rather miss the maximum lap time events which made you work for the higher licenses instead of handing them to you after 5 minutes of figuring them out. It would be nice to run rally cars side by side (which is not the way ti's done in reality, at least not unless one catches another) as an option.. sometimes you get lucky if you choose the special under the marque but those are few and far between. __________________ Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will sit in a boat drinking beer all day.

I used to have one like that for the old Atari 2600 and the theme of the day was 'hand cramp'. Granted my hands were a bit smaller 20 years ago but it still something that haunted me for a while. Make sure you find it comfortable before you go that route. __________________ Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will sit in a boat drinking beer all day.

>>The graphics aren't up to current PC standards. >PSX 2 should fix that if they stay with the DVD plans. GT on the PSX2 should be pretty amazing ... it could be one of those "killer apps" that sells a lot of people on the PSX2 system. Joe McGinn _________________________ GA-Sports Writer http://www.ga-sports.com/

>>>The graphics aren't up to current PC standards. >>PSX 2 should fix that if they stay with the DVD plans. >GT on the PSX2 should be pretty amazing ... it could be one of those >"killer apps" that sells a lot of people on the PSX2 system. Unless something really fantastic comes along that would be the ONLY reason I'd bother to buy a PSX2. Console games never do much for me after getting a computer. They are great for arcade style action but that's not my forte. It's pretty sad when you will buy an entire system to play one game.. but then again how many people upgraded their systems to handle GPL or N3? __________________ Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will sit in a boat drinking beer all day.

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>>What about those handheld racer >>controllers, with the dial for the wheel? Anyone have experience with >>them? Are they better than the little analog joysticks? Does the >>racing dial controller also have analog inputs for steering/braking? >>What abut gear-shifting, are there buttons in convenient locations? >I used to have one like that for the old Atari 2600 and the theme of >the day was 'hand cramp'. Granted my hands were a bit smaller 20 >years ago but it still something that haunted me for a while. Make >sure you find it comfortable before you go that route.

What he says. Actually, I like the Interact UltraRacer hand-held PSX wheel/controller that I bought for GT. Lately I've been playing GT2 more than I ever played the original, and yes, I've noticed some "hand cramp". Especially when I did one of the endurance races. And that was a 30-lapper, shortest of them. Still, it was cheap and I find it usually works quite well. I've given the Madcatz wheel a try and my times are better with the UltraRacer. Now, that may very well be due to familiarity. But I find the hand-held unit to be more, err, handy. I find I have better control over the throttle and brake (push buttons) than with the foot pedals of the Madcatz. Conversely, I find I have better steering control with the Madcatz. Not surprising given that the wheel on the ultracer is only 2" in dia, thus very high gain. To your Q's: I like the controller. I find it much superior to the std digital control. Though some others I know prefer the digital. The analog brake (thumb push button) and throttle (index finger trigger) work very well. The buttons for shifting however are very hard to access as your two hands are already all over the controller doing the aforementioned tasks. Overall, at about $25, I'm very happy with the purchase.

Excuse me,please tell me how to use LWFF with bleem? I tried bleem and GT(1). but I cannot find how to use my LWFF, especially accelerator and brake setting. I tried separate or combined pedal and various bleems controller setting like x+, x-, y+,y-. but I just got reverse input.( when push pedal, GT on bleem detect DEPRESSED.) Thanks. Y.Minami Hello, Regarding your statement on GT of course it is good.... Now for the price of even less than 150$ you can get BLEEM which allows you to play PSX games on your PC, with YOUR LWFF.... If you are a bit vicious you can even get a "cracked" bleem and a "yellow" GT (for the color of the CD).... mail me if you want more. Bye

>Unless something really fantastic comes along that would be the ONLY >reason I'd bother to buy a PSX2. Console games never do much for me >after getting a computer. I don't think that will always be the case. The PSX2 packs an incredible amount of power, it will really make some wild stuff possible. The PC, I fear, will eventually fade as a serious *** platform due to the costs of maintaining and upgrading a decent *** system. Sooner or later *** is going to hit the "mainstream" ... and with a sub-$400 power-console that can also play DVD movies that may come sooner that we think (I'm not saying it will for sure, but it's possible). When that happens I would expect to see most *** development consolidate onto the mainstream platform. It will be like deciding whether to develop for Windows or Mac ... are you going to go for the 100-million user mainstream-*** market or the ten-million user hardcode PC market? An easy choice to make. Joe McGinn _________________________ GA-Sports Writer http://www.ga-sports.com/

That's not really much time to evaluate it. 8-) And you cannot change control options within a series. You have to exit the game and go to a special screen to do it. And when you do reconfigure the accelerator/brake, they must be either 1) analog but mutually exclusive (must be on same analog stick) or: 2) digital (but do then allow heel/toe). Just get pretty used to automatically pressing the "start"(!) button to stop the replay... The Dual Shock "rumbles" at appropriate times. But the pop-up is more obtrusive than GT1. I think in GT1 they designed their tracks with the idea that you would nearly always be able to see everything you could logically see, That does not seem to be the case in GT2. You have long straights where things appear after you should've been able to see them. (E.g. the footbridge across the main straight at Seattle). And, unlike GT1, you can shuffle your saved replays between libraries. But you can race your Simulation cars in Arcade Mode. That's the only place there are time trials anymore. It seems to use the Simulation physics for Arcade mode, unlike GT1. Using a killer Simulation car is the sleazy way a lot of people, including yours truly, seem to be quickly finishing up Arcade Mode. And Pike's Peak Hill Climbers which can clean up on road courses. Is that a feature, or a bug? But more of them. But they *are* doubly easier. It takes a bit longer to start making tons of money than in GT1, though. Don't use the Test Tracks, except to change parts down to meet horsepower limits. I.e., go into the test, change your parts, and then exit without running the test. There is reported to be a serious bug in GT2 where the saving of Test records can wipe out the contents of your "garage". GT2 was rushed out in time for Christmas. That, and the fact you can never get 100% finished according to the "game status" are results of the rush. I use the standard Sony "Dual-Shock" Analog Controllers, btw. At first I used a more ***-sized third-party one, but it wore out, and had other problems, so I learned to not grip the Dual Shock, but just rest it on my fingers. Adrian.

The physics in GT2 is acceptable, but it is still very arcadish. Car have way too much grip. There is no way in hell you can hang the car in the turn sideway at 70 mph into a turn without spinning (I do that all the time in GT2)

Yes, the UltraRacer is a fine controller IMHO. Steering, gas and brake are all analog. I use one of the analog pushbuttons on top for brakes, instead of the awkward forward motion of the gas "trigger". Two other buttons are right under your thumb for shifting. The only thing that takes some getting used to is getting around the menus, but is easily mastered. Spending $30 for the UltraRacer makes a lot more sense to me for a one game controller than a more expensive wheel. Lightning Leroy

There is no need to buy a special controller for GT2. It is just as easy to control it with the regular controller to pass all the test and win races

Racing a 413 hp Nissan Sylvia in the Apricot Hill 200km race, I found the physics to better than any PC game I've played, almost as good as Viper Racing at times. You can assign analog gas/brake to the right stick, but you will lose heel and toe. True analog heel and toe is possible with the Namco neGcon. True, there's no force feedback, but the dual shock vibration is excellent! With proper controller configuration, there is really no reason for you to take your hands of the joysticks. Here's me setup: Left stick--steering right stcik--gas/brake X--not used circle--recverse square--not used trinagle--change views L1--shift down R1--shift up L2--look back R2--handbrake

I found the AI pretty aggressive in the Laguna Seca 90 lap race. Unless you cheat and use the monster Pike's Peak Cars. Most difficult turn on that course? The corkscrew? (Amazing--reminds me of "tubing" on snow). Nope. Most difficult turn is the left-hander *inside* the pit lane. 8-) In general, they seem to take one less pit stop than you might; they don't seem to use any forethought, it's true. But in some of the perhaps dozen GT2 Enduros I've raced I've come from behind, and in that case your time behind the AI leader is shown. You can see that the leader takes pit stops only a little less frequently than you expect. But, talk about aggressive. In my first Trial Mountain 30 a Vector or some sort showed up, race-modified yet. I'm really not sure it was below the 295bhp limit. I stuck the race out in my tuned '93 Supra, because that was early in the game, and Cr100,000 for second place was a lot of money. Once the AI car laps you, you no longer get the time behind reports. 8-) I raced again in the same Supra, and the field was more reasonable, and I won. Last night I raced the same race in a red Subaru Impreza Wagon (looks sort of like the one in my real garage 8-), and got a really wimpy field which I lapped five times. (GT2 tells you how many times you lapped the other cars). I took my red Impreza Wagon to the "Apricot 200", thinking I might have a close battle with Ford GT40's, but again a wimpy field showed up. My time was good enough to beat the GT40's my TVR Griffith 500 had previously beaten (in fact, I beat the TVR time), but that's not the same thing as beating them. You can usually walk away with the races in the "Historic Car" set of races, unless a GT40 shows up. Thing is, no-one knows how to get a GT40 qualified to enter some of those particular races. At the Seattle 100 I had my 1970 Barracuda tuned so it could win against the field a previous car (Monte Carlo Mini) had raced and beaten (the field it typically AI Muscle Cars, with 1 to 3 non-muscle cars thrown in). But a Shelby Series 1 showed up and ran away. I see-sawed a little on pit stops, and then it looked like I might win when it went to take a last-minute pit stop, but either it had enough of a lead, or it just slowed down, beating me by 10 seconds after having led by about 30 at times. Funny thing about racing simulations. Losing is usually more fun than winning. Adrian.

D-pad and Circle and Triangle thereby end up never used, and the L and R buttons are designed so you can easily hit them while still controlling the joysticks. I map gear shifting to be the same hand. I.e. Left stick--steering Right stick--gas/brake X--not used (accelerator in digital mode) circle--reverse square--not used (brake in digital mode) triangle--change views R1--shift up R2--shift down L1--handbrake L2--look back to see the Shelby GT500 spinning off into the sand again (The AI was not quite finished for Enduros, or for races in general, except fot the "race-mod" (ground-effects) cars which are nearly excellent; the AI Oreca Viper in the "Gran Turismo World" Series is, um, awesome--too bad you have to fool around "winning" a couple of dozen races, mostly trivial, before you can enter that series). Adrian.

: You can usually walk away with the races in the "Historic Car" set of : races, unless a GT40 shows up. Thing is, no-one knows how to get a : GT40 qualified to enter some of those particular races. : At the Seattle 100 I had my 1970 Barracuda tuned so it could win : against the field a previous car (Monte Carlo Mini) had raced and : beaten (the field it typically AI Muscle Cars, with 1 to 3 non-muscle : cars thrown in). But a Shelby Series 1 showed up and ran away. I Depending on the "new improved" physics, one title I am looking forward to on the PC is the next Need for Speed (Motor City?) as your post hints at an AI version of what I am hoping this NFS offers. The next NFS should offer an "Internet community" where people can run what they bring with them to the table. You will be able to buy and trade cars and engines, I believe, then arrange pick-up races. If this works well, it might start something very good in the PC racing sim market. In a way, this already exists of course. With VROC, we can show up at a race with our own favourite '67 GP car, with our ultra-secret setup that is the key to our success, and have a great race. But what you describe from GT2 sounds just a little more interesting, as it offeres a more varied field, and the possibility to do some giant killing. Who wouldn't like a PC version of GT2 with full Internet support, and the possibility (however slim) to drive up to the virtual paddock of Laguna Seca with a Mini on the trailer and then proceed to dive under a Shelby GT350 going into the Corkscrew for a hard-earned win? Imagine being able to build a reputation. Imagine custom paint jobs that are automatically transferred at the start of the race. You look in the rear-view mirror and see the distinctive red and white Porsche Carrera RS of Bob hounding you and you start to sweat, because he has the reputation and people know it's not a matter of if, but when he will pass you. I'm crossing my fingers. Stephen

>In a way, this already exists of course. With VROC... Sort of. What's new about the upcoming NFS is that it has a persistent world stored on dedicated servers, like Everquest. That's a first in the racing genre. Joe McGinn _________________________ GA-Sports Writer http://www.ga-sports.com/

:>In a way, this already exists of course. With VROC... : Sort of. What's new about the upcoming NFS is that it has a persistent : world stored on dedicated servers, like Everquest. That's a first in : the racing genre. : Joe McGinn True. That's why I said "in a way". The persistent world in GPL has to exist in our heads... and judging by some of the posts here, I think that world is a little *too* real for some people :) I am quite interested in the NFS concept, especially the subsequent Porsche title. I've got my virtual name down for a 550 Spyder. Stephen

>The persistent world in GPL has to >exist in our heads... and judging by some of the posts here, I think that >world is a little *too* real for some people :) Heh heh, good point. The Porsche-Unleashed NFS does sound interesting too. Sounds like EA is FINALLY breaking out of the "plain jane circuit racer" rut they've been in since NFS 2. Hallelujah! Now if only they restore the physics model to it's former glory as well (as they are claiming to have done) it could be another great year for arcade racing fans. Joe McGinn _________________________ GA-Sports Writer http://www.ga-sports.com/

>What he says. Actually, I like the Interact UltraRacer hand-held PSX >wheel/controller that I bought for GT. Lately I've been playing GT2 >more than I ever played the original, and yes, I've noticed some "hand >cramp". Especially when I did one of the endurance races. I have one too , it's true. This controller would be great with a little more "ergonomics". It takes some getting use to. I guess GT2 doen't have sensitivity settings . Bummer. Agree , even with the negatives the handheld is the best choice for me. You can use the handheld on the couch , on the floor , standing on your head ect.

You wouldn't suggest that some people take GPL a *wee* bit too seriously, would you? ;-) -- Ken's Sig 3.01 "Who is the more foolish? The fool, or the fool who follows him?" - Obi-Wan Kenobi Go #43 and #44! volksy (at) yahoo (dot) com

I am totally jazzed about Motor City. It's another revolutionary step in the NFS series, and if it works out it'll be awesome. As fas as I can tell, EA's NFS series has been weak on the multiplayer aspects so far. Here's hoping that the usual result doesn't occur: a week after release, some self-important "hacker" figures out how to tweak his vehicle outside of the permitted boundaries and ruins it for everyone. I hope EA realized this and puts in tamperproof measures! --mK