Letter to Avault

Here is a copy of the letter I sent to Avault. I hope that anyone who disagrees with what was written takes the time to express their dissatisfaction with Bob Mandels poor effort at being a racing simulation reviewer. Dear Brian, After reading numerous bad reviews that were written by Bob Mandel regarding racing simulations that were posted on Avault I have come to the conclusion that Bob Mandel has no clue as to what a good simulation entails. It's perfectly obvious from his bio that his interest lies with arcade games and leads me to believe he has no real life experience in the real racing world. Do yourselves a favor and get someone that can do the job and do it properly. I have been involved with dirt track racing for over 20 years and can tell you that what Ratbag has done is to produce one of the most realistic physics engines to date. The cars handle and react as close to the real thing as has been released yet and Bob did a very poor job of letting the public know what they are missing. I sincerely hope you take this seriously and believe me when I tell you that you will probably loose many readers if this type of simulation review continues. I would suggest visiting some of the other sites that review racing simulations to see what I mean. [link lost in import] [link lost in import] www.3dgameforce.com/software/previews/dirttrack http://www.***-age.com/reviews/pc/dtr/ Michael K. Grandy Sr.

Hi Mike, Firstly, i am not trying to argue with you, or be an arsehole, as i respect your point of view, but i do disagree with your analaysis on the reality feeling/feedback of DTR. DTR feels as though i am not in control of the car.. To me, the cars in DTR, feel as though they are floating on a cushion of air, with no actual contact with the ground.. I am not saying that DTR is not fun for some guys etc, but the physics do not feel real to me either... The closest i have found to emulating a DTR saloon car on the computer, is a F2 car in GPL, run on a converted small Oval, like Pikes Peak, and setup for the loose side of neutral. I know that is not real either, but i am just giving you a understanding of what i class as a closer feel to real dirt track racing than what DTR gives me. I will add that i don't have a FF steering wheel, so maybe with a FF wheel it could be different.. I will eventually get a FF wheel, and when i do i will try it again and give you my impressions then. :) IMO, i find that even without FF, GPL on a oval translates the feeling to me that DTR should.. I have never read any of Bobs articles, nor do i bother with hardly any reviews of any sims/games on the internet, as i chose to use my own judgment. DTR, without a FF wheel, feels too detached from any input to me Mike.. Cheers, Ron Here is a copy of the letter I sent to Avault. I hope that anyone who disagrees with what was written takes the time to express their dissatisfaction with Bob Mandels poor effort at being a racing simulation reviewer. Dear Brian, After reading numerous bad reviews that were written by Bob Mandel regarding racing simulations that were posted on Avault I have come to the conclusion that Bob Mandel has no clue as to what a good simulation entails. It's perfectly obvious from his bio that his interest lies with arcade games and leads me to believe he has no real life experience in the real racing world. Do yourselves a favor and get someone that can do the job and do it properly. I have been involved with dirt track racing for over 20 years and can tell you that what Ratbag has done is to produce one of the most realistic physics engines to date. The cars handle and react as close to the real thing as has been released yet and Bob did a very poor job of letting the public know what they are missing. I sincerely hope you take this seriously and believe me when I tell you that you will probably loose many readers if this type of simulation review continues. I would suggest visiting some of the other sites that review racing simulations to see what I mean. [link lost in import] [link lost in import] www.3dgameforce.com/software/previews/dirttrack http://www.***-age.com/reviews/pc/dtr/ Michael K. Grandy Sr. ----------

Yes, but you have to like that felling of power these cars give you ;>)

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> Hi Mike, > Firstly, i am not trying to argue with you, or be an arsehole, as i > respect your point of view, but i do disagree with your analaysis on > the reality feeling/feedback of DTR. > DTR feels as though i am not in control of the car.. > To me, the cars in DTR, feel as though they are floating on a cushion > of air, with no actual contact with the ground.. > I am not saying that DTR is not fun for some guys etc, but the physics > do not feel real to me either... > The closest i have found to emulating a DTR saloon car on the computer, > is a F2 car in GPL, run on a converted small Oval, like Pikes Peak, and > setup for the loose side of neutral. > I know that is not real either, but i am just giving you a > understanding of what i class as a closer feel to real dirt track > racing than what DTR gives me. > I will add that i don't have a FF steering wheel, so maybe with a FF > wheel it could be different.. > I will eventually get a FF wheel, and when i do i will try it again and > give you my impressions then. :) > IMO, i find that even without FF, GPL on a oval translates the feeling > to me that DTR should.. > I have never read any of Bobs articles, nor do i bother with hardly any > reviews of any sims/games on the internet, as i chose to use my own > judgment. > DTR, without a FF wheel, feels too detached from any input to me Mike.. > Cheers, > Ron > Here is a copy of the letter I sent to Avault. I hope that anyone who > disagrees with what was written takes the time to express their > dissatisfaction with Bob Mandels poor effort at being a racing > simulation reviewer. > Dear Brian, > After reading numerous bad reviews that were written by Bob Mandel > regarding racing simulations that were posted on Avault I have come to > the conclusion that Bob Mandel has no clue as to what a good simulation > entails. It's perfectly obvious from his bio that his interest lies > with arcade games and leads me to believe he has no real life > experience in the real racing world. Do yourselves a favor and get > someone that can do the job and do it properly. I have been involved > with dirt track racing for over 20 years and can tell you that what > Ratbag has done is to produce one of the most realistic physics engines > to date. The cars handle and react as close to the real thing as has > been released yet and Bob did a very poor job of letting the public > know what they are missing. I sincerely hope you take this seriously > and believe me when I tell you that you will probably loose many > readers if this type of simulation review continues. I would suggest > visiting some of the other sites that review racing simulations to see > what I mean. > [link lost in import] > [link lost in import] > www.3dgameforce.com/software/previews/dirttrack > http://www.***-age.com/reviews/pc/dtr/ > Michael K. Grandy Sr. > ----------

LOL, Todd... for sure..!! I like most driving games, hopefully when i finally get a FF wheel i can appreciate a lot more diversity in my choices of sims... Cheers, Ron

I also feel that DTR handles strangely exactly like you say "FLOATING on air as you drive around the track). Its fun to drive but still it feels like im not in complete control of the car.

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> > Yes, but you have to like that felling of power these cars give you > ;>) > LOL, Todd... for sure..!! > I like most driving games, hopefully when i finally get a FF wheel i > can appreciate a lot more diversity in my choices of sims... > Cheers, > Ron

I tried DTR. Five minutes later, I deleted the demo. How can you say that this game feels real? It felt like I had about as much control as the first time I went roller blading. Maybe it's because the drivers were always high on pot and beer! Nice try, DTR blows. Here is a copy of the letter I sent to Avault. I hope that anyone who disagrees with what was written takes the time to express their dissatisfaction with Bob Mandels poor effort at being a racing simulation reviewer. Dear Brian, After reading numerous bad reviews that were written by Bob Mandel regarding racing simulations that were posted on Avault I have come to the conclusion that Bob Mandel has no clue as to what a good simulation entails. It's perfectly obvious from his bio that his interest lies with arcade games and leads me to believe he has no real life experience in the real racing world. Do yourselves a favor and get someone that can do the job and do it properly. I have been involved with dirt track racing for over 20 years and can tell you that what Ratbag has done is to produce one of the most realistic physics engines to date. The cars handle and react as close to the real thing as has been released yet and Bob did a very poor job of letting the public know what they are missing. I sincerely hope you take this seriously and believe me when I tell you that you will probably loose many readers if this type of simulation review continues. I would suggest visiting some of the other sites that review racing simulations to see what I mean. [link lost in import] [link lost in import] www.3dgameforce.com/software/previews/dirttrack http://www.***-age.com/reviews/pc/dtr/ Michael K. Grandy Sr.

Ahh, you tried the demo! Maybe, a lot of things weren't included in the demo, that made it to the end product. Pete

Have you ever raced on a dirt track? I have and I think DTR is quite realistic in the way the cars handle. It may not be perfect, but then no simulator to date is... Wayne Hutchison > I tried DTR. Five minutes later, I deleted the demo. How can you say that > this game feels real? It felt like I had about as much control as the first > time I went roller blading. Maybe it's because the drivers were always high

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> on pot and beer! Nice try, DTR blows. > Here is a copy of the letter I sent to Avault. I hope that anyone who > disagrees with what was written takes the time to express their > dissatisfaction with Bob Mandels poor effort at being a racing simulation > reviewer. > Dear Brian, > After reading numerous bad reviews that were written by Bob Mandel

regarding > racing simulations that were posted on Avault I have come to the conclusion > that Bob Mandel has no clue as to what a good simulation entails. It's > perfectly obvious from his bio that his interest lies with arcade games and > leads me to believe he has no real life experience in the real racing world. > Do yourselves a favor and get someone that can do the job and do it > properly. I have been involved with dirt track racing for over 20 years and > can tell you that what Ratbag has done is to produce one of the most > realistic physics engines to date. The cars handle and react as close to the > real thing as has been released yet and Bob did a very poor job of letting > the public know what they are missing. I sincerely hope you take this > seriously and believe me when I tell you that you will probably loose many > readers if this type of simulation review continues. I would suggest > visiting some of the other sites that review racing simulations to see what

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> I mean. > [link lost in import] > [link lost in import] > www.3dgameforce.com/software/previews/dirttrack > http://www.***-age.com/reviews/pc/dtr/ > Michael K. Grandy Sr.

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> Ahh, you tried the demo! Maybe, a lot of things weren't included >in the demo, that made it to the end product. > Pete >> I tried DTR. Five minutes later, I deleted the demo. How can you say that >> this game feels real? It felt like I had about as much control as the >first >> time I went roller blading. Maybe it's because the drivers were always >high >> on pot and beer! Nice try, DTR blows.

Ok, I'll jump in here. The demo is supposed to *demonstrate* the features of the finished product. Why the hell would ANY company put out a demo that turns people off of the product? Who cares what's in the final version? If 1000 people the demo, and it sucks, that's 1000 paying customers you may have lost... I haven't tried the DTR demo, but I tried the TOCA2 demo, and it hit me the same way - it sucked. Yes, I've heard people say that the retail version is better, but the demo kept me from buying it. Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Part of the problem was the ability to change the steering response in the demo. Because they didn't allow the setups to be modified. In the demo this was turned off with the settings. It did affect the way the car handled for some people in the demo. I couldn't have sucked too bad because from my understanding they have sold out the entire first production run. And have had to have more copies reprinted. Pete

snip > I couldn't have sucked too bad because from my understanding they > have sold out the entire first production run. And have had to have more > copies reprinted. That doesn't really matter here, does it? I'm sure, Psygnosis' F1 racer sold pretty good to the arcade crowd, but most here don't take sold numbers into account judging a racing game... l8er ronny

The majority of people that have bought the game like it! Just because a few don't doesn't mean it wasn't a good product for those that enjoyed it. You are not always going to please everyone. But then again we have those that look for any excuse to trash something that doesn't fit their perfect world! And in some cases they have to really reach to achieve their personal agenda. Pete > snip .

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> That doesn't really matter here, does it? I'm sure, Psygnosis' F1 racer > sold > pretty good to the arcade crowd, but most here don't take sold numbers > into > account judging a racing game... > l8er > ronny

> Part of the problem was the ability to change the steering response >in the demo. Because they didn't allow the setups to be modified. In the >demo this was turned off with the settings. It did affect the way the car >handled for some people in the demo. Why in the WORLD would they disable something so important to your impression of the game? That's just STUPID... Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Its called a sample, a taste of the graphics, sound and gameplay! If you want the full sim most people buy it! But then again there are those that would rather *** when they have no intention to ever purchase the game. Stupid, maybe. But you could wait for 4 or 5 months to get a demo from Papy after the game has been released. Their demo was 4 or 5 weeks ahead of the games release and thousands were enjoying it enough to buy it. Pete > > Part of the problem was the ability to change the steering response > >in the demo. Because they didn't allow the setups to be modified. In the > >demo this was turned off with the settings. It did affect the way the car > >handled for some people in the demo. > Why in the WORLD would they disable something so important to your impression

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> of the game? That's just STUPID... > Eldred > -- > Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 > Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats

you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

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> Its called a sample, a taste of the graphics, sound and >gameplay! If you want the full sim most people buy it! >But then again there are those that would rather *** >when they have no intention to ever purchase the game. > Stupid, maybe. But you could wait for 4 or 5 months >to get a demo from Papy after the game has been released. >Their demo was 4 or 5 weeks ahead of the games release >and thousands were enjoying it enough to buy it. > Pete >> > Part of the problem was the ability to change the steering response >> >in the demo. Because they didn't allow the setups to be modified. In the >> >demo this was turned off with the settings. It did affect the way the car >> >handled for some people in the demo. >> Why in the WORLD would they disable something so important to your >impression >> of the game? That's just STUPID...

Now wait a ***ing minute! The *gameplay* was what I was talking about! Because of the limited steering response, I don't think the demo was an accurate representation of the full game. And for your information, I have purchased 20-25 racing games, and have a whole bookshelf FULL of purchased games. Don't even *attempt* to guess my intentions...how the hell would YOU know? Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Whoa, are we touchy? Most people didn't complain, a few people did! The steering response wasn't limited, it was too sensitive for most that did complain. I was making a general statement, I never mentioned your own personal buying habits. If I hit a raw nerve, sorry! Nice language by the way very pithy! Pete

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> Whoa, are we touchy? Most people didn't complain, a few people did! >The steering response wasn't limited, it was too sensitive for most that did >complain. I was making a general statement, I never mentioned your own >personal buying habits. If I hit a raw nerve, sorry! > Nice language by the way very pithy! > Pete

Yeah, whatever. If one 'off-color' word out of maybe 100 posts I've made makes me Public Enemy #1, then so be it. Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Darn, I thought I was! :-) Pete

And exactly how would if know if I wanted the full game if I couldn't try the gameplay,as opposed to looking at the pretty pictures? -- Robert S?derberg If replying by mail,remove the word INGENSPAM from the adress.

If you had downloaded the demo, you would have got a very good feel for the game. Because setups weren't enabled this is equated to looking at pretty pictures? Strange retort indeed! Pete

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> And exactly how would if know if I wanted the full game > if I couldn't try the gameplay,as opposed to looking at the pretty > pictures? > -- > Robert S?derberg > If replying by mail,remove the word INGENSPAM from the adress.