off topic but related

I turned on the TV the other day and caught the last five minutes of a documentary on the discovery channel. I don't know the name of the show but it was about Monster Trucks. They even showed about 10 or more seconds of MS MTM. One of the drivers stated that MT racing is very competitive and believes that it is a true sport of it's own. He also said that it's unfortunate that the fans think it more of entertainment. He also mentioned something about looking in to a way to change that image. Be interesting to know more about how they are going to change that image because they are in the **exact** same boat we are. Sim racing is looked at as more of an entertainment then any kind of a sport to take seriously. -- ========================================= Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing? ========================================= http://members.xoom.com/BarlowRacing/ Racing online with the help of...... Race Communications Association Holodyne Engineering Mystic Music (have Your !!Name/Address!! placed here)

Yeah, interesting to hear they pull up to 10 or so G's each time they go make a run. Racer X Veteran Sim Racer Victory Lane- http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/1423/

Looks like Im not the only racing freak who watched TLC last night. I liked the whole "how to promote correctly an event" aspect of the show 8) -- -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Surely you jest! Sim Racing a sport, who are you trying to fool. If Sim Racing is a sport then surely you would then consider Checkers a sport also. Don't get me wrong, I love racing and flight sims but a "Sport" give me a break! Paul > image because they are in the **exact** same boat we are. Sim racing is > looked at as more of an entertainment then any kind of a sport to take > seriously. -- "Don't take yourself too serious since someone else just might and then what are you going to do!"

Target 12 <[email hidden]> wrote: : Yeah, interesting to hear they pull up to 10 or so G's each time they go make a : run. I imagine these are the accelerations measured on a hard landing, and therefore of extremely short duration. Monster truck racers have nothing on F1 drivers or fighter jocks. I can't imagine they launch with 10g. As for changing their image from entertainment to sport, perhaps a move away from trucks with skeletons modelled onto the front end. Oh, and ditch the guy in the snake mask... Stephen

Hi, >Don't get me wrong, I love racing and flight sims but a >"Sport" give me a break! Paul Have you ever driven GPL ? Im racing GPL in an LAN-League ( 19 Drivers ) with 100% Grand-Prix lenght and realistic Damage. Looking at the amount of training required to do well in this league i also would say, GPL is an Sport :-) But racing NFS3 is not an Sport :-) Greetings, Michael Staab -- Meine Grand Prix Legends Homepage: http://home.rhein-zeitung.de/~mstab/ Mitglied in der CAR, Verein f�r PC-Rennsimulationen http://www.car-ev.de/ Staabi's Mountain Bike Classics http://home.rhein-zeitung.de/~mstab/mtb/ " To race is to live, everything else is just waiting"

Michael Staab wrote:

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> > Hi, > > >Don't get me wrong, I love racing and flight sims but a > >"Sport" give me a break! Paul > > Have you ever driven GPL ? Im racing GPL in an LAN-League ( 19 Drivers ) > with 100% Grand-Prix lenght and realistic Damage. > Looking at the amount of training required to do well in this league i also > would say, GPL is an Sport :-) > > But racing NFS3 is not an Sport :-)

Just a bit of a correction.. GPL is not a sport, It's like saying a "Car" is a sport. "Online Racing" is a sport. -- ========================================= Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing� ========================================= http://members.xoom.com/BarlowRacing/ Racing online with the help of...... Race Communications Association Holodyne Engineering Mystic Music (have Your !!Name/Address!! placed here)

Michael Staab wrote: > > Have you ever driven GPL ?Yes! Im racing GPL in an LAN-League ( 19 Drivers ) > with 100% Grand-Prix lenght and realistic Damage. > Looking at the amount of training required to do well in this league i also > would say, GPL is an Sport :-) What about the guy who is playing checkers with the very best checker players in the world? Why is what you are doing any more difficult than playing checkers at the very highest level. Here is another thought, the checker player is not simulating anything, he is doing the real thing. > > But racing NFS3 is not an Sport :-)And just why not? I would wager that to be the very best NFS3 racer takes just as much time and skill as GPL! Being the best at anything takes tremendous amounts of time and dedication.

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> > Greetings, > > Michael Staab > -- > Meine Grand Prix Legends Homepage: http://home.rhein-zeitung.de/~mstab/ > Mitglied in der CAR, Verein f�r PC-Rennsimulationen http://www.car-ev.de/ > Staabi's Mountain Bike Classics http://home.rhein-zeitung.de/~mstab/mtb/ > " To race is to live, everything else is just waiting"

-- "Don't take yourself too serious since someone else just might and then what are you going to do!"

> > But racing NFS3 is not an Sport :-) > And just why not? I would wager that to be the very best NFS3 racer > takes just as much time and skill as GPL! Being the best at anything > takes tremendous amounts of time and dedication. I see what your saying, but no. It would not take as much to be the best at NFS, as it would to be the best at GPL. For one thing, your forgeting months of just learning to "drive" GPL, much less compete. I've seen this with my friends at work, they can compete with me at NFS in a matter of days, but they have never been able to compete with me at GPL (I really suck at GPL also).

Anyone who really believes this needs to take some time away from the computer, go out in the real world, and find out for themselves what constitutes 'sport'. I enjoy flight and racing sims, as well as other computer activities, but I am also involved in fly fishing and hunting. The difference between an activity (computer sims) and a sport is the amoun of physical effort and endurance requied to participate. In other words, playing tennis is a sport, but playing tennis on a computer is an activity. I also tie my own flies and shoot pistols regularly at a local range. IMO, these are both activities, not sports. Both require considerable skill, (like sims), but very little physical activity. (also like sims) I know I'll get a lot of disagreement on this, but I would ask those who ***ly disagree, to try any kind of real sport so you can see the difference for yourselves. George Adams "From the rockin' of the cradle to the rollin' of the hearse, the goin' up was worth the comin' down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/ Chapter 33"

:>From: "Michael Staab" :>Looking at the amount of training required to do well in this league i also :>would say, GPL is an Sport :-) :> : Anyone who really believes this needs to take some time away from the computer, : go out in the real world, and find out for themselves what constitutes 'sport'. : I enjoy flight and racing sims, as well as other computer activities, but I am : also involved in fly fishing and hunting. The difference between an activity : (computer sims) and a sport is the amoun of physical effort and endurance : requied to participate. : In other words, playing tennis is a sport, but playing tennis on a computer is : an activity. I also tie my own flies and shoot pistols regularly at a local : range. IMO, these are both activities, not sports. Both require considerable : skill, (like sims), but very little physical activity. (also like sims) I agree with you 100%. I always separated a "skill" from a "sport". I must admit I disagree with the IOC on several of their "sports", for example pistol shooting. As you have said, it is a very demanding "skill" to acquire and perfect. Now, throw that pistol or rifle on the back of a cross-country skier and make them do 25km in some god-forsaken corner of Finland, and you have a sport (or you're a ***). I spend many hours perfecting my laps on GPL etc. It's no sport. I spend many more hours perfecting my high-speed crashing technique on a mountain bike in the summer and a snowboard in the winter. Those are sports. My simple definition, the one that draws the line between the two, is the simple matter of energy expenditure. If I'm breathing hard, sweating, and my pulse is over 140, then it's a sport. Oh wait, that happens all the time at the start of Spa. But seriously, a little adrenaline induced spike in pulse does not make it a sport. Stephen

Hi, 'sport'. as an Mountainbiker, who in the past did marathon races and also competed in the Downhill-World-Cup Race in Kaprun in 1993 / 1994, i know the world of real world sports. And again, I train as much GPL now to be competive in our league than i did train on the bike 5 Years ago. ( Now I'm riding my mountainbike once a week and another bike every day for half an hour to commute to work ). So again, i think, looking at the skill required to be competive in GPL and that the skill belongs very much to how often and how long you drive GPL ) I would say, GPL is some kind of Motorsport. Greetings, Michael Staab -- Meine Grand Prix Legends Homepage: http://home.rhein-zeitung.de/~mstab/ Mitglied in der CAR, Verein fr PC-Rennsimulationen http://www.car-ev.de/ Staabi's Mountain Bike Classics http://home.rhein-zeitung.de/~mstab/mtb/ " To race is to live, everything else is just waiting"

: as an Mountainbiker, who in the past did marathon races and also competed in : the Downhill-World-Cup Race in Kaprun in 1993 / 1994, i know the world of : real world sports. And again, I train as much GPL now to be competive in our And you were competing in a sport then, whereas with GPL... : So again, i think, looking at the skill required to be competive in GPL : and that the skill belongs very much to how often and how long you drive : GPL ) I would say, GPL is some kind of Motorsport. It's not a sport, it's a highly developed skill set. Thousands of hours of Asteroids made some kids in my class (we're going way back here) into some sort of phenomenal automaton, with hand-eye coordination and reflexes that were a level above others. But arcade games are not sports. A watchmaker needs hours of work, each and every day, to hone and maintain his craft, but watchmaking is not a sport. A musician (for the most part) needs hours of practice per day to play at world-class level, but chamber musicians are not athletes. (All my opinion, of course) Stephen

: Staabi's Mountain Bike Classics http://home.rhein-zeitung.de/~mstab/mtb/ Johnny T on drop bars... classic stuff. I had the pleasure of meeting Tomac at the world cup in Klosters many years back. Nice guy. Stephen

>I would say, GPL is some kind of Motorsport. Where exactly is the MOTOR located on your PC? ~daxe -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==---------- http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World! ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----

> : as an Mountainbiker, who in the past did marathon races and also competed in > : the Downhill-World-Cup Race in Kaprun in 1993 / 1994, i know the world of > : real world sports. And again, I train as much GPL now to be competive in our > And you were competing in a sport then, whereas with GPL... ^^^^^^^^^ Here we go. One aspect in sports is competition, another is the physical effort one has to put into it. And I (and some will certainly disagree) would also take the mental effort necessary into consideration. IMHO its impossible to draw a border where a "set of skills" becomes a "sport". Take e.g. long distance running, cross country skiing or cycling. While it is obvious that great conditioning is the basis for performing well, the mental ability to "never give up" etc is just as important. Another example is ski jumping (I know that for some people this is beyond what they would call a "sport"). It is almost purely a head game, where focusing at the one ten second attempt is all important. I know, i have done it. Next one is table tennis. Like in ski jumping, physical conditioning is part of it, but more so hand-eye-coordination. And the last example is chess. A pure game of mind. (Almost) no phyiscal skill required whatsover (I know that a four hour match is also phyiscally exhausting, I've done that too). Yet I would call it (at the very highest level, at least) a sport, due to the _heavy_ competition. Same with "Go". And what about table tennis? Another aspect of sport is that it is basically "useless" or "unproductive". (ok before you start flaming, the german word i would use in this context is "zweckfrei", which i am not able to translate in its entire meaning. My dictionary says "pure", but that doesn't get it). So jobs are not sports (whereas sports can be jobs, just ask Michael $chumacher). Nor is "art". And this is the point where we are entirely offtopic, aren't we?:) Ditto. Regards, Andreas -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Worueber man nicht reden kann, darueber muss man schweigen."(Wittgenstein) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Its in the fan that cools my CPU ;) -- Ian Parker UKGPL League http://members.xoom.com/ukgpl/index.html http://www.ukgpl.com -- > >I would say, GPL is some kind of Motorsport. > Where exactly is the MOTOR located on your PC? > ~daxe

: Another aspect of sport is that it is basically "useless" or "unproductive". (ok before you start flaming, the : german word i would use in this context is "zweckfrei", which i am not able to translate in its entire meaning. My : dictionary says "pure", but that doesn't get it). Without a purpose or goal. We use the word "pure" to describe research that is not driven by any particular purpose. By the way, I accept all your points. My own "personal" definition of sport combines the head game with a considerable amount of skill *and* physical effort. Otherwise it's a game, which can also be very competitive. A list based on my own personal criteria would be: sport: nordic skiing, runing, rugby, mountain biking, 505 sailing, real-world car racing game: chess, shooting, archery, golf, GPL just a small representative list of my opinion Stephen