SCGT vs GPL vs RC2000

By no means an in depth review, but just an impression. Who am I? Fair to middling sim racer, dabbles a few hours per week max with these, never posted a hot lap in my life, although way back in '94 my friend and I managed a mid-pack performance in a GP1 offline league (yay, the peak of my acheivement :) Very little patience for games with questionable implementation of Newton's basic theories. I've been playing GPL for about two months now. I can lap consistently, and finish in the top ten in AI races. My best Glen time is about 1:08, so again, nothing brilliant, but enough to have fun, and also enough to have come to grips with the difficulty of this game. I started it up last night and just drove laps of the Ring in a Ferrari. The overall impressions of the game were the same as ever - lovely sound, fairly lush graphics (I like the pastel pallette somehow), runs reasonably well on the old PII300 - Voodoo II, fabulous 3D***pit. The driving was, as ever, a challenge. Concentration required all the time. I've still a long way to go to figure out the Ring. After an hour I was ready for a break. Installed Rally Championship (hey, is that discipline or what, playing a whole hour of GPL before trying the newest thing). Lovely graphics (I will reserve the title photo-realistic for the games that will be along in another 3 years or so; there is no mistaking the in-game graphics for what they are - in-game graphics). Rather choppy on my "low end" (erk) system. Sounds were acceptable, although the backfire was a bit much after a while (as someone else said, it sounds like a bowling ball loose in the back of the car). Oh, I found the menus to be a bit tedious, especially when it came to tweaking the controller (more later). The game does an excellent job of capturing many aspects of rally racing, and rural Britain. The roads are the proper width (i.e. unbelievably narrow), the fear factor is there when storming along in 6th gear on loose gravel, and the absolute dependence on pace notes is spot on. I played around with driving views. Overall I would love to use the middle in-car view (for a better positional awareness than the driver's side view), but the frame rate bogged down. I tried the bumper cam, but almost made myself sick, partly from the crazy steering inputs. I ended up switching between the near chase when I wanted to drive cleanly, and the view on the bonnet when I felt guilty for not being true to my sim-driver roots. Sadly, my first experience with the game lasted only 30 minutes. I must have been out to the menu screen a dozen times (and how many levels down does one have to go... still, I can see the point of allowing each player to set their own controller preferences, but one thing I couldn't figure out - I have the German release - was whether or not one can actually save different player profiles, as in GPL). I tried all sorts of different dead zone settings and never hit on something I liked. Either it was on-off steering, or it was nothing, followed by over-corrections. I'm sure eventually I will get the hang of it, but my initial impression was frustrating. Overall I found the driving physics to be not as loathsome as some might say, but certainly not as brilliant as others feel they are. Yes, the brakes are too strong. Yes, the car feels a touch light, but this just gives me a better feel that I am driving a rally car - these things are always "light". I destroyed my poor Golf, so I think the damage modelling is adequate to make the game a challenge, while making concessions to overall playability. But the steering ruins it for me. By the way, I just looked at the movies for Rally Masters, and they look promising... finally, I dug out SCGT. I had written it off long ago, but finally discovered the various patches for it. I re-installed, bumped the physics to realistic, got rid of the sticky grass, and had a blast. I was still driving at 1:00am. The driving itself may not be the same level of challenge as GPL, and I will keep that on my HD for precisely that challenge, and because the model itself fascinates me as a mechanical engineer, but SCGT is IMHO, much more "fun" than GPL. The racing can be quite furious, with a larger window for error, allowing more satisfying one-in-a-hundred passes. The same could be said for TOCA etc, but the physics model in SCGT is just more convincing than TOCA, NASCAR, GP2 etc. With the seemingly exponential expansion of add-ons for SCGT, this looks to be one that has come back from the depths of my rubbish bin to catch a large amount of my time. I'm already looking forward to running some old Lotus Cortinas with the 60s physics model (imagine, some other weirdo out there in sim land sees the beauty of the old Cortina, and even makes the effort to model one!). So, the way it stands now for this average racer is that my hard drive has been purged of old, dusty copies of NASCAR, ICR2, GP2 etc. All that's left is GPL an SCGT. I will give RC2000 another week of attention to see if I can get around the crazy steering. For an almost ***ic challenge, I will continue to race GPL, but I don't know if my job, social life or skiing passion will allow me to ever reach the levels of a some of the others on this group, and it seems until one reaches that level, GPL will never become a passion. SCGT looks to be taking up more of my time in the future. Rambling over. Stephen

Stephen, thanks for the great review! This is exactly the type of thing I'm interested in reading! I consider myself on par (perhaps even less so) a sim driver as yourself, and with about the same level of interest, so hearing your thoughts on RC2000 I felt myself saying some of the same things (although I've only played the demo2) about it's frustrating driveability. I'm less interested in how accurate RC2000 models a REAL rally car, how light it is, and so forth, as I am interested in how driveable the game is, and how much fun or how frustrating it is. Please let me know what you think of this game/sim after you've given it another week, as you said. Thanks again! Jay J

Interesting rambling Steve. I haven't tried SCGT yet, I'm tempted, but as you know computers in general take up enough time as it is. Have you tried Viper Racing ? I was totally into it for a while and rank it second to GPL in those that I've tried. I'm curious as to how you'd rate it compared to SCGT. -- Don Scurlock Vancouver,B.C.

The main difference I feel between SCGT and Viper are the FF effects and the AI behaivior. Viper covers these areas very well, but with limited tracks and only a few other Vipers to race against, you kinda get an empty feeling track. SCGT is like a giant USED CAR LOT. guys are pumping out Trans Am, CART CHAMP CARS(who needs CART Racing 2?), Touring cars, Open top WSC prototypes, plus hundreds of proper sports cars. The AI behavior can be very frustrating, they tend to wreck and weave way to much. Many folks wrote off the initial version of SCGT. But with the reality options editor, the official patch update, and the unoffical 3rd party enhancements, SCGT becomes this HARD DRIVE CONSUMING car show. Feel like running front wheel drive V8 aussie Touring cars?? No problem. Then you can switch to rear drive LeMans Prototypes, or Open Wheel Champ cars. the variety is astounding. The American Road Racers are happy cuz Road Atlanta is included, and the Brits like Donnington(nobody likes the oval/infield combo at Las Vegas:>) Mosport has an incredibly bumpy hairpin. But one thing I've noticed in the higer powered cars. They fly too much. At Road Atlanta I have to alter my line just before the start finish line or You'll fly almost to the pits. At Mosport just after turn one, you have a little left hander with a drop off...Hello Mission Control...we have lift-off! As far as FF effects, I can't comment on Viper since I didn't have my wheel back then, but with SCGT the effects are somewhat muted. The curbs and contact make effects but you really have to overdrive a section to feel on track feedback.(Try the esses at RA,,,once the front end reaches it's limit the wheel will complain properly.) But thats about the extent of the SCGT FF effects. I got SCGT for $19 bucks, well worth it..I have been looking for a discounted Viper package but they seem to have disappeared. While neither approaches GPL in pure driving, they both can be 'funner' than gpl. seeya! dave henrie

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> Interesting rambling Steve. I haven't tried SCGT yet, I'm tempted, > but as you know computers in general take up enough time as it is. > Have you tried Viper Racing ? I was totally into it for a while and rank > it second to GPL in those that I've tried. I'm curious as to how > you'd rate it compared to SCGT. > -- > Don Scurlock > Vancouver,B.C.

<snip> Aaaaaaaaaaaah! Aussie V8 Touring cars are most definitely all rear wheel drive. The yanks might be almost completely FWD these days, but Australia still tends to prefer RWD. - Peter Kalgoorlie, Western Australia.

: Interesting rambling Steve. I haven't tried SCGT yet, I'm tempted, : but as you know computers in general take up enough time as it is. : Have you tried Viper Racing ? I was totally into it for a while and rank : it second to GPL in those that I've tried. I'm curious as to how : you'd rate it compared to SCGT. I liked the demo, and especially liked the physics model. I'd say it falls between SCGT and GPL. I also liked the neat little touches, like the X-ray view. (hey, I'm a mech eng - I love suspensions). But in the end, given the choice between running Vipers (not my favourite car by a long shot) on fantasy courses, or running real tracks in real cars (with lots on the way, as the editing community for SCGT is exploding), I would choose SCGT. I qualify this by acknowledging I'm trading away some realism for fun. SCGT reminds me a lot of Gran Turismo on the Playstation. Sort of a light sim, but quite ***ive. Stephen

OK, I'll admit it. The ***y game sucked me in. Just like a lot of people said it would. I promised to give it another week, and it only took another day. *BUT*, I still find the steering dodgy. There, I said it. No one can blame me for not giving an objective review. I fiddled with steering sensitivity, deadzones etc. and have a setting that is almost acceptable. Mind you, it still jumps around like a five year old on Cocoa Puffs, but I can control it. But anyway, I gave the game a much more thorough play last night, and I'm rather hooked. My initial impression of the graphics was based on some of the more repetitive, bland stages. Once you get into the woods, with sunlight streaming through the trees, then the game's graphics shine (pardon the pun). I also learned to slow down to go faster, and by the end of the night was keeping it on the road 95% of the time. In some ways, the game is now more satisfying than GPL (ooh, I'm gonna' get crucified for that) because I have the feeling that, if I***up a corner, it is either because I mis-read it, or made a colossal error in driving, rather than just a slight twitch at the wrong time on the wheel. I like this forgiving nature in a rally sim, and it feels more realistic. I like the choice of cars, but would like to hear a few more engine sounds. I spent a lot of time driving the Micra, of all things, and kept thinking "Mini Cooper" as I weaved this little gem through the twisties. It's not fast, but it's somehow satisfying. Of course, the grin didn't last long, as I often was scaring my pants off over blind crests. This sim has about 100 times as many "popcorn tossing" moments than GPL. Sure, the 'Ring has its share of gotchas, but there are about fif*** gotchas on each stage. For a change, I turned off the map and co-driver, and treated the game as one big illegal jaunt through the countryside. Mr. Toad's wild ride it was. What a hoot. Much more fun than a "Need for Speed" title for simulating such backroad hijinks. A few more downers: you'll want to upgrade. I refuse to believe the average consumer has a PIII-500 or Athlon. On my lowly PII-300 I can forget about all first-person views except the bumper cam, which is a shame because the raindrops are nice. Having said that, the frame rate is solid from the bumper cam. Unless you have a mega-system, forget about two-player or arcade mode, but this doesn't really bother me, because that's not what rally is about. The menus are tedious at times. But overall, I'm happy to keep it. It has its flaws, but the rewards seem to compensate. The early morning stages alone are worth the price of admission. If you try it, and find yourself ready to toss it out after ten minutes with the comment "what the *** is wrong with the steering?", I would recommend you persevere and find a half-way driveable setup, because eventually the good parts of this title will shine through and you'll (almost) forget the crazy controls and just get down to the business of trying to keep 1000kg of frantic motorcar on the road. Stephen p.s. and who hasn't slid down the banking into a stream, never to return again? That was a nice touch.

Dang! Thanks for the put right. Here I "thought" I had to use the Advanced options editor to slam all the cars into frontwheel drive. Well well...So Aussie V9 Tourers are just 4 door American Trans Am cars... Ya learn sumpthin every day. Thanks again dave henrie

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> <snip> > > Feel like running front wheel drive V8 aussie Touring cars?? No problem. > Aaaaaaaaaaaah! Aussie V8 Touring cars are most definitely all rear wheel > drive. The yanks might be almost completely FWD these days, but Australia > still tends to prefer RWD. > - Peter > Kalgoorlie, Western Australia.

Stephen, I've been running GPL online since just about the beginning of VROC and I'm still hooked. But I also run a Nascar3 league. When I need a break,and just want to have some racin' fun,I pull out my SCGT CD and run the Trans-Am cars. I find them to be the most fun in terms of racing,even better than the GT-1s. Joel Willstein

After racing in various sports cars in SCGT I was thinking if only someone could make a BATHURST track for SCGT if would be top's. GP2 with the BATHURST track is not bad but SCGT would be better. Pulling 300 to 320kms down conrod straight in a Porsche would be the best buzz. Best tin top track in the world!!!!!!!!!