RC2K - Sim / Arcade / GAME!!!

OK, I bought RC2k (alias Mobil Rally Championship) in the UK because I thought the Demo looked georgous, and by turning up the low-sensitivity zone on my MSFF profile setup, it handled quite nicely. Backgroud - I have GPL, and played in for 10 - 12 months loving it - but got bored after that time because it's not as fun as I used to find it - the physics model is all well and good - infact it's very good - but I'm sick of loosing races because of locking up wheels going into Parabolica. I also have TOCA 2 - which I love - it's quality entertainment. I know people claim the FWD Physics is questionable - who cares, it's damned close, entertaining racing on circuits that I've been too, and know well - I love it. Surely the point is entertainment. All these titles, along with SCGT, Viper Racing, Grand Touring (is Grand Touring any good - saw it for 10 - might buy!) and so on - THEY'RE GAMES...forget Sim / Arcade - they're GAMES...written to SELL. They sell because they're ENTERTAINING for the common man / woman. Hence, games like CMR, TOCA / TOCA 2, GP2, sold like hotcakes (very well) because they're entertaining titles with accesable racing performance. GPL missed out because it's too damned difficult for most people. I've introduced GPL to many people, given them a go on my respectable machine (P3-500, 128 Mb Ram, 16Mb Voodoo Banshee, MSFF) but most of them can't get half way around Spa without spinning off, screaming, and then saying "F**K it - let's play TOCA 2" GPL isn't fun to the average person. It's a pseudo-*** that some people desire that lets them enjoy GPL. So - in search of something different - I took the plunge with Rally Championship. That was 2 days ago, and I've slept a total of 2 hours since! YES - it's not ultra-real physics...nothing is. It's a game. It looks amazing - stage two on the Welsh rally has the best lighting effects I have EVER seen, be it in-game or front end graphics. It's a GAME. The damage model is fine for me. Frankly, when I'm stonking toward a gate at 120 mph in my Megane, and a bump in the road pushes me straigh into the right hand gate post - I don't want to be kicked out the rally classified dead. Anyone here who's completed the Welsh Rally with all 6 (or 7 in the Megane, my fav. car) gears stil working is either Bullshitting, or Cheating. The damage model is VERY effective in the long term. Strugling thru the dark snowy stages, with lights that keep flickering, a gearbox that keeps jumping out of gears - when you've already lost 2nd and 3rd. THEN I lost a wheel - Lucky for me, I had a good first 5 stages - and finished it 6th. That was SOOOO entertaining. WHAT A GAME!! Get it!?!? It's about entertainment - which for most people is what GPL is not. So - can we all stop this shitty Sim / Arcade thing - it's GAMES we're playing...GPL - is a GAME that has physics that are difficult to handle - it's not a SIM. A sim is a big box on 6 axis hydraulics called a '747 training simulator' and costs several million pounds. An arcade is something you go down the mall / motorway service station to play. A game is something you shove in your CD-ROM drive / Playstation / N64 / Dreamcast / Mac(!?!) etc... and Play.... SHIT _ that's a long one. Doug

Spot On - Could not have put it better (I love GPL too but I realise that to become truly good at it, I may have to give up my social life) Regards Mike On Wed, 24 Nov 1999 12:01:33 +0000, Douglas Ellison

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>OK, I bought RC2k (alias Mobil Rally Championship) in the UK because I >thought the Demo looked georgous, and by turning up the low-sensitivity >zone on my MSFF profile setup, it handled quite nicely. >Backgroud - I have GPL, and played in for 10 - 12 months loving it - but >got bored after that time because it's not as fun as I used to find it - >the physics model is all well and good - infact it's very good - but I'm >sick of loosing races because of locking up wheels going into >Parabolica. I also have TOCA 2 - which I love - it's quality >entertainment. I know people claim the FWD Physics is questionable - who >cares, it's damned close, entertaining racing on circuits that I've been >too, and know well - I love it. >Surely the point is entertainment. All these titles, along with SCGT, >Viper Racing, Grand Touring (is Grand Touring any good - saw it for 10 >- might buy!) and so on - THEY'RE GAMES...forget Sim / Arcade - they're >GAMES...written to SELL. They sell because they're ENTERTAINING for the >common man / woman. >Hence, games like CMR, TOCA / TOCA 2, GP2, sold like hotcakes (very >well) because they're entertaining titles with accesable racing >performance. GPL missed out because it's too damned difficult for most >people. I've introduced GPL to many people, given them a go on my >respectable machine (P3-500, 128 Mb Ram, 16Mb Voodoo Banshee, MSFF) but >most of them can't get half way around Spa without spinning off, >screaming, and then saying "F**K it - let's play TOCA 2" >GPL isn't fun to the average person. It's a pseudo-*** that some >people desire that lets them enjoy GPL. >So - in search of something different - I took the plunge with Rally >Championship. That was 2 days ago, and I've slept a total of 2 hours >since! >YES - it's not ultra-real physics...nothing is. It's a game. It looks >amazing - stage two on the Welsh rally has the best lighting effects I >have EVER seen, be it in-game or front end graphics. It's a GAME. The >damage model is fine for me. Frankly, when I'm stonking toward a gate at >120 mph in my Megane, and a bump in the road pushes me straigh into the >right hand gate post - I don't want to be kicked out the rally >classified dead. Anyone here who's completed the Welsh Rally with all 6 >(or 7 in the Megane, my fav. car) gears stil working is either >Bullshitting, or Cheating. The damage model is VERY effective in the >long term. Strugling thru the dark snowy stages, with lights that keep >flickering, a gearbox that keeps jumping out of gears - when you've >already lost 2nd and 3rd. THEN I lost a wheel - Lucky for me, I had a >good first 5 stages - and finished it 6th. That was SOOOO >entertaining. WHAT A GAME!! >Get it!?!? It's about entertainment - which for most people is what GPL >is not. >So - can we all stop this shitty Sim / Arcade thing - it's GAMES we're >playing...GPL - is a GAME that has physics that are difficult to handle >- it's not a SIM. A sim is a big box on 6 axis hydraulics called a '747 >training simulator' and costs several million pounds. An arcade is >something you go down the mall / motorway service station to play. A >game is something you shove in your CD-ROM drive / Playstation / N64 / >Dreamcast / Mac(!?!) etc... and Play.... >SHIT _ that's a long one. >Doug

Don't Sorry for you but I've just completed the welsh rally in 2nd position with all gears functioning. It's all about control, I like the game, but I will be bored within some weeks. YES - it's not ultra-real physics...nothing is. It's a game. It looks amazing - stage two on the Welsh rally has the best lighting effects I have EVER seen, be it in-game or front end graphics. It's a GAME. The damage model is fine for me. Frankly, when I'm stonking toward a gate at 120 mph in my Megane, and a bump in the road pushes me straigh into the right hand gate post - I don't want to be kicked out the rally classified dead. Anyone here who's completed the Welsh Rally with all 6 (or 7 in the Megane, my fav. car) gears stil working is either Bullshitting, or Cheating. The damage model is VERY effective in the long term. Strugling thru the dark snowy stages, with lights that keep flickering, a gearbox that keeps jumping out of gears - when you've already lost 2nd and 3rd. THEN I lost a wheel - Lucky for me, I had a good first 5 stages - and finished it 6th. That was SOOOO entertaining. WHAT A GAME!! Get it!?!? It's about entertainment - which for most people is what GPL is not. When something is based on a very realistic physics model and works just like the real thing it's a sim. So - can we all stop this shitty Sim / Arcade thing - it's GAMES we're playing...GPL - is a GAME that has physics that are difficult to handle - it's not a SIM. A sim is a big box on 6 axis hydraulics called a '747 training simulator' and costs several million pounds. An arcade is something you go down the mall / motorway service station to play. A game is something you shove in your CD-ROM drive / Playstation / N64 / Dreamcast / Mac(!?!) etc... and Play.... SHIT _ that's a long one. Doug

Thumbs up! Jeroen

Douglas, you must have read my mind - great piece of writing. PJ >Thumbs up! >Jeroen

Here here. OK, I bought RC2k (alias Mobil Rally Championship) in the UK because I thought the Demo looked georgous, and by turning up the low-sensitivity zone on my MSFF profile setup, it handled quite nicely. Backgroud - I have GPL, and played in for 10 - 12 months loving it - but got bored after that time because it's not as fun as I used to find it - the physics model is all well and good - infact it's very good - but I'm sick of loosing races because of locking up wheels going into Parabolica. I also have TOCA 2 - which I love - it's quality entertainment. I know people claim the FWD Physics is questionable - who cares, it's damned close, entertaining racing on circuits that I've been too, and know well - I love it. Surely the point is entertainment. All these titles, along with SCGT, Viper Racing, Grand Touring (is Grand Touring any good - saw it for 10 - might buy!) and so on - THEY'RE GAMES...forget Sim / Arcade - they're GAMES...written to SELL. They sell because they're ENTERTAINING for the common man / woman. Hence, games like CMR, TOCA / TOCA 2, GP2, sold like hotcakes (very well) because they're entertaining titles with accesable racing performance. GPL missed out because it's too damned difficult for most people. I've introduced GPL to many people, given them a go on my respectable machine (P3-500, 128 Mb Ram, 16Mb Voodoo Banshee, MSFF) but most of them can't get half way around Spa without spinning off, screaming, and then saying "F**K it - let's play TOCA 2" GPL isn't fun to the average person. It's a pseudo-*** that some people desire that lets them enjoy GPL. So - in search of something different - I took the plunge with Rally Championship. That was 2 days ago, and I've slept a total of 2 hours since! YES - it's not ultra-real physics...nothing is. It's a game. It looks amazing - stage two on the Welsh rally has the best lighting effects I have EVER seen, be it in-game or front end graphics. It's a GAME. The damage model is fine for me. Frankly, when I'm stonking toward a gate at 120 mph in my Megane, and a bump in the road pushes me straigh into the right hand gate post - I don't want to be kicked out the rally classified dead. Anyone here who's completed the Welsh Rally with all 6 (or 7 in the Megane, my fav. car) gears stil working is either Bullshitting, or Cheating. The damage model is VERY effective in the long term. Strugling thru the dark snowy stages, with lights that keep flickering, a gearbox that keeps jumping out of gears - when you've already lost 2nd and 3rd. THEN I lost a wheel - Lucky for me, I had a good first 5 stages - and finished it 6th. That was SOOOO entertaining. WHAT A GAME!! Get it!?!? It's about entertainment - which for most people is what GPL is not. So - can we all stop this shitty Sim / Arcade thing - it's GAMES we're playing...GPL - is a GAME that has physics that are difficult to handle - it's not a SIM. A sim is a big box on 6 axis hydraulics called a '747 training simulator' and costs several million pounds. An arcade is something you go down the mall / motorway service station to play. A game is something you shove in your CD-ROM drive / Playstation / N64 / Dreamcast / Mac(!?!) etc... and Play.... SHIT _ that's a long one. Doug

On my second try at the a7 championship, I got 3 firsts, two 2nds and a 6th :) I won the championship :) I did lose a wheel on the last stage of the pirelli rally, but other than that, my car allways got to the end :) Even if I did barrel roll it once or twice :o) Ian

Damn! You're good... Anyone else allready won the championship? It will take a long time of practice for me to even finish a rally... Andre

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> >right hand gate post - I don't want to be kicked out the rally > >classified dead. Anyone here who's completed the Welsh Rally with all 6 > >(or 7 in the Megane, my fav. car) gears stil working is either > >Bullshitting, or Cheating. The damage model is VERY effective in the > On my second try at the a7 championship, I got 3 firsts, two 2nds and > a 6th :) I won the championship :)

First of all don't get me wrong: I don't have R2k (yet)! But: If you're already able to become 1st within a couple of sessions doesn't that mean that the game will become boring after a couple of weeks. Sorry for the comparison (again): I've played GPL (yeah it's that one again) for half a year now and still am not able to beat this f$%#$ing AC (Artificial Clark)!!! Admitted the game is (very) hard but isn't that the reason we keep on raving on it? I'm afraid RC2000 won't last that long if it's that easy to beat the AI. Just my $0.02 though. Jan.

Jan, believe me, it's NOT easy to win in RC2000! I was really amazed that Ian allready succeeded in this. First of all, it's quite hard to match to AI times, but then you have to do so without damaging the car too much. At the moment this seems rather impossible to me. After 2 tracks you have 15 minutes to repair your damage. I need at least 3 hours to repair all my damage :) You can drive on with some parts damaged, but if you break a part in your next rally, you won't pass for the next rally. I was very happy to see that rc2000 is so difficult. CMR is quite easy, so was Toca 2, these games, allthough fun to drive, weren't exactly a challenge to win. But it'll take quite some time before I'll win my first rc2000 championship! Andre On Thu, 25 Nov 1999 10:17:20 +0100, Jan Hovius

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>> >right hand gate post - I don't want to be kicked out the rally >> >classified dead. Anyone here who's completed the Welsh Rally with all 6 >> >(or 7 in the Megane, my fav. car) gears stil working is either >> >Bullshitting, or Cheating. The damage model is VERY effective in the >> On my second try at the a7 championship, I got 3 firsts, two 2nds and >> a 6th :) I won the championship :) >First of all don't get me wrong: I don't have R2k (yet)! >But: If you're already able to become 1st within a couple of sessions doesn't >that mean that the game will become boring after a couple of weeks. >Sorry for the comparison (again): I've played GPL (yeah it's that one again) >for half a year now and still am not able to beat this f$%#$ing AC (Artificial >Clark)!!! Admitted the game is (very) hard but isn't that the reason we keep >on raving on it? I'm afraid RC2000 won't last that long if it's that easy to >beat the AI. >Just my $0.02 though. >Jan.

> On my second try at the a7 championship, I got 3 firsts, two 2nds and > a 6th :) I won the championship :) > I did lose a wheel on the last stage of the pirelli rally, but other > than that, my car allways got to the end :) Even if I did barrel roll > it once or twice :o) Ok then, you ARE the greatest sim driver in here :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy

>First of all don't get me wrong: I don't have R2k (yet)! >But: If you're already able to become 1st within a couple of sessions doesn't >that mean that the game will become boring after a couple of weeks. No, most people will not win it so quickly. I practiced until I felt I had a handle on the car, then started a full rally. First leg, didn't crash, but was still two minutes off the pace! Practiced some more, flet much faster, started another rally. Still 1:20 off! I'm sure many people will be thrilled to know I only mentioned GPL in passing in my upcoming review. ;-) Joe McGinn _________________________ GA-Sports Writer http://www.ga-sports.com/

best post of the year Douglas :) McKafre None Of Your Business escribi en mensaje

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>Good post Douglas >>OK, I bought RC2k (alias Mobil Rally Championship) in the UK because I >>thought the Demo looked georgous, and by turning up the low-sensitivity >>zone on my MSFF profile setup, it handled quite nicely. >[...]

<snip> <snip> To each their own. However, just because something is difficult doesn't mean it isn't fun. To me there is more of a sense of achievement when becoming good at a game that at first play would seem almost impossible to do so. That's where the longevity comes in. If I play something that I can immediately do well at, without really trying, then I'm sure that I'm going to lose interest in that game pretty fast and just by calling something a GAME doesn't degrade the experience for me in any way. It doesn't mean that I shouldn't be entitled to put a lot of time and effort into it if I so choose. Games can take many forms, not just on a computer. If you look at any major sport, be it football, baseball, soccer, tennis, pool, snooker, golf etc, all these could be said to be just games. One thing is for sure though, none of them are easy to become good at. And yet people spend a major part of their lives playing these "games" and not necessarily getting anywhere near the level of those at the top, but would you put them down for wanting to do so. So, when you've just laid out another $xx dollars on the latest and greatest racer yet to hit the PC, chances are I'll still be playing Gpl. Have fun. :-) -- Peter Ives (AKA Ivington)

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>> On my second try at the a7 championship, I got 3 firsts, two 2nds and >> a 6th :) I won the championship :) >> I did lose a wheel on the last stage of the pirelli rally, but other >> than that, my car allways got to the end :) Even if I did barrel roll >> it once or twice :o) >Ok then, you ARE the greatest sim driver in here :-)

lol! Nah, I do pretty good :) Ian

On Thu, 25 Nov 1999 10:17:20 +0100, Jan Hovius

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>> >right hand gate post - I don't want to be kicked out the rally >> >classified dead. Anyone here who's completed the Welsh Rally with all 6 >> >(or 7 in the Megane, my fav. car) gears stil working is either >> >Bullshitting, or Cheating. The damage model is VERY effective in the >> On my second try at the a7 championship, I got 3 firsts, two 2nds and >> a 6th :) I won the championship :) >First of all don't get me wrong: I don't have R2k (yet)! >But: If you're already able to become 1st within a couple of sessions doesn't >that mean that the game will become boring after a couple of weeks. >Sorry for the comparison (again): I've played GPL (yeah it's that one again) >for half a year now and still am not able to beat this f$%#$ing AC (Artificial >Clark)!!! Admitted the game is (very) hard but isn't that the reason we keep >on raving on it? I'm afraid RC2000 won't last that long if it's that easy to >beat the AI.

don't worry, I don't expect too many ppl to beat the AI on their 2nd go at the championship. Most ppl will get alot of playability out of this game. When you've mastered gpl, every other driving game becomes alot easier :o) Ian P.S. Just in case you didn't know, i am one of the worlds top drivers in gpl :)

<snip> Grand Touring (is Grand Touring any good - saw it for 10 - might buy!) No, it was the only game I've ever taken back to the shop. Worryingly, the same develpment team and publisher are about to release Ford Racing - fingers crossed, it looks *so* promising! <more snip> mm

Great input but does it allow you to bounce off the kerbs and get back into the corners without breaking ? never getting off the road etc ? last I saw the screenshots , it looks just like the QAF Rally championship with Magnetic did a few years ago. OK, I bought RC2k (alias Mobil Rally Championship) in the UK because I thought the Demo looked georgous, and by turning up the low-sensitivity zone on my MSFF profile setup, it handled quite nicely.

Taa - I'll know to keep clear. Oh, and Ford Racing might LOOK good - but that doesn't mean it's no going to be Pants.

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> <snip> > Grand Touring (is Grand Touring any good - saw it for 10 > - might buy!) > No, it was the only game I've ever taken back to the shop. Worryingly, the > same develpment team and publisher are about to release Ford Racing - > fingers crossed, it looks *so* promising! > <more snip> > mm