GPL - upgrade suggestions please?

I have a Celeron 300a OC'd to 450 on an ABIT BH-6, a Voo Doo3 3000 AGP, a SB Live Value and get constant 35/36 fps at 1024 x 768 with full details ON except driver arms (not because of frame rate hit; they distract me) with "mirror detail level" to cars and track and it rocks. I built this computer for GPL and I strongly recommend a Celeron. It works wonders for me. The 433 seams to be a good choice at the moment, performance and price wise as its cheap and you would not have to overclock it as drasticly as I have with my 300a. Just make sure you spend a little extra on good PC-100 memory if you plan on overclocking and join us online. You'll love the challenge and the new friends you'll make. Robert Hull, Qubec =:-D

I've been struggling with racing offline for some time now, due to a slow frame rate with other cars on the track, even with most details turned off. Down to 15-25 fps with anything more than 5 cars on the track. Compared with a solid 35-37 fps in training. What I was after was a system that can race with other cars without dropping the frame rate. My current system is: k6-2 300, 128mb ram, Voodoo Banshee (o'clocked to 127mhz), sb live. Obviously a 3dfx card is a must for GPL, but is it worth an upgrade to a voodoo 3? I usually run in either 640x480, full detail, or 800x600 with almost all detail, detail bias set midway. This usually gives 35-37 fps no probs in training. The options are: k6-3 450 at (Australian)$285 or Celeron 400 and BE6 mobo for $120 + $195 = $315 P3's and Athlons are a bit too pricy at the moment out this way. What have people found to do justice to GPL with other cars, CPU or video card, or both? Any comments would be appreciated, cos I'm sick of racing on my own!!! TIA R Mc * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!

If you stick with the K6-2 300, a voodoo3 won't help you much. When I had a K6-2 450, a voodoo3 3k gave me only slightly (if more consistent) framerates than my old V2. I would suggest a CPU upgrade first as GPL is very FPU intensive and not 3DNow! optimised. I've never seen GPL running on a K6-III, so I couldn't guarantee performance, but for multiplayer it should be fine. It's the ai in single player that really hits performance. Celery 450 will definitely run it ok, as 3 of my housemates use them. I have taken the plunge and got an Athlon 600, and now get constant 36fps, dropping very briefly to around 25 (about 2 secs) for a full gridstart from FF in v1.2 gives a slight framerate hit now, but it's still the fastest I've seen GPL run on any machine... Mike.

I was in a very similar situation to yours. My old AMD 350 just wasn't up to the task particularly at the start. It seemed the lower performing float point side of the AMD was the culprit. Went to a Celeron 433 on an ASUS board with a Banshee video card and now get 36 fps except for about 2 seconds at start when it drops to to 34. This with ALL objects, approx 3/4 detail bias, 11 opponents, 800x600, back of grid start, 5 sounds. I checked out the k6-3 first but it did not give me the performance boost I was looking for. Have not tried o/c'ing the Celeron yet sinc e I'm happy with things as they stand. Saving my money for an Athlon now. David

Same system I am running Robert. Your right, it's a great system for GPL, and does great for N3 and NL as well. -- Don Burnette Dburn in N3 and Legends > I have a Celeron 300a OC'd to 450 on an ABIT BH-6, a Voo Doo3 3000 AGP, a SB > Live Value and get constant 35/36 fps at 1024 x 768 with full details ON > except driver arms (not because of frame rate hit; they distract me) with > "mirror detail level" to cars and track and it rocks. > I built this computer for GPL and I strongly recommend a Celeron. It works > wonders for me. The 433 seams to be a good choice at the moment, performance > and price wise as its cheap and you would not have to overclock it as > drasticly as I have with my 300a. > Just make sure you spend a little extra on good PC-100 memory if you plan on > overclocking and join us online. You'll love the challenge and the new > friends you'll make. > Robert > Hull, Qubec > =:-D > > I've been struggling with racing offline for some time now, due to a > > slow frame rate with other cars on the track, even with most details > > turned off. Down to 15-25 fps with anything more than 5 cars on the > > track. Compared with a solid 35-37 fps in training. What I was after > > was a system that can race with other cars without dropping the frame > > rate. > > My current system is: > > k6-2 300, 128mb ram, Voodoo Banshee (o'clocked to 127mhz), sb live. > > Obviously a 3dfx card is a must for GPL, but is it worth an upgrade to > > a voodoo 3? I usually run in either 640x480, full detail, or 800x600 > > with almost all detail, detail bias set midway. This usually gives > > 35-37 fps no probs in training. > > The options are: > > k6-3 450 at (Australian)$285 > > or Celeron 400 and BE6 mobo for $120 + $195 = $315 > > P3's and Athlons are a bit too pricy at the moment out this way. > > What have people found to do justice to GPL with other cars, CPU or > > video card, or both? > > Any comments would be appreciated, cos I'm sick of racing on my own!!! > > TIA > > R Mc > > * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network > * > > The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!

You can get a celeron 366 cheap and overclock it to 550MHz with a proper 36fps... Brian

Quoted text (32 lines)

> I've been struggling with racing offline for some time now, due to a > slow frame rate with other cars on the track, even with most details > turned off. Down to 15-25 fps with anything more than 5 cars on the > track. Compared with a solid 35-37 fps in training. What I was after > was a system that can race with other cars without dropping the frame > rate. > My current system is: > k6-2 300, 128mb ram, Voodoo Banshee (o'clocked to 127mhz), sb live. > Obviously a 3dfx card is a must for GPL, but is it worth an upgrade to > a voodoo 3? I usually run in either 640x480, full detail, or 800x600 > with almost all detail, detail bias set midway. This usually gives > 35-37 fps no probs in training. > The options are: > k6-3 450 at (Australian)$285 > or Celeron 400 and BE6 mobo for $120 + $195 = $315 > P3's and Athlons are a bit too pricy at the moment out this way. > What have people found to do justice to GPL with other cars, CPU or > video card, or both? > Any comments would be appreciated, cos I'm sick of racing on my own!!! > TIA > R Mc > * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network * > The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!

I have about the same system as Robert does and it rocks in GPL compare to my old Pentium 233 Mmx.... Celeron 466 (not O/C) Asus P3BF V3 3000 AGP Diamond's MX-300 128 Mgs PC-100 ram I also have constant 35-36 fps at 1024 x 768 full details and as Robert i don't use driver's arms (i have some hehe). C. Giroux.

I got: ASUS P2B ASUS 3400 TNT 128 MB memory I get 36+ framerate all the way, except for the start (17 fps) The only setback is the mirrors. I have to reduce the refreshrate to 'every 4 frames' Hope to buy a faster P3 whenever they get cheaper. And overclock it too :)

> I have taken the plunge and got an Athlon 600, and now get constant 36fps, > dropping very briefly to around 25 (about 2 secs) for a full gridstart from the > FF in v1.2 gives a slight framerate hit now, but it's still the fastest I've > seen GPL run on any machine... That's interesting, as I expected the Athalon to really shine with a full field of AI. On my PIII 450 o'clocked to 558 (V3 3000), at 1024x768 I get 36 fps all the time, even at the start from the back of the grid (at least at Monza, Rouen and Spa). When running at 1280x1024 I get 32-33 fps with the PIII clocked at 558, but only 25 -26 with it clocked at 450. (this is with all detail, INCLUDING full detail in mirrors) Increasing the clock speed of the V3 (mine will run at 183) doesn't make very much difference at all. So it seems that once your running a V3 3000 (or above), then the CPU starts to become the bottleneck again. Roll on the Coppermine 733s!! Cheers... Phillip..

Thanks for all the suggestions, I think the k6-3 is now out of the picture. Celery 400 is the slowest available round here, but I successfully overclocked a friend's to 570 mhz, which was pretty cool. He was able to choose 90 and 95 mhz fsb, which was good cos 100 mhz was not possible. I hoped that the k6-3 would have performed reasonably, since it has 256k of cache at full speed, rather than 512 at half, or 128 at full. Especially since the GPL readme file specifically mentions the importance of the L2 cache. I'm very surprised by the Athlon performance - I thought that such a fast CPU would have been the bees knees with a V3 3000. If I am able to bankroll it (Possible, but not likely) I may stretch to the Athlon (with the Banshee), but it may be wiser to go the celery, oclock it, and upgrade to a V3 with the cash savings. I've heard that most Athlon 500's will o'clock to 750 mhz and up. Pity its so difficult to do (as on www.tomshardware.com). Good thing that Intel haven't gone that way with the Celery. Is anyone doing well with the Banshee at all with a fast CPU? Can't wait to get some CPU power happening and do some real racing!! * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!

Mike, I'm curious to know what mobo you have with your athlon, since most get canned by the critics. How have you found it, stability and so on. My brother is planning on getting an athlon, but is waiting until the mobo's get better. The frame drop at the start, is that with a full field with ALL details? Just a bit surprised (like Parcher) that the athlon slowed down a bit at the start. R Mc. * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!

We were looking at getting the k7m, based on all the reviews around on the net. How did you go about overclocking, did you get the old soldering iron out and go the hack, or something like on toms hardware? That wiring diagram that tacks onto the expansion connector looks good, and I have a friend who can knock up a PCB for my brother to do some clocking. For myself, I have a friendly computer guy who may be willing to let me try a few celerons to get the best overclocker!! Should be a ripper anyway. Maybe I'll try out my brother's Athlon, assuming that it happens soon enough. Would you recommend getting an Athlon (and sticking with the banshee) instead of a celeron 500 or so and v3 3000? I'll have to check out the message board, thanks for the info. R Mc * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!

Yeah, full field, ALL details including in mirrors, max # of sounds. I'm pretty sure it was 1024x768, I'll have to check that though (don't think I was running higher than that) I'll try to check my figures again, I could have been overlooking something. Believe me, it IS quick on an Athlon. I'm running an Asus K7M mobo. All the mobos have slight configuration problems on some systems at the moment, as they are 1st generation motherboards, but the K7M is the best board if you can get it sorted. The important things for an Athlon system, particularly a K7M, are a 300W power supply (see recommended ones at www.amd.com , decent PC100 RAM (preferably branded, the ram that ran fine in my Asus P5A with a K6-2 at 105mhz wouldn't run stably in the K7M at 100), and a decent cooler for the chip. My 600 is actually a 500 overclocked. The best place to look for info is the message board at www.amdzone.com Mike.

I got mine from www.overclockers.co.uk They sell pre-overclocked Athlon 500's at 600 and 700mhz, guaranteed for year. If you're in the US, I think www.step-thermodynamics.com offer a similar service. As for the graphics card, I would upgrade from the Banshee ASWELL if I were you. Otherwise it will be the bottleneck in the system. Of course you could wait for a DDR Geforce or a V4/V5. The other thing to think about is that people are starting to make "golden finger" devices for the Athlon.There is an edge connector on the top of the Athlon PCB, which can control all aspects of the Athlon's speed (multiplyer, L2 cache speed etc) with no soldering. Once companies start selling those, you'll really be able to play with overclocking. Mike.

Cool brother, thanks for the info. I'm located in Australia, and Athlons are still fairly rare (and pricey) at the moment here. Sounds like a pretty good deal that you got, especially since the brow-sweating is left to someone else. I'd be very stressed about taking a soldering iron to a $450 cpu. the price of the V3's is coming down pretty well, so I'll give that a look in as well. Might be better to upgrade, see how it goes, and then get the V3. I'm sure it won't take too long for o'clocking kits to be very readily available. Then all I'll need is a Kryotech refrigerator setup... Thanks again. R Mc.

Quoted text (55 lines)

> I got mine from www.overclockers.co.uk > They sell pre-overclocked Athlon 500's at 600 and 700mhz, > guaranteed for > year. If you're in the US, I think www.step-thermodynamics.com > offer a > similar service. As for the graphics card, I would upgrade from > the Banshee > ASWELL if I were you. Otherwise it will be the bottleneck in the > system. Of > course you could wait for a DDR Geforce or a V4/V5. > The other thing to think about is that people are starting to make > "golden > finger" devices for the Athlon.There is an edge connector on the > top of the > Athlon PCB, which can control all aspects of the Athlon's speed > (multiplyer, > L2 cache speed etc) with no soldering. Once companies start > selling those, > you'll really be able to play with overclocking. > Mike. > > We were looking at getting the k7m, based on all the reviews > around on > > the net. How did you go about overclocking, did you get the old > > soldering iron out and go the hack, or something like on toms > hardware? > > That wiring diagram that tacks onto the expansion connector > looks good, > > and I have a friend who can knock up a PCB for my brother to do > some > > clocking. > > For myself, I have a friendly computer guy who may be willing to > let me > > try a few celerons to get the best overclocker!! Should be a > ripper > > anyway. > > Maybe I'll try out my brother's Athlon, assuming that it happens > soon > > enough. > > Would you recommend getting an Athlon (and sticking with the > banshee) > > instead of a celeron 500 or so and v3 3000? > > I'll have to check out the message board, thanks for the info. > > R Mc > > * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's > Discussion Network > * > > The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet > - Free!

* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!

My understanding about the k-6-2/3 difference for *** is very small, i run a k-6-2 450, 128mb pc100 RAM, and one Voodoo2, I get a solid 36fps online, with 19 AI cars in front of me, i get 25-30 fps, but who cares, I get 36 fps online, go get a k-6-2 450, and join us online!! Scott H

Quoted text (32 lines)

> I've been struggling with racing offline for some time now, due to a > slow frame rate with other cars on the track, even with most details > turned off. Down to 15-25 fps with anything more than 5 cars on the > track. Compared with a solid 35-37 fps in training. What I was after > was a system that can race with other cars without dropping the frame > rate. > My current system is: > k6-2 300, 128mb ram, Voodoo Banshee (o'clocked to 127mhz), sb live. > Obviously a 3dfx card is a must for GPL, but is it worth an upgrade to > a voodoo 3? I usually run in either 640x480, full detail, or 800x600 > with almost all detail, detail bias set midway. This usually gives > 35-37 fps no probs in training. > The options are: > k6-3 450 at (Australian)$285 > or Celeron 400 and BE6 mobo for $120 + $195 = $315 > P3's and Athlons are a bit too pricy at the moment out this way. > What have people found to do justice to GPL with other cars, CPU or > video card, or both? > Any comments would be appreciated, cos I'm sick of racing on my own!!! > TIA > R Mc > * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network * > The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!