Apology

I've pulled the N3 Beta article (as well as the SR-Opinion) from the SRO site - not so much to appease Papyrus, this group, or anyone else for that matter - but to allow my conscious some rest. None of the actions of those who've visited SRO in the past saying that they've deleted the bookmark has anything to do with my decision - I don't have a problem if you pass my site over. It was wrong and irresponsible for me to post the information, especially since I hadn't even contacted Papyrus about it. However, I've had plenty of time to think about the situation - looking at it from the outside - and find that I'm guilty of sensationalism. I would be bullshitting everyone (and myself) if I was to continue fueling the fire, thinking I was somehow being attacked - the chip landed square on my shoulder, and I admit to daring anyone to knock it off. My inflated ego got the best of me, and for this I apologize. I also apologize to Papyrus - and more specifically to Shawn Wise - for dragging this through the mud. Cheers! Marc - SRO

Very nice apology Marc, if i had seen it posted about an hour ago I wouldn't have responded as I did. Very respectful of you to come here and post the below. -- Don Burnette Dburn in N3 and Legends

Absolutely commendable. We all make mistakes, but not everyone has it within them to own up. My hat's off to you.

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> I've pulled the N3 Beta article (as well as the SR-Opinion) from the SRO > site - not so much to appease Papyrus, this group, or anyone else for > that matter - but to allow my conscious some rest. None of the actions > of those who've visited SRO in the past saying that they've deleted the > bookmark has anything to do with my decision - I don't have a problem if > you pass my site over. It was wrong and irresponsible for me to post the > information, especially since I hadn't even contacted Papyrus about it. > However, I've had plenty of time to think about the situation - looking > at it from the outside - and find that I'm guilty of sensationalism. I > would be bullshitting everyone (and myself) if I was to continue fueling > the fire, thinking I was somehow being attacked - the chip landed square > on my shoulder, and I admit to daring anyone to knock it off. My > inflated ego got the best of me, and for this I apologize. > I also apologize to Papyrus - and more specifically to Shawn Wise - for > dragging this through the mud. > Cheers! > Marc - SRO

-- Chuck Kandler #70 ChuckK or KS70 on Won.net K&S Racing http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/thepits/195 The box said "Windows 95 or better", so I installed LINUX!

Very, very well said. "Marc J. Nelson" wrote

Well said Marc. Takes alot of guts to owe up to a mistake. This ones for you... Chris

Maybe you could teach the IRL & CART a thing or two, Marc!

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> I've pulled the N3 Beta article (as well as the SR-Opinion) from the SRO > site - not so much to appease Papyrus, this group, or anyone else for > that matter - but to allow my conscious some rest. None of the actions > of those who've visited SRO in the past saying that they've deleted the > bookmark has anything to do with my decision - I don't have a problem if > you pass my site over. It was wrong and irresponsible for me to post the > information, especially since I hadn't even contacted Papyrus about it. > However, I've had plenty of time to think about the situation - looking > at it from the outside - and find that I'm guilty of sensationalism. I > would be bullshitting everyone (and myself) if I was to continue fueling > the fire, thinking I was somehow being attacked - the chip landed square > on my shoulder, and I admit to daring anyone to knock it off. My > inflated ego got the best of me, and for this I apologize. > I also apologize to Papyrus - and more specifically to Shawn Wise - for > dragging this through the mud. > Cheers! > Marc - SRO

-- Rob Swindells Goldline Bearings FFord Championship: http://swindells.8m.com BAR-Honda-Jacques Villeneuve-2000 Champions

LOL!

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> Maybe you could teach the IRL & CART a thing or two, Marc! >> I've pulled the N3 Beta article (as well as the SR-Opinion) from the SRO >> site - not so much to appease Papyrus, this group, or anyone else for >> that matter - but to allow my conscious some rest. None of the actions >> of those who've visited SRO in the past saying that they've deleted the >> bookmark has anything to do with my decision - I don't have a problem if >> you pass my site over. It was wrong and irresponsible for me to post the >> information, especially since I hadn't even contacted Papyrus about it. >> However, I've had plenty of time to think about the situation - looking >> at it from the outside - and find that I'm guilty of sensationalism. I >> would be bullshitting everyone (and myself) if I was to continue fueling >> the fire, thinking I was somehow being attacked - the chip landed square >> on my shoulder, and I admit to daring anyone to knock it off. My >> inflated ego got the best of me, and for this I apologize. >> I also apologize to Papyrus - and more specifically to Shawn Wise - for >> dragging this through the mud. >> Cheers! >> Marc - SRO >-- >Rob Swindells >Goldline Bearings FFord Championship: http://swindells.8m.com >BAR-Honda-Jacques Villeneuve-2000 Champions

Eh... what happened? Call me superficial but I didn't notice anything particularly insulting or damaging about those articles (I'd re-read them to check, but then.. you pulled 'm). Nor did I come across any libelous postings over here. I've got to admit I skip about 80% of what's on here, but at least I think I'm getting the major fall-outs. ;-) Anybody care to fill me in? Whatever happened this is a very noble gesture. It shows you're made of the right stuff. Jan. ---- <Snip>

<snip> I think you should be forced to race Bill Elliott's NASCAR Challenge from now on...so there! ;] Cheers! ??Jan Kohl?? **The Pits Performance Team** Computer Systems Programmer USAF Air-Ground Operations School Hurlburt Field, FL Castle Graphics - http://www.castlegraphics.com/ The Pits - http://www.theuspits.com/

Uh, I have (sheepishly admiting it) a copy if he needs one :) Jeff

First, let me commend Marc Nelson for a first-rate apology -- a rare thing on UseNet! Having lurked through this whole thread, and having observed for a couple years Papyrus/Sierra's on-again, off-again participation in this newsgroup -- certainly the largest of its kind on the planet, and the closest thing to a public grapevine there is in sim racing -- I wonder if the apology is entirely warranted. Papy's in a tough position regarding what information (and patches, beta or otherwise) they release and when, and are largely "damned if they do and damned if they don't;" but, first and foremost, they are a consumer product manufacturer. While it may be thought by some that the retail truism "an informed consumer is the best advertising" doesn't necessarily apply to the *** market, where apparently any old piece of codswallop (Spirit of Speed, you name it) can be dumped on a brain-dead public and make money, it just ain't so. While GPL is a niche-market product that has had (understandably) modest sales, its very excellence has polished Papyrus' star among those who know the difference. NASCAR sims make the money, but a sim like GPL makes a reputation. The problem with a company's reputation is that it's very easy to besmirch -- they're the professionals after all, and are (like it or not) held to a higher standard than Joe Blow NG poster -- and not at all easy to reclaim. People come to this NG largely to ask questions and get answers. No one knows the answers to questions about Papyrus products better than the people who make them. Whether Papyrus decides to share their information is their decision, but a large part of any reputation is consistency, so Papyrus needs to decide whether they're going to participate in this newsgroup or not, as their consistency in this area has not been exactly uniform, and they need to decide *how* they're going to participate, if at all. A statement like "...and people wonder why we are reluctant to involve the racing community on a large scale" is neither useful nor professional. In no way does it promote Papyrus' best interest, and if it doesn't at the very least serve Papy's self-interest (let alone answer anybody's question), what possible purpose *does* it serve? Individuals can be arch and peevish in a public NG (though wouldn't it be nice if they weren't?), but manufacturers can hardly afford that selfish luxury without taking some of the gloss off their reputations. Take enough of the gloss off, and your reputation goes into the negative column. IMHO, before Papyrus got swallowed up by Sierra, there was a much more open exchange of information between Papyrus and this NG. I'm sure part of the lessening of the dialogue has to do with Sierra's more strict corporate culture and quite possibly downsizing. Whatever the case, Papyrus has to make a choice: either they're going to participate here or not. If they're not, for whatever reason, fine. If they *are*, then they have the professional obligation to act as model citizens, not to contribute further to the muck. We are *not* Papyrus' "enemy," unless Papyrus itself casts us in that role, as the quoted statement above seems to do. We buy your products, we support your products through word of mouth and the practically idolatrous labor of the many people who have built websites devoted to your products -- you couldn't BUY advertising like that, but you CAN throw it all away with a poor corporate attitude. Please think about it. Bart Brown

Jeffrey Haas amazingly admitted in message ... ROTFL! Geez, Jeff, that's kinda like going on national TV and saying that you had relationships with your intern, isn't it? ;] Cheers! ??Jan Kohl?? **The Pits Performance Team** Computer Systems Programmer USAF Air-Ground Operations School Hurlburt Field, FL Castle Graphics - http://www.castlegraphics.com/ The Pits - http://www.theuspits.com/

Sorry, Jan -- that's not severe enough. Marc's going to have to develop a physics hack for SoS that will give us some realistic steering inputs in exchange for his horrific transgression. THAT would show Papy, wouldn't it? <G> Either that, or he's should simply be forced to race only SoS from now on! ;-) -- JB

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><snip> >>I also apologize to Papyrus - and more specifically to Shawn Wise - for >>dragging this through the mud. >I think you should be forced to race Bill Elliott's NASCAR Challenge from >now on...so there! ;] >Cheers! >??Jan Kohl?? **The Pits Performance Team** >Computer Systems Programmer >USAF Air-Ground Operations School >Hurlburt Field, FL >Castle Graphics - http://www.castlegraphics.com/ >The Pits - http://www.theuspits.com/

No, NO! That's cruel and inhuman punishment! -Larry

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> <snip> > >I also apologize to Papyrus - and more specifically to Shawn Wise - for > >dragging this through the mud. > I think you should be forced to race Bill Elliott's NASCAR Challenge from > now on...so there! ;] > Cheers! > ??Jan Kohl?? **The Pits Performance Team** > Computer Systems Programmer > USAF Air-Ground Operations School > Hurlburt Field, FL > Castle Graphics - http://www.castlegraphics.com/ > The Pits - http://www.theuspits.com/