DTR - Don Wilshe what's going on?

I was under the impression from all the of Don's hype that DTR was "the" next great sim. Well, this ain't it. DTR is like powerslide with some very amateur simulation aspects added on oval tracks. 1. The in car graphics suck, I'm talking about the car interior, dashboard, etc. This is something I said months ago after seeing some screenshots from the dashboard view. The best view for racing is the front bumper cam, hood cam or whatever it's called. 2. The car graphics, especially the wheels and suspension look totally unrealistic, I was hoping for a lot better looking cars. 3. The damage model is well, seems like an after thought 4. The collision physics also seem like some kind of major fudge. Real cars cannot do that when the hit the wall, or get T-boned by another car and roll. 5. The multilplayer code is pretty horrible. 6. Replays? Despite having fairly good pings (150 -160) I notice speed up and slow down of the graphics in the corners during internet play. This is especially bad at Nocks Hill. I'm not sure if this is like clock zap or what, but if it is clock zap, why does it happen in the exact same place lap after lap for 25 laps? It definitely feels like the game goes into slow motion at the entrance of the turns during internet play. Seems like the physics engine, mutliplayer code, and graphics engine are doing some very weird stuff together. During an internet race at Shawano, I lead the entire race and lapped a badly warping c-webster multiple times. At the end I took the checkered flag, but before the race session was over it put me back to second place and sure enough the results screen showed c-webster was the winner. Despite other problems, I have yet to see a car multiple laps down warp into 1st during TEN, N3, or NL internet play, especially after giving the checkered flag to a different car. Don Wilshe must be a investor in Ratbag or have some pretty major personal financial gains at stake with DTR. All his hype is really ridiculous. What is Dirt Track Racing? A fair single player dirt racing game. Definitely on the arcade side of the fence. The multiplayer code is so bad, it's laughable. Get to coding ratboys, this ones gonna need some big ole patches if it's ever to be a contender.

Hello Nospam. ok noted for DTR II

>What is Dirt Track Racing? A fair single player dirt racing game. Get ready for the great war of "The New Millennium". GPL zealots vs DTR zealots. We haven't seen anything like this since Judaism vs Christianity. GPL is old testament, DTR is new testament. Who's going to start the reformation? I for one have had more fun playing DTR in the last few days then I've had with any game in a long, long time. And it's only the demo. Can't wait for the full game, and all those new cars and tracks. What I love about DTR is that you can actually 'race'. I mean, trade paint. In GPL, you touch another car, you're both in the trees. On a good server, you can bump and grind with DTR. You're not just hotlapping. But of course, if you have someone on there with a ping of 1700 there's going to be problems. What do you expect? glen

I've had about a thousand online races with a number of different sims/games and so far the online races with the DTR demo have been nearly flawless. David G Fisher

Sorry for the length of this in advance, please bear with me. I'm not real big on the way you present your argument, but I think you do make some valid points. >1. The in car graphics suck, I'm talking about the car interior, >dashboard, etc. This is something I said months ago after seeing some >screenshots from the dashboard view. The best view for racing is the >front bumper cam, hood cam or whatever it's called. I've been racing from the "above and behind" vantage point because the interior view is pretty hideous. This is the view that sparked the big GPL F10 Shitstorm, but it works best for the game. Basically the same as the first point, but agreed... sort of. The cars are fairly low poly count, but it works here I think. If you've seen an actual modified, they are basically just really thin gauge sheet metal wrapped and folded around a roll cage. Usually the only way you can identify what kind of car they are supposed to be is by looking at the rear quarter window. The rear and tires look kind of hokey. I believe there is something in the README about the demo using low quality textures to keep the download very small. The upside of all of this is that the game flies on a fairly low spec box. Not a bad thing if you truly believe the gameplay is the thing, which I do. You're right on with the wall comment. Online, I see lots of guys driving clear around on the wall, bouncing 2 feet off the ground and back down. The real clincher here is that it doesn't seem to hurt their lap times a lot. I try to drive clean, and sometimes I have to chase a guy doing that for a whole lap before I can overtake (no, I'm not a super-fast driver, but I don't run around is last place online either). The T-Bone flips are accurate in dirt. What happens is that a car gets pushed from the side, and the opposite side tires often plow into the dirt instead of sliding. Watch some real life Sprints, and you see it. You'll also see some incredible 5 flip barrel rolls as the tires keep touching down, hooking dirt, and making the car flip again and again. I think it's good, but the host having a good ping is very important in my experience. One of the games I was in the other night was horrible. Cars flying through the air, dropping out of the air, and repeatedly zipping backwards down the straights at Knocks Hill. As an experiment, the host backed out and rejoined, making someone else the host. The game was improved 100%, and we raced that way for another hour. I haven't experienced either of these two things in about 25 hours (total) of online play. I have seen stuff like this. Often, the game will report you as finishing 1st or 2nd, and then drop you back to 3rd as other guys finish. I think it straddles the sim fence perfectly. It's approachable, and online play is absolutely ***ive. I bet the full version will be much more sim-like since you'll be able to adjust a lot of parameters. The fact that you can bump around a little and not be immediately knocked out of the race like GPL is a plus in my opinion. It keeps more people in the race, and tempers cool. I've screwed up and hit people, and even when you knock them out of a race, they're usually cool when you apologize in chat since everyone has done it, and it doesn't happen often. DTR is the most refreshingly fun racing program of *any* type I've played since Motocross Madness came out. Tim

>You're right on with the wall comment. Online, I see lots of guys >driving clear around on the wall, bouncing 2 feet off the ground and >back down. The real clincher here is that it doesn't seem to hurt >their lap times a lot. I think that's warp. On their end, they're not on the wall. At Nocks Hill for example, I'm running as close as possible to the wall to take advantage of the steeper banking. If I touch the wall, I start to fishtail and I end up with a bad lap. Other drivers in the race probably see me scraping along the wall like mad. Also, multiplayer is great. I was on a server in Australia, I'm in Canada, and we had a lot of bumper to bumper races. Traded a lot of paint with a lot of different aussies last night. Had a total blast. This is a great racing game/sim. It's going to drive me crazy when people start getting the full game and I still have to wait my typical extra week or two. glen(sleestack)

> I've been racing from the "above and behind" vantage point because > the interior view is pretty hideous. My neighbour has what might be termed a "Production Stock" car. The interior of it is also rather hideous! ;-) The high quality textures will improve the image quality slightly and possibly makes things a little brighter. But they won't improve the look of the wheels. That's a polygon thing. I agree. No this is entirely due to lag. The car may look like it's hitting the wall and bouncing up and down but in reality it's not. Next time you see that happening ask the guy/gal whether they were hitting the wall. I bet he/she'll will say no. The server's connection is all important. I've had that happen to me once or twice. But usually it's quite excellent. Marko;

Hey mracer.... Go ahead and start writing code for "mracer's Perfect DTR", with all the ***es you have about DTR fixed and let us know when you are ready to let us start evaluating IT.... Known bugs are one thing, but "waaaaa... I don't like this" are another..... Cheers, A Sim Racer That Lives With The Product As Released

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>I was under the impression from all the of Don's hype that DTR was "the" >next great sim. >Well, this ain't it. DTR is like powerslide with some very amateur >simulation aspects added on oval tracks. >1. The in car graphics suck, I'm talking about the car interior, >dashboard, etc. This is something I said months ago after seeing some >screenshots from the dashboard view. The best view for racing is the >front bumper cam, hood cam or whatever it's called. >2. The car graphics, especially the wheels and suspension look totally >unrealistic, I was hoping for a lot better looking cars. >3. The damage model is well, seems like an after thought >4. The collision physics also seem like some kind of major fudge. Real >cars cannot do that when the hit the wall, or get T-boned by another car >and roll. >5. The multilplayer code is pretty horrible. >6. Replays? >Despite having fairly good pings (150 -160) I notice speed up and slow >down of the graphics in the corners during internet play. This is >especially bad at Nocks Hill. I'm not sure if this is like clock zap or >what, but if it is clock zap, why does it happen in the exact same place >lap after lap for 25 laps? It definitely feels like the game goes into >slow motion at the entrance of the turns during internet play. Seems >like the physics engine, mutliplayer code, and graphics engine are doing >some very weird stuff together. >During an internet race at Shawano, I lead the entire race and lapped a >badly warping c-webster multiple times. At the end I took the checkered >flag, but before the race session was over it put me back to second >place and sure enough the results screen showed c-webster was the >winner. Despite other problems, I have yet to see a car multiple laps >down warp into 1st during TEN, N3, or NL internet play, especially after >giving the checkered flag to a different car. >Don Wilshe must be a investor in Ratbag or have some pretty major >personal financial gains at stake with DTR. All his hype is really >ridiculous. >What is Dirt Track Racing? A fair single player dirt racing game. >Definitely on the arcade side of the fence. The multiplayer code is so >bad, it's laughable. Get to coding ratboys, this ones gonna need some >big ole patches if it's ever to be a contender.

[snip] The multiplayer code is so bad, it's laughable. [snip] really ? well tell me another game that is playable with a ping of over 500 I think that the multiplayer code is the best of ANY racing simm out there.. (insert gpl comments here) I have played them all actually this is the first FREE multiplayer game interface that I have been able to play against you american's in any style of game that includes 3d shooters and rts's ... sure I could go and join Ten or some other pay for play network, but I think for less than $50 bucks U.S. it is definately worth the money lets face it, this is just the demo and how long before a patch comes out ..... inevitably soonish as is the norm with ANY game. I don't know about what other people think about N3 (I luv it) but if you are trying to compare the net code with dtr to n3 then I think you might want to rethink which is better how many Australians are you playing in N3 multiplayer atm ? my guese is a big fat 0. if you hop on any of the user made servers for dtr chances are you will play an Aussie or a kiwi and we are on the other side of the world connected via our pissy local 56k networks. you'r opinion should be rebuffed in an appropriate way ... so in summing up "You are wrong, but hey what do i know?" ps don't take it personaly ... I may be wrong aswell Phill aka Carnrat http://racers.qgl.org ICQ # 2843454 Speiling mistakes, me never!