Unforeseen side benefit of DTR :)

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> After 2 days of playing the DTR demo both on and offline I went to a league > GPL race at Spa. I had an absolute blast slinging my Cooper around in fine 4 > wheel drifts through Eau Rouge and Burneville. The Masta kink did not seem > nearly as terrible as it usually does. In all the car just seemed much more > solidly planted on the road and the corrections were easy. Barring a couple > of offs caused more by excess enthusiasm than car troubles I had my best > race there in a long time ( no small feat when you're a natural midpacker). > I attribute a lot of this to the delicacy of car control (especially > throttle) required to get the most out of the DTR cars. Also after DTR > getting sideways in GPL doesn't seem quite so hard to deal with. Granted it > may not be the fastest way around but its nice to know that its easier to > recover from errors. GPL is still number 1 for me but DTR has some real > charms too . :) > David ( happily sideways)

were you drifting through the corners or were you doing a controlled power slide? I did notice 99% of the drivers on DTR were doing controlled power slides, that's why I ask. Just to be sure you're not confusing the two. -- ========================================= Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing? ========================================= http://members.xoom.com/BarlowRacing/ Racing online with the help of...... Race Communications Association Holodyne Engineering Mystic Music (have Your !!Name/Address!! placed here)

After 2 days of playing the DTR demo both on and offline I went to a league GPL race at Spa. I had an absolute blast slinging my Cooper around in fine 4 wheel drifts through Eau Rouge and Burneville. The Masta kink did not seem nearly as terrible as it usually does. In all the car just seemed much more solidly planted on the road and the corrections were easy. Barring a couple of offs caused more by excess enthusiasm than car troubles I had my best race there in a long time ( no small feat when you're a natural midpacker). I attribute a lot of this to the delicacy of car control (especially throttle) required to get the most out of the DTR cars. Also after DTR getting sideways in GPL doesn't seem quite so hard to deal with. Granted it may not be the fastest way around but its nice to know that its easier to recover from errors. GPL is still number 1 for me but DTR has some real charms too . :) David ( happily sideways)

Took me a while to get used to the high speeds again, but you got a point there.... Not one of my best showings there, but it turned out ok for going in cold. Jan.(not too much sideways, thanks!) ----

Aha!! -Another interesting insight into Dirt Track Racing technique may be present here.... care to elaborate Mike? Jan. ----

The benefit I was trying to express was my new found comfort at travel in a direction other than that indicated by the longitudinal axis of the car. I wasn't trying to say that the actual techniques of racing in DTR are directly applicable to GPL since they are , of course, entirely different forms of racing. However, like all types of racing, competeing involves running at the edge of the traction envelope. In DTR that edge occurs at a relatively slow speed and is encountered much more often. DTR's edge is also more forgiving from a control point of view if not from a lap time point of view. Unlike some others that have posted here I find that DTR does give clues (subtle ones) as to the traction state of the tires. GPL has *excellent* clues and the envelope edge is found at a much higher speed and the transition from fast to disaster is more abrupt. "Sideways" is a relative term since getting all crossed up in GPL would barely constitute a deviation from a straight line in DTR. So I'm not pitching the GPL car into the corner entrance the same way that I rotate the DTR car in but I do find that the smoothness learned in GPL is also applicable to DTR. David (who races all kinds of stuff) > > After 2 days of playing the DTR demo both on and offline I went to a league > > GPL race at Spa. I had an absolute blast slinging my Cooper around in fine 4 > > wheel drifts through Eau Rouge and Burneville. The Masta kink did not seem > > nearly as terrible as it usually does. In all the car just seemed much more > > solidly planted on the road and the corrections were easy. Barring a couple > > of offs caused more by excess enthusiasm than car troubles I had my best > > race there in a long time ( no small feat when you're a natural midpacker). > > I attribute a lot of this to the delicacy of car control (especially > > throttle) required to get the most out of the DTR cars. Also after DTR > > getting sideways in GPL doesn't seem quite so hard to deal with. Granted it > > may not be the fastest way around but its nice to know that its easier to

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> > recover from errors. GPL is still number 1 for me but DTR has some real > > charms too . :) > > David ( happily sideways) > were you drifting through the corners or were you doing a controlled > power slide? I did notice 99% of the drivers on DTR were doing > controlled power slides, that's why I ask. Just to be sure you're not > confusing the two. > -- > ========================================= > Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing? > ========================================= > http://members.xoom.com/BarlowRacing/ > Racing online with the help of...... > Race Communications Association > Holodyne Engineering > Mystic Music > (have Your !!Name/Address!! placed here)

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> Aha!! -Another interesting insight into Dirt Track Racing technique may be > present here.... care to elaborate Mike? > Jan. > ---- > Michael Barlow wrote... > > <Snip> > > were you drifting through the corners or were you doing a controlled > > power slide? I did notice 99% of the drivers on DTR were doing > > controlled power slides, that's why I ask. Just to be sure you're not > > confusing the two.

Bob Curtin has the right idea in his post.... It's difficult to explain, and even more difficult to do consistently, but I'll give it a try. I'm no expert, and I've only done it in real life on motorcycles, but the technique is pretty straightforward. One thing that may be working you up is the steering ratio in the demo -- it's set to 40.1 degrees, which, though you certainly need quick steering, is set way too high for me. Try to picture yourself driving in a parking lot with hard-packed snow. If you try to turn a car that is going too fast for the arc you've chosen, you'll simply plow ahead. If you feed in some throttle, the rear end will swing around and start propelling the car in a tangent to your original line. This does two things. First, it slows the car. Second, it alters the direction of the car. If you back the throttle off so that you maintain that angle, the car will travel in a more or less straight line and at an angle that is more than your original line but less than the angle formed by your car and your original line. Basic stuff. My technique for entering a turn is to roll off the throttle to the point where I'm going to maintain my slide, and to use the steering to induce the necessary oversteer. You can jump off the throttle and use less steering to get the oversteer, I find it slows the car too much but for me it's harder to find that throttle "sweet spot" and consequently I find it harder to be consistent and smooth. The trick in dirt track racing is to maintain the best slip angle AND maximum traction of the powered (rear) wheels. If you feed in too much throttle your rear wheels will break traction and the rear end will start to come around. If you correct with steering input alone, the car will lose forward speed and either maintain sideways motion, or worse, slow down. The whole idea is, with subtle steering input and throttle control, to maintain maximum FORWARD motion consistent with the line you're trying to maintain. As you said, the sound kind of makes keeping track of subtleties in your engine speed, but you do have the tach to watch. If you see your engine maxxing out the tach, you know you're not getting the forward speed you need to come squirting out of the turn. That transition from turn to straight, where you feed in the throttle to maximum and straighten the car out with steering input is really crucial to fast lap times. Do it too qickly and you loop. Do it too slowly and you get passed. One thing. Folks on this NG have scoffed and said that they can maintain full throttle all around every track. If you're doing this, you're not going to win against really competent drivers (And I'm not one of them.). If you can do that, you need to drop down a gear so that you have the capability to break the rear wheels loose at any point in the turn. At no point during your slide should your rear wheels have full traction, because that means you're oscillating between slide and full, straight-line motion. I know I didn't explain this very well, but I hope it helps some. -- ========================================= Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing? ========================================= http://members.xoom.com/BarlowRacing/ Racing online with the help of...... Race Communications Association Holodyne Engineering Mystic Music (have Your !!Name/Address!! placed here)

I think that there is a great deal of cross over in the technique. It's fairly well accepted that the dirt track origins of so many American motorcycle roadracers: Roberts,Spencer Rainey, Lawson, was a big factor in there success racing 500 GP bikes. And the same thing is being said now of the current young lions like the Hayden brothers. Kenny Roberts has been teaching Europeans the technique of sliding a GP bike by having roadracers ride a little dirt track on 100cc mini bikes. The same thing is being taught here in North America by some great dirt trackers at the American Super Camp. Check it out at: http://www.americansupercamp.com Bikes or cars, it makes no difference. The dirt makes you comfortable with a sliding vehicle. Car control is what it's all about. Speaking of which, the World Rally Championship started on tv this weekend, those guys are the ultimate when it comes to car control. -- Don Scurlock Vancouver,B.C.

In essence, there is ***-all difference except terminology! -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- > were you drifting through the corners or were you doing a controlled > power slide? I did notice 99% of the drivers on DTR were doing > controlled power slides, that's why I ask. Just to be sure you're not > confusing the two. -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==---------- http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World! ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----