Flight Sims Vs. Car Sims

Being an avid car enthusiast (GPL, Nascar3, DTR, etc.) car sims are my first love, however, after playing a few flight sims (EAW, Longbow2, etc.) I have come to the conclusion that flight sims are SO much more detailed in almost all aspects. Why is this? With a flight sim I have to turn on the engine and do numerous other tidbits that really increase the "immersion factor". I would love to have, for instance, a Nascar Sim that I have to turn on the fuel and ignition and fire it up, have a real neutral position (like GPL), etc. Perhaps I'm just rambling, but all these "little things" go a long way. I don't mean to slight the efforts of any sim developers, I think Nascar3 is great given its modest beings, just trying to help somebody raise the bar.... Hank

It is probably the nature of the genere. If a racing sim were done acurately (like GPL) it would certainly rival flightsims in the physics department. However quality flightsims have good coordination (at least decent) with wingmen or even flights. Falcon 4 has fantastic background radio chatter which IMHO adds to the immersion. Racing sims have very sparse radio chatter. The UBISOFT and Nascar series of racing sims have some radio chatter, but nowhere near the same. Also, racing sims require about 1000% more attention than flightsims do. Ariel battle is essentially hours of boredome puncuated by seconds of terror. Racing on the other hand really required 100% attention all the time. I've had many races in F1RS where I am doing great. Then someone comes into the room and tries talking to me. BOOM I lose concentration and crash. I guess what I am saying is you are so concentrated with driving, you don't have time to fiddle with little things like you do in flightsims. -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

I would love to have, I agree Hank. Flight sims took a big step up for my enjoyment when they started allowing taxing before the flight. Imagine a racing sim where you not only drove into the pits, but also into the garage area. Imagine the debates here if we got a sim that actually had a garage area, but had the computer drive us in. :) How about a bank of switches that controlled the standby electrical systems? Couldn't electrical failures be modeld? then we would 'intereact' with our working enviroment. Many other items such as this could be in place. In road racing sims, we could adjust the brake bias etc. I believe the ammount of things we DON't get to do in a racing sim is staggering dave henrie

If you want the ultimate in realism grab the Flight Sim "Fly!" by Terminal Reality. Set everything to full real including mixutres and engine starting sequence, etc. Then start up the Hawker Raytheon 800 from scratch. It's about 2 pages worth of steps.. though they don't quite let it get real enough for you to blow the turbofan apart.. it still takes a while. :) You even have to worry about whether or not yo uhave enough battery power to do it. Unlike the Flight Unlimited series (I have II & III) you don't have the overly annoying tower unless youw ant it and in Fly it's a lot easier to deal with. VERY good sim but I highly recommend you have at least a Pentium II450 or better. Out of the 7 or 8 flight sims Fly is the benchmark. ____________________ Polititians & Diapers have one thing in common: They should both be changed regularly and for the same reason!

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> I agree Hank. Flight sims took a big step up for my enjoyment when >they started allowing taxing before the flight. Imagine a racing sim >where you not only drove into the pits, but also into the garage area. > Imagine the debates here if we got a sim that actually had a garage >area, but had the computer drive us in. :) > How about a bank of switches that controlled the standby electrical >systems? Couldn't electrical failures be modeld? then we would >'intereact' with our working enviroment. Many other items such as this >could be in place. In road racing sims, we could adjust the brake bias >etc. I believe the ammount of things we DON't get to do in a racing sim >is staggering

How about an old game called Grand Prix where you did have brake bias and turbo boost and such modeled and it did affect the fuel economy, tire weark, braking distance, which one locked first based on tire wear, etc.. oh.. my fault, it's an old Amiga game from '90-91 or so. Why can't they do that now?? Everything was adjustable with noticeable results in that game. Heck, I think I'll throw my old Amiga 2000 back up (first time in about a year) and see if it's all I remember it to be. :) Do you realise it took nearly 6 years for the PC to catch up to what the Amiga was doing? Sheesh! I wonder what it would be capable of today. ____________________ Polititians & Diapers have one thing in common: They should both be changed regularly and for the same reason!

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>Being an avid car enthusiast (GPL, Nascar3, DTR, >etc.) car sims are my first love, however, after playing a few >flight sims (EAW, Longbow2, etc.) I have come to the >conclusion that flight sims are SO much more detailed >in almost all aspects. Why is this? With a flight sim I have >to turn on the engine and do numerous other tidbits that >really increase the "immersion factor". I would love to have,

[snip] I agree with you in a way, but I think the reason may be that hardly anyone gets to spend seat time in a plane, but almost everyone has behind the wheel of a car. In a flight sim, the mundane is neat because it's unfamiliar, and fun to learn what a pilot goes through. In a car, the mundane is more, well, mundane. :-) The fun of a racing sim is a familiar experience taken to an astronomical level. I'd rather the extra resources that would go into switching on the fuel pump and other flight sim type stuff be used on the driving model or AI ability. There hasn't been a sim yet that couldn't use improvement in one or the other. An accurate infield would be neat, but driving in and out of it wouldn't be worth all of the resources required to model it. I'm torn on the sims that make you manage a season with money. It's a neat idea, but honestly, I'm playing to get a break from that kind of day-to-day crap. The driving is the thing for me. Put me in the seat of a running, ready to go car with great physics and AI, and I won't miss micro-management for a second. Tim

IndyCar Racing 2 had that yes.. but we need to accept some series has not as much thing as that. Stock-cars mostly don't have those settings, no ? I have never seen a turbo-charged Nascar ;-D I would speculate that Gp3 will have such settings. But who knows, it's just a shot in the dark. For me immersion is not an essential even if I would welcome it easily. Throwing a Lotus on the Nurburgring with your speakers screaming, at the end of your lap and actually knowing this time that you might get a sub 8min 30sec lap is well enough immersive for me ;-) -- -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

>Being an avid car enthusiast (GPL, Nascar3, DTR, >etc.) car sims are my first love, however, after playing a few >flight sims (EAW, Longbow2, etc.) I have come to the >conclusion that flight sims are SO much more detailed >in almost all aspects I'm kind of with you on this one. Although I'm not so bothered about all the peripheral stuff (starting engines, driving into garages), I'm more concerned as to how flight sims just get more and more advanced/complex/difficult and sell on those qualities but racing sims (post GPL), are scared to go there. The amount of times I've heard "It's realistic, but we've tweaked it so that it's more playable". The most enjoyable virtual racing experience I've had bar none is GPL - and that's because it's a realistic as the technology will allow. No little tweaks of lowering the centre of gravity a little to aid the 'playability' side (as was apparently done on TOCA2 - I game I just plain don't like). If a flight sim made those sort of little tweaks, it would get crucified. Anyway, back to the real world... Cheers, Mark Reading, UK

Realistic pitstops would be a bonus as well. I'd really love to be in a race with the likes of Lake or Huttu, only to see them impassively sitting in front of theit garages whilst the mechanics frantically search for a fourth wheel to fit to their car <G> MS

Why not have a flight sim that you can do proper Reno style racing right out of the box with. I reckon this could be the best of both worlds and would not be too difficult to produce. A really great feature would be to actually design your own aircraft and the software could work out the performance and handling. Has anyone done this yet. I think this would be great with multiplayer racing. -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==---------- http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World! ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----

I think the answer is pretty simple... Flight sims concentrate on meticulously simulating the smallest detail of navigation, reading instruments, doing things in the right order.. because basically that's all there is to flying. Apart from watching the landscape, that is. If you skip all that, you've got nothing left!! In racing sims on the other hand, it is the RACING that is most important and most exciting. Or at least it should be :-) I don't think it would be too difficult to include similar details, but developers understand that improving the racing experience is more important. JoH Please remove *anti-spam* from the email when replying. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= When everything else failed, we can still become im- mortal by making an enormous blunder.... John Kenneth Galbraith =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

>Realistic pitstops would be a bonus as well. I'd really love to be in a race >with the likes of Lake or Huttu, only to see them impassively sitting in >front of theit garages whilst the mechanics frantically search for a fourth >wheel to fit to their car <G> Hehe. You know what I would like? An online racingteam simulation. You've to design a car, engine tires and the like, within certain parameters. Tradeof speed against reliability. Then you've to hire (human) drivers for online races. Online racing as a real teamsport, I think it would be cool... Remco

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>On Sun, 07 Nov 1999 16:20:31 GMT, >>I think the answer is pretty simple... >>Flight sims concentrate on meticulously simulating the smallest detail of >>navigation, reading instruments, doing things in the right order.. because >>basically that's all there is to flying. Apart from watching the landscape, that >>is. >>If you skip all that, you've got nothing left!! >>In racing sims on the other hand, it is the RACING that is most important and >>most exciting. >It sounds as if you have never flown a combat flight sim. >Try Falcon 4.0 and let us know if navigation and reading >instruments are all there is... >LOL!

What do YOU know!! I played Afterburner countless hours in the Arcade... ;-) No, serious: what would you think about a Falcon 4.0 where you can devote all your concentration to the dogfighting? Me thinks there wouldn't be much "prestige" left. A serious flightsim NEEDS all the bells and whistles and complexity it can get, or it gets shot down in a blink of an eye. JoH Please remove *anti-spam* from the email when replying. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= When everything else failed, we can still become im- mortal by making an enormous blunder.... John Kenneth Galbraith =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

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>Why not have a flight sim that you can do proper Reno style racing right out >of the box with. >I reckon this could be the best of both worlds and would not be too >difficult to produce. >A really great feature would be to actually design your own aircraft and the >software could work out the performance and handling. >Has anyone done this yet. >I think this would be great with multiplayer racing.

Either Sierra or Papyrus had this in the works, but then shelved it. There was a preview video on the N2 Busch expansion pack CD. Don McCorkle