some GPL ponderings.....

I have a friend I recently introduced to GPL (he races RT) and he fell imediately in love. (he just paged me today with his number followed by -1-28, he later explained it meant he got in the 28's at Monza!) He asked me why there was no rain in GPL? I couldn't answer him so I thought maybe someone here could.... Also, is tire wear included in the modeling? If so, or not, what other more obscure things were modeled, that might not have been expected. Such as the cold/warm tires sort of thing.. I appreciate all and any responses, Thanx! speedracer

Hi, c, GPL does not model rain for the same reason that the GPL engine is not used for current NASCAR sims ... inadequate cpu power available to cope with that many variables ... perhaps in a future version, after Pentium4 ??? ... tire wear is not modeled, because the tires available to racing teams in 1967 typically lasted 2 or 3 race weekends, including practice sessions! ... tire temperature IS modeled and seriously affects performance until the tires reach optimum temperature ... in fact, the setup screen shows current tire temperatures on inside edge, outside edge, and middle of tire, and this can be very useful in determining the usefulness of the current settings for camber, inflation, etc. Yr friend in the aether, smogbike

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> I have a friend I recently introduced to GPL (he races RT) and he fell > imediately in love. (he just paged me today with his number followed > by -1-28, he later explained it meant he got in the 28's at Monza!) > He asked me why there was no rain in GPL? I couldn't answer him so I > thought maybe someone here could.... > Also, is tire wear included in the modeling? If so, or not, what other more > obscure things were modeled, that might not have been expected. Such as the > cold/warm tires sort of thing.. > I appreciate all and any responses, Thanx! > speedracer

Sir, (1) "Weather" (other than bright, sunny days) was not included in the simulation because of Mr. Kaemmers doctrine that if it could not be modelled correctly then it wasn't going to be included. Thank God he introduced that commandment: GPL is hard enough to master. Imagine how easily a newbie would've been turned of by turning on the rain!! :o) 2) The tyres are not susceptible to wear but they do get hot, which can affect the performance. Trusting that this is of help. BK -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==---------- http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World! ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----

: Hi, c, : GPL does not model rain for the same reason that the GPL engine is not used for : current NASCAR sims ... inadequate cpu power available to cope with that many : variables ... Seems unlikely - the "rain variable" would simply modify tyre grip and temperature. It would seem to be extremely small CPU overhead. I imagine drawing it right would be a problem - particularely since papy's graphics expertise seems to lag their high understanding of race car dynamics. -- Richard G. Clegg Only the mind is waving Networks and Non-Linear Dynamics Group Dept. of Mathematics, Uni. of York www: http://manor.york.ac.uk/top.html

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> : Hi, c, > : GPL does not model rain for the same reason that the GPL engine is > not used for current NASCAR sims ... inadequate cpu power available to > cope with that many variables ... > Seems unlikely - the "rain variable" would simply modify tyre grip and > temperature. It would seem to be extremely small CPU overhead. I > imagine drawing it right would be a problem - particularely since > papy's graphics expertise seems to lag their high understanding of > race car dynamics. > -- > Richard G. Clegg Only the mind is waving

I think you are right...My first sims were on the Amiga. GP1 had the mist and spray...imagine my disappointment when ICR1 came out and all we got for rainy conditions was a grey horizion. Interestingly, both the original Indy 500 by Papyrus AND the EA Ferrari F1 sim used the mouse as the principle steering device. I was a world champ in th EA sim, if I limited my races to 3 laps...after that my engine would start to lose power(I'm assuming from over-revving) and the pak would fly by. dave henrie

I think it was because it couldn't be done to a satisfactory standard, ie. just lowering grip levels and drawing the rain would not be enough. Aquaplaning, puddles and drying racing lines would need to be modelled to make it accurate IMO. -- Ian Parker UKGPL League http://members.xoom.com/ukgpl/index.html http://www.ukgpl.com -- > : Hi, c, > : GPL does not model rain for the same reason that the GPL engine is not used for > : current NASCAR sims ... inadequate cpu power available to cope with that many > : variables ... > Seems unlikely - the "rain variable" would simply modify tyre grip and > temperature. It would seem to be extremely small CPU overhead. I > imagine drawing it right would be a problem - particularely since > papy's graphics expertise seems to lag their high understanding of > race car dynamics. > -- > Richard G. Clegg Only the mind is waving > Networks and Non-Linear Dynamics Group > Dept. of Mathematics, Uni. of York > www: http://manor.york.ac.uk/top.html

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> Sir, > (1) "Weather" (other than bright, sunny days) was not included in the > simulation because of Mr. Kaemmers doctrine that if it could not be modelled > correctly then it wasn't going to be included. Thank God he introduced that > commandment: GPL is hard enough to master. Imagine how easily a newbie > would've been turned of by turning on the rain!! :o)

A good point, since to model rain would require some serious hardware. A newbie who don't understand that to drive in the rain would be far more difficult probably returned GPL anyway. But think about blasting down the straights of Spa in a 20 player online race and not see a thing in front of you but spray. :) Oh no, i'm back into the Spa scenes of "Grand Prix" again :))) -- Olav K. Malmin remove spam when replying

: I think it was because it couldn't be done to a satisfactory standard, ie. : just lowering grip levels and drawing the rain would not be enough. : Aquaplaning, puddles and drying racing lines would need to be modelled to : make it accurate IMO. Yeah - but aquaplaning, puddles and a drying racing line are all just altered grip levels aren't they? For aquaplaning you can have a pretty simple rule like if the track is wet at that point and the speed is x then reduce the grip level until you get to a dry bit. They're all modifiers to tyre grip level. (If you think about it, the rain doesn't really affect anything else but how the tyre sticks to the track). -- Richard G. Clegg Only the mind is waving Networks and Non-Linear Dynamics Group Dept. of Mathematics, Uni. of York www: http://manor.york.ac.uk/top.html

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>: I think it was because it couldn't be done to a satisfactory standard, ie. >: just lowering grip levels and drawing the rain would not be enough. >: Aquaplaning, puddles and drying racing lines would need to be modelled to >: make it accurate IMO. > Yeah - but aquaplaning, puddles and a drying racing line are all just >altered grip levels aren't they? For aquaplaning you can have a pretty >simple rule like if the track is wet at that point and the speed is x >then reduce the grip level until you get to a dry bit. They're all >modifiers to tyre grip level. (If you think about it, the rain doesn't >really affect anything else but how the tyre sticks to the track).

Easier said than done. Well, it takes time and perhaps it was chosen not to devote the time to the product (at that time). Ruud van Gaal MarketGraph / MachTech: http://www.marketgraph.nl Art: http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery

:> Yeah - but aquaplaning, puddles and a drying racing line are all just :>altered grip levels aren't they? For aquaplaning you can have a pretty :>simple rule like if the track is wet at that point and the speed is x :>then reduce the grip level until you get to a dry bit. They're all :>modifiers to tyre grip level. (If you think about it, the rain doesn't :>really affect anything else but how the tyre sticks to the track). : Easier said than done. Well, it takes time and perhaps it was chosen : not to devote the time to the product (at that time). Agreed - I'm sure it was a decision along the lines of "we could do good wet weather effects but it would put us over budget and it would be better to concentrate on getting the thing out" rather than "we could do weather effects but the game would run too slow" -- Richard G. Clegg Only the mind is waving Networks and Non-Linear Dynamics Group Dept. of Mathematics, Uni. of York www: http://manor.york.ac.uk/top.html

> : I think it was because it couldn't be done to a satisfactory standard, ie. > : just lowering grip levels and drawing the rain would not be enough. > : Aquaplaning, puddles and drying racing lines would need to be modelled to > : make it accurate IMO. > Yeah - but aquaplaning, puddles and a drying racing line are all just > altered grip levels aren't they? For aquaplaning you can have a pretty > simple rule like if the track is wet at that point and the speed is x > then reduce the grip level until you get to a dry bit. They're all And how many clock cycles would that take? For each tire, calculate the load on the tire, the wetness of the track at that particular moment, more than 100 times a second. There are degrees of wetness you know, let alone rivers that dry out, racing line that is drier than the rest of the track no matter if it's raining or not, and if it's not the line will try out faster than the rest of the track. I'd say modelling wet weather includes more than couple of if-then-else lines ... That's how it's probably done in GP2 and MGPRS. Hena -- Best regards, Hena H?kk?nen Remove NOSPAM to email me!