Rally championship

I love this bit from the Gamespot UK review: The odd narrow gate or bridge spices things up too, and I distinctly remember, when we first demoed the game, a member of the development team saying "that's my tree - everyone hits it first time around". ***ic git.

The 9.8 rating seems just about right. [link lost in import] David G Fisher

Yes, it will indeed be an excellent game.

Personally I don't love it. They hyped the game as saying they accurately modeled all the roads and terrain of the Rally, yet they include those things just for the fun of it... So it's one or the other ? I hate when they say both. And no David it's not an attack to anybody, but cmon, they add that stuff "just for fun" ??? -- -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Please. David G Fisher

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> > The odd narrow gate or bridge > > spices things up too, and I distinctly > > remember, when we first demoed the game, a > > member of the development team saying > > "that's my tree - everyone hits it first time > > around". ***ic git. > Personally I don't love it. > They hyped the game as saying they accurately modeled all the roads and > terrain of the Rally, yet they include those things just for the fun of > it... So it's one or the other ? I hate when they say both. And no David > it's not an attack to anybody, but cmon, they add that stuff "just for

fun"

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> ??? > -- > -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> > -- May the Downforce be with you... > "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Please what? He asked a legit question. On one hand they claim to have accurately reproduced however many miles of BRC stages, the next they're saying they added trees for fun. What's it gonna be? I also remember reading an interview a good few months back with someone involved in the development praising the track design tool. They could playtest the layout, and if they didn't like it they could tweak it for greater playability very easily. Surely if you're modelling stages that exist in the real world then there's only one correct layout. Again I ask you what specifically has improved since the demo. The physics are hugely flawed, the car drives badly, the wheel support is terrible. When are we going to get a full demo that's not just a graphics showcase? I can not wait to get my hands on a good rally sim, so -please- answer these questions. I am not a 'gamer', I'm a 'simmer'. I've been ***ed to driving sims since ICR1 and F1GP. It's the only reason I own a PC. Reviews from gamers mean nothing to me - after all, they liked RAC which really was very disappointing. You are claiming that this is going to be the best sim out there and I am hungry for more detailed reasoning. The attitude you sometimes take when spouting the claims is sometimes suspect - that "It'll be the best no matter what ras thinks" type of claim. Not really the best way of selling your wares slagging off the hardest core virtual racers in the world. Despite what you may think, a lot of us do know what we're talking about. Give me some feedback, baby. Cheers Mark Reading, UK Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

:> > The odd narrow gate or bridge :> > spices things up too, and I distinctly :> > remember, when we first demoed the game, a :> > member of the development team saying :> > "that's my tree - everyone hits it first time :> > around". ***ic git. :> :> Personally I don't love it. :> :> They hyped the game as saying they accurately modeled all the roads and :> terrain of the Rally, yet they include those things just for the fun of :> it... So it's one or the other ? I hate when they say both. And no David Ah, lighten up. chances are I won't be visiting the actual stages any time soon. The fact that they used the survey maps means that there is a realistic sequence of corners. Good enough for me, and far better than foot to the floor NFS tracks or Sega Rally. The fact that they threw in a few rocks, trees, Welsh sheep and attached farmers is absolutely no problem for me. the co-driver calls them out, and you deal with them. It adds to the sphincter pucker factor, and that's a good thing in a rally game. Until they can add dynamic spectators who do a lemming rush when you're not expecting it, this is the next best way to keep you on your toes. Let's not get too ***about the whole accuracy thing. The main point is that the stages have the right corners, elevation changes and atmosphere. Stephen

While I'd go for accuracy over cryptically placed rocks and trees, I agree that it's not a big deal. I am more concerned about the 'tuned' nature of the layout. I wouldn't mind at all except that this is being hailed as "best sim ever" and "stages accurately recreated". I'll see if I can find the interview where some guy went on about the track design tool and report back if I manage it. I'll repeat - I don't mind the courses not being accurate except when I'm told that they are. In other words I don't like broken promises - there have been too many of them in simracing world. Cheers Mark Reading, UK Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

<snip> As promised - From interview with Richard Vanner, producer of RC, on GA-Sports: "You also have to realise that we have created a huge stage editor too. This tool allows us to be highly creative with the stages that we build, it let's us do everything and play the game as we build (far quicker than creating a level in say Lightwave, saving it out, running the game, testing it etc). We can just press "p" and play the stage, and at any point of the stage." Notice the words "highly creative". Once again, I don't mind inaccuracies, as long as accuracy is not something it's being sold on... Cheers Mark Reading, UK Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

>I am not a 'gamer', I'm a 'simmer'. Yea, and my garbage man isn't a garbage man, he's a Sanitation Engineer. That "simmer" argument always cracks me up, as if you're doing something more noble. Such denial. A "simmer" is a "gamer" with a cutting edge PC and $300+ in control gee-gaws. Embrace the horror. Tim

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> >I am not a 'gamer', I'm a 'simmer'. > Yea, and my garbage man isn't a garbage man, he's a Sanitation > Engineer. > That "simmer" argument always cracks me up, as if you're doing > something more noble. Such denial. > A "simmer" is a "gamer" with a cutting edge PC and $300+ in control > gee-gaws. Embrace the horror. > Tim

I agree. If you play games for fun you are a gamer. If you don't play games for fun or money you are a very strange person indeed. Sjoerd

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> >I am not a 'gamer', I'm a 'simmer'. > Yea, and my garbage man isn't a garbage man, he's a Sanitation > Engineer. > That "simmer" argument always cracks me up, as if you're doing > something more noble. Such denial. > A "simmer" is a "gamer" with a cutting edge PC and $300+ in control > gee-gaws. Embrace the horror.

You miss my point by a mile. What I'm saying is that I'm only into driving and flight sims on my pc. I could not give a monkeys about the adventures of Lara Croft or beating lap times in Wipeout. Sure, I try demos of such things but find I'm bored after about 10 minutes. I'm not at all a snob and appologise if that's how it sounded, but what I'm trying to say is that I'm less interested in finding out what Rally Championship is like from someone who is into V-Rally than I am from someone who is generally 'into' what I'm into. That's why I come here. Of course, I'll get a hundred different opinions, but they'll generally be more informed (as opposed to "RC ROX!!" I know that what I'm doing is playing games, I know it's not real life, but the category of what I play generally comes under the heading of 'simulation'. Let's get this straight once and for all: I do not think myself any better than a platform game playing ***. I do not think that the genre of what I play is any more noble or worthy than any other. I know that all I'm doing is killing time in front of a monitor and is generally not doing anyone any good (other than allowing my wife to watch whatever she wants to watch on TV and helping BT's profits along nicely!) Am I clear? One more time for the cheap seats. I AM NOT A BETTER PERSON THAN ANYONE ELSE BECAUSE I PLAY SIM-TYPE GAMES. The guy who was my best man has a PSX, an N64 and a Dreamcast among his console collection and loves playing those type of games. Do I think he's a moron? No. Do I have different tastes? Yes. Snobbery, and even worse being accused of being a snob f**ks me off BIG TIME. Well done mr Fusion, you hit a nerve. Mark Reading, UK Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

David I don't care if there is a tree or a rock here, I just want to know on what side they are. Do they continue with the hype they did on "WYSIWYG in the stages in real-life. Everything is modeled exactly", or do they continue with "We've modeled a couple of challenges here and there to make it more challenging, more of a fantasy on some stages". I don't mind one or the other, I just wish they wouldn't have a double-standard and hyping it on both side, which makes one or the other false. I just want to know what is it going to be ! :) -- -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Exactly ! I don't mind a rock at this place, for me if that stage is fun to play, fantasy or not, I'll be happy. But please they have advertised it on both side, claiming and hyping "Full accuracy of all you see", yet they also say "highly creative" like you just said Mark. -- -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

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>>I am not a 'gamer', I'm a 'simmer'. >Yea, and my garbage man isn't a garbage man, he's a Sanitation >Engineer. >That "simmer" argument always cracks me up, as if you're doing >something more noble. Such denial. >A "simmer" is a "gamer" with a cutting edge PC and $300+ in control >gee-gaws. Embrace the horror.

I know, I know, I'm going on - but you got to me :-) I got the expression from that guy I said was my best man. He was going on about this skateboarding title on the DC, fantastic this, blah, blah, amazing that, blah, blah (I yawn). And there was I saying "You've got to buy a wheel an play GPL online. Fantastic this, blah, blah, amazing that, blah, blah" (he yawns) He was the one who came out with "You see. that's where we differ - I'm a gamer, you're a simmer". We both love our interactive entertainment, and talk about it quite a bit, but it's not often we find ourselves liking the same thing. He also found it amusing that at the fact that the simpler his games got, the more complex mine got. Can we get along? I like discussions, -hate- arguments. TTFN Mark Reading, UK

Well said Mark !! I prefer simulation type games too, driving and flight. I don't like arcade style games because to me they don't feel like they simulate a real car enough. Thats not to knock the arcade games, many people like the go as fast as possible with lightning reflexes style of gameplay but personally I prefer the game to actually simulate a real car and a real race series. We will never get perfect simulation on a PC but as long as we feel that what the car is doing is accurate then I am pretty happy. I will still play arcade type games but to a much lesser extent than simulation now, up to about 2 years ago I didn't know you could get decent simulators for a PC because all I had was a PSX with its range of driving games a few of which were reasonably sim-like but nothing compared to the likes of GP2 and ICR2 which I first got when I bought a PC for work. I then tried the GPL demo and was blown away so much that I had to buy a new PC soon after the full release just to run it. I didnt buy a new PC to be a snob, but to run what I consider the finest piece of racing software currently in existence, if it would have run sufficiently on my P166 I'd have kept that :) -- Ian Parker UKGPL League [link lost in import] [link lost in import] -- > > >I am not a 'gamer', I'm a 'simmer'. > > Yea, and my garbage man isn't a garbage man, he's a Sanitation > > Engineer. > > That "simmer" argument always cracks me up, as if you're doing > > something more noble. Such denial. > > A "simmer" is a "gamer" with a cutting edge PC and $300+ in control > > gee-gaws. Embrace the horror. > You miss my point by a mile. What I'm saying is that I'm only into driving > and flight sims on my pc. I could not give a monkeys about the adventures of > Lara Croft or beating lap times in Wipeout. Sure, I try demos of such things > but find I'm bored after about 10 minutes. > I'm not at all a snob and appologise if that's how it sounded, but what I'm > trying to say is that I'm less interested in finding out what Rally > Championship is like from someone who is into V-Rally than I am from someone > who is generally 'into' what I'm into. That's why I come here. Of course, > I'll get a hundred different opinions, but they'll generally be more informed > (as opposed to "RC ROX!!" > I know that what I'm doing is playing games, I know it's not real life, but > the category of what I play generally comes under the heading of > 'simulation'. > Let's get this straight once and for all: I do not think myself any better > than a platform game playing ***. I do not think that the genre of what I > play is any more noble or worthy than any other. I know that all I'm doing > is killing time in front of a monitor and is generally not doing anyone any > good (other than allowing my wife to watch whatever she wants to watch on TV > and helping BT's profits along nicely!) > Am I clear? One more time for the cheap seats. I AM NOT A BETTER PERSON > THAN ANYONE ELSE BECAUSE I PLAY SIM-TYPE GAMES. > The guy who was my best man has a PSX, an N64 and a Dreamcast among his > console collection and loves playing those type of games. Do I think he's a > moron? No. Do I have different tastes? Yes. > Snobbery, and even worse being accused of being a snob f**ks me off BIG TIME. > Well done mr Fusion, you hit a nerve. > Mark > Reading, UK > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.

>I know, I know, I'm going on - but you got to me :-) Mark, that wasn't my intention at all. My post was truly made in good spirit. That was the point of the "Embrace the horror" comment at the end. I have the high end system and gee-gaws, so I'm in that boat. After I re-read the message, I see it could have been easily misconstrued as vindictive. Please take it only in jest. Although there is definitely some truth to it, its obvious you aren't a snob. Also, if it helps, I irritate pretty much everyone. :-) Cheers, Tim

> Also, if it helps, I irritate pretty much everyone. :-) Thanks for the reply Tim. Much appreciated. I'll keep the above noted to avoid future confusion ;-) Cheers Mark Reading, UK Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.