AMA Superbikes - Why no Pikes Peak Oval?

Ok, ok, I'll try not to start any more AMA threads! But what I've found out is bugging me a lot, so I have to ask. Given the lack of Vegas, Daytona, and Pheonix tracks, why on earth didn't Motorims allow racing on the fantastic Pikes Peak oval that is ALREADY THERE IN THE GAME? The Pikes Peak oval is closed, and you can race on a twisty inner-track. But the oval is not only modeled, it is incredibly fun to drive! (You can get a lap or two in before getting a penalty.) Now I know that the oval is not part of the AMA circuit. But given that there are three tracks missing, that every track in the game is basically a road-course, and the ovals are generally the most popular tracks in racing sims, doesn't it make sense to use this oval to replace one of the missing tracks, like Daytona? Everytime I try racing at another track now I just think how much fun racing on that oval would be. Please, Motorsims, give us an oval! It can't be much work with the track already modeled. Joe McGinn ========================================== Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network [link lost in import: /***.com/] ==========================================

Maybe because they don't race the oval in AMA no ? I mean let's be realistic, the tracks in AMA follow the season, they aren't just "there" to satisfy the needs of some fantasy ideas. Ok they might model a fantasy tracks, so I agree your idea could be fun, but not essential at the moment ;) With the versatile game engine in the simulation, Im sure it is possible, and I remember seing some guys at Motorsims say that someday they might look into that. It's nitpicking at the moment IMHO, I mean you should say the same for Loudon also.

>Maybe because they don't race the oval in AMA no? I mean let's be >realistic, the tracks in AMA follow the season, they aren't just "there" to >satisfy the needs of some fantasy ideas. But they are missing two tracks. The result is ALL of the tracks in AMA are of the same road-course style. I think that makes it worth deviating from the official schedule for at least one track. If you like road-courses it's nitpicking. If you liek high speed ovals it's a real pain. Joe McGinn ========================================== Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network [link lost in import: /***.com/] ==========================================

The tracks that are missing aren't run as ovals either. Parts of the ovals are used, but most of the race is in the infield road course. I've seen these at Daytona and Pheonix, but not vegas. So you really aren't going to get ovals in AMA Superbike even if they give you all the tracks. What they need is a flat tracking sim. Rick Miller (Arrowhead) > >Maybe because they don't race the oval in AMA no? I mean let's be > >realistic, the tracks in AMA follow the season, they aren't just "there" to

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> >satisfy the needs of some fantasy ideas. > But they are missing two tracks. The result is ALL of the tracks in > AMA are of the same road-course style. I think that makes it worth > deviating from the official schedule for at least one track. > >It's nitpicking at the moment IMHO > If you like road-courses it's nitpicking. If you liek high speed ovals > it's a real pain. > Joe McGinn > ========================================== > Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network > [link lost in import: /***.com/] > ==========================================

> Ok, ok, I'll try not to start any more AMA threads! But what I've > found out is bugging me a lot, so I have to ask. > Given the lack of Vegas, Daytona, and Pheonix tracks, why on earth > didn't Motorims allow racing on the fantastic Pikes Peak oval that is > ALREADY THERE IN THE GAME? It's more work to set up the AI and Race Control for a different course is all. The system is designed to make it easy to reconfigure the track as far as hay bales and cones, etc., go though. Hmm, I'll have to look at fixing that! :):) Some of the oval track real life problems will crop up in the game too. ;) Just like at Daytona (where the AMA run's a couple of the fast oval corners as part of the road race) you will trash the left side of your tires pretty quickly, even with the hardest compound, if you run too many PPIR oval laps. -- Matthew V. Jessick Motorsims Vehicle Dynamics Engineer (972)910-8866 Ext.125, Fax: (972)910-8216

Daytona is missing, yes. But not Motorsims' fault on that one. And it also may be a licensing issue with Pikes Peak too. They may only have the license to model the entire environment, but only use the "official" AMA track as a track in the game. Well, the vast majority of AMA IS road courses. Gp500 is all road courses, so is SBK. Perhaps N3 would work better? :)

> Given the lack of Vegas, Daytona, and Pheonix tracks, why on earth > didn't Motorims allow racing on the fantastic Pikes Peak oval that is > ALREADY THERE IN THE GAME? From you comments I take it you don't really follow AMA road racing, no? Las Vegas isn't on the schedule this year or next, Phoenix was run this year, but isn't on the schedule for 2000 either. Daytona, of course, will always be on the schedule but apparently Motorsims didn't want to pay they kind of money ISC wanted. Regardless, each of the tracks you mention are run on infield/oval hybrids, it is after all the AMA 'road racing' series, there is no strictly oval course in the AMA series. One or two corners are borrowed from the oval track and grafted onto an infield road course. This is done for the purely logistical reason of having to put spectators in seats (most of the top flight oval tracks have purpose built road courses independent of the oval that are used for club type racing, these tracks just don't have the accommodations for spectators) and is also done at great risk to the riders. So lamenting the absence of 'ovals' in a 'sim' doesn't really compute. They aren't allowed in the game because they aren't run in real life. They aren't run in real life because the tires can't take that kind of abuse and no road racer wants the misfortune of slamming into a concrete wall at 160+ MPH. The oval portions that are currently run are dangerous enough as are the all too common substandard dirt track ovals. Please Motorsims, give us realistic physics, let some one else (cough, Test Drive Cycles, cough) be masters of unrealism. - George

I'm very new to it, yes. Thx for the info, I didn't know that. Well, there's realism and there is fun. I understand choosing the former as a philosophy - and often it IS fun - but if you don't sometimes compromise for the latter you WILL lose a lot of potential customers. Joe McGinn ========================================== Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network [link lost in import: /***.com/] ==========================================

> Well, there's realism and there is fun. I understand choosing > the former as a philosophy - and often it IS fun - but if you > don't sometimes compromise for the latter you WILL lose > a lot of potential customers. Fine, call it something other than AMA Superbike Racing then, but once you sign on to recreate a real life motorsport series I think you owe it to the fans of that series (a title you really don't as yet qualify for), the series itself, and the participants of that series to stay as close as possible to the format of that series. Oval racing isn't part of that format. As for it being fun, that is your relatively uninformed opinion, but judging from the events that are being dropped from the AMA calendar I would say that opinion is in the minority. The riders really don't care for high speed banked corners lined with concrete walls and apparently the fans don't either. - George

On Sun, 24 Oct 1999 19:30:34 GMT, "George M. Smiley"

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>> Well, there's realism and there is fun. I understand choosing >> the former as a philosophy - and often it IS fun - but if you >> don't sometimes compromise for the latter you WILL lose >> a lot of potential customers. >Fine, call it something other than AMA Superbike Racing then, >but once you sign on to recreate a real life motorsport series >I think you owe it to the fans of that series (a title you really >don't as yet qualify for), the series itself, and the participants >of that series to stay as close as possible to the format of >that series. >Oval racing isn't part of that format. As for it being fun, that >is your relatively uninformed opinion, but judging from the >events that are being dropped from the AMA calendar I >would say that opinion is in the minority. The riders really >don't care for high speed banked corners lined with concrete >walls and apparently the fans don't either. > - George

I attended the Phoenix races the last three years and will miss it now that it is gone. Hopefully they will be back, if PIR fixes some safety issues. AMA want an added chicane in the turn four area, I believe. The infield area is great, but last year there were some horrifying incidents on the oval sections. I believe there were three riders who left via helicopter on saturday and one superbike guy who hit the inside wall *** the front straight . Very scary and not what I want to see at the races. Oval sections are not very safe for superbikes. I would like to see the old flat tracks simmed though. Dale

Fair enough - just don't expext it to sell to anyone BUT those fans. What is fun in reality, and fun in a computer game, are two completely different things. Joe McGinn ========================================== Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network [link lost in import: /***.com/] ==========================================

> Fair enough - just don't expext it to sell to anyone BUT > those fans. I don't work for Motorsims therefore I have no sales expectations for AMA Superbike (other than the one sale they lost when I didn't purchase the game and/or pay for their online racing service). What is fun in a simulation is very much related to what is fun in reality. - George