gpl - best setups ?

Can anyone reccommend a site with some good but easy to use setups for gpl.

>Can anyone reccommend a site with some good but easy to use setups for gpl. Alison Hine has some great setups on her website: http://simracing.com/alison/gpl/ Setups for the Coventry, Murasama, BRM, Brabham and (the best of all) Ferrari. regards

Alisons setups are great to start with, but are fundamentaly unbalanced and may leave you frustrated Try the greatest setup page on the net ... http://website.lineone.net/~richardn/ I don't get paid to advertise the site honest! :) but Richard .. (typical brit :) is too modest to post the address himself! The universal lotus, ferrari and cooper setups are meant to be great ... but best of all using the info on the page you will be able to tweak to your liking since everything is so well explained. I treat everything on this page as gospel ... most other places will just provide you with incorrect info and tips hope this helps Marc ps - if you drive the nurburgring at all send me an e-mail.... I have developed some setups which not only have taken me to the world records but are developed with drivability as the primary consideration.

You may be surprised that the default setups are pretty good, fully capable of running within a couple of seconds of the world records yet not too difficult to drive. This is intertesting though... http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk/gpl/tb-fc.html John Moore

gpl. Check out Alison Hines setups at VROC. Joel Willstein

Thanks for this info, i found the ferrari universal setup to be great, i tried it at monza and it was by far the easiest to use and not once did i lose control, excellent.

Quoted text (10 lines)

>Alisons setups are great to start with, but are fundamentaly unbalanced and >may leave you frustrated >Try the greatest setup page on the net ... >http://website.lineone.net/~richardn/ >I don't get paid to advertise the site honest! :) but Richard .. (typical >brit :) is too modest to post the address himself! >The universal lotus, ferrari and cooper setups are meant to be great ...

but

Quoted text (13 lines)

>best of all using the info on the page you will be able to tweak to your >liking since everything is so well explained. >I treat everything on this page as gospel ... most other places will just >provide you with incorrect info and tips >hope this helps >Marc >ps - if you drive the nurburgring at all send me an e-mail.... I have >developed some setups which not only have taken me to the world records but >are developed with drivability as the primary consideration.

Ian Parker <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:7tso9h$16u$[email hidden]... > It's true, they are fundamentally unbalanced in that they understeer alot, > that is why they make a relativley good choice for people who are new to > GPL.... > ....This in no way detracts from Alisons setups, they are easy to driveand > quite fast, but as Marc says they are fundamentally unbalanced. > -- > Ian Parker > [email hidden] Ian, An excellent explanation of Alisons' setups vs. a typical fast but oversteering setup,that only a handful of drivers in gpl have mastered. Personally,I'm one of the neutral at best drivers. Anything with too much oversteer results in spins every lap for me. JA Willstein

It's true, they are fundamentally unbalanced in that they understeer a lot, that is why they make a relativley good choice for people who are new to GPL. An understeering car is more stable to drive than a car which is setup for oversteer or even neutral handling, but the downside to the stable handling is that they are ultimately slower than a well balanced car. Of course your driving style plays a large part in how suitable a setup is for each person, some people (like me) can't live with a car with a lot of understeer, others can't drive a car fast if it tends to oversteer a lot. The other disadvantage to a car which understeers is the tyres are scrubbing in corners generating excessive heat, this causes more understeer causing more scrubbing which causes more heat etc... until the tyres are so hot that the car will no longer turn into corners well enough to keep speed up. This in no way detracts from Alisons setups, they are easy to drive and quite fast, but as Marc says they are fundamentally unbalanced. -- Ian Parker [email hidden] UKGPL League http://www.btinternet.com/~ukgpl/index.html -- AndrewS <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:d7bM3.10851$[email hidden]... > > Marc Mercer <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:7tnk9c$sh8$[email hidden]... > > Alisons setups are great to start with, but are fundamentaly unbalanced > and > > may leave you frustrated > > > > I've seen hundreds of posts about Alison's setups, but this is the 1st > negative one. Having used her Ferrari setup, it is by far the most balanced > and best setup created for GPL. It may not suit your driving style, but to > call them fundametally unbalanced is more than a little off target. > > -Andrew > > >

Aw, thanks David, but now I'm all embarrassed. I'd just like to add that, although the earlier setups did understeer midcorner a little, the latest (Nunnini4.??1) are designed to be completely neutral. I find that they can occasionally 'bite you' with snap oversteer - realistic, maybe? - but they're generally better over a race distance like this, as the front tires stay relatively cooler. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Marc Mercer <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:7tnk9c$sh8$[email hidden]... > Alisons setups are great to start with, but are fundamentaly unbalancedand > may leave you frustrated > I've seen hundreds of posts about Alison's setups, but this is the 1st negative one. Having used her Ferrari setup, it is by far the most balanced and best setup created for GPL. It may not suit your driving style, but to call them fundametally unbalanced is more than a little off target. -Andrew

> I've seen hundreds of posts about Alison's setups, but this is the 1st > negative one. Having used her Ferrari setup, it is by far the most balanced > and best setup created for GPL. It may not suit your driving style, but to > call them fundametally unbalanced is more than a little off target. > ^n > -Andrew I tried Alison's set-ups too, quite a while back. Out of respect for her. Because I think that she has contributed a bunch to GPL and to the people here who love the game. And BTW it is just a game. I had hit the wall, so to speak at Zandvoort and was looking for some help. Mind you that I've never used anyones set-up but my own. So I tried Alison's Ferrari ( high rider) set-up for a change. And I have to say that they were way too pushy for my style. I've been setting up Dirt Modified cars for 15 years, so I like the car to turn.....easy. "Loose is fast.....tight is slow!" Nothing at all against Alison but her set-up just didn't fit my style. However I did learn some things by using them. Now, I don't want to get on anyones flame or "plonk" list but the link to the original post in this thread to Richard Nunnini's site should be required reading for anyone playing GPL. IMHO , Richard should have written "Four Wheel Drift" instead of Steve Smith. Cause I learned a lot more from Richard than I did from Steve. Now to be fair, Richard Nunnini's set-up advice tends toward understeer as well but he explains things in great detail and has some data that I've not seen anywhere else. Just D/Ling a set-up is not the key to going fast. The real trick is to know what to change, why you are changing it and what the result will be before you change it. Mr. Nunnuni has the information to help you do that. DBH Three cheers for Richard!!! The key is here>> http://website.lineone.net/~richardn/Setups.html

No Ricardo, Thank you. I've been a student of chassis dynamics since before I had to shave every day. I have tried to read and learn as much as I possibly could about the physics of racing. I've been a crew chief for 15 years and it never ceases to amaze me the amount of cut and try that is done. Mostly misguided and often with no basis for the changes that are made. As I said, in my opinion and it is just that, my opinion, the book that came with GPL was vague at best and quite a bit of it was incorrect or maybe incomplete is a better word. The information at your site is very good and complete with the explainations as to what each setting will do and how it effects the chassis. I even learned quite few things that will apply to real car racing. The world we live in is a school and we should all go everyday. I didn't d/l one of your setups but I did use your advice to create my setup. The only thing I would add is that I like a little less spring split between the front and rear because it adds more dynamic cross-weight as the car rolls on turn in. I also set my bars a little closer together. Which for me makes the car turn better. Us dirt racers don't like to see the wall when we hit it. <G> Great work!! DBH [email hidden] wrote:

Quoted text (11 lines)

> Aw, thanks David, but now I'm all embarrassed. > > I'd just like to add that, although the earlier setups did > understeer midcorner a little, the latest (Nunnini4.??1) are designed > to be completely neutral. I find that they can occasionally 'bite you' > with snap oversteer - realistic, maybe? - but they're generally better > over a race distance like this, as the front tires stay relatively > cooler. > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.

"David B. Harrison" wrote:

Quoted text (19 lines)

> > I've seen hundreds of posts about Alison's setups, but this is the 1st > > negative one. Having used her Ferrari setup, it is by far the most balanced > > and best setup created for GPL. It may not suit your driving style, but to > > call them fundametally unbalanced is more than a little off target. > > ^n > > -Andrew > > I tried Alison's set-ups too, quite a while back. Out of respect for her. > Because I think that she has contributed a bunch to GPL and to the people here > who love the game. And BTW it is just a game. I had hit the wall, so to speak at > Zandvoort and was looking for some help. Mind you that I've never used anyones > set-up but my own. So I tried Alison's Ferrari ( high rider) set-up for a > change. And I have to say that they were way too pushy for my style. I've been > setting up Dirt Modified cars for 15 years, so I like the car to turn.....easy. > "Loose is fast.....tight is slow!" Nothing at all against Alison but her set-up > just didn't fit my style. However I did learn some things by using them. Now, I > don't want to get on anyones flame or "plonk" list but the link to the original > post in this thread to Richard Nunnini's site should be required reading for > anyone playing GPL.

If you have seperate throttle / brake controls and use trail braking to get the car turning, her setups work much better. They still plow a bit too much for my taste, but they make a very good starting point. When I first started GPL, I jumped in the Ferrari and slid through every turn I could. This is wonderfully fun, but before long my rear tires are slag. Slowly I realised that there were other ways to get around the track. As I learn and combine new techniques, my lap times are getting steadily quicker - most rewarding! Richard's site is _very_ helpful, although I don't agree with 100% of his statements / theories. Greg's $0.02 -- Note! Anti-spam tactics engaged! Remove the duplicate "g" and "s" before replying.

> I've seen hundreds of posts about Alison's setups, but this is the 1st > negative one. Having used her Ferrari setup, it is by far the mostbalanced > and best setup created for GPL. It may not suit your driving style, butto > call them fundametally unbalanced is more than a little off target. > > -Andrew My statement was not meant to be negative about alisons setups, they make a fantastic starting point, and infact all my setups have evolved from hers. However ... I do believe that they are fundamentally unbalanced in that they do understeer (a lot) for example ...on a steadly throttle in a long even radius corner you wil notice that the car will significantly understeer (require you to use more steering lock than you should have to) I believe the bigest cause of the understeer is her choice of spring values (front too close to rear value). Richards theory with springs solves this .. although does require individual tweaking from car to car. Marc

On Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:12:53 GMT, [email hidden] wrote:

Quoted text (8 lines)

>Aw, thanks David, but now I'm all embarrassed. > >I'd just like to add that, although the earlier setups did >understeer midcorner a little, the latest (Nunnini4.??1) are designed >to be completely neutral. I find that they can occasionally 'bite you' >with snap oversteer - realistic, maybe? - but they're generally better >over a race distance like this, as the front tires stay relatively >cooler.

I must have missed the front end of this thread. Where can I find, or rather download the Nunnini setups? Thanks, Ruud van Gaal MarketGraph / MachTech: http://www.marketgraph.nl Art: http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery

Ruud van Gaal wrote in message <[email hidden]>...

Quoted text (8 lines)

>On Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:12:53 GMT, [email hidden] wrote: > >I must have missed the front end of this thread. >Where can I find, or rather download the Nunnini setups? > >Thanks, > >Ruud van Gaal

http://website.lineone.net/~richardn/Setups.html <remove 7of9 for e-mail replies> -- Bill Jones e-mail addresses: Computer Sciences Corp. (work) [email hidden] Norwich, Connecticut (play) [email hidden] (860) 701-1201 WWW: http://pages.cthome.net/billj

> I believe the bigest cause of the understeer is her choice of spring values > (front too close to rear value). Richards theory with springs solves this .. > although does require individual tweaking from car to car. > People have overlooked entirely the differential and how it affects the handling of the cars in GPL. 85/30 and 85/45 seem to be most predominant settings and is in fact a large contrigbutor to how much the car will understeer. Carrol Smith has an excellent description (as well as diagrams) of how clutch pack diffs. operate in his book "Drive to Win", and also talks about what settings he generally uses. Here is an excerpt from Drive to Win: "For faster corners with more download some teams use 60/30 ramps. I have never been happy with 45/45 (too much corner entry and mid-phase understeer) but I know some very successfull people who are - in the UK. I don't know anyone who likes them in slow corners or on bumpy courses. Personally I cannot conceive of using any ramp of less than 80 degrees on the coast side." He goes on to say: "The most common misconception with these units is that the amount of preload on the clutch plates is a primary determining factor of the amount of lock up. It can be, but it is better if it is not. The spreading force of the bevel gears is an order of magnitude greater than any conceiveable preload." He also mentions that his personal choices are 45/85 or 80/80 with little or no preload and that the latter is a very benign setup if there are no really slow hairpins or not much available torque. I've been actively using 45/85 with 1 clutch with some degree of success on the Brabham at 4 + in. of ride height. I find that while it has a tendency towards trailing throttle oversteer, this can be compensated for by liberal usage of trail braking and being carefull not to take your foot of the accelerator too abrutptly. In fact it requires smoothness in regards to the transition from full throttle to neutral throttle. It also requires a different approach to springs and roll bars. I could go on in great depth about what I've learned (or think I've learned) but I'm not sure that it would be welcomed as I am not one of the faster drivers of GPL. Nonetheless I do believe that limiting oneself to relatively low ride heights (2.5-3.5) and diff settings that are appearantly not recommended (i.e. 85/30 in particular) even though they appear to be the fastest with regard to the limitations of the physics engine, is a mistake. GPL may be the most advanced physics engine ever put into a sim, but its potential is vastly unexplored. Some of my fast laps with the Brabham and a 45/85 Kyalami 1:21.50 Brands Hatch 1:36.50 Monaco 1:28.30 Not world class I know, but still faster than I ever was at 2.5 with an 85/30. The faster guys could probably do better, but I doubt they'll ever try.

I only found out about Ricardo's set-ups yesterday but I immediately found them a great improvement over Alison's understeering (pushy) ones. I'm no ace (about a million miles away) but the car now feels more real, actually turning in when I swing the wheel. With Alison's set-ups the car reminds me of nothing more than my old Cooper 'S' - armfuls of understeer only overcome with judicious use of the handbrake! -- Tony Whitley