N3 Framerates:TNT vs. V2: Suprise!

OK, so I'm a generation behind on both of my video cards, but I'm still satisfied with the performance of both. I did a few framerate tests, and after seeing the V3 Glide comments, I was a little surprised at the V2 Glide results. Thought this might help some of the guys with older cards. These tests were rather impromptu, since there isn't any sort of "timedemo", but I made them as consistent as possible. My system specs: P2/400, 128meg RAM, STB Velocity 4400 (TNT), Black Magic (12meg V2). Both cards are using the latest reference drivers, no overclocking. For each test, I ran 6 laps at Martinsville, 43 cars, in traffic, all details maxxed (trying to get a "worst case" scenario). V2 Glide (aa indicates Anti Aliasing on) 640x480aa 30-31fps (never dropped) 640x480 30fps (never dropped) 800x600aa 20fps (observed low 16fps) 800x600 25fps (observed low 20fps) 1024x768 N/A TNT D3D 640x480 30-31 fps (never dropped) 800x600 30-31 fps (observed low 27fps) 1024x768 27-30 fps (observed low 22 fps) Some quick conclusions: I was REALLY surprised with the TNT D3D results at high res, which were better than the Glide results at 800x600. The observed low at high res on the TNT was pretty far below the average, and occurred as I was exiting the pit lane with lots of traffic coming around. It generally stayed around 27. Based on the V3 Glide comments I'd read, I still expected the Glide version to outperform the D3D. Anti Aliasing on the V2 ends up costing about 5fps. I'd leave it off, personally. The difference isn't all that great. I didn't try a D3D test on the V2 card. I use the TNT for all of my D3D stuff and leave the V2 set for Glide only. If anyone wants V2 D3D results, I can check them. I ended up settling on running in D3D at 800x600, all details on. The framerate seldom waivers below 30, and I don't notice the big difference in image quality between Glide and D3D with the V2 that the V3 guys are reporting. Tim

For a graphics quality comparision, steer your browser to: http://www2.dicom.se/peter/compare1.jpg http://www2.dicom.se/peter/compare2.jpg http://www2.dicom.se/peter/comparesmall.jpg (These were done on my Mac at work, hence the window styles etc.) Also see my thread "Nascar 3 graphics comparisons" from yesterday. /peern SNIP

>For a graphics quality comparision, steer your browser to: That was superb Peter. The difference in the car textures is quite striking when viewed side by side. I'm going to have to go back and really scrutinize it, but I don't remember seeing that much of a difference when I switched between the V2 and the TNT. I'd like to think I would have noticed that! Tim

I saw similar results between my V2 and Asus V3800 TNT2 non-ultra card. Except, the colors and graphics are far superior with the TNT card. -Larry

Just tweak the D3D settings a bit and you'll EASILY get better texture quality with your TNT. Those pics really look awful. I wouldn't bear that kinda textures for a second. --- Antti Markus Peteri 15 miles. your dim light shines from so far away - Soul Asylum, Promises Broken

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>> The difference in the car textures is quite >> striking when viewed side by side. >Just tweak the D3D settings a bit and you'll EASILY get better texture >quality with your TNT. Those pics really look awful. I wouldn't bear that >kinda textures for a second. >--- >Antti Markus Peteri > 15 miles. your dim light shines from so far away > - Soul Asylum, Promises Broken

That sounded easy. Please advice, which D3D settings should I tweak? Anti-aliasing in D3D makes no difference. Mip-mapping I haven't tried but I will. Anything else? I'd like to see screenshots. Just the ass of the next car in front of you in the pits. /petern

http://www.tol.oulu.fi/~midpro/comparison.html Of course, the jaggies are always there with D3D since TNT/TNT2's AA settings are useless in N3. I only objected to your judgement of Glide/D3D texture quality. Unless you're using some ancient drivers with your TNT, there should be a wealth of options available in D3D settings, each of which has a distinct effect on texture quality (mipmap levels, mipmap method, detail level, even texel alignment). --- Antti Markus Peteri 15 miles. your dim light shines from so far away - Soul Asylum, Promises Broken

When I looked at Peters shots, I wondered how I could have overlooked such a quality difference. Your's are representative of what I'm seeing with D3D. Tim

hi, i'm using a tnt 2, and have several options for setting the card, but am not sure which one to select. here are some of the options and any help would be appreciated: Permit dithering- yes or no Auto generate mipmap-yes or no Auto generate mipmap filtering-bi-linear or tri-linear Anti-aliasing supersampling size from 2x2 through 4x4? thanks in advance Wayne

I would suggest experimenting a bit. As I said before, N3 D3D implementation doesn't support TNT's hardware anti-aliasing so just disable it. What drivers are you using? From what you described, they seem to offer very little freedom. The number of mipmap levels and mipmap detail level are often the most significant factors. If you witness excessive blurring or some unspecified texture anomalies, try reducing the number of auto-generated mipmap levels. But it really depends on the game and your personal preferences of what exactly works in each case. Find a pleasing balance between speed and eyecandy and then save the settings. I'm always a bit surprised to find out that people often leave their vid card settings untouched when grabbing a new game. It's like owning a top-of-the-line TV set and just changing the channels without ever abandoning the factory settings. You've paid for the hardware, take advantage of its capabilities - to the max. If the drivers restrict you, don't settle for that, there are always other drivers to choose from. --- Antti Markus Peteri 15 miles. your dim light shines from so far away - Soul Asylum, Promises Broken