N3 looks as if we have the same old BS from PAPY

Now, I JUST CAN'T WAIT for the patch ! Since we were BLESSED with a PATCH in GPL, I am sure their hard work and dedication will give us a unique experience. Rendition cards can't be used anymore, (never mind that THEY were HARPING the THRILLER 3D experience just a short while ago in their OWN magazine for INDY2!) Give them time to work on it, I am sure you will say. "It just came out, giove them time to work out the bugs." Then it will be ready for the garbage, in case it hasn't ended up there already!

They have stated for quite some time it would not support Rendition., It shouldn't have been a suprise. -- Don Burnette Dburn on Ten http://members.home.net/d.burnette/Sportsman%204.htm

It was said a long time ago, that Papyrus would slowly start to eliminate their Rendition Rasterizer out of their titles. The first step was the N2 beta 3dfx patch, after the NR99 Glide implementation. You finally got the Glide/OpenGL rasterizers in GPL, then Direct3D in Nascar Racing 3. I think anybody that looks at the situation from an outside Point-of-view understands that even if Rendition cards might still do a good visual representation compared to other 3d cards and is still very fast, it is time to pass to something else. You thought that in 2008 Papyrus would still be doing a Rendition rasterizer for their titles ? Somewhere they have to stop it. It's dead, and there is a very big chance that it will never come back. At the moment Direct 3d is the future of 3d-technology for ***. Not Rendition. -- -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

I seriously doubt that a patch can help this game, It needs a major overhaul.......opps.....That would be NASCAR 4 LOL

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>They have stated for quite some time it would not support Rendition., >It shouldn't have been a suprise. >It was said a long time ago, that Papyrus would slowly start to eliminate >their Rendition Rasterizer out of their titles. The first step was the N2 >beta 3dfx patch, after the NR99 Glide implementation. You finally got the >Glide/OpenGL rasterizers in GPL, then Direct3D in Nascar Racing 3.

Yes, as a three-year Rendition user (and six year Papyrus user :), I can understand phasing out support for *hardware-specific* ports for Rendition cards. *However*, they also told us, "but you can always use Direct 3D with your Rendition cards". Unfortunately, that is *not true* (not with the Thriller drivers, and only halfway with the Rendition reference drivers [it won't crash but it won't show some features, plus I believe you lose other facilities such as gamma control]). I understand that it's a bit of the chicken and the egg (blame your software publisher versus blame your hardware/driver vendor), but it is a big letdown for many faithful Rendition/Papyrus users. Just about the only 3D programs I run are Papyrus sims, so I was happy. I didn't mind spending $750 or so building a new PC for GPL. But considering I'm not that e***d about spending $45 for N3 to begin with, another $100+ for a Voodoo3 further dampens my interest. Maybe someday, though... Yeah, it's not like we'd have CPU compatability with 8086 programs 10-20 years later, right? ;) PS - Francois, thanks for the tracks FAQ. While everyone was buying their copies of N3 this week, I got a copy of NR1999 for $18 at the EB for the unique tracks inside (hey, I had GPL to play the past year, why would I want NR1999? :) "But in a way, fear is a big part of racing, because if there was nothing to be frightened of, and no limit, any fool could get into a motor car and racing would not exist as a sport." -- Jim Clark

Withya on this one Jeff. 14 months ago I put together a Celeron/Herc Thriller system to play GPL, which it does very nicely. BTW I tried a 12Meg Voodoo 2 in it as well, which I found IMHO to be inferior to the Thriller for GPL. I really think Papy have scored an own goal with many fans as rendition support in 12 months has gone from being top of the heap for Papy sims, to what sounds like an extremely limited implementation for N3 via D3D by all accounts. Again, I used a V1000 card for a time before the Thriller on my old P200 - as it was the ONLY chipset for ICR2/N2. Now I need to think that as well as buying N3, I apparently need to either buy a V2 or a V3 - will be expensive. ian

I was lucky on my timing. I replaced my old ATI/RagePro (which sucked for GPL...wasnt even playable) with a new V3 2000 which runs GPL like a dream. It also has D3d support and it works with almost all my games/sims cause its a 3dfx chipset. The fact that i got the V3 instead of a Thriller or other Rendition card was based on the fact i knew it wouldnt be supported much longer by anyone. I really feel for the guys who layed out the cash for a new Rendition back when GPL was new. Chris "Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass."--Mark Twain

> Rendition cards can't be used anymore, (never mind that THEY were >HARPING the THRILLER 3D experience just a short while ago in their OWN >magazine for INDY2!) Am I missing something or will D3D not run on a Rendition card? Cheers! John

% Rendition cards can't be used anymore, (never mind that THEY were % HARPING the THRILLER 3D experience just a short while ago in their OWN % magazine for INDY2!) They are moving in the right direction to hardware support. And thank goodness they still provide a "generic" controller input interface. However, I would be a happier camper, if they gave us a new CART based sim so I could get rid of my Rendition for ICR2 <G> -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

You know, you guys give me a pain in the butt. You whine that it ain't GPL. You whine that they don't support every freak graphics card on the market. (Rendition is dead. Live with it. I had to.) You whine that it ain't out on time then whine because it ain't perfect. You want every feature to work perfectly on every piece of hardware no matter what bizarre combination of modules are slapped together by the local screen door & computer upgrade company. I bet you even whine when your mommy won't make your favorite din-din. Think about it, Oh Intelligent one. I'll bet you have no problem dropping a bundle to go see Smashmouth or a bazzabaw game or a NASCAR race (or whatever other instant gratification floats your boat), at which you net maybe three or four hours of euphoria. But for a lousy fifty bucks (or less) you get hundreds of hours of enjoyment with a Papyrus sim, no matter what the flavor. Are they perfect? No. Are they worth the money? To me they are, and I'll continue to buy everything Papy sells until I don't think I'm getting my buck's worth. If you don't like Papyrus, don't buy their products. If you're going to buy a Papyrus product, expect a patch later on. They've put out a patch for every sim they've ever sold since Indy Car Racing. Would you rather they just say "Screw it. It's good enough," and not support their products once they hit the market, (like Crammond, for instance?) I, for one, can remember a time when there were no racing simulations -- only arcade jokes like "Pole Position." Papyrus changed all that. Papyrus has given me thousands of hours of fun in their line of sims, in Hawaii and in NROS. I'll bet there's many more who feel as I do, and are also tired of the constant pissing and moaning about the trivial..

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> Now, I JUST CAN'T WAIT for the patch ! Since we were BLESSED with > a PATCH in GPL, I am sure their hard work and dedication will give us > a unique experience. > Rendition cards can't be used anymore, (never mind that THEY were > HARPING the THRILLER 3D experience just a short while ago in their OWN > magazine for INDY2!) > Give them time to work on it, I am sure you will say. > "It just came out, giove them time to work out the bugs." > Then it will be ready for the garbage, in case it hasn't ended up > there already!

-- Bob Curtin Worcester Area Strategy & Tactics Exchange http://www.tiac.net/users/ten10ths/ "If God had intended men to join the Army he would have given us green, baggy skin"

Open the box. What's in the box is better than what you are imagining. -Larry

I'm with you on all points, well said. N2 has always been on my drive, and I was thrilled when they released a 3dfx patch for it. GPL is phenominal. When it comes to getting a bang for my *** buck, Papyrus has always done the job well. Zog

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> You know, you guys give me a pain in the butt. You whine that it ain't > GPL. You whine that they don't support every freak graphics card on the > market. (Rendition is dead. Live with it. I had to.) You whine that it > ain't out on time then whine because it ain't perfect. You want every > feature to work perfectly on every piece of hardware no matter what > bizarre combination of modules are slapped together by the local screen > door & computer upgrade company. I bet you even whine when your mommy > won't make your favorite din-din. > Think about it, Oh Intelligent one. I'll bet you have no problem dropping > a bundle to go see Smashmouth or a bazzabaw game or a NASCAR race (or > whatever other instant gratification floats your boat), at which you net > maybe three or four hours of euphoria. But for a lousy fifty bucks (or > less) you get hundreds of hours of enjoyment with a Papyrus sim, no matter > what the flavor. Are they perfect? No. Are they worth the money? To me > they are, and I'll continue to buy everything Papy sells until I don't > think I'm getting my buck's worth. > If you don't like Papyrus, don't buy their products. If you're going to > buy a Papyrus product, expect a patch later on. They've put out a patch > for every sim they've ever sold since Indy Car Racing. Would you rather > they just say "Screw it. It's good enough," and not support their > products once they hit the market, (like Crammond, for instance?) > I, for one, can remember a time when there were no racing simulations -- > only arcade jokes like "Pole Position." Papyrus changed all that. > Papyrus has given me thousands of hours of fun in their line of sims, in > Hawaii and in NROS. I'll bet there's many more who feel as I do, and are > also tired of the constant pissing and moaning about the trivial.. > > Now, I JUST CAN'T WAIT for the patch ! Since we were BLESSED with > > a PATCH in GPL, I am sure their hard work and dedication will give us > > a unique experience. > > Rendition cards can't be used anymore, (never mind that THEY were > > HARPING the THRILLER 3D experience just a short while ago in their OWN > > magazine for INDY2!) > > Give them time to work on it, I am sure you will say. > > "It just came out, giove them time to work out the bugs." > > Then it will be ready for the garbage, in case it hasn't ended up > > there already! > -- > Bob Curtin > Worcester Area Strategy & Tactics Exchange > http://www.tiac.net/users/ten10ths/ > "If God had intended men to join the Army he would have given us green, > baggy skin"