good times in viper racing?

What are considered good times in viper racing for each track? I'm down to 1:49.47 on dundas. I'm using a microsoft FF wheel and I'm using button X as brakes (abs on full to do this) and i'm using the brake pedal as a clutch. Also, what are the record times for each track? thanks!

I changed my setup from moderate understeer (this was the 1st time I played the game in a while and i didn't wanna get frustrated from constantly spinning out) to a near neutral setup and I got down to 1:47.52. I think if I set it to absolute neutral, I should be able to get below 1:47. :) P.S. How does viper racing compare to GPL in difficulty? I know GPl is tougher, but how much? (by comparison, like nfs4 is impossible to spin out and is fairly unrealistic vs. viper racing, or some comparison like that) thanks!

darn...guess i've got a ways to go...practice practice!! I'm reffering to the stock viper, in quick race mode. Another 5 seconds to shave off... Anybody know any websites for setups in viper racing? I experimented with giving the car a more neutral -> oversteer feel, but with that setup the backend was always heading towards the wall and I was getting slower times in the end. thanks!

well i'm down to 1:45.96 I find that if I'm coming up to anyone of the sharper turns and I get on the brakes, then when I'm at the top end of the 3rd gear range, i put the car in 3rd gear, if i'm in the turn, this results in the back end going out and thus a slower turn. SO, I'm curious as to what everyone else does, do you do the same thing i'm doing? or do you put it into 4th first, and then when you're slowed down more put it into 3rd? OR do you do all your braking before you start to turn and just go from 5th or 6th directly to 3rd? thanks!

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> darn...guess i've got a ways to go...practice practice!! > I'm reffering to the stock viper, in quick race mode. > Another 5 seconds to shave off... > Anybody know any websites for setups in viper racing? > I experimented with giving the car a more neutral -> oversteer feel, but > with that setup the backend was always heading towards the wall and I was > getting slower times in the end. > thanks! > > Been some time since I keep up with Viper Racing. What car are you > refering > > to-The regular Quick Race car of the GT-R. I consider myself very SLOW, > > especially at Dundas and with the regular Viper my best time was 1:42:52 > and > > with the GT-R 1:28:84. Based on how slow my times were, you have a way > to go > > to approach good times. Paul

I won't post anybody else's records here, but these are the times I've submitted for the CompuServe Viper Racing Club. We differentiate between quick race (Q/S) and career mode, and we also track what level in career (to enable us to compare basic upgrade levels), and we also allow hotlap submissions with the GTSR "hack." FYI, I only use ABS on the lowest level -- the auto-clutch and manual shift option seems to work very well; I've never tried using a clutch, as the braking is the most critical part of some turns, and strategic lockup is needed at times, which is defeated by using full ABS support. I'm not the fastest person in the club, but I'm up in the top 2-5 usually: Viper Racing Club Hot Laps Chart 9-05-99 Bemidji John Bodin 0:31.50 Career/GT ABS, Auto-Clutch John Bodin 0:33.13 Q/S-GTSR ABS, Auto-Clutch John Bodin 0:37.08 Q/S Auto-Clutch Bemidji Reversed John Bodin 0:32.94 Career/Pro ABS, Auto-Clutch John Bodin 0:35.98 Q/S Auto-Clutch Castlegreen John Bodin 1:14.43 Q/S-GTSR ABS, Auto-Clutch John Bodin 1:16.97 Career/GT ABS, Auto-Clutch John Bodin 1:28.86 Q/S Auto-Clutch Castlegreen Reversed John Bodin 1:24.19 Career/Pro ABS, Auto-Clutch John Bodin 1:29.68 Q/S Auto-Clutch Dayton John Bodin 0:53.63 Q/S-GTSR ABS, Auto-Clutch John Bodin 0:55.12 Career/GT ABS, Auto-Clutch John Bodin 0:58.54 Career/Pro ABS, Auto-Clutch Dayton Reversed John Bodin 0:54.06 Q/S-GTSR ABS, Auto-Clutch John Bodin 0:56.14 Career/Pro ABS, Auto-Clutch John Bodin 1:01.60 Q/S Auto-Clutch Silverdale John Bodin 0:53.93 Career/GT ABS, Auto-Clutch John Bodin 0:56.75 Career/Pro ABS, Auto-Clutch John Bodin 1:01.60 Q/S Auto-Clutch Silverdale Reversed John Bodin 0:59.85 Career/Pro ABS, Auto-Clutch John Bodin 1:03.80 Q/S Auto-Clutch Ridge Valley John Bodin 1:22.30 Q/S-GTSR ABS, Auto-Clutch John Bodin 1:23.96 Career/GT ABS, Auto-Clutch John Bodin 1:27.96 Career/Pro ABS, Auto-Clutch Ridge Valley Reversed John Bodin 1:41.64 Q/S ABS, Auto-Clutch Sunset Mesa John Bodin 1:57.45 Q/S-GTSR ABS, Auto-Clutch John Bodin 2:24.32 Q/S Auto-Clutch Sunset Mesa Reversed John Bodin 2:03.31 Career/GT ABS, Auto-Clutch John Bodin 2:26.73 Q/S Auto-Clutch Dundas John Bodin 1:28.86 Career/GT ABS, Auto-Clutch John Bodin 1:40.91 Career/Club ABS, Auto-Clutch Dundas Reversed John Bodin 1:34.97 Career/Pro ABS, Auto-Clutch Rock Island John Bodin 1:27.58 Career/GT ABS, Auto-Clutch John Bodin 1:28.92 Career/Pro ABS, Auto-Clutch >What are considered good times in viper racing for each track? >I'm down to 1:49.47 on dundas. >I'm using a microsoft FF wheel and I'm using button X as brakes (abs on full >to do this) and i'm using the brake pedal as a clutch. >Also, what are the record times for each track? >thanks!

Been some time since I keep up with Viper Racing. What car are you refering to-The regular Quick Race car of the GT-R. I consider myself very SLOW, especially at Dundas and with the regular Viper my best time was 1:42:52 and with the GT-R 1:28:84. Based on how slow my times were, you have a way to go to approach good times. Paul

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> What are considered good times in viper racing for each track? > I'm down to 1:49.47 on dundas. > I'm using a microsoft FF wheel and I'm using button X as brakes (abs on full > to do this) and i'm using the brake pedal as a clutch. > Also, what are the record times for each track? > thanks!

down to 1:44.22 :) I found that braking before the turn gives me best results..

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> I just found a we page that listed records, race results, setups and all > that good stuff... > Your time of 1:42 at dundas is very good, the record is 1:39 > My time of 1:47 isn't great, but i saw people with worse times... > the web page is: http://netrex.sim-racing.net/Viper/ if anybody wants to > know > > darn...guess i've got a ways to go...practice practice!! > > I'm reffering to the stock viper, in quick race mode. > > Another 5 seconds to shave off... > > Anybody know any websites for setups in viper racing? > > I experimented with giving the car a more neutral -> oversteer feel, but > > with that setup the backend was always heading towards the wall and I

was > > getting slower times in the end. > > thanks!

As I implied earlier I'm no expert at Viper but when I was playing it regularly I always tried to be at the right speed and in the right gear well prior to the apex. Maybe I was too conservative, but if I didn't I tended to get in trouble. As Rrevved said in his earlier post GPL is harder to drive than Viper but Viper is a hell of a lot harder to drive than any other sim I've tried. It makes SCGT, even with all the patches, seem like an arcade game. I also believe it is harder than ICR2 and equal too if not a little harder to drive than GP2. Just my opinion.Paul

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> well i'm down to 1:45.96 > I find that if I'm coming up to anyone of the sharper turns and I get on the > brakes, then when I'm at the top end of the 3rd gear range, i put the car in > 3rd gear, if i'm in the turn, this results in the back end going out and > thus a slower turn. SO, I'm curious as to what everyone else does, do you do > the same thing i'm doing? or do you put it into 4th first, and then when > you're slowed down more put it into 3rd? OR do you do all your braking > before you start to turn and just go from 5th or 6th directly to 3rd? > thanks! > > darn...guess i've got a ways to go...practice practice!! > > I'm reffering to the stock viper, in quick race mode. > > Another 5 seconds to shave off... > > Anybody know any websites for setups in viper racing? > > I experimented with giving the car a more neutral -> oversteer feel, but > > with that setup the backend was always heading towards the wall and I was > > getting slower times in the end. > > thanks! > > > Been some time since I keep up with Viper Racing. What car are you > > refering > > > to-The regular Quick Race car of the GT-R. I consider myself very SLOW, > > > especially at Dundas and with the regular Viper my best time was 1:42:52 > > and > > > with the GT-R 1:28:84. Based on how slow my times were, you have a way > > to go > > > to approach good times. Paul

Here's my take on the Viper vs. GPL issue: GPL is the most accurate automobile simulation to date. Viper Racing is the only thing that even comes close (and it's not all that far behind), and then I'd rank Powerslide (yes, the arcade racer from Ratbag) as the third-best physics engine (SCGT works well enough, but to me it either doesn't model or doesn't convey vehicle dynamics as well as Viper Racing or Powerslide). As far as Viper Racing goes, some people say it's too easy to spin out from a standing start, for example, and cite this as a sign of how unrealistic it is. If you consider the type of vehicle they're modeling (front engine, rear-drive, tail-happy sports/GT) and the amount of horsepower a Viper has (300+ hp?), then you begin to understand that a real Viper just MIGHT be that touchy. If you've ever driven a small truck (a Chevy S-10 or such) with a V-6 engine or a torquey 4-cylinder, then you might have some idea of how easy it can be to break the rear end loose on an average vehicle, and the Viper is in the 300+hp range, so it's got to be fairly touchy/twitchy. Keeping this in mind, Viper Racing just feels right to me. Powerslide, on the other hand, does a great job of modeling generic vehicle types (imaginary futuristic racers and a few nondescript doppelgangers of more contemporary street and off-road vehicles). The physics model is communcative, lively, predictable, and when you put all that together, it just FEELS right. Powerslide feels alive and realistic to me -- so much so that it's hard for me to classify it as an arcade racer in the same category as things like NFS (or even the SCGT category, which is definitely a step above the arcade racer genre, but definitely near the bottom rungs of the simulation ladder). I've argued in the past that Viper Racing and GPL are virtually equal in the simulation department. GPL does the best job ever of modeling of a 1967 Grand Prix racer, while Viper Racing does the best job ever of modeling a 1990s *** front-engine, rear-drive sports car. I list Powerslide in this same league because I think it does the best job ever of modeling a generic, nondescript high-horsepower vehicle -- as I said, NFS and SCGT would do well to emulate the lively, communicative modeling that Ratbag has achieved with Powerslide. FWIW, I do own the full version of SCGT, and I've played around with it quite extensively, but I just haven't found it as satisfying as my own personal favorites (GPL, Viper Racing, and Powerslide). That's my $0.02 - and then some! <G> -- JB

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>I changed my setup from moderate understeer (this was the 1st time I played >the game in a while and i didn't wanna get frustrated from constantly >spinning out) to a near neutral setup and I got down to 1:47.52. I think if >I set it to absolute neutral, I should be able to get below 1:47. :) >P.S. How does viper racing compare to GPL in difficulty? >I know GPl is tougher, but how much? (by comparison, like nfs4 is

impossible

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>to spin out and is fairly unrealistic vs. viper racing, or some comparison >like that) >thanks! >> What are considered good times in viper racing for each track? >> I'm down to 1:49.47 on dundas. >> I'm using a microsoft FF wheel and I'm using button X as brakes (abs on >full >> to do this) and i'm using the brake pedal as a clutch. >> Also, what are the record times for each track? >> thanks!

I downloaded the demo of SCGT and I just plain didn't like it, maybe thats because I only played for 5 minutes, but I just didn't like it, period! Viper racing on the other hand is loads of fun! I agree with your opinion. I find that the viper GTS-R is almost impossible to get off the line without spinning the tires like crazy, but you'd expect that with 720bhp on tap! The regular GTS is quite easy to get off the line as long as you don't just redline it in neutral and then put it in 1st. A car should spin the tires easier when you turn the wheel hard to the left or right, when you do that you set the cars balance off, so a tire lets loose... > Here's my take on the Viper vs. GPL issue: > GPL is the most accurate automobile simulation to date. Viper Racing is the > only thing that even comes close (and it's not all that far behind), and > then I'd rank Powerslide (yes, the arcade racer from Ratbag) as the > third-best physics engine (SCGT works well enough, but to me it either > doesn't model or doesn't convey vehicle dynamics as well as Viper Racing or > Powerslide). > As far as Viper Racing goes, some people say it's too easy to spin out from > a standing start, for example, and cite this as a sign of how unrealistic it > is. If you consider the type of vehicle they're modeling (front engine, > rear-drive, tail-happy sports/GT) and the amount of horsepower a Viper has > (300+ hp?), then you begin to understand that a real Viper just MIGHT be > that touchy. If you've ever driven a small truck (a Chevy S-10 or such) > with a V-6 engine or a torquey 4-cylinder, then you might have some idea of > how easy it can be to break the rear end loose on an average vehicle, and > the Viper is in the 300+hp range, so it's got to be fairly touchy/twitchy. > Keeping this in mind, Viper Racing just feels right to me. > Powerslide, on the other hand, does a great job of modeling generic vehicle > types (imaginary futuristic racers and a few nondescript doppelgangers of > more contemporary street and off-road vehicles). The physics model is > communcative, lively, predictable, and when you put all that together, it > just FEELS right. Powerslide feels alive and realistic to me -- so much so > that it's hard for me to classify it as an arcade racer in the same category > as things like NFS (or even the SCGT category, which is definitely a step > above the arcade racer genre, but definitely near the bottom rungs of the > simulation ladder). > I've argued in the past that Viper Racing and GPL are virtually equal in the > simulation department. GPL does the best job ever of modeling of a 1967 > Grand Prix racer, while Viper Racing does the best job ever of modeling a > 1990s *** front-engine, rear-drive sports car. I list Powerslide in this > same league because I think it does the best job ever of modeling a generic, > nondescript high-horsepower vehicle -- as I said, NFS and SCGT would do well > to emulate the lively, communicative modeling that Ratbag has achieved with

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> Powerslide. > FWIW, I do own the full version of SCGT, and I've played around with it > quite extensively, but I just haven't found it as satisfying as my own > personal favorites (GPL, Viper Racing, and Powerslide). > That's my $0.02 - and then some! <G> > -- JB > >I changed my setup from moderate understeer (this was the 1st time I

played > >the game in a while and i didn't wanna get frustrated from constantly > >spinning out) to a near neutral setup and I got down to 1:47.52. I think if > >I set it to absolute neutral, I should be able to get below 1:47. :) > >P.S. How does viper racing compare to GPL in difficulty? > >I know GPl is tougher, but how much? (by comparison, like nfs4 is > impossible > >to spin out and is fairly unrealistic vs. viper racing, or some comparison

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> >like that) > >thanks! > >> What are considered good times in viper racing for each track? > >> I'm down to 1:49.47 on dundas. > >> I'm using a microsoft FF wheel and I'm using button X as brakes (abs on > >full > >> to do this) and i'm using the brake pedal as a clutch. > >> Also, what are the record times for each track? > >> thanks!

Your right, slowing down before the apex allows me to get through the turn much faster, I used to be slowing down to 70mph when I was stil braking in the turn, but if I brake before the turn, I can get through in the mid-high 80's, sometimes even 90! I found viper much harder to drive than a lot of other sims too, except CART precision racing, i found that game extremely hard, but that's probably because I didn't really know the tracks, so i was always too fast or too slow, mostly too fast. > As I implied earlier I'm no expert at Viper but when I was playing it > regularly I always tried to be at the right speed and in the right gear well > prior to the apex. Maybe I was too conservative, but if I didn't I tended to > get in trouble. > As Rrevved said in his earlier post GPL is harder to drive than Viper but > Viper is a hell of a lot harder to drive than any other sim I've tried. It > makes SCGT, even with all the patches, seem like an arcade game. I also believe > it is harder than ICR2 and equal too if not a little harder to drive than GP2.

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> Just my opinion.Paul > > well i'm down to 1:45.96 > > I find that if I'm coming up to anyone of the sharper turns and I get on

the > > brakes, then when I'm at the top end of the 3rd gear range, i put the car in > > 3rd gear, if i'm in the turn, this results in the back end going out and > > thus a slower turn. SO, I'm curious as to what everyone else does, do you do

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> > the same thing i'm doing? or do you put it into 4th first, and then when > > you're slowed down more put it into 3rd? OR do you do all your braking > > before you start to turn and just go from 5th or 6th directly to 3rd? > > thanks! > > > darn...guess i've got a ways to go...practice practice!! > > > I'm reffering to the stock viper, in quick race mode. > > > Another 5 seconds to shave off... > > > Anybody know any websites for setups in viper racing? > > > I experimented with giving the car a more neutral -> oversteer feel,

but > > > with that setup the backend was always heading towards the wall and I was

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> > > getting slower times in the end. > > > thanks! > > > > Been some time since I keep up with Viper Racing. What car are you > > > refering > > > > to-The regular Quick Race car of the GT-R. I consider myself very

SLOW, > > > > especially at Dundas and with the regular Viper my best time was 1:42:52 > > > and > > > > with the GT-R 1:28:84. Based on how slow my times were, you have a way > > > to go > > > > to approach good times. Paul

thanks! I'm down to 1:43.96 :) I'm using low ABS and manual clutch (pedal) The microsoft FF wheel isn't very good for having the clutch as a button, because when you turn the wheel hard in either direction, its extremely hard to hit the clutch and shift at the same time, while with the pedal its easy as pie, i just have to use a button for brakes (right now).

down to 1:43.42 now :) And I can do laps at that speed for hours with the setup i'm using, I think I may be able to get a little more speed if I set it up for oversteer, but then I'd fall into the "hotlapper" category, except at normal speeds. I think I can get a little more speed and still be under control if i play with the gearing a little bit. any advice?

yay, i'm down to 1:42.95 I have a question for you guys though, in the esses, do you guys cut accross at all? or just stay on the road?

I enjoy hotlapping (or trying to, anyway) -- what I do is take a hotlap setup, get to the point where I can be VERY consistent with it, and then try to run different lines with it. Running different lines teaches you what you need to know to avoid other cars, so it's good to know how to do that. <G> When I'm ready to race, I take my hotlap setup, and then "detune" it a bit (more wing, softer shock settings, etc.). When "detuning" a hotlap setup, I try to achieve stability and controllability over ultimate speed (or lap speed). If I come up with a race setup that's a few seconds off my personal best, but it's more controllable, I usually find that I can run rings around the AI. Hotlapping teaches you how to go fast, but the AI helps teach you how to race. If you can't complete a race without ramming the AI cars (unless it's a pileup situation that they've caused or such), then you're probably not ready to race against humans. This is how I prepared for racing GPL online, and while I've never been a spectacular performer, I've also never punted anybody who was driving a good line, and I seldom get in anybody's way, or caused problems when I'm slower. I just wish Viper Racing was as online-friendly as GPL. :-( -- JB

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>down to 1:43.42 now :) >And I can do laps at that speed for hours with the setup i'm using, I think >I may be able to get a little more speed if I set it up for oversteer, but >then I'd fall into the "hotlapper" category, except at normal speeds. I >think I can get a little more speed and still be under control if i play >with the gearing a little bit. any advice? >> What are considered good times in viper racing for each track? >> I'm down to 1:49.47 on dundas. >> I'm using a microsoft FF wheel and I'm using button X as brakes (abs on >full >> to do this) and i'm using the brake pedal as a clutch. >> Also, what are the record times for each track? >> thanks!

My best advice: FORGET about the manual clutch -- use the auto-clutch feature and stick with manual shifting. Your brakes are FAR more important than the clutch EVER will be, and the manual clutch is a dubious waste of time if you don't have a third pedal in place. You need to be able to feather the brakes (i.e., apply partial brakes) while entering a turn, and you also need to be able to use partial brakes (rather than full brakes) without relying on ABS to fake it for you. I only use low ABS to simply help prevent unwanted lockup -- without any pressure feedback, it's virtually impossible to feather the brakes consistently every time, and the low ABS setting helps prevent lockup during those times when I get a little too deep into the brake pedal (especially in panic situations). You really need to stay with the manual shifting, because with the right gearing, you can use drivetrain braking to help slow you down -- on the last big left-hander at Castlegreen, for example, if I'm not coming in too hot ro attempting a pass, I use a quick downshift to slow me down, rather than touching the brakes. This gets me through the corner much faster, scrubbing off less speed, and since I've got to downshift anyway for the exit, I'm already in the right gear to accelerate away every time through. Manual shifting is VERY important for this very reason. Manual braking is THE MOST important aspect, though, and settling for "digital" (on/off) braking in favor of a clutch is NOT the way to go fast. The clutch feature is nice if you happen to have a third pedal, and both my cars in real-life have 5-speeds, so I really like a manual *** with a clutch, but in a sim it's a bit of overkill, and I would NEVER give up a proportional brake pedal in favor of a clutch. Have I mentioned yet that I would forget about the clutch feature if I were you? Just checking! <G> Hope this helps! -- John Bodin Publisher, The IRL Insider Magazine http://irlinsider.adnetweb.com/ Check out our sim site, too -- [link lost in import] >thanks! >I'm down to 1:43.96 :) >I'm using low ABS and manual clutch (pedal) >The microsoft FF wheel isn't very good for having the clutch as a button, >because when you turn the wheel hard in either direction, its extremely hard

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>to hit the clutch and shift at the same time, while with the pedal its easy >as pie, i just have to use a button for brakes (right now). >> I won't post anybody else's records here, but these are the times I've >> submitted for the CompuServe Viper Racing Club. We differentiate between >> quick race (Q/S) and career mode, and we also track what level in career >(to >> enable us to compare basic upgrade levels), and we also allow hotlap >> submissions with the GTSR "hack." FYI, I only use ABS on the lowest >> level -- the auto-clutch and manual shift option seems to work very well; >> I've never tried using a clutch, as the braking is the most critical part >of >> some turns, and strategic lockup is needed at times, which is defeated by >> using full ABS support. I'm not the fastest person in the club, but I'm >up >> in the top 2-5 usually: >> Viper Racing Club Hot Laps Chart 9-05-99 >> Bemidji >> John Bodin 0:31.50 Career/GT ABS, Auto-Clutch >> John Bodin 0:33.13 Q/S-GTSR ABS, Auto-Clutch >> John Bodin 0:37.08 Q/S Auto-Clutch >> Bemidji Reversed >> John Bodin 0:32.94 Career/Pro ABS, Auto-Clutch >> John Bodin 0:35.98 Q/S Auto-Clutch >> Castlegreen >> John Bodin 1:14.43 Q/S-GTSR ABS, Auto-Clutch >> John Bodin 1:16.97 Career/GT ABS, Auto-Clutch >> John Bodin 1:28.86 Q/S Auto-Clutch >> Castlegreen Reversed >> John Bodin 1:24.19 Career/Pro ABS, Auto-Clutch >> John Bodin 1:29.68 Q/S Auto-Clutch >> Dayton >> John Bodin 0:53.63 Q/S-GTSR ABS, Auto-Clutch >> John Bodin 0:55.12 Career/GT ABS, Auto-Clutch >> John Bodin 0:58.54 Career/Pro ABS, Auto-Clutch >> Dayton Reversed >> John Bodin 0:54.06 Q/S-GTSR ABS, Auto-Clutch >> John Bodin 0:56.14 Career/Pro ABS, Auto-Clutch >> John Bodin 1:01.60 Q/S Auto-Clutch >> Silverdale >> John Bodin 0:53.93 Career/GT ABS, Auto-Clutch >> John Bodin 0:56.75 Career/Pro ABS, Auto-Clutch >> John Bodin 1:01.60 Q/S Auto-Clutch >> Silverdale Reversed >> John Bodin 0:59.85 Career/Pro ABS, Auto-Clutch >> John Bodin 1:03.80 Q/S Auto-Clutch >> Ridge Valley >> John Bodin 1:22.30 Q/S-GTSR ABS, Auto-Clutch >> John Bodin 1:23.96 Career/GT ABS, Auto-Clutch >> John Bodin 1:27.96 Career/Pro ABS, Auto-Clutch >> Ridge Valley Reversed >> John Bodin 1:41.64 Q/S ABS, Auto-Clutch >> Sunset Mesa >> John Bodin 1:57.45 Q/S-GTSR ABS, Auto-Clutch >> John Bodin 2:24.32 Q/S Auto-Clutch >> Sunset Mesa Reversed >> John Bodin 2:03.31 Career/GT ABS, Auto-Clutch >> John Bodin 2:26.73 Q/S Auto-Clutch >> Dundas >> John Bodin 1:28.86 Career/GT ABS, Auto-Clutch >> John Bodin 1:40.91 Career/Club ABS, Auto-Clutch >> Dundas Reversed >> John Bodin 1:34.97 Career/Pro ABS, Auto-Clutch >> Rock Island >> John Bodin 1:27.58 Career/GT ABS, Auto-Clutch >> John Bodin 1:28.92 Career/Pro ABS, Auto-Clutch

You mean the esses near the bus stops and the water fountain? I do occasionally drop a tire off the pavement through this section (most notably at the fountain, where you can do so without getting into the grass. -- JB >yay, i'm down to 1:42.95 >I have a question for you guys though, in the esses, do you guys cut accross >at all? or just stay on the road?

that's where I have a problem... On dundas (the main track i'm practicing on right now) I can win easily under quick race under easy and normal mode, but under hard mode, i'm afraid to brake deep like i usually do because i'll ram one of the ai cars and send both of us into a spin. This causes my lap times to be slower and thus I can't get to the front! Guess I'm gonna get me a hotlapping setup...

awww!! but the clutch pedal is ffffuuunnn!! but, i'll try your advice. I find that I get a better turn if I give it some gas mid turn to get the back end a little lose, thus putting be in the right direction, rather than going into the wall otherwise. clutch, clutch, clutch, clutch! I'm gonna hook up another set of pedals to a joystick card (i don't have any usb joysticks, the ms FF wasn't available in usb when i bought it), so that i can have my clutch! ok, so you want me to forget about the brake feature, got it! j/k only track time will tell..

well, track time has told I can upshift quicker than the computer does it, but downshifting is a different story. When approaching a turn I used to just nail the clutch, downshift to 3 (clutch still down), slam on the brakes, then when I was down to 100, 105 I'd let the clutch go. Doing that eliminated all engine braking. But, when the computer does the clutch work for me, it goes through all the gears, thus giving me engine braking and much shorter stopping distances. My times have actually gone up by a second, but thats mostly because I'm not quite comfortable with the auto-clutch setup yet. I think that once I'm comfortable with it, i'll be quicker with the auto-clutch than without.

yep, those esses... I take a uh...major shortcut...like over a big pile of grass... Where the fountain and bus stop are, I just keep going straight (over the grass) and end up in perfect position for the big left hand turn, with a good amount of speed too.

the track has told some more: I am much much smoother with the auto-clutch than when I was doin the clutch work. I am setting the car up very differently with the auto-clutch than without, I'm dialing in a neutral --> slightly oversteering car.

>> I enjoy hotlapping (or trying to, anyway) -- what I do is take a hotlap >> setup, get to the point where I can be VERY consistent with it, and then >try >> to run different lines with it. Running different lines teaches you what >> you need to know to avoid other cars, so it's good to know how to do that. >> <G> >that's where I have a problem... >On dundas (the main track i'm practicing on right now) I can win easily >under quick race under easy and normal mode, but under hard mode, i'm afraid >to brake deep like i usually do because i'll ram one of the ai cars and send >both of us into a spin. This causes my lap times to be slower and thus I >can't get to the front! There are really two setup choices at Dundas -- use VERY little wing and blow by the AI cars on the long straight stretch, or use a LOT of wing to make your car faster and more stable (LOTS more stable) in the turns, which will allow you to carry more speed through the turns and run the different lines necessary to blow by the AI on the outside or inside. I think my race setup at Dundas is typically a higher-downforce setup, but I try to make sure that the AI can't run away from me on the straights. bit >> (more wing, softer shock settings, etc.). When "detuning" a hotlap setup,

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>I >> try to achieve stability and controllability over ultimate speed (or lap >> speed). If I come up with a race setup that's a few seconds off my >personal >> best, but it's more controllable, I usually find that I can run rings >around >> the AI. >> Hotlapping teaches you how to go fast, but the AI helps teach you how to >> race. If you can't complete a race without ramming the AI cars (unless >it's >> a pileup situation that they've caused or such), then you're probably not >> ready to race against humans. This is how I prepared for racing GPL >online, >> and while I've never been a spectacular performer, I've also never punted >> anybody who was driving a good line, and I seldom get in anybody's way,

or >> caused problems when I'm slower. >Guess I'm gonna get me a hotlapping setup... >> I just wish Viper Racing was as online-friendly as GPL. :-( Darn good question -- I've raced Viper Racing on my local LAN, but never online. I've heard that it doesn't do so well online, but I've never tested it.

>yep, those esses... >I take a uh...major shortcut...like over a big pile of grass... >Where the fountain and bus stop are, I just keep going straight (over the >grass) and end up in perfect position for the big left hand turn, with a >good amount of speed too. LOL! I don't think I've ever used this "line" through that corner (at least not on purpose). With a good high-downforce setup, your car should be glued to the track through the esses, and all you should have to do is gently guide it through the sequence of turns. I can't recall what speed I'm able to maintain through that segment, but it seems like do that segment travelling in the 135 mph range, I think. I do know that I often use the benefits of my higher-downforce setup to use that as a passing zone, occasionally taking the AI on the outside line right at the fountain, so a stable, controllable setup can be a real benefit. -- JB >> You mean the esses near the bus stops and the water fountain? I do >> occasionally drop a tire off the pavement through this section (most >notably >> at the fountain, where you can do so without getting into the grass. >> -- JB

If I actually went on the road through the esses, only coming off the road a little bit, I can usually get through at around 145mph, sometimes even 150mph, but when i get up to the left hand turn i needa downshift to 5 to stop myself from going off the road. If I do the cut accros I can go up that left turn full throttle. I'm using 65 wind up front, 50 in the back. So I guess I'm right in the middle. Perhaps I'll give more wing a shot...

writes: This doesn't make sense. If the speed to go through the turn is 90, why are there times when you can't get thru at 70? Eldred __ Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc If all the world's a stage, where is the audience sitting? remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

?? that's not what i said, what i said was that when i was braking in the turn, i could only get through at 70 because I was sliding, but when i braked before the turn, i can get through at 90. With auto-clutch that doesn't really effect the turn much, when i was using manual clutch, the time i put it in 3rd had to be before the turn, otherwise the back end would go out.