GPL/F10/ Who is a Man ?

To all : Drive with F10 ? play with playstation is better for you and us. Drive with F10 ? you kill all real sim. Drive with F10 ? you play videogames like the childrens Drive with F10 ? come back to house and stop talking If you are a man try to go fast without F10 Many thanks to all F10 players for kill the hot laps board. Matteo Calestani

Sigh.... On Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:06:46 +0200, "Matteo Calestani"

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>To all : >Drive with F10 ? play with playstation is better for you and us. >Drive with F10 ? you kill all real sim. >Drive with F10 ? you play videogames like the childrens >Drive with F10 ? come back to house and stop talking >If you are a man try to go fast without F10 >Many thanks to all F10 players for kill the hot laps board. >Matteo Calestani

Matteo, Real men can go as fast in chase view as they do in car view. Keith.

Do I detect some sour grapes here, just cos you can't go as fast? The tracks still have the same corners which view you look at it from. I don't like F10 because it doesn't seem real to me, but those who do use it such as Wolfgang demand respect, they are all ***y good drivers, jeess.... Andy

> Do I detect some sour grapes here, just cos you can't go as fast? The tracks > still have the same corners which view you look at it from. I don't like F10 > because it doesn't seem real to me, but those who do use it such as Wolfgang > demand respect, they are all ***y good drivers, jeess.... Actually Matteo is pretty damn fast if you ask me - he just came 11th in the World Championship! I think he may have a point - I'd like to know which of the top drivers is using the F10 view, in the same way that their hotlaps are marked to show who's using a wheel and who's using a joystick. Then, if it turns out that *all* the top hotlaps are set with F10 view, we may have cause for concern. I mean, I want realism, but if it means I'll never be able to compete on equal terms with the F10 boys, I'd like to know about it! From the point of view of seeing if F10 is really an advantage, it would also be interesting to know just how fast the F10-hotlappers were with the in-car view (yes, I know they will be fast, but: how fast?). Additionally I'd like to know if they're also using F10-view for races, or just for hotlaps.

Hey get a grip on reality. It's only a GAME. Play it how you want, your not out there with Eddie and the boys, who cares!

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>> Do I detect some sour grapes here, just cos you can't go as fast? The tracks >> still have the same corners which view you look at it from. I don't like F10 >> because it doesn't seem real to me, but those who do use it such as Wolfgang >> demand respect, they are all ***y good drivers, jeess.... >I think he may have a point - I'd like to know which of the top drivers >is using the F10 view, in the same way that their hotlaps are marked to >show who's using a wheel and who's using a joystick.

Should we make a FAQ about which view every hotlapper uses and post it here every week? :) -- Greger Huttu

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> >> Do I detect some sour grapes here, just cos you can't go as fast? The tracks > >> still have the same corners which view you look at it from. I don't like F10 > >> because it doesn't seem real to me, but those who do use it such as Wolfgang > >> demand respect, they are all ***y good drivers, jeess.... > >I think he may have a point - I'd like to know which of the top drivers > >is using the F10 view, in the same way that their hotlaps are marked to > >show who's using a wheel and who's using a joystick. > Should we make a FAQ about which view every hotlapper uses and post it > here every week? :)

OK Greger - out with it - which view do you use? ;-) It would reassure me greatly if Wolfie was the exception rather than the rule!

Absolutely ! If for no other reason that when I download a top 10 setup and struggle with trying to figure out how to drive it, I'd like to know it was developed for f10 or in car. -- Don "IN CAR" Scurlock Vancouver,B.C.

What are you talking about!?!?!?! You can only drive fastest without F10, like any sims! In any sim you can't drive fast without being able to feel the car around you and with the arm movements in GPL, you can really know how much to turn pr not to turn with opposite lock, etc....... F10 is to warm-up and get familiar with the track..... why do you want to get rid of it? So nobody can learn to drive? In my opinion, maybe you'll disagree but you have to use***pit view to be able to slide the car around enough to get a good lap time in any sim. But you can't exactly learn a track from looking at it from ground level can you?

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>To all : >Drive with F10 ? play with playstation is better for you and us. >Drive with F10 ? you kill all real sim. >Drive with F10 ? you play videogames like the childrens >Drive with F10 ? come back to house and stop talking >If you are a man try to go fast without F10 >Many thanks to all F10 players for kill the hot laps board. >Matteo Calestani

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> What are you talking about!?!?!?! > You can only drive fastest without F10, like any sims! In any sim you can't > drive fast without being able to feel the car around you and with the arm > movements in GPL, you can really know how much to turn pr not to turn with > opposite lock, etc....... > F10 is to warm-up and get familiar with the track..... why do you want to > get rid of it? So nobody can learn to drive? > In my opinion, maybe you'll disagree but you have to use***pit view to be > able to slide the car around enough to get a good lap time in any sim. But > you can't exactly learn a track from looking at it from ground level can > you?

Erm, take a look at the world-record hotlap boards at Schubi's site ([link lost in import: /~schubi/championsleague/WM.htm] - you'll notice a certain Wolfgang Woeger featuring prominently, and he's a self-confessed F10 user (not only that, but he uses a joystick - argh! ;-) ). If there's an equal mixture of F10-ers and in-car viewers up there, I'd be happy to put it down to personal preference, but if they're all using F10... It would be nice to think that the in-car view actually conferred an advantage as well as being more realistic, but the worry is that that is not the case.

FYI: I'll drive in whatever damn view I want. Or at least up until the point when the "sim" [oh, btw, its still a freaking game -- a very good game in most aspects, but still a game] allows me to sit in a***pit and have full peripheral(sp?) vision and good situational awareness front, back and side. Btw, if to get those so called fast "hotlaps" you drive in a manner which a racer would never drive a car in real life, or you use a setup which is unrealistic or improbably or would simply break the car in real life, then you are, to use your words, "kill all real sim" worse than someone using a different view than you.

>Erm, take a look at the world-record hotlap boards at Schubi's site >([link lost in import: /~schubi/championsleague/WM.htm] - you'll notice a >certain Wolfgang Woeger featuring prominently, and he's a self-confessed >F10 user (not only that, but he uses a joystick - argh! ;-) ). Did you know that Wolfgang uses the***pit view when he is racing online? And did you also know that his times then are very close to his hotlap times? Guess not, ***ing is easier then investigating... Remco

ask Alison Hine ;) McKafre De La Rosa

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>To all : >Drive with F10 ? play with playstation is better for you and us. >Drive with F10 ? you kill all real sim. >Drive with F10 ? you play videogames like the childrens >Drive with F10 ? come back to house and stop talking >If you are a man try to go fast without F10 >Many thanks to all F10 players for kill the hot laps board. >Matteo Calestani

I don't know how -anyone- can play Papy stuff with the F10 view. I'm amazed people can get good times with it. It feels completely alien to me in any game where I use a wheel, but Papy's are worse because the camera follows the car rather than the track (the view of the car never shifts, you only see the rear of it whereas in everything else I've seen you see the car drift about). I'm not complaining, I'm just stunned at the revelation that people can drive from that detached view... Cheers, Mark Reading, UK

Who is a Man? Probably some guy who doesn't spend all his time playing games but, uh, let's not talk about that. :) BD On Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:06:46 +0200, "Matteo Calestani"

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>To all : >Drive with F10 ? play with playstation is better for you and us. >Drive with F10 ? you kill all real sim. >Drive with F10 ? you play videogames like the childrens >Drive with F10 ? come back to house and stop talking >If you are a man try to go fast without F10 >Many thanks to all F10 players for kill the hot laps board. >Matteo Calestani

People are obviously getting bored. The F10 debate went quiet for a while. Now it is back. > To all : > Drive with F10 ? play with playstation is better for you and us. GPL on Playstation? I dont use F10 playing GPL. So if it is a real simulator, why didnt I die when I hit the armco. Not too many kids could beat me around Monza. But my PC is in my office. hmmm.....zzziiippppp. Hey I am a man. 1:28.5 at Monza. So obvioulsy I am still a slow poke. Stop ya whinging. -- Todd Norbury Norbury Technologies

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> >Erm, take a look at the world-record hotlap boards at Schubi's site > >([link lost in import: /~schubi/championsleague/WM.htm] - you'll notice a > >certain Wolfgang Woeger featuring prominently, and he's a self-confessed > >F10 user (not only that, but he uses a joystick - argh! ;-) ). > Did you know that Wolfgang uses the***pit view when he is racing > online? And did you also know that his times then are very close to > his hotlap times? Guess not, ***ing is easier then investigating...

Hold on there a second! I was not complaining - just curious to know whether it was essential to use F10 to get fast times, and also whether guys like WW use F10 in races as well. Guess you answered my question! ;-)

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>> >> Do I detect some sour grapes here, just cos you can't go as fast? The tracks >> >> still have the same corners which view you look at it from. I don't like F10 >> >> because it doesn't seem real to me, but those who do use it such as Wolfgang >> >> demand respect, they are all ***y good drivers, jeess.... >> >I think he may have a point - I'd like to know which of the top drivers >> >is using the F10 view, in the same way that their hotlaps are marked to >> >show who's using a wheel and who's using a joystick. >> Should we make a FAQ about which view every hotlapper uses and post it >> here every week? :) >OK Greger - out with it - which view do you use? ;-) >It would reassure me greatly if Wolfie was the exception rather than the >rule!

Cockpit view for me. As I said before I can't feel the car at all in the outside view. -- Greger Huttu

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> >> >> Do I detect some sour grapes here, just cos you can't go as fast? The tracks > >> >> still have the same corners which view you look at it from. I don't like F10 > >> >> because it doesn't seem real to me, but those who do use it such as Wolfgang > >> >> demand respect, they are all ***y good drivers, jeess.... > >> >I think he may have a point - I'd like to know which of the top drivers > >> >is using the F10 view, in the same way that their hotlaps are marked to > >> >show who's using a wheel and who's using a joystick. > >> Should we make a FAQ about which view every hotlapper uses and post it > >> here every week? :) > >OK Greger - out with it - which view do you use? ;-) > >It would reassure me greatly if Wolfie was the exception rather than the > >rule! >***pit view for me. As I said before I can't feel the car at all in > the outside view.

Excellent - I am duly reassured (and you're using a wheel as well!). By the way, major congratulations on winning the first GPL World Championship - it's a nice cup isn't it! Now I just have to work out why I'm not going fast enough (no excuses left)! ;-)

Silliness. Nothing one does one this damned machine says anything about so vapid a category as "manliness."

> Silliness. Nothing one does one this damned machine says anything about so > vapid a category as "manliness." Well, you have to make allowances - he is Italian, after all! Even computer games are tied up with machismo in Italy, apparently!

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> > To all : > > Drive with F10 ? play with playstation is better for you and us. > > Drive with F10 ? you kill all real sim. > > Drive with F10 ? you play videogames like the childrens > > Drive with F10 ? come back to house and stop talking > > If you are a man try to go fast without F10 > > Many thanks to all F10 players for kill the hot laps board. > > Matteo Calestani

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>> >Erm, take a look at the world-record hotlap boards at Schubi's site >> >([link lost in import: /~schubi/championsleague/WM.htm] - you'll notice a >> >certain Wolfgang Woeger featuring prominently, and he's a self-confessed >> >F10 user (not only that, but he uses a joystick - argh! ;-) ). >> Did you know that Wolfgang uses the***pit view when he is racing >> online? And did you also know that his times then are very close to >> his hotlap times? Guess not, ***ing is easier then investigating... >Hold on there a second! >I was not complaining - just curious to know whether it was essential to >use F10 to get fast times, and also whether guys like WW use F10 in >races as well. >Guess you answered my question! ;-)

Ok, I do apologize for that ***ing part. But I still don't like your statement that Wolfgang is fast because he is using F10 view. I know, you didn't say that is was the case, and that you was wondering, but in this NG that equals putting Wolf on the firestake. Remco

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> >> >Erm, take a look at the world-record hotlap boards at Schubi's site > >> >([link lost in import: /~schubi/championsleague/WM.htm] - you'll notice a > >> >certain Wolfgang Woeger featuring prominently, and he's a self-confessed > >> >F10 user (not only that, but he uses a joystick - argh! ;-) ). > >> Did you know that Wolfgang uses the***pit view when he is racing > >> online? And did you also know that his times then are very close to > >> his hotlap times? Guess not, ***ing is easier then investigating... > >Hold on there a second! > >I was not complaining - just curious to know whether it was essential to > >use F10 to get fast times, and also whether guys like WW use F10 in > >races as well. > >Guess you answered my question! ;-) > Ok, I do apologize for that ***ing part. But I still don't like your > statement that Wolfgang is fast because he is using F10 view. > I know, you didn't say that is was the case, and that you was > wondering, but in this NG that equals putting Wolf on the firestake.

I'd just like to point out that I did put a smiley after the bit about him using a joystick, and that I have sung his praises often in the past. And now that the World Champion (Greger Huttu) says he races in-car, I'm happy that F10 probably is not an unfair advantage and Wolfgang is quite entitled to use it if he wants to! :-) Guess that just about wraps up this thread!

ok, well maybe everyone is not the same as me, but I certainly feel to have more control over the car in***pit but I' will admit that GPL has a very good chase view. >> What are you talking about!?!?!?! >> You can only drive fastest without F10, like any sims! In any sim you can't >> drive fast without being able to feel the car around you and with the arm >> movements in GPL, you can really know how much to turn pr not to turn with >> opposite lock, etc....... >> F10 is to warm-up and get familiar with the track..... why do you want to >> get rid of it? So nobody can learn to drive? >> In my opinion, maybe you'll disagree but you have to use***pit view to be >> able to slide the car around enough to get a good lap time in any sim. But

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>> you can't exactly learn a track from looking at it from ground level can >> you? >Erm, take a look at the world-record hotlap boards at Schubi's site >([link lost in import: /~schubi/championsleague/WM.htm] - you'll notice a >certain Wolfgang Woeger featuring prominently, and he's a self-confessed >F10 user (not only that, but he uses a joystick - argh! ;-) ). >If there's an equal mixture of F10-ers and in-car viewers up there, I'd >be happy to put it down to personal preference, but if they're all using >F10... >It would be nice to think that the in-car view actually conferred an >advantage as well as being more realistic, but the worry is that that is >not the case.