Homemade (partially) Force Feedback Wheel Design

I'm considering the purchase of a SRC Wheel (http://www.mindspring.com/~srchwheel with the intent of adding Force Feedback to it. I would like to do this by adding the circuitry of my Logitech Wingman Formula Force and purchasing gears/belts to mount inside the SRC wheel. The SRC wheel appears to be of a very high quality with fantastic pedals and plenty of room internally to mount a motor and circuit board. This all seems fairly straight forward, but I do have a few questions. I'm hoping some of you home wheel builders can assist me. (1) What would be the best mechanism for doing something like this? I've considered using nylon sprockets along with a nylon or steel chain. Would a timing belt or a gear to gear mechanism be better? (2) Is there anything special I would need to increase the gear ratio between the motor and the wheel shaft? Will I need to have some mechanism that will increase the power, or generate more momentum between the two gears (gear on motor --> gear on wheel shaft)? I ask this because I wonder why Logitech chose to use a steel cable drive mechanism. (3) Where would I buy the parts? Does anyone know of any online stores with an extensive catalog and that will sell parts individually? (4) Would anyone like to work with me on this? Maybe we could help SRC out by distributing a third party kit to add FF to their wheels. Of course, the Logitech internals would be the responsibility of the wheel builder. If anyone can offer any insight or assistance I would be most grateful. I don't know why I'm hell bent on building a better wheel, but it's much more interesting than writing code (which is what I should be doing now). -Andrew Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

Holy cow, what a major undertaking. You may want to look back at the post where someone added ball bearings to the Logitech wheel. That might be a better option. Swapping the pedals is easy enough on the Logitech, especially for someone who can take on the kind of project you are contemplating. I might even try this myself - ball bearing mod and wire in the CH pedals. Keith.

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>I'm considering the purchase of a SRC Wheel >(http://www.mindspring.com/~srchwheel) with the intent of adding Force >Feedback to it. I would like to do this by adding the circuitry of my >Logitech Wingman Formula Force and purchasing gears/belts to mount >inside the SRC wheel. The SRC wheel appears to be of a very high >quality with fantastic pedals and plenty of room internally to mount a >motor and circuit board. This all seems fairly straight forward, but I >do have a few questions. I'm hoping some of you home wheel builders >can assist me. >(1) What would be the best mechanism for doing something like this? >I've considered using nylon sprockets along with a nylon or steel >chain. Would a timing belt or a gear to gear mechanism be better? >(2) Is there anything special I would need to increase the gear ratio >between the motor and the wheel shaft? Will I need to have some >mechanism that will increase the power, or generate more momentum >between the two gears (gear on motor --> gear on wheel shaft)? >I ask this because I wonder why Logitech chose to use a steel cable >drive mechanism. >(3) Where would I buy the parts? Does anyone know of any online stores >with an extensive catalog and that will sell parts individually? >(4) Would anyone like to work with me on this? Maybe we could help SRC >out by distributing a third party kit to add FF to their wheels. Of >course, the Logitech internals would be the responsibility of the wheel >builder. >If anyone can offer any insight or assistance I would be most >grateful. I don't know why I'm hell bent on building a better wheel, >but it's much more interesting than writing code (which is what I >should be doing now). >-Andrew >Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ >Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

I see integrating the two wheels as easier than the ball bearing upgrade. I've exchanged several emails with the author of the ball bearing conversion, and it requires machining several parts out of steel. I don't own a lathe and don't know of anyone that could do this cost effectively. What I'm proposing to do is much simpler: 1) Mount the LWFF circuit board into the SRC wheel. (trivial) 2) Connect the steer and brake pots to the LWFF board (trivial) 3) Construct a mounting bracket for the LWFF motor (trivial). 4) Attach a gear or pulley to the SRC wheel shaft (moderate) 5) Remove the springs from the SRC wheel shaft (trivial) 6) Attach a gear to the LWFF motor (moderate) 7) Attach a belt or chain between the LWFF motor and the SRC wheel shaft. 8) Plug in and do driving. The LWFF circuit board is functionally complete, and I'll be using all the wiring harnesess from it. So the only thing that changes is the drive mechanism between the motor and the wheel and the home of the circuit board. I may be over simplifying things here, which is why I'm asking for help. Am I living in a fantasy world, or does this sound possible? -Andrew

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> Holy cow, what a major undertaking. You may want to look back at the post where > someone added ball bearings to the Logitech wheel. That might be a better > option. Swapping the pedals is easy enough on the Logitech, especially for > someone who can take on the kind of project you are contemplating. I might even > try this myself - ball bearing mod and wire in the CH pedals. > Keith. > >I'm considering the purchase of a SRC Wheel > >(http://www.mindspring.com/~srchwheel) with the intent of adding Force > >Feedback to it. I would like to do this by adding the circuitry of my > >Logitech Wingman Formula Force and purchasing gears/belts to mount > >inside the SRC wheel. The SRC wheel appears to be of a very high > >quality with fantastic pedals and plenty of room internally to mount a > >motor and circuit board. This all seems fairly straight forward, but I > >do have a few questions. I'm hoping some of you home wheel builders > >can assist me. > >(1) What would be the best mechanism for doing something like this? > >I've considered using nylon sprockets along with a nylon or steel > >chain. Would a timing belt or a gear to gear mechanism be better? > >(2) Is there anything special I would need to increase the gear ratio > >between the motor and the wheel shaft? Will I need to have some > >mechanism that will increase the power, or generate more momentum > >between the two gears (gear on motor --> gear on wheel shaft)? > >I ask this because I wonder why Logitech chose to use a steel cable > >drive mechanism. > >(3) Where would I buy the parts? Does anyone know of any online stores > >with an extensive catalog and that will sell parts individually? > >(4) Would anyone like to work with me on this? Maybe we could help SRC > >out by distributing a third party kit to add FF to their wheels. Of > >course, the Logitech internals would be the responsibility of the wheel > >builder. > >If anyone can offer any insight or assistance I would be most > >grateful. I don't know why I'm hell bent on building a better wheel, > >but it's much more interesting than writing code (which is what I > >should be doing now). > >-Andrew > >Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > >Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

I have just finished my LWFF conversion to ball bearings. I don't have a lathe but a guy at work helped me with making the parts. I think the ball bearing approach is a better alternative than what you are proposing. The LWFF motor goes through two sets of reduction pulleys before it connects to the steering wheel shaft. For the LWFF controls to work as designed, I think you would need the same drive ratio from the motor to the steering shaft. This might make it a little more complex than what you've outlined. Another thing to consider is that the motor of the LWFF does have some cogging, this is more noticeable after the ball bearings are installed and you will have this with your SRC conversion. I use a set of homemade pedals so the LWFF pedals aren't an issue for me. I might be able to talk the guy that made my parts into making some more parts if anyone is interested. The conversion was not inexpensive though, my conversion cost me around $150. > I see integrating the two wheels as easier than the ball bearing upgrade. I've > exchanged several emails with the author of the ball bearing conversion, and it > requires machining several parts out of steel. I don't own a lathe and don't know > of anyone that could do this cost effectively. What I'm proposing to do is much

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> simpler: > 1) Mount the LWFF circuit board into the SRC wheel. (trivial) > 2) Connect the steer and brake pots to the LWFF board (trivial) > 3) Construct a mounting bracket for the LWFF motor (trivial). > 4) Attach a gear or pulley to the SRC wheel shaft (moderate) > 5) Remove the springs from the SRC wheel shaft (trivial) > 6) Attach a gear to the LWFF motor (moderate) > 7) Attach a belt or chain between the LWFF motor and the SRC wheel shaft. > 8) Plug in and do driving. > The LWFF circuit board is functionally complete, and I'll be using all the

wiring > harnesess from it. So the only thing that changes is the drive mechanism between > the motor and the wheel and the home of the circuit board. I may be over > simplifying things here, which is why I'm asking for help. Am I living in a

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> fantasy world, or does this sound possible? > -Andrew > > Holy cow, what a major undertaking. You may want to look back at the

post where > > someone added ball bearings to the Logitech wheel. That might be a better > > option. Swapping the pedals is easy enough on the Logitech, especially for > > someone who can take on the kind of project you are contemplating. I might even

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> > try this myself - ball bearing mod and wire in the CH pedals. > > Keith. > > >I'm considering the purchase of a SRC Wheel > > >(http://www.mindspring.com/~srchwheel) with the intent of adding Force > > >Feedback to it. I would like to do this by adding the circuitry of my > > >Logitech Wingman Formula Force and purchasing gears/belts to mount > > >inside the SRC wheel. The SRC wheel appears to be of a very high > > >quality with fantastic pedals and plenty of room internally to mount a > > >motor and circuit board. This all seems fairly straight forward, but I > > >do have a few questions. I'm hoping some of you home wheel builders > > >can assist me. > > >(1) What would be the best mechanism for doing something like this? > > >I've considered using nylon sprockets along with a nylon or steel > > >chain. Would a timing belt or a gear to gear mechanism be better? > > >(2) Is there anything special I would need to increase the gear ratio > > >between the motor and the wheel shaft? Will I need to have some > > >mechanism that will increase the power, or generate more momentum > > >between the two gears (gear on motor --> gear on wheel shaft)? > > >I ask this because I wonder why Logitech chose to use a steel cable > > >drive mechanism. > > >(3) Where would I buy the parts? Does anyone know of any online stores > > >with an extensive catalog and that will sell parts individually? > > >(4) Would anyone like to work with me on this? Maybe we could help SRC > > >out by distributing a third party kit to add FF to their wheels. Of > > >course, the Logitech internals would be the responsibility of the wheel > > >builder. > > >If anyone can offer any insight or assistance I would be most > > >grateful. I don't know why I'm hell bent on building a better wheel, > > >but it's much more interesting than writing code (which is what I > > >should be doing now). > > >-Andrew > > >Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > > >Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

Don't miss that offer, Andrew!! -- /M Lindqvist Spamguard: Remove .ajabaja in e-mail