Score one more for the simmers!

Sure, I can see using CPR, ICR2, GP2, etc that have reasonably accurate course layouts to learn the layout of the tracks. However, thats about all you can learn from CPR. :)

Paging through my shiny new issue of Car & Driver (10/99), I happened upon an article about Juan Montoya, titled "Captain Video". This is how it starts: ' The secret can now be told of how Juan Pablo Montoya so quickly mastered CART racing. He bought the video game. "True!" laughed Montoya's car owner, Chip Ganassi. "When he came to the team, he said he already knew the courses on the circuit because he'd bought the Microsoft CART game last year and had it figured out. And he had." ' The article goes on to describe Montoya's obsession with video games, with Ganassi even expressing his theory that years of video *** gives Montoya and others of his generation a kind of eye-hand coordination that older drivers just don't have. Another passage, quoting Montoya's father, remembering their initial foray into F3000: ' "When we were in the Formula 3000, there is a Formula 1 game called GP2," Juan's father explained. "The interesting part of this game is that the tracks are very, very close to reality. I can't remember which track that was, but on the plane, Juan Pablo was learning the track. And when he arrived at the track, he immediately was one of the quickest. First time on the track. He said, 'Oh, this track is very close to the game. There is only a difference in that corner ' - I don't remember which corner it was - ' I was in second [gear]. ' " He also uses the video games to help set up his car's suspension and gearing. ' So, the question again; does sim-racing translate? Chip Ganassi sure thinks so. Guess we better start bundling our hotlaps with our resumes. Anybody got Ganassi's email address? :-) Cheers, Steve B.

Oh ****! Maybe I'm destined for superstardom :)) > The article goes on to describe Montoya's obsession with video games, with > Ganassi even expressing his theory that years of video *** gives Montoya > and others of his generation a kind of eye-hand coordination that older > drivers just don't have. Another passage, quoting Montoya's father, > remembering their initial foray into F3000: -- Rob Swindells 3rd equal in Goldline Bearing FFord Championship (18 Points); 9 points behind Championship Leader (as of round 4 of 6) "If you're a great driver, you will get through. It's not harder than any time before." ~Martin Brundle "If we could do this every week, we would be more consistent..." ~Bryan Robson (I think)

> Oh ****! Maybe I'm destined for superstardom :)) <snip> > 3rd equal in Goldline Bearing FFord Championship (18 Points) Uhhh, Rob; you might be interested to know that in his first season in cars (Barber Saab, 1994 - pretty similar to FF), he finished.........3rd. Cheers, Steve B.

LOL! All is not lost, then <G> > Uhhh, Rob; you might be interested to know that in his first season in cars > (Barber Saab, 1994 - pretty similar to FF), he finished.........3rd. > Cheers, > Steve B. -- Rob Swindells 3rd equal in Goldline Bearing FFord Championship (18 Points); 9 points behind Championship Leader (as of round 4 of 6) "If you're a great driver, you will get through. It's not harder than any time before." ~Martin Brundle "If we could do this every week, we would be more consistent..." ~Bryan Robson (I think)

No, just look at Cleveland and Gateway. Racer X Veteran Sim Racer Victory Lane- http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/1423/

Yes, CPR is actually pretty good for hotlapping. The physics are decent with the patch, and most of the tracks are pretty close to reality (there are a few exceptions). Take out the AI cars, and I can see how it would be a good training tool, especially for someone who needs to learn the tracks. Jim

Some major teams in NASCAR are now looking into hiring talent from the sim world. How do I know? Well... I really shouldn't say. But ok... It's only the RAS bunch. On Thursday I will be announced as the new driver for Robert Yates Motorsports. Yep. I will be taking the seat vacated by Kenny Irwin. It is pretty hush hush deal at this time, but we expect to have the sponsorship locked up for next year by tonight. We will be sponsored by Viagra and Jack Daniels. We will be calling our first season, and my drive for the Rookie of the Year championship, the "Hard Drinkin' in 2000" tour. Hats, t-shirts, and designer ***s will be avaiable on the RYR web site. The Mocker

Doesn't explain how he learned Cleveland <G>

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>Paging through my shiny new issue of Car & Driver (10/99), I happened upon >an article about Juan Montoya, titled "Captain Video". This is how it >starts: >' The secret can now be told of how Juan Pablo Montoya so quickly mastered >CART racing. > He bought the video game. >"True!" laughed Montoya's car owner, Chip Ganassi. "When he came to the >team, he said he already knew the courses on the circuit because he'd bought >the Microsoft CART game last year and had it figured out. And he had." ' >The article goes on to describe Montoya's obsession with video games, with >Ganassi even expressing his theory that years of video *** gives Montoya >and others of his generation a kind of eye-hand coordination that older >drivers just don't have. Another passage, quoting Montoya's father, >remembering their initial foray into F3000: >' "When we were in the Formula 3000, there is a Formula 1 game called GP2," >Juan's father explained. "The interesting part of this game is that the >tracks are very, very close to reality. I can't remember which track that >was, but on the plane, Juan Pablo was learning the track. And when he >arrived at the track, he immediately was one of the quickest. First time on >the track. He said, 'Oh, this track is very close to the game. There is >only a difference in that corner ' - I don't remember which corner it was - >' I was in second [gear]. ' " He also uses the video games to help set up >his car's suspension and gearing. ' >So, the question again; does sim-racing translate? Chip Ganassi sure thinks >so. Guess we better start bundling our hotlaps with our resumes. Anybody >got Ganassi's email address? :-) >Cheers, >Steve B.

On 31 Aug 1999 16:50:14 GMT, >>So, the question again; does sim-racing translate? Chip Ganassi sure thinks >>so. Guess we better start bundling our hotlaps with our resumes. Anybody >>got Ganassi's email address? :-) >Personally, I think it's kind of hard to tell from Chip's comment. All >he mentioned was eye-hand coordination. You must be reading a different article that I did. What was said was: :"True!" laughed Montoya's car owner, Chip Ganassi. "When he came to the :team, he said he already knew the courses on the circuit because he'd bought :the Microsoft CART game last year and had it figured out. And he had." ' :' "When we were in the Formula 3000, there is a Formula 1 game called GP2," :Juan's father explained. "The interesting part of this game is that the :tracks are very, very close to reality. I can't remember which track that :was, but on the plane, Juan Pablo was learning the track. And when he :arrived at the track, he immediately was one of the quickest. First time on :the track. He said, 'Oh, this track is very close to the game. There is :only a difference in that corner ' - I don't remember which corner it was - :' I was in second [gear]. ' " He also uses the video games to help set up :his car's suspension and gearing. ' -- * rrevved at mindspring dot com * http://www.cabal.net * http://www.sputum.com

On Tue, 31 Aug 1999 20:18:12 GMT, LOL! -- * rrevved at mindspring dot com * http://www.cabal.net * [link lost in import]

>that's wild!! So CPR is useful for something! Moreso than you may think -- IRL rookie John Hollansworth won the 1999 Indy 500 Fastest Rookie award. During the month of May, there was a segment on RPM2Nite (I think) about Hollansworth, and it showed him using a PC-based driving simulator (that is, a Thrustmaster wheel and a driving sim -- the same stuff WE use) to familiarize himself with the track. There was much speculation here about what sim he was using -- ICR2, ABC Indy Racing, and CPR all seemed like logical choices (someone did do an Indy track for CPR), and most people seemed to think it was CPR based on some of the graphics. I had a chance to interview Hollansworth shortly after the RPM2Nite segment (he's a very nice guy), and I asked him specifically about the driving sim. He said he'd heard about ABC Indy Racing but had never been able to find a copy, so, instead, he WAS using CPR. Yup, that's right -- the fastest IRL rookie for the 1999 Indianapolis 500 used Microsoft's CART Precision Racing game as a tool to help prepare for Indy. My only question is, what does that mean we're getting that much closer to actually seeing an end to the IRL/CART split goes? If so, I hope the resultant sim title FAR exceeds both ABC Indy Racing and CPR! <G> -- John Bodin Publisher, The IRL Insider Magazine http://irlinsider.adnetweb.com/

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> I had a chance to interview Hollansworth shortly after the RPM2Nite segment > (he's a very nice guy), and I asked him specifically about the driving sim. > He said he'd heard about ABC Indy Racing but had never been able to find a > copy, so, instead, he WAS using CPR. > Yup, that's right -- the fastest IRL rookie for the 1999 Indianapolis 500 > used Microsoft's CART Precision Racing game as a tool to help prepare for > Indy.

Hey, I made that track!!! Way cool if it was used by a real driver to learn the track! -- Arne Martin

Arne you did a good job with that track too. It is a shame the game wasn't better as I always looked foward to your tracks for CPR. So when we going to see some GPL tracks??? :o) -- Jeff Murchison JR Screamers League Administrator http://members.tripod.com/grandprixlegends > > I had a chance to interview Hollansworth shortly after the RPM2Nite segment > > (he's a very nice guy), and I asked him specifically about the driving sim. > > He said he'd heard about ABC Indy Racing but had never been able to find a > > copy, so, instead, he WAS using CPR. > > Yup, that's right -- the fastest IRL rookie for the 1999 Indianapolis 500 > > used Microsoft's CART Precision Racing game as a tool to help prepare for > > Indy. > Hey, I made that track!!! Way cool if it was used by a real driver to > learn the track! > -- > Arne Martin

John, how did you arrive at that?! From some um, who is he again?, driver using CPR [he didn't pay much attention to reviews did he? definetly a black mark in my book] to learn the track to a possible closing of the IRL/CART split? You lost me there. As far as I remember from playing them both, it wouldn't take much to exceed both those horrid racing games put together. :?

>>is it >>true that the tracks are pretty well-modeled >No, just look at Cleveland and Gateway. Ok, so that's two of seven*** that are horrible... Are any of the CPR tracks decently modeled (not counting Arne's tracks of course)? <remove 7of9 for e-mail replies> -- Bill Jones e-mail addresses: (860) 701-1201 WWW: http://pages.cthome.net/billj

John, I don't want to rain on your parade, but how much help can CPR or ABC's sim actually *be* on a square oval like Indy? For cryin out loud, it's a rectangle! There's no track to 'learn'. The differences between real life and the sim are going to be so huge, because of the different kinds of cars, tires, and setup. This is very different than learning a road/street course using a sim, where you need to memorize what turn is coming up next, approximately what kind of corner it is and where its apex is, what gear it needs to be taken in, when a good brake point might be, and so on. To be really helpful on ovals, you need a VERY accurate sim that is so accurate you can actually make useful setup changes and play with different lines. I don't believe CPR or ABC's Indy Racing are realistic enough to provide that level of help to a real-life racer. NASCAR 2 has obviously helped Winston Cuppers, which shows how solid their model is, at least as far as setups and racing lines go, but I just question the open-wheelers because they are so out of date and out of step with the hardware that's currently used on the track. Randy

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>Yup, that's right -- the fastest IRL rookie for the 1999 Indianapolis 500 >used Microsoft's CART Precision Racing game as a tool to help prepare for >Indy. >My only question is, what does that mean we're getting that much closer to >actually seeing an end to the IRL/CART split goes? If so, I hope the >resultant sim title FAR exceeds both ABC Indy Racing and CPR! <G> >-- John Bodin > Publisher, The IRL Insider Magazine > http://irlinsider.adnetweb.com/

Okay Randy -- I'll rain on YOUR parade: Yes, Indy is a square oval -- and have you ever tried to take a 90-degree left-hand turn at full-throttle with an entry speed of 230+ mph? Anybody who's ever tried to turn in hot laps (or race, for that matter) at Indy in ICR2, CPR, or ABC Indy Racing knows the difference between a good entry/exit and a bad one that scrubs off speed or causes you to lift off the throttle. Given that, it seems there's a LOT to learn on a "simple" square oval. In fact, since improvements at Indy -- and the difference between the pole position and a starting spot in the back of the pack -- comes down to mere hundredths of a second, I've found myself spending TONS more time learning Indy in these various sims than any other track. As for CPR or ABC Indy Racing (or ICR2, for that matter) being realistic enough, I'd have to say that they probably are, because one of the most critical parts on a track like Indy is timing. The track surfaces, tires, general physics, etc., may not be realistic enough, but if the lap times and speeds are portrayed accurately, you can get a fair idea of how much time you have between turn 2 and turn 3, for example -- or between turn 1 and turn 2 in the short chute. On an odd, square oval like Indy, that sense of timing can be critical, especially at the speeds they travel there. Towards the end of a long practice session at Indy, Tony Stewart once said that he was having concentration problems because his thoughts began to wander on the backstretch; he found himself pondering what he was going to have for dinner, and he said that kind of shook him up when he realized he was traveling at over 230 mph with his thoughts drifting off to other things besides driving. Timing and concentration ARE critical issues, and a sim can help with these as long as the speeds and times correspond well with the real-world track that is being modelled. A sim can also help in the area of visual cues -- if the graphics are good and the terrain/buildings/etc. are patterned fairly closely after the real-world track, then the driver has a chance to learn just where the turn-in point is with respect to the visual cues (grandstands, pit lane entry, etc.). This is obviously one thing that makes a sim valuable learning tool for a road or street course -- a simple, square oval may seem, well, simple in comparison to Long Beach or Laguna Seca, but there ARE still visual cues to be learned and memorized. On the concentration issue, that's the main reason Hollansworth uses sims -- he also sits in his***pit for extended periods of time, just getting the feel of the car, meditating, and visualizing what's to come in the race ahead. A driving sim gives him added visuals to concentrate on, which he says helps him focus his concentration further. Apparently it works, because Hollansworth was the fastest qualifying rookie at Indy this year. As an aside, Hollansworth was using CPR because he said he hadn't been able to find a copy of the ABC Indy Racing title. I told him the last place I'd seen a copy of ABC Indy Racing on sale was the Indianapolis Motor Speedway Museum Gift Shop -- but I never found out if he managed to get a copy for himself. Hollansworth and Team Xtreme also just signed on Lycos as their primary sponsor in a 3-year deal that covers Team Xtreme, Hollansworth and the entire team. Not bad for a guy who plays video games, eh? Now, given all this, have you spent much time on the Indy track in ICR2, CPR, or ABC Indy Racing? If not (or if not recently), go back and run a few laps and decide for yourself just how difficult it is to be fast on a square oval. If your goal is to qualify for the Indianapolis 500 -- or to be the fastest rookie qualifier -- I guarantee you there's plenty to be learned . . . and plenty that can be learned from a halfway-decent sim. -- JB

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>John, >I don't want to rain on your parade, but how much help can CPR or >ABC's sim actually *be* on a square oval like Indy? For cryin out >loud, it's a rectangle! There's no track to 'learn'. The differences >between real life and the sim are going to be so huge, because of the >different kinds of cars, tires, and setup. This is very different >than learning a road/street course using a sim, where you need to >memorize what turn is coming up next, approximately what kind of >corner it is and where its apex is, what gear it needs to be taken in, >when a good brake point might be, and so on. To be really helpful on >ovals, you need a VERY accurate sim that is so accurate you can >actually make useful setup changes and play with different lines. I >don't believe CPR or ABC's Indy Racing are realistic enough to provide >that level of help to a real-life racer. NASCAR 2 has obviously >helped Winston Cuppers, which shows how solid their model is, at least >as far as setups and racing lines go, but I just question the >open-wheelers because they are so out of date and out of step with the >hardware that's currently used on the track. >Randy >>Yup, that's right -- the fastest IRL rookie for the 1999 Indianapolis 500 >>used Microsoft's CART Precision Racing game as a tool to help prepare for >>Indy. >>My only question is, what does that mean we're getting that much closer to >>actually seeing an end to the IRL/CART split goes? If so, I hope the >>resultant sim title FAR exceeds both ABC Indy Racing and CPR! <G> >>-- John Bodin >> Publisher, The IRL Insider Magazine >> http://irlinsider.adnetweb.com/