To all NASCAR fans...

I must admit that I've never seen a real NASCAR race, it isn't too populair here in Holland. I played all the nascar sims available on a pc, and I just can't find out what the fun of NASCAR racing is. What's the fun of driving circle after circle? With NASCAR 3 coming out, I'm curious to find the 'magic' of NASCAR racing. Why is NASCAR racing in the US so much more populair than F1 racing? Because of this, papy is concentrating more on NASCAR games now than on F1 sims I believe. Americans, enlighten me please :) Andre

i agree! where is the F U N???

I guess cause we are all Hicks at heart:)Honestly if you don't get a rush from Nascar 99 then maybe its just not for you.If you don't like watching races then you probably won't enjoy the game. Mark

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> I must admit that I've never seen a real NASCAR race, it isn't too > populair here in Holland. I played all the nascar sims available on a > pc, and I just can't find out what the fun of NASCAR racing is. > What's the fun of driving circle after circle? > With NASCAR 3 coming out, I'm curious to find the 'magic' of NASCAR > racing. > Why is NASCAR racing in the US so much more populair than F1 racing? > Because of this, papy is concentrating more on NASCAR games now than > on F1 sims I believe. > Americans, enlighten me please :) > Andre

says... 1) As a spectator, you can generally see the entire track from your seat. 2) The cars are pretty (well, most of them are). 3) You can pronounce the drivers names without sounding like you're *** on a hairball. 4) When a driver is interviewed, you don't need an interpreter to understand what he's saying. 5) Wrecks usually involve more than just two cars. 6) Chrysler will be back in Winston Cup by the middle of the 2000 season. 7) At 395 pieces, my Nascar diecast collection is getting to be pretty impressive. -- ========================================================= Redneck Techno-Biker (Zerex12) http://www.members.home.net/jms1/index.html Barbarian Diecast Collector (370+ cars and counting) http://members.home.net/jsimm/diecast_index.html Internet Grand Prix Series Season 2 http://members.home.net/jsimm/diecast_index.html North American Stockcar Racing Online Competition http://www.paddedwall.org/nasroc1/nasroc1.html Super X Philes http://members.home.net/kap/superx/superx.html If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

In many parts of Europe, and in Australia, racing sedans/salon cars or "stock" cars as we call them here in the States is very popular. Why? Because the racing is close, and competitive, because the cars can bump or rub into one another without causing a crash, even at high speeds. Because we can associate with the cars (you can go out and buy the street version at you local car dealership) and the drivers as for the most part they are "local boys" so there is a sense of connection between the fan and the team/driver. America is a pretty big place... We've got lots of race tracks (most of which are ovals, I guess it's a piece of Americana) so it's fairly easy to see a "stock car" race at a track nearby, and since you can see the ENTIRE track from the grandstands (unlike road racing, where you can only see one or two corners) it's very exciting to see the cars bump, rub and race there way around the oval for position and hopefully the win. Hope this answers, why NASCAR racing, why oval racing for that matter is so popular in the USA. If you ever get a chance to come over to the states and attend a race in person, you might better understand the exiting atmosphere and thrilling racing that takes place on oval tracks. Cheers Jay J

I guess its like anything you grow up with. The canadians favor Hockey over Football, Baseball, Basketball, etc.. because they grew up with it, have a history associated with it. They remember the old stars, and live through the new. NASCAR here in the states has a rich history associated with it. Everything from its early roots of whiskey runners to the Daytona races in the sand. Early stars like Fire Ball Roberts to Richard Petty had a lot to do with its growth. NASCAR is also associated with cars that are parked in allot of american driveways. So if you drive a Ford you most likely will favor NASCAR drivers which drive Fords, etc.. Probably the number one reason for its current growth is the close competition during any race, but NASCAR has also done an excellent job of marketing its drivers and the sport. Drivers here in the states easily recognizable, and very approachable to the fans. Maybe this will give you a little of the insight you are seeking.

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> I guess cause we are all Hicks at heart:)Honestly if you don't get a rush > from Nascar 99 then maybe its just not for you.If you don't like watching > races then you probably won't enjoy the game. > Mark > > I must admit that I've never seen a real NASCAR race, it isn't too > > populair here in Holland. I played all the nascar sims available on a > > pc, and I just can't find out what the fun of NASCAR racing is. > > What's the fun of driving circle after circle? > > With NASCAR 3 coming out, I'm curious to find the 'magic' of NASCAR > > racing. > > Why is NASCAR racing in the US so much more populair than F1 racing? > > Because of this, papy is concentrating more on NASCAR games now than > > on F1 sims I believe. > > Americans, enlighten me please :) > > Andre

I have just one thing to say...Bristol - last night...that's why...

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> says... > >I must admit that I've never seen a real NASCAR race, it isn't too > >populair here in Holland. I played all the nascar sims available on a > >pc, and I just can't find out what the fun of NASCAR racing is. > >What's the fun of driving circle after circle? > >With NASCAR 3 coming out, I'm curious to find the 'magic' of NASCAR > >racing. > >Why is NASCAR racing in the US so much more populair than F1 racing? > >Because of this, papy is concentrating more on NASCAR games now than > >on F1 sims I believe. > >Americans, enlighten me please :) > 1) As a spectator, you can generally see the entire track from your seat. > 2) The cars are pretty (well, most of them are). > 3) You can pronounce the drivers names without sounding like you're > *** on a hairball. > 4) When a driver is interviewed, you don't need an interpreter to > understand what he's saying. > 5) Wrecks usually involve more than just two cars. > 6) Chrysler will be back in Winston Cup by the middle of the 2000 season. > 7) At 395 pieces, my Nascar diecast collection is getting to be pretty > impressive. > -- > ========================================================= > Redneck Techno-Biker (Zerex12) > http://www.members.home.net/jms1/index.html > Barbarian Diecast Collector (370+ cars and counting) > http://members.home.net/jsimm/diecast_index.html > Internet Grand Prix Series Season 2 > http://www.paddedwall.org/igps2/igps2.html > North American Stockcar Racing Online Competition > http://www.paddedwall.org/nasroc1/nasroc1.html > Super X Philes > http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast > If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown > above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. > =========================================================

hehe, it's because the NASCAR boys and fans can't think of more then one thing at a time.. Turn left, turn left, turn left.... If they had to think of two things, they would be lost.. Turn left, Turn right, turn.. um, what was that last thing? <g> NASCAR is fun to drive because the competition is almost always right there with in inches of you. Not just front and back, but front, back, left and right. Competition is a whole lot closer and wins are almost always calculated by hundredths of a second rather then seconds. I like that aspect of NASCAR racing, or Oval racing in general. If such a thing would happen on a regular basis on road courses... That would make NASCAR fans forget about NASCAR. I like the close competition in circle tracks, but I need more then just that. That's why I love road racing.

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> I must admit that I've never seen a real NASCAR race, it isn't too > populair here in Holland. I played all the nascar sims available on a > pc, and I just can't find out what the fun of NASCAR racing is. > What's the fun of driving circle after circle? > With NASCAR 3 coming out, I'm curious to find the 'magic' of NASCAR > racing. > Why is NASCAR racing in the US so much more populair than F1 racing? > Because of this, papy is concentrating more on NASCAR games now than > on F1 sims I believe. > Americans, enlighten me please :) > Andre

-- ========================================= Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing? ========================================= Racing online with the help of...... Race Communications Association http://members.xoom.com/RCA/toc.html Holodyne Engineering Mystic Music (have Your !!Name/Address!! placed here)

If you don't think driving a 3000lbs car at 195mph, without much help from aero, just inches away from a concrete wall and other competitors is scary and exciting, you don't understand the problem. I'm not going to wear down my fingers and go into the reasons for the closeness of the racers, nor am I going to explain the tactics involved. If you can't look beyond the shape of the tracks there is no hope for you Andre. I hope for you sake Crammond delivers. Jan. ---- <snip>

Close racing - actual PASSING - drivers who can *lean* on each other a bit withoug tearing up the machinery(or themselves). I'm sure there are other reasons, too. Eldred __ Put your message in a modem, and throw it in the ***-sea... remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

The popularity of ovals in the U.S. goes all the way back to the birth of the automobile itself. One thing that people outside the U.S. don't realize is that while road racing was born in Europe, oval-track racing was born in the U.S. Back in the early 1900s, when Europeans were starting to discover the joys of road racing, people in the U.S. were starting to discover the joy of oval-track racing. 1911 saw the birth of the Indianapolis 500, and that race captured the imagination of Americans all across the country. There were other ovals before, but none so grand. Indy quickly became this country's premiere racing event, and it has remained so ever since (don't give me any of that "Indy has lost its prestige crap," either -- ask any European to name a race that's held in the U.S., and I guarantee you that they'll invariably say "the Indianapolis 500."). I've heard that on any given Saturday night during the summertime (the racing season, that is) there are over 300 dirt tracks (all ovals) in this country hosting events. That's more than 3 tracks per state on the average. That's a LOT of oval-track racing going on, especially given that there are usually several races run per night (heats, 2nd chance, quals, features, etc.). Again, that's a LOT of oval track racing. And given that, it should be easy to see why NASCAR is so popular in this country. Indy is where our interest in oval racing really took off in this country, but now, NASCAR has become the highest level in the career path for all those Saturday night oval racers. Dirt track cars are tough, durable, front-engine, rear-wheel-drive cars, just like NASCAR -- whereas over the past 30 years or so, Indy-style cars that have evolved into delicate, high-performance, rear-engine designs that have more in common with F1 cars than Saturday night sprintes, late models, or supermodifieds. If you're a Satuday night dirt-track hero and you want to make the big time, you've got yoru sights set on NASCAR. The Indy Racing League's all-oval formula was intended to change that, and it has made an impact, but right now, NASCAR is king in this country. As for the fans, the same thing applies: If you follow Saturday night dirt track racing and you want to follow the career of your favorite dirt track hero, you're eventually going to end up following NASCAR, more than likely. Hence the popularity of NASCAR. And NASCAR is so much more popular than F1 because we just don't understand road racing. I mean, really, a bunch of cars following each other around in a parade-like formation with little or no passing -- where's the fun in that? Then again, I suppose that could be either F1 or NASCAR, come to think of it . . . <G> -- John Bodin Publisher, The IRL Insider Magazine http://irlinsider.adnetweb.com/

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>I must admit that I've never seen a real NASCAR race, it isn't too >populair here in Holland. I played all the nascar sims available on a >pc, and I just can't find out what the fun of NASCAR racing is. >What's the fun of driving circle after circle? >With NASCAR 3 coming out, I'm curious to find the 'magic' of NASCAR >racing. >Why is NASCAR racing in the US so much more populair than F1 racing? >Because of this, papy is concentrating more on NASCAR games now than >on F1 sims I believe. >Americans, enlighten me please :) >Andre

Hmmm, good question. I'd have to say that on the whole we Americans are entirely too unintelligent to understand a race with both left and right hand turns. Of course that doesn't explain the popularity of road racing, and autocross events. But our inability to comprehend any non oval sport, runs deeper than that too. Look at our car manufacturers.... Low end torque, cushy rides, boring people movers. Americans care only about straight line performance and not the joy of twists and tuns on a winding road. When Pontiac can sell themselves as sports cars you know we have a problem

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> I must admit that I've never seen a real NASCAR race, it isn't too > populair here in Holland. I played all the nascar sims available on a > pc, and I just can't find out what the fun of NASCAR racing is. > What's the fun of driving circle after circle? > With NASCAR 3 coming out, I'm curious to find the 'magic' of NASCAR > racing. > Why is NASCAR racing in the US so much more populair than F1 racing? > Because of this, papy is concentrating more on NASCAR games now than > on F1 sims I believe. > Americans, enlighten me please :) > Andre

Yeah, that is the major reason I like Nascar over F1, though I DO like both. In nascar, 1st and 2nd usually are decided by the width of a wheel, whereas in F1, the 1st place driver usually has time for a shower before 2nd crosses the line. :) (Ok, a bit of an exaggeration.)

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> (Andre Warringa) writes: > >I must admit that I've never seen a real NASCAR race, it isn't too > >populair here in Holland. I played all the nascar sims available on a > >pc, and I just can't find out what the fun of NASCAR racing is. > >What's the fun of driving circle after circle? > >With NASCAR 3 coming out, I'm curious to find the 'magic' of NASCAR > >racing. > >Why is NASCAR racing in the US so much more populair than F1 racing? > >Because of this, papy is concentrating more on NASCAR games now than > >on F1 sims I believe. > >Americans, enlighten me please :) > >Andre > Close racing - actual PASSING - drivers who can *lean* on each other a bit > withoug tearing up the machinery(or themselves). I'm sure there are other > reasons, too. > Eldred > __ > Put your message in a modem, and throw it in the ***-sea... > remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Of course, AndrewS does not speak for all americans...

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> Hmmm, good question. I'd have to say that on the whole we Americans are > entirely too unintelligent to understand a race with both left and right > hand turns. Of course that doesn't explain the popularity of road > racing, and autocross events. But our inability to comprehend any non > oval sport, runs deeper than that too. Look at our car manufacturers.... > Low end torque, cushy rides, boring people movers. Americans care only > about straight line performance and not the joy of twists and tuns on a > winding road. When Pontiac can sell themselves as sports cars you know > we have a problem > > I must admit that I've never seen a real NASCAR race, it isn't too > > populair here in Holland. I played all the nascar sims available on a > > pc, and I just can't find out what the fun of NASCAR racing is. > > What's the fun of driving circle after circle? > > With NASCAR 3 coming out, I'm curious to find the 'magic' of NASCAR > > racing. > > Why is NASCAR racing in the US so much more populair than F1 racing? > > Because of this, papy is concentrating more on NASCAR games now than > > on F1 sims I believe. > > Americans, enlighten me please :) > > Andre

Nicely said John!

If you get a chance to see the tape from last night's Real Winston Cup race that will go along way towards giving you an idea why we are so hooked on NASCAR. The finish of last nights race was awesome. It is what we hope for in sim racing, and something that road racing can never hope to match. The Mocker

It's more popular in the U.S. because we have no F1 presence until next year. They certainly like it in the South. :-) I live in the U.S. and I have less than 0 interest in NASCAR. F1 is what I love, and CART is very good too. Everything else is minor leagues. I can't even force myself to watch 15 minutes of NASCAR. Actually, I don't even view NASCAR and F1 as of the same sport. I don't like the NASCAR cars, tracks, drivers, or fans. F1 is worlds better in every way. David G Fisher

Sounds like you REALLY need to try Grand Prix Legends... :) Andre

Well, after reading the opinions in this thread, I think I'll look with a different eye on Nascar racing in the future, so maybe there's still hope for me... Andre

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>If you don't think driving a 3000lbs car at 195mph, without much help from >aero, just inches away from a concrete wall and other competitors is scary >and exciting, you don't understand the problem. >I'm not going to wear down my fingers and go into the reasons for the >closeness of the racers, nor am I going to explain the tactics involved. If >you can't look beyond the shape of the tracks there is no hope for you >Andre. >I hope for you sake Crammond delivers. >Jan. >---- >> I must admit that I've never seen a real NASCAR race, it isn't too ><snip>

I too watched Bristol, and I kept thinking as everyone was spinning, .. hey that tire smoke looks just like the demo pictures Papy has put up for N3. :) dave henrie > If you get a chance to see the tape from last night's Real Winston Cup race > that will go along way towards giving you an idea why we are so hooked on > NASCAR. The finish of last nights race was awesome. It is what we hope for > in sim racing, and something that road racing can never hope to match. > The Mocker

On the interstate to work every morning I pass enough cars to put Dale Earnhardt to shame but that doesn't mean that it's a spectator sport. Passing gets very devalued when it's as easy as that, particularly when the cars are kept close enough to pass by yellow flags and pace cars. NASCAR is a lot of fun and great to watch, but it's not necessary to deride other formulae in order to demonstrate it. Cheers! John

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>>Close racing - actual PASSING >On the interstate to work every morning I pass enough cars to put Dale >Earnhardt to shame but that doesn't mean that it's a spectator sport. >Passing gets very devalued when it's as easy as that, particularly >when the cars are kept close enough to pass by yellow flags and pace >cars. >NASCAR is a lot of fun and great to watch, but it's not necessary to >deride other formulae in order to demonstrate it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Andre started all this discussion with his somewhat-derisive comments about NASCAR: "I just can't find out what the fun of NASCAR racing is. What's the fun of driving circle after circle?" All Eldred is doing, I believe, is trying to explain the appeal of NASCAR via its virtues (rubbin', bumpin', and passing), not by deriding other formulae. Cheers back at you! <G> -- JB

I ALREADY own GPL -- and I love it, too. You can occasionally find me on VROC, getting in people's way with my Ferrari. Allison's setups are great, but they're not magic. GPL is a great game, though. The Louden oval conversion is a ton of fun, too. -- JB >Sounds like you REALLY need to try Grand Prix Legends... :) >Andre >>And NASCAR is so much more popular than F1 because we just don't understand >>road racing. I mean, really, a bunch of cars following each other around in >>a parade-like formation with little or no passing -- where's the fun in >>that?

Through your eyes, yes. Racer X Veteran Sim Racer Victory Lane- http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/1423/

Andre: Its not real hard to explain--"its a Southern Thing". You were born and raised with it or you've grown to like it. Perhaps, its cultural. Its sorta an American Deal but certainly not limited to us colonists. Maybe you'll enjoy it. Crash