GPL:(simple) question!

Hi, Can someone out here explain me what "short shifting" really is? I read it in "four wheel drift" but it isn't really explained. Jan.

Short shifting is when the driver up shifts "short of the redline". The reasons are many. 1 you may save fuel shortshifting. 2 you may shortshift exiting a turn to help reduce wheelspin. 3 you may shortshift to avoid that whiney sound the engine makes at redline ;) 4 shortshifting helps reduce engine wear. I'm sure others will add some here...

: Can someone out here explain me what "short shifting" really is? I read it in : "four wheel drift" but it isn't really explained. Changing gear before the engine "requires it" - in GPL that means before the white line on your RPM reaches the maximum indicated by the red line. The reason for doing this is that you'll get less torque doing that which will make the car easier to control (of course it will also make it slower). -- Richard G. Clegg Only the mind is waving Dept. of Mathematics (Network Control group) Uni. of York. www: http://manor.york.ac.uk/top.html

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> Short shifting is when the driver up shifts "short of the redline". The > reasons are many. > 1 you may save fuel shortshifting. > 2 you may shortshift exiting a turn to help reduce wheelspin. > 3 you may shortshift to avoid that whiney sound the engine makes at > redline ;) > 4 shortshifting helps reduce engine wear. > I'm sure others will add some here...

OK, Thanks, this explains what it accomplishes but now...... how's it done? (yeah, I know I'm stupid, sorry for that). Jan.

:> Short shifting is when the driver up shifts "short of the redline". The :> reasons are many. :> 1 you may save fuel shortshifting. :> 2 you may shortshift exiting a turn to help reduce wheelspin. :> 3 you may shortshift to avoid that whiney sound the engine makes at :> redline ;) :> 4 shortshifting helps reduce engine wear. :> I'm sure others will add some here... : Thanks, this explains what it accomplishes but now...... how's it done? (yeah, : I know I'm stupid, sorry for that). You can only do this if you're not using "automatic gears" - you'll find GPL is easier this way anyway. Simple change up a gear earlier than you normally would and change down a gear later. I.e. stay in higher gears for longer. -- Richard G. Clegg Only the mind is waving Dept. of Mathematics (Network Control group) Uni. of York. www: http://manor.york.ac.uk/top.html

And how, or what, is 'burping' the engine? (no disgusting answers, please...) > : Can someone out here explain me what "short shifting" really is? I read it in

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> : "four wheel drift" but it isn't really explained. > Changing gear before the engine "requires it" - in GPL that means > before the white line on your RPM reaches the maximum indicated by the > red line. The reason for doing this is that you'll get less torque > doing that which will make the car easier to control (of course it will > also make it slower). > -- > Richard G. Clegg Only the mind is waving > Dept. of Mathematics (Network Control group) Uni. of York. > www: http://manor.york.ac.uk/top.html

Revving the engine whilst in neutral, with clutch "let out" (or engaged), as you travel from a (usually) higher to a lower gear (5th. to 4th, 4th. to 3rd. etc). Used to be called "double-shuffling" or "double-declutching".

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> And how, or what, is 'burping' the engine? (no disgusting answers, > please...) > > : Can someone out here explain me what "short shifting" really is? I

read

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> it in > > : "four wheel drift" but it isn't really explained. > > Changing gear before the engine "requires it" - in GPL that means > > before the white line on your RPM reaches the maximum indicated by the > > red line. The reason for doing this is that you'll get less torque > > doing that which will make the car easier to control (of course it will > > also make it slower). > > -- > > Richard G. Clegg Only the mind is waving > > Dept. of Mathematics (Network Control group) Uni. of York. > > www: http://manor.york.ac.uk/top.html

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> Hi, > Can someone out here explain me what "short shifting" really is? I > read it in > "four wheel drift" but it isn't really explained. Short shifting merely means to change up a gear before you hit the redline or rev limiter. So instead of revving the engine to the limit then changing gear, change gear slightly early, before the redline or rev limiter is reached. There are many good reasons to short shift, some of which are as follows: It reduces the strain on the engine and gearbox because you are not revving to the maximum. Thus reducing the risk of a damaged engine or geabox. It reduces the chances of wheel spin because you are using lower revs. Some people short shift when starting, or when entering or driving through bends, as this is the most likely time when you will suffer from wheelspin. It increases fuel economy, which may be important in a race. Short shifting generally makes the car slightly easier to drive. The downside to this, is that the car is usually a bit slower (hence easier to drive) because you are using lower revs, hence less power, hence less speed. However, when used for cornering it can actually be quicker to use the short shifting method (as in the slow in, fast out technique). Generally people short shift during racing to take advantage of the reasons stated above, but in hotlapping people generally rev to the max to obtain every last ounce of acceleration. But this obviously places huge strains on the car as mentioned above, which is why you do not want to do it all the time, lap after lap, during a race. *Peter* 8-)

> Revving the engine whilst in neutral, with clutch "let out" (or > engaged), as > you travel from a (usually) higher to a lower gear (5th. to 4th, 4th. > to > 3rd. etc). Used to be called "double-shuffling" or > "double-declutching". Eh? this is *NOT* the same as short shifting!!!! *Peter* 8-)

> Revving the engine whilst in neutral, with clutch "let out" (or engaged), as

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> you travel from a (usually) higher to a lower gear (5th. to 4th, 4th. to > 3rd. etc). Used to be called "double-shuffling" or "double-declutching". > > And how, or what, is 'burping' the engine? (no disgusting answers, > > please...)

Sorry but some minor corrections to Bruce's post Basically right, Although I've always Known it as blipping, Where as you change down through the gears you dis-engage the clutch then blip or burp the throttle as you engage the next gear, the idea being that when you engage the lower gear your less likely to lock the rear wheels because the engines got slightly higher rev's than if you do it on a closed throttle. But I think you will find that double-declutching is a thow-back to very early cars where you had to dis-engage the clutch change into neutral, them dis-engage the clutch a second time to change to the next gear, not sure about the reasons you had to do this though. Mark London UK Yamaha TRX850

Thanks Richard and "5th doctor", I've never used automatic shifting and/or braking help b.t.w. What makes you think I did? If I understand it correct: Short shifting is some sort of preserving your engine (by not over revving), right? What about shifting itself: I find it rather difficult to get the timing right (especially with the LWFF pedals) between releasing the throttle, shift and back on (full) throttle. Every now and then I'm a bit out of phase (so to say) and notice I accomplish the opposite: The gearbox is overrevving way into the redzone. any tips on this one? (I have the feeling this is why I almost never finish an int. long session: My engine fails at a certain point (lack of power and a very nervous rpm-needle)) Jan.

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> :> Short shifting is when the driver up shifts "short of the redline". The > :> reasons are many. > :> 1 you may save fuel shortshifting. > :> 2 you may shortshift exiting a turn to help reduce wheelspin. > :> 3 you may shortshift to avoid that whiney sound the engine makes at > :> redline ;) > :> 4 shortshifting helps reduce engine wear. > :> I'm sure others will add some here... > : Thanks, this explains what it accomplishes but now...... how's it done? (yeah, > : I know I'm stupid, sorry for that). > You can only do this if you're not using "automatic gears" - you'll > find GPL is easier this way anyway. Simple change up a gear earlier > than you normally would and change down a gear later. I.e. stay in > higher gears for longer. > -- > Richard G. Clegg Only the mind is waving > Dept. of Mathematics (Network Control group) Uni. of York. > www: http://manor.york.ac.uk/top.html

I've found that to optimize shifts on my setup (ACT RS with T2 pedals), I actually have to shift a fraction of a second BEFORE I let up on the gas. I use buttons, and as my finger is releasing the shift button my foot is coming off the gas. Only for a moment, and not all the way, then right back on. Took a long time to get the timing down, but I get smooth, quick shifts and I don't blow engines anymore. If I release the throttle first, then try to shift and get back on the gas, I over-rev the engine. There seems to be a slight delay between when I move the shifter and when the gearbox actually shifts. If I get right back on the gas immediately after shifting, the engine screams until the gearbox engages. Hope this helps. Zog

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> Thanks Richard and "5th doctor", > I've never used automatic shifting and/or braking help b.t.w. What makes you think > I did? > If I understand it correct: Short shifting is some sort of preserving your engine > (by not over revving), right? > What about shifting itself: I find it rather difficult to get the timing right > (especially with the LWFF pedals) between releasing the throttle, shift and back on > (full) throttle. Every now and then I'm a bit out of phase (so to say) and notice I > accomplish the opposite: The gearbox is overrevving way into the redzone. any tips > on this one? > (I have the feeling this is why I almost never finish an int. long session: My > engine fails at a certain point (lack of power and a very nervous rpm-needle)) > Jan. > > :> Short shifting is when the driver up shifts "short of the redline". The > > :> reasons are many. > > :> 1 you may save fuel shortshifting. > > :> 2 you may shortshift exiting a turn to help reduce wheelspin. > > :> 3 you may shortshift to avoid that whiney sound the engine makes at > > :> redline ;) > > :> 4 shortshifting helps reduce engine wear. > > :> I'm sure others will add some here... > > : Thanks, this explains what it accomplishes but now...... how's it done? (yeah, > > : I know I'm stupid, sorry for that). > > You can only do this if you're not using "automatic gears" - you'll > > find GPL is easier this way anyway. Simple change up a gear earlier > > than you normally would and change down a gear later. I.e. stay in > > higher gears for longer. > > -- > > Richard G. Clegg Only the mind is waving > > Dept. of Mathematics (Network Control group) Uni. of York. > > www: http://manor.york.ac.uk/top.html

Jan Hovius wrote [on short shifting]: [Please don't be offended if you already knew the following. I'm just making sure - and maybe it'll still help someone who just bought the game.] Hmm, just check one more thing there. The fuel pressure. That sounds exactly like GPL's out-of-fuel behaviour. Sadly, the gauges were left out of the documentation coming with the game. Go to http://www.voicenet.com/~jeffreyh/gpl/gplgauges.html and find out where the fuel pressure gauge is in your car. Check it, and if it has started dropping when this occurs, you're simply running out of fuel. (BTW, you can also get a numerical reading of the fuel pressure in the F10 external view). Cheers, /ft

>But I think you will find that double-declutching is a >thow-back to very early cars where you had to dis-engage the clutch >change into neutral, them dis-engage the clutch a second time >to change to the next gear, not sure about the reasons you had to do this >though. It has all to do with matching the rotation speed of the gears in the box to the speed of the driven wheels on the one side and the rpm of the engine on the other. If you downshift, you blip the throttle to make the engine rpm match the speed of the drivetrain in the new, lower gear. If you shift up a gear and double-declutch properly, you slow down the input shaft of the gearbox to a level that matches the ratio for the new, higher gear. I use this method sometimes when driving older cars with worn gearboxes. If you ever drive a car which is hard to put into gear, try it. Old trucks react most favorably to this procedure. With them, changing a gear takes so long it is easy to get the timing right. -- Wolfgang Preiss \ E-mail copies of replies to this posting are welcome.

>What about shifting itself: I find it rather difficult to get the timing right >(especially with the LWFF pedals) between releasing the throttle, shift and back on >(full) throttle. Every now and then I'm a bit out of phase (so to say) and notice I >accomplish the opposite: The gearbox is overrevving way into the redzone. any tips >on this one? I have the same problem. What we need is a force-feedback shifter, so we can ajust the time off-throttle to the actual shifting process. :) -- Wolfgang Preiss \ E-mail copies of replies to this posting are welcome.

Well the slight delay is the "driver" taking his hand off the wheel, moving it toward the shifter and then actually changing gears ;-) You should see this clearly when using the***pit view. I shift by changing the gear, wait a split second then off and on the gas. Jason. > There seems > to be a slight delay between when I move the shifter and when the gearbox actually > shifts. If I get right back on the gas immediately after shifting, the engine screams > until the gearbox engages. Hope this helps. > Zog -------- Jason Monds "My other car is a Ferrari" http://members.home.net/gpl.mondsj/gpl (Please remove 'no extra spork' when replying)

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> >What about shifting itself: I find it rather difficult to get the timing right > >(especially with the LWFF pedals) between releasing the throttle, shift and back on > >(full) throttle. Every now and then I'm a bit out of phase (so to say) and notice I > >accomplish the opposite: The gearbox is overrevving way into the redzone. any tips > >on this one? > I have the same problem. What we need is a force-feedback shifter, so > we can ajust the time off-throttle to the actual shifting process. :)

Logitech, are you listening!! There's work to be done over here. > -- > Wolfgang Preiss \ E-mail copies of replies to this posting are welcome. J.H.Hovius.vcf < 1K Download

J.H.Hovius.vcf < 1K Download

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> Jan Hovius wrote [on short shifting]: > > (I have the feeling this is why I almost never finish an int. long session: My > > engine fails at a certain point (lack of power and a very nervous rpm-needle)) > [Please don't be offended if you already knew the following. I'm just making > sure - and maybe it'll still help someone who just bought the game.] > Hmm, just check one more thing there. The fuel pressure. That sounds exactly > like GPL's out-of-fuel behaviour.

I'm not at all offended, in fact I will try to reproduce the effect by reducing the amount of fuel to one lap and see what happens in the second. Perhaps you're completely right since I don't often dare to access the setups (too afraid I'll mess-up). Thanks for your suggestion. Jan. J.H.Hovius.vcf < 1K Download

and FF-pedals, for the braking action of course ;-) <won't buy a FF wheel until there is an FF pedal unit> -- -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

>>But I think you will find that double-declutching is a >>thow-back to very early cars where you had to dis-engage the clutch >>change into neutral, them dis-engage the clutch a second time >>to change to the next gear, not sure about the reasons you had to do this >>though. "Very early cars" Well, the old "Standard" VW Bug, the plain German model, in the '50s, which was not exported to the States, had an UNsynchronzed gearbox which was impossible to shift up or down without doubleclutching. You learned rapidly to doubleclutch if you didn't like clashing sounds! Today I still do, as it gives the synchronizing gears little work to do and so they don't wear out. Sam

> > I have the same problem. What we need is a force-feedback shifter, so > > we can ajust the time off-throttle to the actual shifting process. :) > and FF-pedals, for the braking action of course ;-) > <won't buy a FF wheel until there is an FF pedal unit> You ARE joking, right? Cheers, /ft, doublechecking