What's the hell is wrong with Dell?

Today I get a phone call from Dell telling me how my order is illegal. They say that I have choose between my DVD or SCSI2 HD. They said that SCSI HDs are not compatible with DVDS. So if I want to keep mu SCSI have to replace my DVD with a CD-R which I don't want. And if I want to keep my DVD I have to replace my 17.5GB SCSI2 10000RPM with a 5400 37.5GBs HD. What the *** is their problem? I don't want a 37.5GB hd. And the HD I have on my two year old computer is 7200RPM and I don't want to upgrade from a PII300 to a PIII600 but then have a slower HD. Is this true that i can't have a DVD and a SCSI HD at the sametime? Thank You so much in advance Schumacher

didnt know this was rec.computer.problems

It might be true for Dells. I'd never really trust those brand computers anyway. They might integrate the SCSI controller on the mainboard instead of the IDE, but even then you should be able to get the functionality via an expansion card. I got a combination of IDE and SCSI on my PC and that works, but I haven't tried installing a DVD drive yet. Jan. ------ >Today I get a phone call from Dell telling me how my order is illegal. They ><snip>

1) They're blowin smoke up yer ass... There IS such a thing as a SCSI2 DVD drive. 2) The two hard drives you're citing are probably within 1 ms of each other in terms of access times. When you're running a P3/600, I very seriously doubt you'll be noticing the difference in speed. 3) SCSI is wholly unnecessary anymore because IDE drives are just as fast and a whole helluva lot cheaper. As far as money goes, the 17.5gb SCSI drive (if bought separately would cost somewhere in the $900 range, where an IDE drive of similar size would cost $350. 4) Build your own machine. -- ========================================================= Redneck Techno-Biker (Zerex12) http://www.members.home.net/jms1/index.html Barbarian Diecast Collector (370+ cars and counting) http://members.home.net/jsimm/diecast_index.html Internet Grand Prix Series Season 2 http://members.home.net/jsimm/diecast_index.html North American Stockcar Racing Online Competition http://www.paddedwall.org/nasroc1/nasroc1.html Super X Philes http://members.home.net/kap/superx/superx.html If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

The possibility is that they don't have any SCSI2 DVD drives as an option for their systems. I can't call my account manager to confirm it but it seems likely. Anyway... I bet that "Schumacher" only got SCSI because he heard it was faster. If he actually knew enough about the whole deal he wouldn't have complained here hed have talked to Dell. M

Actually no. I got a SCSI HD cause with the PIII 600. I got either get a ATA33 5400RPM 37.5GBs HD or an Ultra Wide SCSI2 HD with 17.5GBs. What am I going to do with 37.5GBs? Store the national archives? since the the SCSI2 HD costs as much as the other one, I decided to get the SCSI. If wouldn't have been "forced to" I would have never gotten a SCSI HD. And I am sure u would have done the same. schumacher

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> >1) They're blowin smoke up yer ass... > > There IS such a thing as a SCSI2 DVD drive. > The possibility is that they don't have any SCSI2 DVD drives as an option > for their systems. I can't call my account manager to confirm it but it > seems likely. > Anyway... I bet that "Schumacher" only got SCSI because he heard it was > faster. If he actually knew enough about the whole deal he wouldn't have > complained here hed have talked to Dell. > M

Nope, I would have gotten the 37.5 Gig HD.

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> Actually no. I got a SCSI HD cause with the PIII 600. I got either get a > ATA33 5400RPM 37.5GBs HD or an Ultra Wide SCSI2 HD with 17.5GBs. What am I > going to do with 37.5GBs? Store the national archives? since the the SCSI2 > HD costs as much as the other one, I decided to get the SCSI. If wouldn't > have been "forced to" I would have never gotten a SCSI HD. And I am sure u > would have done the same. > schumacher > > >1) They're blowin smoke up yer ass... > > > There IS such a thing as a SCSI2 DVD drive. > > The possibility is that they don't have any SCSI2 DVD drives as an

option

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> > for their systems. I can't call my account manager to confirm it but it > > seems likely. > > Anyway... I bet that "Schumacher" only got SCSI because he heard it was > > faster. If he actually knew enough about the whole deal he wouldn't have > > complained here hed have talked to Dell. > > M

Are you out of your tiny little mind? You actually refused 37.5Gb for a 17.5Gb disk? Some people... M

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>Actually no. I got a SCSI HD cause with the PIII 600. I got either get a >ATA33 5400RPM 37.5GBs HD or an Ultra Wide SCSI2 HD with 17.5GBs. What am >I going to do with 37.5GBs? Store the national archives? since the the >SCSI2 HD costs as much as the other one, I decided to get the SCSI. If >wouldn't have been "forced to" I would have never gotten a SCSI HD. And >I am sure u would have done the same. >schumacher >> >1) They're blowin smoke up yer ass... >> > There IS such a thing as a SCSI2 DVD drive. >> The possibility is that they don't have any SCSI2 DVD drives as an >> option for their systems. I can't call my account manager to confirm >> it but it seems likely. >> Anyway... I bet that "Schumacher" only got SCSI because he heard it >> was faster. If he actually knew enough about the whole deal he >> wouldn't have complained here hed have talked to Dell. >> M

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>Path: > mendelevium.btinternet.com!btnet-peer!btnet!newsfeed.direct.ca!newsfeed.tli.de >!newscore.gigabell.net!newscore.ipf.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!ayres.ftech.n >et!news.ftech.net!peer1.news.dircon.net!peer2.news.dircon.net!reader.news.dirco >n.net!not-for-mail >Newsgroups: rec.autos.simulators >Subject: Re: What's the hell is wrong with Dell? >User-Agent: Xnews/2.04.01 >X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.157.32.60 >Date: 25 Aug 1999 15:55:54 +0100 >X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.112.32.19 >Lines: 39 >NNTP-Posting-Host: newsread3.dircon.co.uk >X-Trace: reader.news.dircon.net 935592955 7406 194.112.32.19 >Xref: mendelevium.btinternet.com rec.autos.simulators:202920 >Status: N >Are you out of your tiny little mind? You actually refused 37.5Gb for a >17.5Gb disk? >Some people... >M

Yeah, but SCSI-2 or IDE. I can honestly say i'd have trouble filling 17GB. I'd go for the SCSi-2 as well. Z. Please remove NOSPAM from my email address when replying.

Well, he did say his name is Schumacher, so I guess that makes it okay in an OT kind of a way... :)

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> didnt know this was rec.computer.problems > > Today I get a phone call from Dell telling me how my order is illegal. > They > > say that I have choose between my DVD or SCSI2 HD. They said that SCSI HDs > > are not compatible with DVDS. So if I want to keep mu SCSI have to replace > > my DVD with a CD-R which I don't want. And if I want to keep my DVD I have > > to replace my 17.5GB SCSI2 10000RPM with a 5400 37.5GBs HD. What the *** > > is their problem? I don't want a 37.5GB hd. And the HD I have on my two > year > > old computer is 7200RPM and I don't want to upgrade from a PII300 to a > > PIII600 but then have a slower HD. Is this true that i can't have a DVD > and > > a SCSI HD at the sametime? > > Thank You so much in advance > > Schumacher

-- Rob Swindells 3rd equal in Goldline Bearing FFord Championship (18 Points); 9 points behind Championship Leader (as of round 4 of 6) "If you're a great driver, you will get through. It's not harder than any time before." ~Martin Brundle "If we could do this every week, we would be more consistent..." ~Bryan Robson (I think)

I thought I was teleported in alt.sys.pc-clone.dell ;-) -- <proud owner of a Dell PC> -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

scsi IS faster a 10,000 rpm ibm 9lzx IS faster than a 7200 rpm ide drive. the 9lzx has 4 megs of cache the largest cache on a ide drive is 2 megs, on the IBM drive. I tested my 9lzx at 19-20 megs per second (uwscsi bus) I tested my 5400rpm ide drive at 5-6 megs per second (ultra33 bus) I tested my brother's 7200 rpm drive at 12/13 megs per sec (ultra33 bus) And that's on a ultrawide scsi bus, not ultra2. SCSI is a lot a lot quicker when you have multiple devices on the same channel. 2 IDE devices cannot use 1 cable at the same time, 1 must go, then the other goes, then the other, etc..etc.. with scsi they can all go at the same time..hence the need for the80 meg/second bus speed. 20 meg/second each * 4 = 80 meg/second so you could have 4 10,000 rpm scsi devices on one channel and not lose any speed. get what i'm sayin?

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> >1) They're blowin smoke up yer ass... > > There IS such a thing as a SCSI2 DVD drive. > The possibility is that they don't have any SCSI2 DVD drives as an option > for their systems. I can't call my account manager to confirm it but it > seems likely. > Anyway... I bet that "Schumacher" only got SCSI because he heard it was > faster. If he actually knew enough about the whole deal he wouldn't have > complained here hed have talked to Dell. > M

That's because they don't want to sell you a fully loaded system. If they do, then the buyer will come back complaining that he/she can't upgrade. A very smart move on dell's part... If you buy the dell optiplex (rather than the dimensions), you get more pci slots, so you would probably be able to do what you want to do. Also the optiplex is a killer computer, it's SO easy to take apart, my brother has one and its incredible...It's a good inch or so wider than the dimensions, so make sure you've got desk room if you decide to go with the optiplex. Also The expansion cards are mounted vertically rather than horizontally. There is a whole rectangular thing that the expansion cards are held in, you pull a lever (i think) and out they come. Much easier to add expansion cards this way.. my brother had the same problem and he just added what he wanted after he got the initial system. So buy it with the scsi drive, then add the dvd drive later on. i'm guessing you want the following cards. video card (agp) scsi adapter (pci) sound card (pci or isa) dvd decoder card (pci) modem (pci/isa/external) missing anything? Oh yea, the new video cards (riva tnt2/voodoo3) are starting to come out with dvd hardware decoding on board, so you wouldn't need the additional dvd decoder card. P.S. It's a 18 gig scsi drive, i believe... are you getting the seagate or the ibm? get the ibm 18zx! i have the 9lzx and it rips. The ibm has got 2 (3?) more megs of cache than the seagate drive. That makes a big difference in performance.

Amen on rolling your own. Nothing worse than buying a system from a Best Buy guru and finding out how ***ing stupid he was. Dell sounds just as bad. Roll 'em if you got 'em. Rick

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> >Today I get a phone call from Dell telling me how my order is illegal. > They > >say that I have choose between my DVD or SCSI2 HD. They said that SCSI > HDs > >are not compatible with DVDS. So if I want to keep mu SCSI have to > replace > >my DVD with a CD-R which I don't want. And if I want to keep my DVD I > have > >to replace my 17.5GB SCSI2 10000RPM with a 5400 37.5GBs HD. What the > *** > >is their problem? I don't want a 37.5GB hd. And the HD I have on my two > year > >old computer is 7200RPM and I don't want to upgrade from a PII300 to a > >PIII600 but then have a slower HD. Is this true that i can't have a DVD > and > >a SCSI HD at the sametime? > 1) They're blowin smoke up yer ass... > There IS such a thing as a SCSI2 DVD drive. > 2) The two hard drives you're citing are probably within 1 ms > of each other in terms of access times. When you're running > a P3/600, I very seriously doubt you'll be noticing the > difference in speed. > 3) SCSI is wholly unnecessary anymore because IDE drives are > just as fast and a whole helluva lot cheaper. As far as > money goes, the 17.5gb SCSI drive (if bought separately > would cost somewhere in the $900 range, where an IDE drive > of similar size would cost $350. > 4) Build your own machine. > -- > ========================================================= > Redneck Techno-Biker (Zerex12) > http://www.members.home.net/jms1/index.html > Barbarian Diecast Collector (370+ cars and counting) > http://members.home.net/jsimm/diecast_index.html > Internet Grand Prix Series Season 2 > http://www.paddedwall.org/igps2/igps2.html > North American Stockcar Racing Online Competition > http://www.paddedwall.org/nasroc1/nasroc1.html > Super X Philes > http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast > If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown > above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. > =========================================================

SCSI is a waste of money. put the money saved in a nice PC sound system.

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> scsi IS faster > a 10,000 rpm ibm 9lzx IS faster than a 7200 rpm ide drive. > the 9lzx has 4 megs of cache > the largest cache on a ide drive is 2 megs, on the IBM drive. > I tested my 9lzx at 19-20 megs per second (uwscsi bus) > I tested my 5400rpm ide drive at 5-6 megs per second (ultra33 bus) > I tested my brother's 7200 rpm drive at 12/13 megs per sec (ultra33 bus) > And that's on a ultrawide scsi bus, not ultra2. > SCSI is a lot a lot quicker when you have multiple devices on the same > channel. 2 IDE devices cannot use 1 cable at the same time, 1 must go, then > the other goes, then the other, etc..etc.. > with scsi they can all go at the same time..hence the need for the80 > meg/second bus speed. > 20 meg/second each * 4 = 80 meg/second > so you could have 4 10,000 rpm scsi devices on one channel and not lose any > speed. > get what i'm sayin? > > >1) They're blowin smoke up yer ass... > > > There IS such a thing as a SCSI2 DVD drive. > > The possibility is that they don't have any SCSI2 DVD drives as an option > > for their systems. I can't call my account manager to confirm it but it > > seems likely. > > Anyway... I bet that "Schumacher" only got SCSI because he heard it was > > faster. If he actually knew enough about the whole deal he wouldn't have > > complained here hed have talked to Dell. > > M

I have 20 GBs and have no space left, if you play a lot of games like me, HL, GPL, N2 and take replays, you lose space really quickly, my GPL directory is over 3 gigs because of replays. -Stuart Becktell > >Path: mendelevium.btinternet.com!btnet-peer!btnet!newsfeed.direct.ca!newsfeed.tli. de >!newscore.gigabell.net!newscore.ipf.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!ayres.fte ch.n >et!news.ftech.net!peer1.news.dircon.net!peer2.news.dircon.net!reader.news.d irco

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> >n.net!not-for-mail > >Newsgroups: rec.autos.simulators > >Subject: Re: What's the hell is wrong with Dell? > >User-Agent: Xnews/2.04.01 > >X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.157.32.60 > >Date: 25 Aug 1999 15:55:54 +0100 > >X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.112.32.19 > >Lines: 39 > >NNTP-Posting-Host: newsread3.dircon.co.uk > >X-Trace: reader.news.dircon.net 935592955 7406 194.112.32.19 > >Xref: mendelevium.btinternet.com rec.autos.simulators:202920 > >Status: N > >Are you out of your tiny little mind? You actually refused 37.5Gb for a > >17.5Gb disk? > >Some people... > >M > Yeah, but SCSI-2 or IDE. I can honestly say i'd have trouble filling 17GB.

I'd > go for the SCSi-2 as well. > Z. > Please remove NOSPAM from my email address when replying.

their problem? Maybe they don't stock SCSI DVDs... Why not just swap the HDs since you are such an expert because you are getting SCSI. What are you going to be running anyways? GPL and N2 would be a little faster on SCSI, but you need to run something more hardware intensive to use it. And you are getting NT right? If they only have SCSI onboard, and they only have DVD IDE ones, then it isn't possible.

what is that suppose to mean?

nah it's really not though

So the deciding factor is you'd rather have ~less~ HD space? hmmmmmmm AKH

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> Actually no. I got a SCSI HD cause with the PIII 600. I got either get a > ATA33 5400RPM 37.5GBs HD or an Ultra Wide SCSI2 HD with 17.5GBs. What am I > going to do with 37.5GBs? Store the national archives? since the the SCSI2 > HD costs as much as the other one, I decided to get the SCSI. If wouldn't > have been "forced to" I would have never gotten a SCSI HD. And I am sure u > would have done the same. > schumacher > > >1) They're blowin smoke up yer ass... > > > There IS such a thing as a SCSI2 DVD drive. > > The possibility is that they don't have any SCSI2 DVD drives as an option > > for their systems. I can't call my account manager to confirm it but it > > seems likely. > > Anyway... I bet that "Schumacher" only got SCSI because he heard it was > > faster. If he actually knew enough about the whole deal he wouldn't have > > complained here hed have talked to Dell. > > M

> That's because they don't want to sell you a fully loaded system. If they > do, then the buyer will come back complaining that he/she can't upgrade. A > very smart move on dell's part... > If you buy the dell..... ...... Your one sad munchkin! DH

Now on eBay: The Stuart Becktell Video Collection... (j/k) -- - John P. Wilson :|: - Manager, Computer Renaissance: Round Rock, TX - http://www.computerrenaissance.com/

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>> Today I get a phone call from Dell telling me how my order is illegal. >They >> say that I have choose between my DVD or SCSI2 HD. They said that SCSIHDs >> are not compatible with DVDS. So if I want to keep my SCSI I have to >replace >> my DVD with a CD-R which I don't want. And if I want to keep my DVD I have >> to replace my 17.5GB SCSI2 10000RPM with a 5400 37.5GBs HD. What the > is >their problem?

Dell seems to do a lot of special "Dell" stuff. They can be a *** to upgrade. My struggles doing so with my Dell convinced me to build my own. These days it's pretty trivial with an ATX m'board/case. Just be sure to set the drive jumpers right. DAMHIK. bob

Mmmm, if I won that 18m on the lottery I know I'd never spend it, so I'd probably just take 9m.... <ahem> Cheers! John

But if my memory serves me correctly you're all hot for SCSI-2 anyway. However if you were told you couldn't have DVD with SCSI-2 and really wanted DVD would you honestly turn down the 37.5Gb IDE drive? Schumacher is just being stupid, with SCSI-2 he gets less disk space and fails to get the DVD drive he apparently wanted. Bad monkey M p.s. Next time try not to post my header when you reply to my posts, newbie :P

> > I have 20 GBs and have no space left, if you play a lot of games like me,

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> > HL, GPL, N2 and take replays, you lose space really quickly, my GPL > > directory is over 3 gigs because of replays. > > -Stuart Becktell > Now on eBay: The Stuart Becktell Video Collection... (j/k) > -- > - John P. Wilson :|: > - Manager, Computer Renaissance: Round Rock, TX > - http://www.computerrenaissance.com/

In my immediate family, we've had...5 dells in the past 8 years. We never had any problems with any of them, the tech support was always great. Upgrading was a breeze... true, but if you put a***in on the motherboard, where you weren't suppose to...poof....$150 down the drain as soon as the power switch is flipped. jumpers on the hd? That's ancient history on a lot of drives these days...especially the scsi's...

I would take the scsi-2 once i get the computer i would add the dvd (scsi or ide) then i would spend an extra $300 and get a huge ide drive for storage. Then I would go to Meiji show him how fast my system is with scsi and how much storage space i have and then i'd say "told ya so." He gets scsi-2, and the ability to add a huge ide drive whenever he feels like it He doesn't get the dvd with the computer, but can add it later

Completely different If you won the lottery and you could have 18m, but it had to be over a 70 year period or you could have the 9m right then and there which would you chose then? The scsi is faster and he's making a wise decision you can always add more storage later, but it's much harder to redo your computer with the scsi as the boot drive.

Like I said... he *wanted* DVD in particular but wasn't fussy over SCSI-2 or IDE. Now to my mind it is idiotic to say that I'll skip the feature I really want because the drive that I have to take with it is *too big*... Sorry, it doesn't make sense. Anyway, I know SCSI-2 is faster, I never said otherwise, my argument was that Schumacher was a moron, nothing else. M

The huge storage space coming, of course, from IDE. Of course you could have sacked the mucho-expensive SCSI-2 card and horrendously expensive SCSI-2 hard-disk and got three IDE hard disks of double the size for the same price, but then that would be too sensible. SCSI has it's place and is good where you _need_ to have it (mainly for low CPU occupancy, HD intensive apps or where adding daisy-chained devices is beneficial, but for loading GPL it's daft. He also wastes a truckload of money when he can buy a couple of huge IDE drives from the start. Cheers! John

Eh? In what way does that relate to getting a 37Gb IDE now (18m) or a SCSI of half-the size (9m). In both cases you get it now. Strange attempt at an analogy... I find it much harder to pay more money for less, especially when the "faster" is unnoticable. I have a couple of 10Gb EIDE in my system and I've never thought "I really wish this Excel spreadsheet would load more quickly". 2s to load rather than 2.5s is _really_ not worth all that extra cash - save the money and buy a better processor, graphics card or something you'll notice - a couple of bottles of 1994 Grange would be a better investment. Cheers! John

Yes, but if someone is daft enough to do that sort of thing then they should be, well, buying a Dell. I've built hundreds of systems over the years and I've never even come close to doing anything like that. Cheers! John

>1) They're blowin smoke up yer ass... > There IS such a thing as a SCSI2 DVD drive. There are a lot of companies that sell computers; if one won't give you the configuration you want, choose another. The opposite, I think. The faster the processor, the worse waiting for the disk feels. False; the fastest drives are still SCSI. Hop on over to www.storagereview.com and compare benchmark numbers between the fastest IDE and SCSI drives. This has more to do with 10000 vs. 7200 RPM as it does with SCSI vs. IDE interfaces. Absolutely. As much as I'd like a 10000 RPM SCSI drive, I just can't justify the cost. Agreed, but it's a lot of work if you don't already know what you're doing. But if you don't want to build your own, don't settle for a company that won't use the components of your choice. -- spamgard(tm): To email me, put "geek" in your Subject line.