CART 3?

Forgive me if this question has been asked before, but: I heard something a while back about Papyrus/Sierra working on a CART 3 sim based on the GPL engine. Lately, I have heard nothing. Does anyone know anything about this? Thanks, - Paul Ring

CART Sim Features Sheet Important ones denoted with * All tracks* Good but easy to use Track Editor All cars (none fictional)* Fantasy Tracks 8^) GPL Physics or N3 if not GPL* All teams (tobacco and *** if possible)* native RENDITION support*** drafting* 3d***pits* 3d Physics engine that simulates true CART handling* Resolutions like 800x600 and 1024x768* Excellent car damage model so that no two crashes look alike* Realistic flip effects,like GPL and not Andretti Racing (boo) Comprehensive car setups, including springs, shocks, camber, weight jacker on ovals, static ride height, dampers, rebounds, bump stops, etc. * Realistic effects like bottoming out* Realistic debris that you can run over and damage your car on Random tire blowouts* Oil and other fluids from engine failures* Fire (highly unlikely this will be allowed by CART)* Realistic wall types and wall effects (Armco barriers do more damage than concrete, tire walls do less damage than concrete, tire walls cause car to get airborne and flip more than concrete and armcos, etc.)* Realistic gravel trap effects (Come on, you know you wanna do an Andretti at Mid-Ohio, admit it...)* Improved Paintkit* realistic sounds actually digitally recorded* animated pit stops* area in pit road that can be drivin off into the infield to get to victory lane..or garage* realistic***pit that has hand on wheel like GPL* better frame rates/3d acceleration/1024x768 resolution* better engine, way more realistic damage to the car, the way the damage is spread across the track in real life...fliping catchin air on other tires* better smoke,skid marks and racing groove*, possible damage of the catch fencing* RED FLAGS* animated workers on the track after a wreck...and if possible ambulances or REAL tow-trucks* marks on the walls after a hit, animated flagmen* more options to change on the car in garage full field of cars* all the current tracks ( if possible...Indianapolis, since it rightfully is CART's) * realistic lookin part-time road courses like with the closed off streets and stuff* fire,fuel and oil leaks, (causin slippery race track)* possible damage to the pit wall..* animated OPPONENT pit stops* more realistic AI cars* weather changes like durin the race, rain, wind, etc* possible use of rain tires, and racing in the rain (regardless of if there was rain that season or not*)

Man... that's so true because those 3 or 4 Rendition users out there will be major league pissed if their shitty cards aren't supported. M ft1.aol.com>: <CUT>

Cmon let it go. Why have them waste their time trying to optimize the game for rendition when only a few people will have it. Maybe head for some D3D support for more compatibility for everyone, even the people that aren't diehard papy fans. Shocks are dampers and rebound is an adjustment on the shocks. I would say for setup, include everything that was in Cart Precision Racing. They had 3rd Spring adjustments and both Fast and Slow Bump and Rebound settings on the shocks so you could really modify the car to work well on the track. Everything was adjustable on the car in CPR. Just my opinions and comments that you might want to add to your list. If it is just YOUR wish list then Papy, please don't just listen to this guy. If we REALLY want to be organized, someone would make a website where you could vote on the various wishlist items but if papy is gonna make a cart sim, I am sure it will include everything we want in it. JB

Maybe one of the racing news site needs to do a poll to see how many people still have Rendition compared to a Voodoo product of a Nivida product, etc -- Jeff Murchison JR Screamers League Administrator http://members.tripod.com/grandprixlegends

yeah we can see if anyone needs 486 support while we're at it. With 3D cards now it's just something you just need to keep up with. D3D should cover everyone that has anything near modern. I would rather see them spend some more time on game issues than waste their time on supporting Rendition, and putting together a DOS port for those yet to upgrade to windows 95 or later... > Maybe one of the racing news site needs to do a poll to see how many people

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> still have Rendition compared to a Voodoo product of a Nivida product, etc > -- > Jeff Murchison JR > Screamers League Administrator > http://members.tripod.com/grandprixlegends > > > native RENDITION support*** > > Cmon let it go. Why have them waste their time trying to optimize the > game > > for rendition when only a few people will have it. Maybe head for some > D3D > > support for more compatibility for everyone, even the people that aren't > > diehard papy fans. > > >Comprehensive car setups, including springs, shocks, camber, weight > jacker > > on > > > ovals, static ride height, dampers, rebounds, bump stops, etc. * > > Shocks are dampers and rebound is an adjustment on the shocks. I would > say > > for setup, include everything that was in Cart Precision Racing. They

had > > 3rd Spring adjustments and both Fast and Slow Bump and Rebound settings on > > the shocks so you could really modify the car to work well on the track. > > Everything was adjustable on the car in CPR. > > Just my opinions and comments that you might want to add to your list. If > > it is just YOUR wish list then Papy, please don't just listen to this guy. > > If we REALLY want to be organized, someone would make a website where you > > could vote on the various wishlist items but if papy is gonna make a cart > > sim, I am sure it will include everything we want in it. > > JB

Ahh, does this mean they are working on CART3?

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> >Forgive me if this question has been asked before, but: > >I heard something a while back about Papyrus/Sierra working on a CART 3 sim > >based on the GPL engine. Lately, I have heard nothing. Does anyone know > >anything about this? > CART Sim Features Sheet > Important ones denoted with * > All tracks* > Good but easy to use Track Editor > All cars (none fictional)* > Fantasy Tracks 8^) > GPL Physics or N3 if not GPL* > All teams (tobacco and *** if possible)* > native RENDITION support*** > drafting* > 3d***pits* > 3d Physics engine that simulates true CART handling* > Resolutions like 800x600 and 1024x768* > Excellent car damage model so that no two crashes look alike* > Realistic flip effects,like GPL and not Andretti Racing (boo) > Comprehensive car setups, including springs, shocks, camber, weight jacker on > ovals, static ride height, dampers, rebounds, bump stops, etc. * > Realistic effects like bottoming out* > Realistic debris that you can run over and damage your car on > Random tire blowouts* > Oil and other fluids from engine failures* > Fire (highly unlikely this will be allowed by CART)* > Realistic wall types and wall effects (Armco barriers do more damage than > concrete, tire walls do less damage than concrete, tire walls > cause car to get airborne and flip more than concrete and armcos, etc.)* > Realistic gravel trap effects (Come on, you know you wanna do an Andretti at > Mid-Ohio, admit it...)* > Improved Paintkit* > realistic sounds actually digitally recorded* > animated pit stops* > area in pit road that can be drivin off into the infield to get to > victory lane..or garage* > realistic***pit that has hand on wheel like GPL* > better frame rates/3d acceleration/1024x768 resolution* > better engine, way more realistic damage to the car, the way the damage is > spread across the track in real life...fliping catchin air on other > tires* > better smoke,skid marks and racing groove*, > possible damage of the catch fencing* > RED FLAGS* > animated workers on the track after a wreck...and if possible > ambulances or REAL tow-trucks* > marks on the walls after a hit, animated flagmen* > more options to change on the car in garage > full field of cars* > all the current tracks ( if possible...Indianapolis, since it rightfully is > CART's) * > realistic lookin part-time road courses like with the closed off streets and > stuff* > fire,fuel and oil leaks, (causin slippery race track)* > possible damage to the pit wall..* > animated OPPONENT pit stops* > more realistic AI cars* > weather changes like durin the race, rain, wind, etc* > possible use of rain tires, and racing in the rain (regardless of if there was > rain that season or not*)

That website is a very good idea. I would be honored if you or someone else could make it. And then we can finally compile everything we would want. I can only think of so much to add to it.

> Maybe one of the racing news site needs to do a poll to see how many people > still have Rendition compared to a Voodoo product of a Nivida product, etc > -- > Jeff Murchison JR You don't have to do a survey. Just look at the business end. Is Diamond still producing Rendition based cards? Nope, they even gave the stealth name away to some S3 card or something. Is Hercules still making Renditions? Nope! They aren't even in business anymore? Creative labs? The guys who are still*** onto thier R-cards are still running ICR2 or GPL with 8 meg Hercs. when you compare the sheer NUMBER of 3dfx, and Nvidia cards that are on the market. NOBODY can justify wasting production resources on a card that isn't even produced anymore. Now if Micron ever gets the RRedline boys off thier researching butts and produces the wonder card they keep claiming they have under development...then I'll more than support continued Rendition support. But with the current #'s of units...Rendition support should be ABSOLUTELY last on a list of priorities. dave henrie who still uses his DSII Stealth, btw...til my V3 P3 shows up from Quantex that is...

haha I could see them coming out with dos support. Yes D3D would cover anyone and everyone with anything close to a modern vid card in their computers. If they get that support over with then they can focus on *** issues. You think they should also release the game on floppy? You gotta get a freight carrier to deliver the disks to your house. Ok its going a bit too far but I could see TRUSRS85 sitting there looking at the screen, "please insert disk 263 of 314". Oh well we can only dream. JB > yeah we can see if anyone needs 486 support while we're at it. With 3D cards > now it's just something you just need to keep up with. D3D should cover > everyone that has anything near modern. I would rather see them spend some > more time on game issues than waste their time on supporting Rendition, and

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> putting together a DOS port for those yet to upgrade to windows 95 or > later... > > Maybe one of the racing news site needs to do a poll to see how many > people > > still have Rendition compared to a Voodoo product of a Nivida product,

etc

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> > -- > > Jeff Murchison JR > > Screamers League Administrator > > http://members.tripod.com/grandprixlegends > > > > native RENDITION support*** > > > Cmon let it go. Why have them waste their time trying to optimize the > > game > > > for rendition when only a few people will have it. Maybe head for

some > > D3D > > > support for more compatibility for everyone, even the people that aren't

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> > > diehard papy fans. > > > >Comprehensive car setups, including springs, shocks, camber, weight > > jacker > > > on > > > > ovals, static ride height, dampers, rebounds, bump stops, etc. * > > > Shocks are dampers and rebound is an adjustment on the shocks. I

would > > say > > > for setup, include everything that was in Cart Precision Racing. They > had > > > 3rd Spring adjustments and both Fast and Slow Bump and Rebound settings > on > > > the shocks so you could really modify the car to work well on the track.

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> > > Everything was adjustable on the car in CPR. > > > Just my opinions and comments that you might want to add to your list. > If > > > it is just YOUR wish list then Papy, please don't just listen to this > guy. > > > If we REALLY want to be organized, someone would make a website where > you > > > could vote on the various wishlist items but if papy is gonna make a > cart > > > sim, I am sure it will include everything we want in it. > > > JB

Don't be rediculous... it'll be on 640k 5.25" floppies so you can over double that. I'm afraid that it's about time the people who made the mistake of buying rendition bit the bullet and bought a modern card. Hell, you can get Voodoo 2 or TNT cards really cheap these days so where's the problem. M

>I'm afraid that it's about time the people who made the mistake of buying >rendition bit the bullet and bought a modern card. Hell, you can get >Voodoo 2 or TNT cards really cheap these days so where's the problem. I don't think it was a "mistake" any more than buying a Voodoo1 was a mistake. At the time, it was perhaps the right card for them, at the right time. With time, especially with CPU's and 3D cards, technology moves on and you either move with it, or are left behind. Yes, I think Rendition V1 and V2 owners should give it up and accept that rendition-specific support is a thing of the past. And if they are avid gamers/racers, I too don't see why they don't accept the inevitable. Yes, Rendition may rise with the Phoenix, but for now, the clear big-hitters are 3dfx/STB V3 and TNT2 (with Matrox and S3 trailing).

Well Both David & Meiji I have a little "fyi" & put my 2 pennies in.. Maybe the Rendition chip is becoming somewhat outdated but I use a Herc Thriller V2 & Two Voodoo2s in SLI & no sim or game has stopped my video cards in their tracks yet!! So I believe right now you are "putting the Cart {no pun intended} in front of the horse!" Also Herc will have a V4400 out real soon! Final note; I use my Herc Thriller for my rendition versions of ICR2 and many other sims/games with no problems yet! All constructive comments welcome! Destructive flames go to rec.sesame.street.junk ;O) Cheers Thom_j. > >I'm afraid that it's about time the people who made the mistake of buying > >rendition bit the bullet and bought a modern card. Hell, you can get > >Voodoo 2 or TNT cards really cheap these days so where's the problem. > I don't think it was a "mistake" any more than buying a Voodoo1 was a mistake. > At the time, it was perhaps the right card for them, at the right time. With > time, especially with CPU's and 3D cards, technology moves on and you either > move with it, or are left behind. Yes, I think Rendition V1 and V2 owners > should give it up and accept that rendition-specific support is a thing of the > past. And if they are avid gamers/racers, I too don't see why they don't > accept the inevitable. Yes, Rendition may rise with the Phoenix, but for now, > the clear big-hitters are 3dfx/STB V3 and TNT2 (with Matrox and S3 trailing).

Voodoo 1 was not a mistake, even today. It's still usable as a lot of titles have Glide support and it is a reasonable D3D card providing you have no problem with running 640x480. Rendition, on the other hand is, as you rightly say, a thing of the past but the thing is, it was never really that good. It had the potential, sure, but with only Sierra really pushing it hard it was always doomed to failure. I also doubt their ability to create a good next generation card to be honest. It's so long since they did anything to attract the attentions of the world at large that most people have forgotten they ever existed. Same could be said for PowerVR but they have a certain console securing their future :) M

That is the way to do it... my initial point was that supporting Rendition natively in new games is a waste of time because the card is a dead standard and that rather than insisting on rendition support people would be better off grabbing a Voodoo 2 or TNT to help them run 3D games. M

>That is the way to do it... my initial point was that supporting Rendition >natively in new games is a waste of time because the card is a dead >standard and that rather than insisting on rendition support people would >be better off grabbing a Voodoo 2 or TNT to help them run 3D games. >M I'd go as far to say that Glide has joined RRedline as a defunct standard, and that OpenGl or D3D are the only path's to support. Sure, i'll hang on to a V2 for running some old stuff i have, occasionally, but to support Glide or any other "native" card support is simply out of date. Z. Please remove NOSPAM from my email address when replying.

Glide isn't dead yet... there are still games being released using it but the numbers are decreasing. However Voodoo/Voodoo 2 will still give you reasonable D3D/OpenGL performance so there's a reason to buy them, something you can't really say for Rendition. M

Name one, significant game today with only Glide support in the box. :) Sure GPL, but look how it's sales faired.... Z. Please remove NOSPAM from my email address when replying.

Don't start that again.

"O" ok Meiji; I see your point & makes sense to me but it will be hard for me to let go of a Rendition chipped card until some sim comes out to match the Rendition version of ICR2. I'd also love to have it updated using Gpl's engine!! So then my Rendition chipped Herc would come out of my PC in a "flash!" Sadly nothing has come close {imho} The Graphics for a DOS sim/game in ICR2 were way ahead of their time & still are!;O) Please do not miss-understand; I know the newer video cards coming out are better & faster. I just wish I had software for a good F1 or Cart to use it with! {And No I dont like any of the new F1 or OW type sim out now! Not 1! Sorry this is MO!} Cheers Thom_j.

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> That is the way to do it... my initial point was that supporting Rendition > natively in new games is a waste of time because the card is a dead > standard and that rather than insisting on rendition support people would > be better off grabbing a Voodoo 2 or TNT to help them run 3D games. > M > >Well Both David & Meiji I have a little "fyi" & put my 2 pennies in.. > >Maybe the Rendition chip is becoming somewhat outdated but I use > >a Herc Thriller V2 & Two Voodoo2s in SLI & no sim or game has > >stopped my video cards in their tracks yet!! So I believe right now > >you are "putting the Cart {no pun intended} in front of the horse!" > >Also Herc will have a V4400 out real soon! > >Final note; I use my Herc Thriller for my rendition versions > >of ICR2 and many other sims/games with no problems yet! > >All constructive comments welcome! Destructive flames go > >to rec.sesame.street.junk ;O) > >Cheers Thom_j.

Name one, significant game today with only Rendition support in the box. JB

> Also Herc will have a V4400 out real soon! Uhhh, you might want to peek a bit further down in this NG, down to the thread about "Herc" having gone belly-up, or maybe check out: [link lost in import] Sorry to be the (ump***th) bearer of bad tidings...... Condolences, Steve B.

I wasn't talking about Glide only but games with glide native support. If *you* can tell me a recent game with Rendition support native direct from the box I will be surprised. My comments were that people would be better off forgetting about native rendition support, getting a cheap 3dfx card and using that for glide, d3d and opengl instead. M

ha! i don't think so, thom....hercules is out of business. gone. kaput.... you may be waiting a looooong time for that new V4400! you are "putting the Cart {no pun intended} in front of the horse!" Also Herc will have a V4400 out real soon!

NASCAR 2

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> Name one, significant game today with only Rendition support in the box. > JB > > >Glide isn't dead yet... there are still games being released using it

but

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> > >the numbers are decreasing. However Voodoo/Voodoo 2 will still give you > > >reasonable D3D/OpenGL performance so there's a reason to buy them, > > >something you can't really say for Rendition. > > >M > > Name one, significant game today with only Glide support in the box. > > :) > > Sure GPL, but look how it's sales faired.... > > Z. > > Please remove NOSPAM from my email address when replying.

Please pay attention... NASCAR 2 was released around Xmas 96, hardly recent is it? M

>Please pay attention... NASCAR 2 was released around Xmas 96, hardly recent >is it? Compared to the rendition chipset, it is :-)

Hey, I am one of those three or four Rendition users!!!! Wow! How lucky can you get? ;-) ---A---

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> Man... that's so true because those 3 or 4 Rendition users out there will > be major league pissed if their shitty cards aren't supported. > M > ft1.aol.com>: > <CUT> > >native RENDITION support***

Bonus... I bet you have a betamax VCR and a Sinclair C5 too M

>Bonus... I bet you have a betamax VCR and a Sinclair C5 too >M i'd kill for a betamax VCR. They still trade for big money, you know. (the consumer versions). Z. Please remove NOSPAM from my email address when replying.

GPL? Or have I misinterpreted "recent"? -- Cheers! Graeme Nash (A Rendition user) http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk ICQ# 11257824 "Keyboard error or no keyboard attached. Press F1 for help"

Well I don't call GPL recent but if we do say that is recent, exclude all Sierra sourced games (after all Sierra pushed Rendition hard) and retry the enquiry :) M

GPL has already been discounted as suffering because it only supported two exclusive API's outa the box, and is sited as one of it's big sales flaws. Z. Please remove NOSPAM from my email address when replying.