I'm hoping that AMA Superbike game will get it right, no other game has.
<sigh>
The real shame may be that this title will sell ABSOLUTELY zero
in Europe. Even if AMA superbike delivers on the 'gpl' level of
physics, I just don't see any Euro guys giving up the GP500 license
for an American series. Who in Britain, would choose to race at
Branaird Minnesota instead of Brands Hatch? But since a couple of
the top riders are Kiwi's, you might see some sales to those Ozlanders
but, I really don't think we are gonna see a huge market. and brand
loyalty, the Ducati is such a *** ride right now, what Honda
fan will pick it up? any Muzzy Kawasaki fans?? I'm really looking
forward to this title, mainly since if it suceeds, it will pay off in
spades for the upcomming Can Am sim. but the odds are really stacked
against it..
dave henrie
> I'm hoping that AMA Superbike game will get it right, no other game has.
> <sigh>
I doubt that anyone ever will "get it right" with a m/c sim. Motorcycle
racing is just so much more "physical" than auto racing -- you have to
do a lot more with shifting your weight, etc. -- that it is almost
impossible to duplicate with the controls available when sitting in
front of a PC. Think about it: with wheels and pedals you can imagine
yourself driving a car when playing GPL or F1RS, but how close can you
get to the controls for a cycle? Not very! I'll take a look at the AMA
game when it comes out, but I've been ultimately disappointed by every
m/c racing sim that I've tried.
Doug G
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Kawi rules,I have a 98 ZX7R green baby:)
Quoted text (19 lines)
> The real shame may be that this title will sell ABSOLUTELY zero > in Europe. Even if AMA superbike delivers on the 'gpl' level of > physics, I just don't see any Euro guys giving up the GP500 license > for an American series. Who in Britain, would choose to race at > Branaird Minnesota instead of Brands Hatch? But since a couple of > the top riders are Kiwi's, you might see some sales to those Ozlanders > but, I really don't think we are gonna see a huge market. and brand > loyalty, the Ducati is such a *** ride right now, what Honda > fan will pick it up? any Muzzy Kawasaki fans?? I'm really looking > forward to this title, mainly since if it suceeds, it will pay off in > spades for the upcomming Can Am sim. but the odds are really stacked > against it.. > dave henrie > > I'm hoping that AMA Superbike game will get it right, no other game has. > > <sigh>>> The real shame may be that this title will sell ABSOLUTELY zero
>> in Europe. Even if AMA superbike delivers on the 'gpl' level of
>> physics, I just don't see any Euro guys giving up the GP500 license
>> for an American series. Who in Britain, would choose to race at
>> Branaird Minnesota instead of Brands Hatch?
500cc's do not race at Brands Hatch.
Both the British & World Superbike series do, however.
Likewise, the kiwi's run in World Superbikes.
Z.
Please remove NOSPAM from my email address when replying.
Quoted text (11 lines)
>>> The real shame may be that this title will sell ABSOLUTELY zero >>> in Europe. Even if AMA superbike delivers on the 'gpl' level of >>> physics, I just don't see any Euro guys giving up the GP500 license >>> for an American series. Who in Britain, would choose to race at >>> Branaird Minnesota instead of Brands Hatch? >500cc's do not race at Brands Hatch. >Both the British & World Superbike series do, however. >Likewise, the kiwi's run in World Superbikes.> I doubt that anyone ever will "get it right" with a m/c sim. Motorcycle
> racing is just so much more "physical" than auto racing -- you have to
> do a lot more with shifting your weight, etc. -- that it is almost
> impossible to duplicate with the controls available when sitting in
> front of a PC.
I'm sad to say that I have to agree on that.... Even though I'm a ***
motorcycle racing fan and Ducatista, (tested the demo for world superbike in
The Ducati factory lunch resturant at Borgo Panigale, Bologna on a big
screen back in June '98 :-))
But to accurately duplicate a real life bike to a computer game is just not
possible... To ride a bike on a track close to the limit is to a large
extent a matter of what you feel, How hard can I brake, how fast can I throw
the bike into lean, knee on ground, is the front close to wash out, is the
rear gripping enough, can I give it more trottle.... Its just not possible
to do this by what you see on a screen not even with the best FF in the
world....
I do have SBK, but It started to gather dust on my shelf after 3 weeks, I
got back to GPL....
/Bj.O.rn, SDK #1225
I've thought about that, I kinda think the Flight sim guys
will have the answer. Motorsims claimed they had many many controller
options already figured out..which I hope is true and is good. Think
about a typical hard core flight sim setup.
Joystick, Throttle, pedals.
With the pedals you have the gas and brake. I know it's not the
Motorcycle roll on throttle but what the heck. With the throttle, you
have a front/rear weight transfer. With the joystick you can have
left/right weight transfer add all these together and you have the
basic elements of a pretty sophisticated conrol setup. Do-able?
could this be the answer to a good motorcycle controller?
dave henrie
Quoted text (18 lines)
> > I'm hoping that AMA Superbike game will get it right, no other game > has. > > <sigh> > I doubt that anyone ever will "get it right" with a m/c sim. Motorcycle > racing is just so much more "physical" than auto racing -- you have to > do a lot more with shifting your weight, etc. -- that it is almost > impossible to duplicate with the controls available when sitting in > front of a PC. Think about it: with wheels and pedals you can imagine > yourself driving a car when playing GPL or F1RS, but how close can you > get to the controls for a cycle? Not very! I'll take a look at the AMA > game when it comes out, but I've been ultimately disappointed by every > m/c racing sim that I've tried. > Doug G > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Share what you know. Learn what you don't.Quoted text (12 lines)
> I've thought about that, I kinda think the Flight sim guys > will have the answer. Motorsims claimed they had many many controller > options already figured out..which I hope is true and is good. Think > about a typical hard core flight sim setup. > Joystick, Throttle, pedals. > With the pedals you have the gas and brake. I know it's not the > Motorcycle roll on throttle but what the heck. With the throttle, you > have a front/rear weight transfer. With the joystick you can have > left/right weight transfer add all these together and you have the > basic elements of a pretty sophisticated conrol setup. Do-able? > could this be the answer to a good motorcycle controller? > dave henrieI disagree. While yes, there are more inputs to racing a motorcycle, not
all of them are absolutely necessary for a game to feel right or be a good
sim. Take GP500 for example, enter a turn fast as you can and throw the
bike hard into the turn. Does the bike loose its front wheel and go
tumbling into the dirt? Nope. This is simply terrible physics. And the lean
angle that can be achieved in the sand trap or grass is total fiction in
GP500.
I dont need complexity of controls or game operation, I just want the damn
physics to be and feel right for once!!
Put the game on simulation for one. Also, the developers already said
the demo's physics were toned down so players would not get
discouraged right away.
> I doubt that anyone ever will "get it right" with a m/c sim. Motorcycle
> racing is just so much more "physical" than auto racing -- you have to
> do a lot more with shifting your weight, etc. -- that it is almost
> impossible to duplicate with the controls available when sitting in
> front of a PC.
It could probably be done with the "Fly By Wire approach" used for planes. The
idea being that you don't tell the plane what the position of the control
surfaces should be, you tell it what you want it to do. Then the FBW makes the
necessary control surface deflections to get it there (within what the flight
envelope allows, of course).
If you apply this to a bike sim, you'd be giving input telling the computer
that you want to turn harder and the "virtual you" on the bike would be
assumed by the computer to know how to distribute his/her weight around
correctly.
Of course, this gives less control. E.g. if you can do the same turn by either
shifting your weight or turning the handle bars (I don't know what racing
500cc bikes are like, all the bikes I ride have pedals for propulsion) the
computer makes this decision and not you. But overall, I think it's the only
reasonable way. How much you lean out oughta be pretty much intuitive when
you're on a bike for real - not so if you're using a joystick to lean with.
Just my $.02.
Cheers,
/ft
> Put the game on simulation for one. Also, the developers
> already said the demo's physics were toned down so players
> would not get discouraged right away.
What about those of us who 'get discouraged' from buying
the game because the demo doesn't have the level of
accuracy we are looking for? The demo already has a
button that toggles between simulation mode and arcade
mode, why tone down the simulation mode to make the
arcade players happy? Add an intermediate mode if that
is truly a concern.
The point of a demo is to give prospective buyers a chance
to test out a product before they actaully have to commit
to buying it. In this manner, we can make an informed
decision about whether the developers actually delivered
on the claims their marketing department has made. I'm
afraid further promises from either camp isn't really useful
in that decision making process.
Hopefully another demo will be released that contains the
complete physics model in it's final shipping form so that
those of us that are looking for complete realism can make
an informed decision.
That said I would still rate the GP500 demo above all other
motorcycle games in terms of accuracy (that would also
include the current beta of AMA Superbike Racing).
- George
Aw man, I sure hope you're wrong on this one. Its my last hope. Dont
think there are any other cycle sims in the make?
