GPL: MSFF Sadness:-(((((((((

Hi all, Last Wednesday my Thrustmaster died and I ordered an MSFF to replace it. It arrived this morning but I'm having serious troubles with it. When Force feedback is disabled in core.ini the wheel works fine. But when I enable it GPL takes about ten seconds from me clicking the green button and the car appearing in the pits. Then it will just sit there dumb, not responding. I'll press a few buttons and it'll come to life, but when I drive I'm pretty sure I'm feeling no FF effects. I can't feel the wheel tightening in turns, I can't feel "weight transfer", I can drive head on into a wall at 180mph and the wheel won't jolt, and so on When I do "test forces" in Control Panel they work fine. But in GPL I have the force button on the wheel lit green all the time, and there are no effects! I'm using the default values for the wheel in core.ini. Is there a specific profile I need? Help!!!! -- Thanks in Advance! Graeme Nash http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk ICQ# 11257824

I would suggest a GPL re-install or re-patch. If the Control Panel tests work, then the MSFF drivers sound OK, but mine worked fine in GPL first time with the only change in the Core.ini being the switch to turn FF on. (Still have the screwed up frame-rate though - when are they gonna release the patch?!!!) Try the wheel in some other FF games first to make sure, (you HAVE to try the FF in Viper Racing for instance), and if they work, do the GPL re-install/patch. As for profiles, the only things in my Sidewinder GPL profile are the split-axis setting (which is cool) and I've mapped Shift-R and the change view key (F10?) to buttons so I can use them from the wheel in game. You really shouldn't need to do anything else. Mike West 3DNow! UK: www.3dnow.freeserve.co.uk

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> Hi all, > Last Wednesday my Thrustmaster died and I ordered an MSFF to replace it. > It arrived this morning but I'm having serious troubles with it. > When Force feedback is disabled in core.ini the wheel works fine. But > when I enable it GPL takes about ten seconds from me clicking the green > button and the car appearing in the pits. > Then it will just sit there dumb, not responding. I'll press a few > buttons and it'll come to life, but when I drive I'm pretty sure I'm > feeling no FF effects. I can't feel the wheel tightening in turns, I > can't feel "weight transfer", I can drive head on into a wall at 180mph > and the wheel won't jolt, and so on > When I do "test forces" in Control Panel they work fine. But in GPL I > have the force button on the wheel lit green all the time, and there are > no effects! > I'm using the default values for the wheel in core.ini. Is there a > specific profile I need? Help!!!! > -- > Thanks in Advance! > Graeme Nash > http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk > ICQ# 11257824

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> Hi all, > Last Wednesday my Thrustmaster died and I ordered an MSFF to replace it. > It arrived this morning but I'm having serious troubles with it. > When Force feedback is disabled in core.ini the wheel works fine. But > when I enable it GPL takes about ten seconds from me clicking the green > button and the car appearing in the pits. > Then it will just sit there dumb, not responding. I'll press a few > buttons and it'll come to life, but when I drive I'm pretty sure I'm > feeling no FF effects. I can't feel the wheel tightening in turns, I > can't feel "weight transfer", I can drive head on into a wall at 180mph > and the wheel won't jolt, and so on > When I do "test forces" in Control Panel they work fine. But in GPL I > have the force button on the wheel lit green all the time, and there are > no effects! > I'm using the default values for the wheel in core.ini. Is there a > specific profile I need? Help!!!!

The only profile you need is one with seperate axis, and buttons programmed after your choise if you want CTRL-R or something mapped to the wheel. Are you sure you have before the allow_force_feedback=1 (or whatever) line a line that says [Joy] ? Look in the core.ini.sample file, if you don't have the header FF won't work. Have you tried the wheel with other games like SCGT or TOCA2 ? Don't give up, I have a great time with GPL1.1. and MSFF. -- Olav K. Malmin remove spam when replying

I have the same wheel set and I only had to change the core settings to 1 but what I did find later was to turn self centring off on the msff control panel it makes the wheel going light on corners a lot more responsive. Regards Bob

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> > Hi all, > > Last Wednesday my Thrustmaster died and I ordered an MSFF to replace it. > > It arrived this morning but I'm having serious troubles with it. > > When Force feedback is disabled in core.ini the wheel works fine. But > > when I enable it GPL takes about ten seconds from me clicking the green > > button and the car appearing in the pits. > > Then it will just sit there dumb, not responding. I'll press a few > > buttons and it'll come to life, but when I drive I'm pretty sure I'm > > feeling no FF effects. I can't feel the wheel tightening in turns, I > > can't feel "weight transfer", I can drive head on into a wall at 180mph > > and the wheel won't jolt, and so on > > When I do "test forces" in Control Panel they work fine. But in GPL I > > have the force button on the wheel lit green all the time, and there are > > no effects! > > I'm using the default values for the wheel in core.ini. Is there a > > specific profile I need? Help!!!! > The only profile you need is one with seperate axis, and buttons

programmed > after your choise if you want CTRL-R or something mapped to the wheel. > Are you sure you have before the allow_force_feedback=1 (or whatever) line > a line that says [Joy] ? Look in the core.ini.sample file, if you don't have

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> the header FF won't work. > Have you tried the wheel with other games like SCGT or TOCA2 ? > Don't give up, I have a great time with GPL1.1. and MSFF. > -- > Olav K. Malmin > remove spam when replying

> Are you sure you have before the allow_force_feedback=1 (or whatever) line > a line that says [Joy] ? Look in the core.ini.sample file, if you don't have > the header FF won't work. In fact are you sure you have copied core.ini.sample to core.ini? If you didn't GPL uses it's builtin default settings thus no FF! (Microsoft in all its wisdom thought it would be nice to default don't show extensions for files because it only confuses us dumb users this way causing a lot of confusion on what's a file's full name. Let's all praise Bill!!!)

Correct. The default name of the file is core.ini.sample. If you did not change the default file view properties you will not see the .sample and think you have core.ini when in fact it is still core.ini.sample. -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com >> Are you sure you have before the allow_force_feedback=1 (or whatever) line >> a line that says [Joy] ? Look in the core.ini.sample file, if you don't have >> the header FF won't work. >In fact are you sure you have copied core.ini.sample to core.ini? If you didn't >GPL uses it's builtin default settings thus no FF! >(Microsoft in all its wisdom thought it would be nice to default don't show >extensions for files because it only confuses us dumb users this way causing a >lot of confusion on what's a file's full name. Let's all praise Bill!!!)

In the core.ini you should have these settings: [ Joy ] allow_force_feedback = 1 force_feedback_damping = 15.000000 force_feedback_latency = 0.065000 max_steering_torque = 160.000000 the easiest way is to rename the core.ini.sample in your gpl directory into core.ini and change the line allow_force_feedback = 0 into 1 then in the windows control panel is better to have these settings: force feedback rate: maximum retun to center: none (I think this parameter is very important for GPL FF style) (note that my windows is in italian, so maybe in the control panel you will find different names, I tried to translate them...) Sorry for my bad english, bye and have fun with GPL. -- geps. GPL Italia il sito tutto italiano dedicato a Grand Prix Legends http://web.tiscalinet.it/GPLItalia/ > > Hi all, > > Last Wednesday my Thrustmaster died and I ordered an MSFF to replace it. > > It arrived this morning but I'm having serious troubles with it. > > When Force feedback is disabled in core.ini the wheel works fine. But > > when I enable it GPL takes about ten seconds from me clicking the green > > button and the car appearing in the pits. > > Then it will just sit there dumb, not responding. I'll press a few > > buttons and it'll come to life, but when I drive I'm pretty sure I'm > > feeling no FF effects. I can't feel the wheel tightening in turns, I > > can't feel "weight transfer", I can drive head on into a wall at 180mph > > and the wheel won't jolt, and so on > > When I do "test forces" in Control Panel they work fine. But in GPL I > > have the force button on the wheel lit green all the time, and there are > > no effects! > > I'm using the default values for the wheel in core.ini. Is there a > > specific profile I need? Help!!!!

Thanks for the replies everyone... I'll keep you posted on how it goes as today things are going from bad to worse :-) I have the correct core.ini with the "Enable FF" setting to "1" but at the moment GPL is not having it. I've tried it with other sims - the wheel works fine in GP2, and the FF works fine in CART Precision and MTM2, but in TOCA 2 whenever I use the wheel the game crashes at the "Loading Track" screen. My GPL CD seems to be scratched or something because whenever I try a reinstall it crashes with an "Error 117" whist copying the Mosport track files. I tried just reinstalling the 1.1 patch but that didn't work. <sigh> One day.... :-) -- Cheers! Graeme Nash http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk ICQ# 11257824

>I have the correct core.ini with the "Enable FF" setting to "1" but at >the moment GPL is not having it. If you modified your old core.ini file, see to it that the 'enable FF' line has the correct header above it. It should look like this: [ Joy ] allow_force_feedback = 1 ; Use FF if device has it Other than that - no idea. -- Wolfgang Preiss \ E-mail copies of replies to this posting are welcome.

Ah well... reinstalling GPL didn't work either. It's a really weird problem as the FF works fine in other games and when FF is disabled in core.ini the wheel works fine in GPL. But as soon as I turn on FF things go wrong. Sometimes it will work as it does with FF disabled, and other times it will just sit there, unresponsive. The only things I can do in this situation are the actions I have mapped to keyboard functions such as raising the arm or looking either side. Any further ideas? I have a new PC on order so maybe I should wait to see if it works on that - but if I do, and it still doesn't work, it'll be too late to send the wheel back to where I got it from :-(((( -- Cheers! Graeme Nash http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk ICQ# 11257824

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> >Thanks for the replies everyone... I'll keep you posted on how it goes > >as today things are going from bad to worse :-) > Ah well... reinstalling GPL didn't work either. It's a really weird > problem as the FF works fine in other games and when FF is disabled in > core.ini the wheel works fine in GPL. > But as soon as I turn on FF things go wrong. Sometimes it will work as > it does with FF disabled, and other times it will just sit there, > unresponsive. The only things I can do in this situation are the actions > I have mapped to keyboard functions such as raising the arm or looking > either side. > Any further ideas? I have a new PC on order so maybe I should wait to > see if it works on that - but if I do, and it still doesn't work, it'll > be too late to send the wheel back to where I got it from :-((((

I have this weird problem with SCGT, that if I start the game from the START- menu, steering doesn't work, but the pedals do. If I put in the CD and select PLAY from the menu that pops up, steering works fine. Have you tried starting GPL by selecting PLAY from the Sierra-box that let you choose to play, play intro movie or quit when you put in the CD ? -- Olav K. Malmin remove spam when replying

Thanks for the help, but that didn't work either :-((((( Do you think it could be CPU-related? I only have a P200, so maybe it's possible that GPL is putting too much load through the CPU for the FF to work? -- Cheers! Graeme Nash http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk ICQ# 11257824

On Wed, 18 Aug 1999 16:06:35 +0100, Graeme Nash

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>>Have you tried starting GPL by selecting PLAY from the Sierra-box that let you >>choose to play, play intro movie or quit when you put in the CD ? >Thanks for the help, but that didn't work either :-((((( >Do you think it could be CPU-related? I only have a P200, so maybe it's >possible that GPL is putting too much load through the CPU for the FF to >work?

I very much doubt that would be the case. I've a 3 pc's and one of them is p233mmx and I can run GPL at 640x480 with 10 cars and a lot of the details turned off between 25fps and 30fps, with a MSFF wheel, whcih I used for playing sims for over a year. I can tell you that I haven't even experienced any frame rate losses with the FF in GPL 1.1. I understand your wheel works fine on other games, so I would assume the wheel and the directx are working fine. Are you using a sidewinder profile to play the game? What do you get when you try to calibrate the wheel in gpl? What are the FF settings in you core.ini? What sound card do you have installed? Have you tried the settings below in your core.ini? force_feedback_latency = 0.085 force_feedback_damping = 30.0 max_steering_torque =200.0 One thing is for sure, if you can get the wheel to work with FF in any other game then the problem lies in GPL and nowhere else. I was surprised to see you this post still going on as the msff wheel is usually the easiest to get working, in theory anyway.

Hi, Yep - I've configured separate axes and mapped shift+r to the left paddle. When I enable FF in core.ini I can calibrate the wheel no problem. Then I get into the car and there's no response. If I leave the track and try to calibrate after this, there's no response there, either. Default from the core.ini.sample which I renamed to core.ini. Sound Blaster Pro (Don't laugh!) I really think this may be the trouble. Don't know why though. Maybe because it's a 4-year-old card? Just tried them - still didn't work. :-) -- Cheers! Graeme Nash http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk ICQ# 11257824

The FF on the MSFF wheel is achieved by sending midi signals through the game port (I think), so it's possible it's something to do with your soundcard not supporting midi in this way properly. The only thing is, I don't see how it would then work with other games, unless something in the programming of GPL conflicts with something in the sound card drivers, preventing full functionality. (Isn't that a great word? It's one of those words that could only ever be associated with computers or psychiatry..... hehe, I guess you have a dysfunctional PC! ;-P ) Do you know anyone who could lend you a sound card to try? (Just DON'T forget to remove the old one in Windoze first if it's an ISA device, or the drivers are likely to go screwy!) Hope this helps muddy the waters even further..... :-) Mike.

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> Hi, > >Are you using a sidewinder > >profile to play the game? > Yep - I've configured separate axes and mapped shift+r to the left > paddle. > >What do you get when you try to calibrate the wheel in gpl? > When I enable FF in core.ini I can calibrate the wheel no problem. Then > I get into the car and there's no response. If I leave the track and try > to calibrate after this, there's no response there, either. > >What are the FF settings in you core.ini? > Default from the core.ini.sample which I renamed to core.ini. > >What sound card do you have installed? > Sound Blaster Pro (Don't laugh!) I really think this may be the trouble. > Don't know why though. Maybe because it's a 4-year-old card? > >Have you tried the settings below in your core.ini? > >force_feedback_latency = 0.085 > >force_feedback_damping = 30.0 > >max_steering_torque =200.0 > Just tried them - still didn't work. > >>AAARRRGH<< > :-) > -- > Cheers! > Graeme Nash > http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk > ICQ# 11257824

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> Hi, > >Are you using a sidewinder > >profile to play the game? > Yep - I've configured separate axes and mapped shift+r to the left > paddle. > >What do you get when you try to calibrate the wheel in gpl? > When I enable FF in core.ini I can calibrate the wheel no problem. Then > I get into the car and there's no response. If I leave the track and try > to calibrate after this, there's no response there, either. > >What are the FF settings in you core.ini? > Default from the core.ini.sample which I renamed to core.ini. > >What sound card do you have installed? > Sound Blaster Pro (Don't laugh!) I really think this may be the trouble. > Don't know why though. Maybe because it's a 4-year-old card? > >Have you tried the settings below in your core.ini? > >force_feedback_latency = 0.085 > >force_feedback_damping = 30.0 > >max_steering_torque =200.0 > Just tried them - still didn't work. > >>AAARRRGH<<

Don't panic :) In the control panel, if you select Test Forces, do it take a very long time before the picture of the wheel appears ? That might indicate some FF trouble, but as long as it works with other games, there shouldn't be. Actually, when I thing about it, I do have the same problem with Toca 2. Sometimes it won't recognize my wheel at all. To fix this I went to the test forces window and out again, and after that it worked. So try to reboot, go to the Sidewinder Control Panel, Test Forces, fiddle around a little, and then exit, then try GPL. And are you absolutely positively sure that you got that [ Joy ] header before allow_force_feedback=1 ? A stupid question, but sometimes the solution to weird problems are right in front of your eyes all the time. -- Olav K. Malmin remove spam when replying

I too still use a p200 from time to time Graeme. t works fine I am sorry (in your case) to report mate. Mark > >Have you tried starting GPL by selecting PLAY from the Sierra-box that let you

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> >choose to play, play intro movie or quit when you put in the CD ? > Thanks for the help, but that didn't work either :-((((( > Do you think it could be CPU-related? I only have a P200, so maybe it's > possible that GPL is putting too much load through the CPU for the FF to > work? > -- > Cheers! > Graeme Nash > http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk > ICQ# 11257824

Try deleting the controls.cfg file in your gpl\players\graeme_nash folder, gpl has been knowen to***up this file. Mark London UK

Just a long shot - I wonder if any of the FF lines in the core.ini are remarked with a " ; ". Also I wonder if the core.ini is actually loading ie; it's not just a text file. Regards, Andrew.

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>>Thanks for the replies everyone... I'll keep you posted on how it goes >>as today things are going from bad to worse :-) >Ah well... reinstalling GPL didn't work either. It's a really weird >problem as the FF works fine in other games and when FF is disabled in >core.ini the wheel works fine in GPL. >But as soon as I turn on FF things go wrong. Sometimes it will work as >it does with FF disabled, and other times it will just sit there, >unresponsive. The only things I can do in this situation are the actions >I have mapped to keyboard functions such as raising the arm or looking >either side. >Any further ideas? I have a new PC on order so maybe I should wait to >see if it works on that - but if I do, and it still doesn't work, it'll >be too late to send the wheel back to where I got it from :-(((( >-- >Cheers! >Graeme Nash >http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk >ICQ# 11257824