LWFF with ball bearings.

WOW cool informative site. Good work on that! -- Sean Higgins "HigPup" "Hollywood" for R6 "Hollywood__NWO" for ZONE http://home.sprintmail.com/~higgy/hsts2/ HSTS, Powered by ATI Rage 128 http://home.sprintmail.com/~higgy/ http://www.colormation.com Colormation (sponsor of H.O. Motorsports) http://www.atitech.ca ATI Technologies >I have finaly put up a site about modifying the Logitech Wingman Formula >Force with ball bearings. Here is the URL: >http://w1.111.telia.com/~u11103812/lwff.htm >And thanks to Dave Kickhafer for the help with proof reading! >-- >/M Lindqvist >Spamguard: Remove .ajabaja in e-mail

I have finaly put up a site about modifying the Logitech Wingman Formula Force with ball bearings. Here is the URL: http://w1.111.telia.com/~u11103812/lwff.htm And thanks to Dave Kickhafer for the help with proof reading! -- /M Lindqvist Spamguard: Remove .ajabaja in e-mail

Well I don't have a LWFF myself, but still want to say that this is one hell of an article. Great pictures and drawings. Very well done! Bart Westra

All this looks great and I would love to upgrade my LWFF with these modifications. Unfortunately, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you are machining some custom steel sleeves? I can do the assembly/disassembly and the more minor modifications, but not the machining. So I have a proposition for you... How about creating some kind of kit that you can sell? I know it's probably not a fun idea, but you've done it before so the 2nd time should be easier. I'm willing to shell out a good chunk of change. If these improvements do what you say, I'd even consider having a new wheel delivered to your door that you could "build" for me. What do ya think? You've done a great thing here....taken a FF wheel and given it a premium feel. I've contacted ECCI, Thomas, SRC Wheels, and Ball Racing about their plans for FF and the responses have been lukewarm. ECCI has designed the wheel to accept FF, Thomas is worried about cost and licensing, SRC never wrote back, and Ball Racing is in the R&D process as we speak. Forget all of them. You've done what I would like to do, I just don't have the tools to do it myself. I don't know where I'm going with this....too much caffine... but congratulations. Great work, article and web page. -Andrew Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

Very interesting article, gonna try it this weekend! It look very promising. Thanks, Andre On Wed, 18 Aug 1999 08:38:03 +0200, "Bart Westra"

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>Well I don't have a LWFF myself, but still want to say that this is one hell >of an >article. Great pictures and drawings. Very well done! >Bart Westra >> I have finaly put up a site about modifying the Logitech Wingman Formula >> Force with ball bearings. Here is the URL: >> http://w1.111.telia.com/~u11103812/lwff.htm >> And thanks to Dave Kickhafer for the help with proof reading! >> -- >> /M Lindqvist >> Spamguard: Remove .ajabaja in e-mail

Very nice and detailed webpage, wow! I must say some of those modifications look very tempting, but I managed to disassemble my LWFF shortly after I purchased it and had a hell of a time getting the cable + motor + wheel gear assemblies to line up the proper way so that they would give the proper range of motion once assembled, it's not something I would look forward to doing again soon. But you do mention some helpful hints on doing this so maybe one of these days I will have the patience to do some of those bearing upgrades. Thanks for detailing that so well. Seeyas on the track. --John (Joao) Silva

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>I have finaly put up a site about modifying the Logitech Wingman Formula >Force with ball bearings. Here is the URL: >http://w1.111.telia.com/~u11103812/lwff.htm >And thanks to Dave Kickhafer for the help with proof reading! >-- >/M Lindqvist >Spamguard: Remove .ajabaja in e-mail

Do you have the equipment to make the required parts? -Andrew

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> Very interesting article, gonna try it this weekend! > It look very promising. > Thanks, > Andre > On Wed, 18 Aug 1999 08:38:03 +0200, "Bart Westra" > >Well I don't have a LWFF myself, but still want to say that this is one hell > >of an > >article. Great pictures and drawings. Very well done! > >Bart Westra > >> I have finaly put up a site about modifying the Logitech Wingman Formula > >> Force with ball bearings. Here is the URL: > >> http://w1.111.telia.com/~u11103812/lwff.htm > >> And thanks to Dave Kickhafer for the help with proof reading! > >> -- > >> /M Lindqvist > >> Spamguard: Remove .ajabaja in e-mail

Me too. I have no skills to do what he did , but it would be a great thing to have it done. sandor

Excellent article, well illustrated, in short: DA STUFF! :-) I have noticed a bit of sloppiness in the plastic bearings of the Logitech myself. I am pretty satisfied with it, but I suspect the plastic bearings will wear over time, and swallow more and more of the subtle forces... In fact I have several more ideas on how to improve the design of the thing: - I'd like the possibility to send the pot signal into my PDPI card... - I'd love to increase the max lock. 180 degrees is to little!!! I'd like more like 300 degrees! Perhaps even making a multi turn wheel (more than 360 degrees). - I'd love to have a look at the circuitry, to see if it is possible to buy the required chips and make my own FF wheel!!! With a stronger and smoother motor with a higher ratio I will look into the matter, but not until I have finished my Pressure Sensitive Brake Pedal! I will report any progress on this on this NG, there should be a lot of persons interested in this. ---Asgeir---

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> I have finaly put up a site about modifying the Logitech Wingman Formula > Force with ball bearings. Here is the URL: > http://w1.111.telia.com/~u11103812/lwff.htm > And thanks to Dave Kickhafer for the help with proof reading! > -- > /M Lindqvist > Spamguard: Remove .ajabaja in e-mail

ECCI has a add on pressure sentitive brake switch for $69. I haven't seen any posts from anyone using it though. I was thinking about getting one for my homemade pedals. http://ecci.net/

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> Excellent article, well illustrated, in short: DA STUFF! :-) > I have noticed a bit of sloppiness in the plastic bearings of the Logitech > myself. I am pretty satisfied with it, but I suspect the plastic bearings > will wear over time, and swallow more and more of the subtle forces... > In fact I have several more ideas on how to improve the design of the

thing: > - I'd like the possibility to send the pot signal into my PDPI card... > - I'd love to increase the max lock. 180 degrees is to little!!! I'd like > more like 300 degrees! Perhaps even making a multi turn wheel (more than 360 > degrees). > - I'd love to have a look at the circuitry, to see if it is possible to buy > the required chips and make my own FF wheel!!! With a stronger and smoother > motor with a higher ratio > I will look into the matter, but not until I have finished my Pressure > Sensitive Brake Pedal! I will report any progress on this on this NG, there

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> should be a lot of persons interested in this. > ---Asgeir--- > > I have finaly put up a site about modifying the Logitech Wingman Formula > > Force with ball bearings. Here is the URL: > > http://w1.111.telia.com/~u11103812/lwff.htm > > And thanks to Dave Kickhafer for the help with proof reading! > > -- > > /M Lindqvist > > Spamguard: Remove .ajabaja in e-mail

180 degrees is not much and it can't bee increased more than 20-30 degrees. Turn the LWFF wheel more and the steel cable will pop off the shaft on the motor. A longer shaft on the motor might give a 10-20 degrees extra, but after that are the plastic pulleys on the limit. But you can always re-design the whole FF unit to get a multi turn wheel. ;) There is some very interesting ideas you have there! Especially the preasure sensitive brake pedal. I have been thinking about one myself, and I'm looking forward to read about your pedal! /M Lindqvist

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> > I have finaly put up a site about modifying the Logitech Wingman Formula > > Force with ball bearings. Here is the URL: > > http://w1.111.telia.com/~u11103812/lwff.htm > > And thanks to Dave Kickhafer for the help with proof reading! > > -- > > /M Lindqvist > > Spamguard: Remove .ajabaja in e-mail

Thanks for your nice words! Hopefully will I update the page tomorrow with a few more details. -- /M Lindqvist Spamguard: Remove .ajabaja in e-mail > Very interesting article, gonna try it this weekend! > It look very promising. > Thanks, > Andre > On Wed, 18 Aug 1999 08:38:03 +0200, "Bart Westra" > >Well I don't have a LWFF myself, but still want to say that this is one hell > >of an > >article. Great pictures and drawings. Very well done! > >Bart Westra > >> I have finaly put up a site about modifying the Logitech Wingman Formula > >> Force with ball bearings. Here is the URL: > >> http://w1.111.telia.com/~u11103812/lwff.htm > >> And thanks to Dave Kickhafer for the help with proof reading! > >> -- > >> /M Lindqvist > >> Spamguard: Remove .ajabaja in e-mail

>ECCI has a add on pressure sentitive brake switch for $69. I haven't seen >any posts from anyone using it though. I was thinking about getting one for >my homemade pedals. It's not an actual pressure transducer, it's a clever little linkage that simulates this with a standard pot. Won't help you if you wanted to use it on another pedal set, but I recommend it highly if you own an ECCI CDS4000. Don McCorkle Libertarian Motorsports

add me tho the list too. On Thu, 19 Aug 1999 12:50:06 +0200, "schmikli"

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>> All this looks great and I would love to upgrade my LWFF with these >> modifications. Unfortunately, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you are >> machining some custom steel sleeves? I can do the assembly/disassembly >> and the more minor modifications, but not the machining. >> So I have a proposition for you... How about creating some kind of kit >> that you can sell? I know it's probably not a fun idea, but you've done >> it before so the 2nd time should be easier. I'm willing to shell out a >good >> chunk of change. If these improvements do what you say, I'd even >> consider having a new wheel delivered to your door that you could >> "build" for me. What do ya think? >Me too. I have no skills to do what he did , but it would be a great thing >to have it done. >sandor

To email me remove the "u"s

Well, I dismantled the unit last night, had a good look at the PCB, and I jotted down the info that I could find on the PCB. Next step is to talk to Logitech and see if I can buy one of those, the mechanics of the wheel I will make myself. With ball bearings, a different motor (stronger and less "notchy"). I wonder if chains can be used instead of wires... Might be too much slack in those, but then I can make a chain tensioner... I removed those two plastic stops on the front of the metal mounting plate to increase the max lock, and this allowed the wheel to turn about 20 degrees more from lock to lock. The pressure sensitive pedal is great idea, I know that. ;-) And I have the means to be able to make one. I plan using a load cell from a cheap digital weight. I have to make a small circuit as well, and I might find trouble enabling the device to be used with any game port. I have to test a bit to do that. I'd love having a brake pedal with short travel and almost rock solid threshold, then pressure sensitive with no upper limit... hehe... Luckily I have made my own pedal unit with plenty of room for both the standard pot brakes AND at the same time a pressure sensitive pick-up. So experimenting can go on quite independant and simultaneously as the old traditioinal pot setup... It's all an the drawing board, need a few parts, I think that this kind of think would be interesting for more or less all serious sim racers around the world. ---Asgeir---

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> 180 degrees is not much and it can't bee increased more than 20-30 degrees. > Turn the LWFF wheel more and the steel cable will pop off the shaft on the > motor. A longer shaft on the motor might give a 10-20 degrees extra, but > after that are the plastic pulleys on the limit. > There is some very interesting ideas you have there! Especially the preasure > sensitive brake pedal. I have been thinking about one myself, and I'm > looking forward to read about your pedal! > /M Lindqvist

I was looking at setting up a digital steering control using an optical encoder with a digital potentiometer so you could use a standard gameport. I didn't get very far but you may want to look at these to links for digital potentiometers to connect to a load cell for a pressure sensitive brake pedal. If you get this working I would be very interested in doing it also. [link lost in import] [link lost in import] IMO if someone wanted to build their own FF steering wheel, the best approach would be to buy a production unit (I've seen some units at $69 US) and retofit the mechanics to your wheel. Building the circuit, developing software to control it and then writting a Windows game controller driver would just be too much to do. > Well, I dismantled the unit last night, had a good look at the PCB, and I jotted > down the info that I could find on the PCB. Next step is to talk to Logitech and > see if I can buy one of those, the mechanics of the wheel I will make myself. > With ball bearings, a different motor (stronger and less "notchy"). I wonder if > chains can be used instead of wires... Might be too much slack in those, but > then I can make a chain tensioner... > I removed those two plastic stops on the front of the metal mounting plate to > increase the max lock, and this allowed the wheel to turn about 20 degrees more > from lock to lock. > The pressure sensitive pedal is great idea, I know that. ;-) And I have the > means to be able to make one. I plan using a load cell from a cheap digital > weight. I have to make a small circuit as well, and I might find trouble > enabling the device to be used with any game port. I have to test a bit to do > that. > I'd love having a brake pedal with short travel and almost rock solid threshold, > then pressure sensitive with no upper limit... hehe... > Luckily I have made my own pedal unit with plenty of room for both the standard > pot brakes AND at the same time a pressure sensitive pick-up. So experimenting > can go on quite independant and simultaneously as the old traditioinal pot > setup... > It's all an the drawing board, need a few parts, I think that this kind of think > would be interesting for more or less all serious sim racers around the world. > ---Asgeir--- > > 180 degrees is not much and it can't bee increased more than 20-30 degrees. > > Turn the LWFF wheel more and the steel cable will pop off the shaft on the > > motor. A longer shaft on the motor might give a 10-20 degrees extra, but > > after that are the plastic pulleys on the limit. > > There is some very interesting ideas you have there! Especially the preasure > > sensitive brake pedal. I have been thinking about one myself, and I'm > > looking forward to read about your pedal! > > /M Lindqvist

On Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:23:39 +0200, asgeir nes?en Make sure to uncheck "autocalibration", since this function knocks the wheel to both sides quite hard. Jens <snip> <snip> --------------------------------------------- Remove "NOSPAM" before using my email-address

Yeah, I thought about that, but I don't think there was much damping in those hard plastic bushes anyway, so... But I might calibrate the wheel by hand from now on... I think I can take that extra work and get 20-30 more degrees... :-) ---Asgeir---

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> On Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:23:39 +0200, asgeir nes?en > Make sure to uncheck "autocalibration", since this function knocks the > wheel to both sides quite hard. > Jens > <snip> > >I removed those two plastic stops on the front of the metal mounting plate to > >increase the max lock, and this allowed the wheel to turn about 20 degrees more > >from lock to lock. > <snip> > --------------------------------------------- > Remove "NOSPAM" before using my email-address

This is what I do Jens On Tue, 24 Aug 1999 09:50:15 +0200, asgeir nes?en <snip>> --------------------------------------------- Remove "NOSPAM" before using my email-address