GP500 realistic?

I'm not a motorcyclist so I don't know how realistic this game is. But it seems I can't throw the bike with either excessive braking nor acceleration, the only way to crash is the leave the track or turn to hard. This doesn't seem right. Even SBK modeled the effects of too much braking/accel. I did turn auto-lean off and tried leaning the "wrong" way, still couldn't throw the bike. And I'm running on realistic physics. Is there another driver-aid option that I've missed? Joe McGinn ========================================== Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network [link lost in import: /***.com/] ==========================================

trust us. its realistic. my friend owns a few bikes, sport bikes has tested throwing around his weight. at a good speed, you can do a full lean and it will turn very little. Bike will only slip if your on the gas or break in a turn. Trust me the physics is very well done in gp500. DjFIL

Quoted text (17 lines)

> I'm not a motorcyclist so I don't know how realistic this game is. But > it seems I can't throw the bike with either excessive braking nor > acceleration, the only way to crash is the leave the track or turn to > hard. > This doesn't seem right. Even SBK modeled the effects of too much > braking/accel. > I did turn auto-lean off and tried leaning the "wrong" way, still > couldn't throw the bike. And I'm running on realistic physics. Is > there another driver-aid option that I've missed? > Joe McGinn > ========================================== > Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network > [link lost in import: /***.com/] > ==========================================

> trust us. its realistic. my friend owns a few bikes, sport bikes has > tested throwing around his weight. at a good speed, you can do a full > lean and it will turn very little. Bike will only slip if your on the gas > or break in a turn. Trust me the physics is very well done in gp500. It's not bad, but it does lack the kind of "feel" for grip we've come to know and love with GPL(and even Viper). In fact, the handling model reminds me a bit of GP2 in a way. There are canned-feeling aspects, but they feel pretty nicely canned. :-) It seems to run right up to a threshold and then hit various routines, but the threshold for both acceleration and braking grip under heavy lean are on the high side. The step-outs, headshakes and tankslappers are a touch cheesy, but they do happen more or less when you expect them to. At least they're not as scary as real ones! A BIT more gradual breakaway of the tires would help, as might some skid sounds when approaching the limit, since you have no tactile sensations like you would in real life. You don't slide GP bikes around much of course, or get a LOT of notice when they let go, but as it is now there's no feel at all for what's happening at the tires, IMHO. Since the primary challenge (and reward) of going fast is the fight for grip, that's a significant miss. That said, the visuals are lovely (C450/V3 - w/settings maxed)and do convey the feeling of*** it out on a (very)fast motorbike. It's bound to be tough to model the experience since the control routine is so different, but I did notice a few old bike-racing sensations perk up their long-dormant heads while playing the game. Can't say the sound has much to recommend it, though. First, the engine sound volume is way too low relative to the others. And real 500 GP bikes are *** beasts; the wind noise they make is enormous. These things sound like a bunch of 50cc peewees buzzing around. While you can hear other bikes around you generally, when one slides up and bumps against you, there's no louder engine noise, or thud, or.....anything. That should really be a "moment", but it's not. Perhaps that's an A3D or EAX-only thing? Still good fun though, and it's certainly a "sim". I never got around to trying SBK but this things blows every other bike game I've tried into oblivion. A welcome addition to the market. Now if they'll just tweak it around the edges a bit between now and October.:-) Cheers, Steve B.

Sorry Joe, But I already flipped it, dumped it, highsided it and lost the front on many occasions... you must not be pushing hard enough (or you're not in sim more, which I find hard to believe). Remember, a bike sticks like crazy glue (it's only got two wheels and they're in line) up until a certain point.... ;-)) Especially the bike's reactions as you're just about to fall are so good they make me feel as if I'd be kissing tarmac in a matter of seconds. Jan./GP500 is best bike game to date... no doubt. ------ >I'm not a motorcyclist so I don't know how realistic this game is. But ><snip>

Are you trying to say you can't throw the bike (i.e. maneuver the bike quckly) while getting on the brakes or throttle? I can tell you from first hand experience that bikes DO NOT like being braked while turning. It is the absolute worst thing you can do as the bike will attempt to stand back up. As for hard core throttling it, you should be able to accelerate while turning just fine. That's how you're supposed to do it. Not sure if that's what you were talking about, but hope it helps. I'm D/L the game right now (wow, what a sorry ass Fri night I'm having), so it'll take a bit 'till I try it myself.

Quoted text (17 lines)

>I'm not a motorcyclist so I don't know how realistic this game is. But >it seems I can't throw the bike with either excessive braking nor >acceleration, the only way to crash is the leave the track or turn to >hard. >This doesn't seem right. Even SBK modeled the effects of too much >braking/accel. >I did turn auto-lean off and tried leaning the "wrong" way, still >couldn't throw the bike. And I'm running on realistic physics. Is >there another driver-aid option that I've missed? >Joe McGinn >========================================== >Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network >[link lost in import: /***.com/] >==========================================

S. Trask 1989 FZR 600 ('97 motor) [link lost in import]

I have been riding sport bikes for almost 10 years now. some bikes I have had include ZX10, Ducati 750ss, and currently YZF 750. I am am very impressed with the game, I love it actually, But, how realistic is it? Lets break it down. Acceleration. It lacks the feel, the thrill, the rush of acceleration. In GPL you can almost feel the car squirming under you and drifting as you accelerate. I just don't sense the speed in GP500. In real life my bike would require a delicate clutch hand to balance the bike between wheel sin and wheelie. But all that is missing in GP500. And it's easier to get high sided on my YZF then it is in the game, I am guessing it should be the other way around. Braking. Feels like I am slowing down a car in the game. In real life When you grab those brakes and then try and turn, it is very difficult. Bikes just do not want to lean over when you are applying brakes. You try and get the real speed slowed down while still pointing straight and then as you ease up on brake you lean into turn. and once in the turn applying more brake will want to stand the bike back up. all has to do with the spinning mass of the front wheel I believe. For those that think they should lock are wrong. My YZF brakes never lock up(front that is)even on wet roads it is hard to get the front to lock. Back wheel will hover a foot in the air before the wheel locks up. and for those worried about rear brakes not have a separate controller. Rear brakes does nothing to slow down bake. All the weight is on the front. Many racers use the rear for trail braking in corners. They drag it while still on accelerator to help stable the back end. Not something to many of us can do anyway. I do believe the game lacks(still an awesome game though), But it is just a game, how can you ever replace seat of the pants feel in a game. -- Kevin Anderson ICQ # 6769389

Actually, if you watch a lot of gp racing, you'll notice that they slide the bikes around A LOT. They push the front pretty *** the way in, and hang out the rear on the way out. You may only notice it when they get out of shape, or do a fat slide, but all those really fast guys are sliding ALL the time. There just really smooth about it, so you don't really notice. That's how all that black *** gets laid down on the corners :)

As a BETA tester of the game I must make comment that I feel the *** of the physics in the DEMO does seem a bit toned down from the pre release versions I played with. Perhaps the developers are simply trying to get enough people doing laps instead of dismissing hte game in frustration. Perhaps the *** will be back in the released version and people can high side and flip to their hearts content! P.S. Altering the rake of the bike makes the *** return in a big way. The default settings in the demo have a rake of 23 degrees and a trail of 95mm. Reducing this to 21 degrees and the trail to around 80mm produces the expected "nervousness". In the demo you can't alter the engine power/torque curve. Playing with this, as you will be able to do in the retail version, can produce a monster with a narrow power bandwidth. *** acceleration is the result. Once again the engine setting for the demo is conservative. As for GP500 bikes and sliding. The ability to control a slide is the bigest asset a GP500 ride can posses. This is why many top GP500 riders use offf road riding as a training tool. Some of the GP500 developers actually spent time with Kenny Roberts Jnr at his Ranch learning the finer points of sliding.

Quoted text (39 lines)

> > trust us. its realistic. my friend owns a few bikes, sport bikes has > > tested throwing around his weight. at a good speed, you can do a full > > lean and it will turn very little. Bike will only slip if your on the gas > > or break in a turn. Trust me the physics is very well done in gp500. > It's not bad, but it does lack the kind of "feel" for grip we've come to > know and love with GPL(and even Viper). In fact, the handling model reminds > me a bit of GP2 in a way. There are canned-feeling aspects, but they feel > pretty nicely canned. :-) It seems to run right up to a threshold and then > hit various routines, but the threshold for both acceleration and braking > grip under heavy lean are on the high side. The step-outs, headshakes and > tankslappers are a touch cheesy, but they do happen more or less when you > expect them to. At least they're not as scary as real ones! A BIT more > gradual breakaway of the tires would help, as might some skid sounds when > approaching the limit, since you have no tactile sensations like you would > in real life. You don't slide GP bikes around much of course, or get a LOT > of notice when they let go, but as it is now there's no feel at all for > what's happening at the tires, IMHO. Since the primary challenge (and > reward) of going fast is the fight for grip, that's a significant miss. > That said, the visuals are lovely (C450/V3 - w/settings maxed)and do > convey the feeling of*** it out on a (very)fast motorbike. It's bound > to be tough to model the experience since the control routine is so > different, but I did notice a few old bike-racing sensations perk up their > long-dormant heads while playing the game. Can't say the sound has much to > recommend it, though. First, the engine sound volume is way too low > relative to the others. And real 500 GP bikes are *** beasts; the wind > noise they make is enormous. These things sound like a bunch of 50cc > peewees buzzing around. While you can hear other bikes around you > generally, when one slides up and bumps against you, there's no louder > engine noise, or thud, or.....anything. That should really be a "moment", > but it's not. Perhaps that's an A3D or EAX-only thing? > Still good fun though, and it's certainly a "sim". I never got around > to trying SBK but this things blows every other bike game I've tried into > oblivion. A welcome addition to the market. Now if they'll just tweak it > around the edges a bit between now and October.:-) > Cheers, > Steve B.

Agreed! Plus there's no way a simulator can simulate the adrenaline rush of a 180bhp bike in full acceleration. Hmmm ... there must be something wrong with my tires 'cause I lock up the front wheel with my ZX-11, no probs. You can't. Those of you read my Ring report will know that! :) Hena -- Best regards, Hena H?kk?nen Remove NOSPAM to email me!

Reason why you lock up that ZX11 is because it weighs as much as a car <G>. I never lock my front and I can't imagine those Gp bikes locking up to much. -- Kevin Anderson ICQ # 6769389 > > I have been riding sport bikes for almost 10 years now. some bikes I have > > had include ZX10, Ducati 750ss, and currently YZF 750. I am am very > > impressed with the game, I love it actually, But, how realistic is it? > > Lets break it down. > > Acceleration. It lacks the feel, the thrill, the rush of > > acceleration. In GPL you can almost feel the car squirming under you and > > drifting as you accelerate. I just don't sense the speed in GP500. In real > Agreed! Plus there's no way a simulator can simulate the adrenaline rush of > a 180bhp bike in full acceleration. > > spinning mass of the front wheel I believe. For those that think they > should > > lock are wrong. My YZF brakes never lock up(front that is)even on wet > roads > > it is hard to get the front to lock. Back wheel will hover a foot in the > Hmmm ... there must be something wrong with my tires 'cause I lock up the > front wheel with my ZX-11, no probs. > > I do believe the game lacks(still an awesome game though), But it is > > just a game, how can you ever replace seat of the pants feel in a game. > You can't. Those of you read my Ring report will know that! :) > Hena > -- > Best regards, > Hena H?kk?nen > Remove NOSPAM to email me!

>trust us. its realistic. my friend owns a few bikes, sport bikes has >tested throwing around his weight. at a good speed, you can do a full >lean and it will turn very little. Bike will only slip if your on the gas >or break in a turn. Trust me the physics is very well done in gp500. So you're saying that a bike of this power will not flip over you if you apply 100% full-on brakes at full speed? Joe McGinn ========================================== Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network [link lost in import: /***.com/] ==========================================

Are you saying you can slide the bikes around in GP 500, but not in the demo? Joe McGinn ========================================== Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network [link lost in import: /***.com/] ==========================================

>But I already flipped it, dumped it, highsided it and lost the front on many >occasions... you must not be pushing hard enough (or you're not in sim more, >which I find hard to believe). Well, I am in sim mode ... and I cannot throw this bike via acceleration or braking. Trust me, I'm not THAT good a rider. Joe McGinn ========================================== Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network [link lost in import: /***.com/] ==========================================

>Not sure if that's what you were talking about, >but hope it helps. I'm talking more about all-out braking. I was under the impression (perhgaps mistaken?) that one should not apply 100% brakes at top speed. Joe McGinn ========================================== Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network [link lost in import: /***.com/] ==========================================

> Acceleration. It lacks the feel, the thrill, the rush of >acceleration. In GPL you can almost feel the car squirming under you and >drifting as you accelerate. I just don't sense the speed in GP500. I'd noticed that too. SBK had a better sense of speed IMO, and SBK wasn't that great in the sense of speed/accel cvategory either. SBK had this effect (rear wheel rising under excessive braking) but I can't make the GP500 bikes do it. Joe McGinn ========================================== Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network [link lost in import: /***.com/] ==========================================

I was sliding them around in the demo -- Kevin Anderson ICQ # 6769389 > >As for GP500 bikes and sliding. The ability to control a slide is the bigest > >asset a GP500 ride can posses. This is why many top GP500 riders use offf road > >riding as a training tool. Some of the GP500 developers actually spent time with > >Kenny Roberts Jnr at his Ranch learning the finer points of sliding. > Are you saying you can slide the bikes around in GP 500, but not in > the demo? > Joe McGinn > ========================================== > Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network > [link lost in import: /***.com/] > ==========================================

>I'm talking more about all-out braking. I was under the impression >(perhgaps mistaken?) that one should not apply 100% brakes at top >speed. You are mistaken. Braking at speed is limited by tire traction, not by any chassis dynamics. Bikes don't 'flip over' when using all available traction for braking. HIH, Eric '84 RZ 350 '85 RZ 350 '85 Ninja 900 '89 GS 500 E '94 Katana 750

> I'm talking more about all-out braking. I was under the impression > (perhgaps mistaken?) that one should not apply 100% brakes at top > speed. True. Grabbing full brakes instantly at speed WILL dump you in RL. You won't flip, but you'll lose the front end and.........I don't want to think about it. :-) I haven't tried it yet, but I wonder what GP500 will do with separate front and rear brake inputs and slamming on just the front in a straight line. In RL, you munch it. A bit more gradual application will result in a nose wheelie once the weight transfers to the front end and the fork compresses. With such short wheelbases and high CG's, the weight transfer on bikes is enormous. The reverse of the front brake scenario is pretty much how power-on rear traction works too. Everything at once and you spin the tire. Give it time to transfer the weight and you're looking at the pretty clouds. Dangerous critters! Cheers, Steve B.

Yes. My reference to little sliding on bikes was versus cars, which anybody can do. The way the top GP guys can do repeatable two-wheel drifts on asphalt never ceases to amaze me. Sliding the rear into corners is easy, since it has basically NO weight left on it under hard braking. But***ing that front over and letting it go takes some serious skill, not to mention certain oversized glandular appendages. But what I feel is missing in the GP500 demo is any real sense for what's happening at the tires' contact patch when you're at the limit. You get the goofy red brake warning light onscreen and then the "imminent disaster" icon (my term :-)) next to it with a bit of squealy sound, but that's about it. When both reach full intensity, bang; down you go. It almost seems as if they knew there was no "feel" in the model so they threw those in as a substitute. I hope the retail version offers more here. Cheers, Steve B.

I can answer that. First off, I'm different buttons as my brakes. So using FULL front brakes at full speed doesn't cause a problem.. so long as you back right off the power.. keeping the throttle pushed forward doesn't help. Re the back brake... great fun. At the end of the main straight, you have to toggle it.. the rear breaks loose (as you'd expect) and starts to drift either left or right of you... if you don't release the back break quick enough, when you do.... highside. End result you are toggling the rear brake three, four times just to keep the rear in some sort of alignment. And as everybody else has some opinion as to the realism of the sim, I think it's pretty damn close. (Of course I haven't RACED a bike, but a bike has been my only form of transport for 5 years or so now and I watch a lot of races) The bike seems to do exactly what you would expect, having spent years listening to Race Commentaters explaining why this happens and why that happens etc. Is it perfect? Shit I dunno, I've never ridden a super light, super powerful bike, with no 'fear' of throwing it down the road knowing that there is a 'spare' machine in the garage for me if I do. My bike is 80hp short and 50kg heavier (and it's supposed to be pretty OK as a bike - VTR1000). What I do know is that it's FUN. AND when you stuff up a lap 9 out of 10 times :-( you can spend the rest of the lap trying to balance on your rear wheel.. and have a lot of success, unlike WSB. Gotta luv that manual lean control... Tob On Sat, 14 Aug 1999 16:42:22 -0400, "Steve Blankenship"

Quoted text (19 lines)

>> I'm talking more about all-out braking. I was under the impression >> (perhgaps mistaken?) that one should not apply 100% brakes at top >> speed. >True. Grabbing full brakes instantly at speed WILL dump you in RL. You >won't flip, but you'll lose the front end and.........I don't want to think >about it. :-) I haven't tried it yet, but I wonder what GP500 will do with >separate front and rear brake inputs and slamming on just the front in a >straight line. In RL, you munch it. A bit more gradual application will >result in a nose wheelie once the weight transfers to the front end and the >fork compresses. With such short wheelbases and high CG's, the weight >transfer on bikes is enormous. The reverse of the front brake scenario is >pretty much how power-on rear traction works too. Everything at once and >you spin the tire. Give it time to transfer the weight and you're looking >at the pretty clouds. Dangerous critters! >Cheers, >Steve B.

Well now I have; rather odd results below. With F&R brakes mapped to separate buttons(!!) on a Wingman Formula: 1. You CAN apply throttle and brakes simultaneously this way, though it won't allow it with separate axes on an analogue basis. 2. You cannot lock the front wheel on pavement when upright, but it will lift the rear off the ground. You can lock it in the grass, with the expected result. OOF! You can also lowside with too much front brake in a turn. 3. You can wheelie, hit the front brake while the wheel's up, drop the nose, and nothing bad happens. Still can't lock it. Hmmmm.... 4. If you slam on the front brake only with the throttle wide open, the bike will slow to a stop, doing a nose wheelie, and the rear wheel will come to a stop while it's still airborne(with throttle still pegged and no rear brake). Uh-oh..... 5. You can slide the rear using a separate input easily. However, it's canned. You CANNOT lock the rear and keep it locked without falling, even with the bike upright and pointed straight . It's fairly easy to do on a real bike, even from pretty high speed. In the game, the bike goes sideways and then down, regardless of input, and not always in the direction it should, given the lean. And if you do a straight-line nose wheelie with front brake only, then hit the rear brake while the back wheel's in the air, the rear end will kick sideways just like when it's sliding on the ground. Now THAT'S a new one..... :-( With F&R brakes mapped to brake pedal (combined axes): 1. No more sliding the rear into corners, or anywhere else, for that matter, even on the grass. It DOES seem to stop a touch quicker than using front-only, so there must be some sort of preset brake bias when both are mapped to the same input. I'd wondered about that, since I'd guess a lot of players will have them mapped that way. It must be about 90/10 or so. An adjustable bias, perhaps via an INI file setting, would be a nice addition for the retail version, and would help you get a bit more use from the rear brake with combined inputs. There was actually a real aftermarket mechanical setup like that some years back with adjustable bias via the linkage, operated from the foot pedal. A couple of final, brake-free bits: 1. I've noticed a sudden slowdown in my framerate at times, usually mid-race. It starts out butter-smooth(C450/V3), then at some point it'll suddenly drop, remaining slow for the rest of the race. The game doesn't drop out of real time(good!), doesn't appear to be paging to my HD, and it seems I have to quit the game and restart to cure it. Anyone else seen this? 2. Using the helmet-cam (view 4), the perspective has too much lean in the corners. The viewpoint moves side-to-side with the rider as it should, but while he keeps his head pretty level(watch him in view 2), YOUR view is way too tilted. Dialing that back a bit in the retail would help. Oh well, enough of this silly knob-twisting; I need a beer. Still a fun demo, but getting less sim-ish by the minute. Cheers, Steve B.

Ah - you're not using those 1971 Avon Slipmasters are you?:-) - Michael ex-GSX1100R

Actually i did a major High Side :) So it works

Quoted text (13 lines)

> >trust us. its realistic. my friend owns a few bikes, sport bikes has > >tested throwing around his weight. at a good speed, you can do a full > >lean and it will turn very little. Bike will only slip if your on the gas > >or break in a turn. Trust me the physics is very well done in gp500. > So you're saying that a bike of this power will not flip over you if > you apply 100% full-on brakes at full speed? > Joe McGinn > ========================================== > Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network > [link lost in import: /***.com/] > ==========================================

webmaster.vcf < 1K Download

it will it happened in 97 or 98 in the Spanish GP in Montmelo ... it was a close battle in 250cc , and a British guy (cant remember who was) misjudged a slipstream in the main straight and collided with his right hand (brake) with the back of the guy in front, the bike flipped and he went over his bike ... no injuries, but a frightening accident McKafre De La Rosa Eric Smith escribi en mensaje ... >>I'm talking more about all-out braking. I was under the impression >>(perhgaps mistaken?) that one should not apply 100% brakes at top >>speed. >You are mistaken. Braking at speed is limited by tire traction, not by any >chassis dynamics. Bikes don't 'flip over' when using all available traction >for braking.

This was Jeremy McWilliams. Yes, this was the most bizarre accident I have ever seen. And he walked away......... Harald

>it was a close battle in 250cc , and a British guy (cant remember who was) >misjudged a slipstream in the main straight and collided with his right hand >(brake) with the back of the guy in front, the bike flipped and he went over >his bike ... no injuries, but a frightening accident Sounds like this was partly due to the collision and was not purely a braking accident. Trust me on this one. When braking at speed, maximum braking power is limited by tire traction, not by the bike "flipping over". People try to use that same argument when explaining why they *don't* use the front brake. The one with 75-90% of the stopping power. Bah. Eric

Eric Smith heeft geschreven in bericht ... No. Last year I have seen this accident app. 20 times on Eurosport and there was even McWilliams himself explaining what had happened: He came out of the slipstream but didn't go wide enough and hit with his brake-lever the back of the bike he wanted to pass. The rear end of the bike just came up. Now I know you point from using the front brake, because I know that Supersport 600 rider Wilco Zeelenberg doesn't use the rear brake at all. He usually saws it to pieces to reduce weight. But McWilliams bike flipped over purely of hitting the brake lever. Just a freak accident. Cheers, Harald

Quoted text (10 lines)

>Sounds like this was partly due to the collision and was not purely a braking >accident. >Trust me on this one. When braking at speed, maximum braking power is limited >by tire traction, not by the bike "flipping over". >People try to use that same argument when explaining why they *don't* use the >front brake. The one with 75-90% of the stopping power. Bah. >Eric

Sorry Eric I have to disagree. On a street bike with street *** yes, on a 250 or 500 gp bike keeping your rear wheel down IS the limiting factor. Don Scurlock Vancouver,B.C.

that is also one thing i noticed. even if you switch it so its all front break your using. but you can do a nice standing wheel spin. but there is the lack of excessive smoke. its still a good game. but lots of the crashing bits are missing. and i have noticed that. DjFIL

Quoted text (20 lines)

> > Acceleration. It lacks the feel, the thrill, the rush of > >acceleration. In GPL you can almost feel the car squirming under you and > >drifting as you accelerate. I just don't sense the speed in GP500. > I'd noticed that too. SBK had a better sense of speed IMO, and SBK > wasn't that great in the sense of speed/accel cvategory either. > >Back wheel will hover a foot in the > >air before the wheel locks up. and for those worried about rear brakes not > >have a separate controller. Rear brakes does nothing to slow down bake. All > >the weight is on the front. > SBK had this effect (rear wheel rising under excessive braking) but I > can't make the GP500 bikes do it. > Joe McGinn > ========================================== > Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network > [link lost in import: /***.com/] > ==========================================

Quoted text (7 lines)

> >it was a close battle in 250cc , and a British guy (cant remember who was) > >misjudged a slipstream in the main straight and collided with his right hand > >(brake) with the back of the guy in front, the bike flipped and he went over > >his bike ... no injuries, but a frightening accident > Sounds like this was partly due to the collision and was not purely a braking > accident.

I've seen bikes flipping over from pure braking. braking is limited by a number of things. the biggest factor is probably fear. -- Gunnar -- '98 Super Primerbird '92 G00F2 #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo: 2 de vakreste ord p? jord: saldo i Deres fav?r

says... Certainly is, for an upright bike on a dry track with slick tires. You can lock the front though as you lean the bike in to the turn, and exchange braking traction for lateral traction. If you trail brake too much even a 500's front slick can be locked - usually with painful consequences. - Michael