LWFF only 180 degrees ???

Still figuring out which FF wheel to buy, I saw a LWFF in a store and tried how it feels (unplugged). The wheel feels very good and smooth, but I noticed that it has only 180 degrees travel. I was just wondering, because somewhere (maybe even in this NG) I read, that is has 270 degs. I want 270 degs, because I want to turn off that changing steering ratio thingy in GPL and with 1:10 (or below) steering ratio on a 180 degs. wheel steering gets too twitchy. The ActLabs RS FF is said to have 270 degs (at least at the ActLabs page), is this true? Unfortunately I have not found a store in Vienna yet, which sells the ActLabs. Thanx! Peter Vienna, Austria

The VROC site has some info on how to modify the LWFF for 270 degs. Personally, I like the 180 as opposed to the 270.

The LWFF cannot be modified for 270 degrees without a machine shop! The non-FF Wingman is relatively easy. I did increase the rotation of my LWFF slightly, by putting a smaller diameter bump stop in the wheel. I now have 200 degrees vs. just over 180 stock. I too would like 270 degrees, but I don't think it can be done without a lot of trouble with the LWFF. Kevin Caldwell Calgary, Canada > >The VROC site has some info on how to modify the LWFF for 270 degs. > >Personally, I like the 180 as opposed to the 270. > I thought that was only for the non-FF version, though it's been a while > since I saw it. Doing so for the FF version would be quite an undertaking.

As someone who has dismantled his LWFF down to bare pieces, I didn't see any easy way to modify the wheel for 270 degs, in fact I think the cable would pop off the motor and gears with that large a range of motion. I came to the LWFF from 4 years of a T2, and at first the smaller range of motion did anoy me, but I noticed I got used to it within the first week or two and now the range is not even noticeable at least for me it hasn't been a problem. Seeyas on the track. --John (Joao) Silva >>The VROC site has some info on how to modify the LWFF for 270 degs. >>Personally, I like the 180 as opposed to the 270. >I thought that was only for the non-FF version, though it's been a while >since I saw it. Doing so for the FF version would be quite an undertaking.

Yeah, you may be right. :) > >The VROC site has some info on how to modify the LWFF for 270 degs. > >Personally, I like the 180 as opposed to the 270. > I thought that was only for the non-FF version, though it's been a while > since I saw it. Doing so for the FF version would be quite an undertaking.

If you get the Logitech FF and drive GPL a little you will immediately notice that the fact that the wheel turns 180 degrees is *NOT* your main problem :-) IMHO it is not even an issue. -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com >Still figuring out which FF wheel to buy, I saw a LWFF in a store and tried >how it feels (unplugged). The wheel feels very good and smooth, but I >noticed that it has only 180 degrees travel. I was just wondering, because >somewhere (maybe even in this NG) I read, that is has 270 degs. >I want 270 degs, because I want to turn off that changing steering ratio >thingy in GPL and with 1:10 (or below) steering ratio on a 180 degs. wheel >steering gets too twitchy. >The ActLabs RS FF is said to have 270 degs (at least at the ActLabs page), >is this true? Unfortunately I have not found a store in Vienna yet, which >sells the ActLabs. >Thanx! >Peter >Vienna, Austria

Thanx for the input, fellows ! After reading your posts and regarding how many people seem to be happy with their LWFF in GPL, I dropped my wish for 270 degs. and bought the LWFF. The 180 degs. seem to be no problem, but I must find good settings for the thingy now (There were some posts about that recently, no ?) Testing and drooling :-) Peter Vienna, Austria

Hi Peter, first thing you do when you get your LWFF is make sure you update your wingman drivers, I think there is a way to do this from within the Wingman Profiler, but if not get them from www.logitech.com First you will want to try the default GPL Force Feedback settings so you can feel how strong the forces can be, but make sure you have turned off "Enable Centering Sping" in the Game Controler Logitech settings, as having this on seriously makes the Force Feedback in GPL feel mushy. Once your arms get tired of fighting all that force of the default GPL 1.1 FF setings here's the settings I'm using for my LWFF, this provides enough force to know what the car is doing without forcing me to fight the wheel, yet allows you to still feel all the subtle details such as a tire slightly touching the grass or bump a curb, it has really worked well for me. Note these settings are to be used in conjuction with the LWFF settings in Game Controller of: Overall Effects Strength: 100% Spring Effect Strength: 100% Damper Effect Strength: 100% Enable Centering Spring: OFF <---- very important for GPL feel core.ini settings: [ Joy ] allow_force_feedback = 1 ; Use FF if device has it force_feedback_damping = 60.000000 ; force feedbackdamping coefficient force_feedback_latency = 0.025000 ; force feedback latency (secs) max_steering_torque = 155.000000 ; steering torque in N*in giving Hope that helps, again those settings are so that I don't have to fight the wheel all race long, yet I can feel the force get progressively stronger as the tire loads up, then the force will lighten up as the tire loses traction. Seeyas on the track. --John (Joao) Silva

Quoted text (9 lines)

>Thanx for the input, fellows ! >After reading your posts and regarding how many people seem to be happy with >their LWFF in GPL, I dropped my wish for 270 degs. and bought the LWFF. The >180 degs. seem to be no problem, but I must find good settings for the >thingy now (There were some posts about that recently, no ?) >Testing and drooling :-) >Peter >Vienna, Austria

Thanx for the tips, John! Reading *every* FF related post on RAS in the recent weeks, I had no problem setting up the LWFF to work in GPL :-) I run it with my old TM F1 pedals on the game port and it works fine. Your settings feel good, but with max_steering_torque set to 155 you get stronger forces than with the default 225, I suppose you know that ? (Your post suggested you lowered the force compared to the default to get more feel). Did you ever try to boost the effect strength in the LWFF settings to 150% and leave the core.ini settings at 225? I'll try that now. The higher force seems to feel better for me (although I thought it to be the other way round before trying your settings). I'd had a question about the latency setting: How do you know, if the latency is set right? I feel a slight difference when using different latency, but I just can't tell if the force is 'out of phase' or not. Yes..., I just came to 0.3 near my non-FF PB at the Glen while testing your settings, so FF doesn't seem to slow me down ... :-). Thanx Peter Vienna, Austria

Glad you got your LWFF working well and fast! Hmm, I guess the max_steering_torque set to 155 force feels less to me because at the time I was using the default 225 I used to have my LWFF settings at 125%, once I reduced those down to 100% and tried played with the amount of torque 155 felt the best combination of force and detail :-) Actually that's what you end up doing with all these settings including the latency, you get ideas from what other people are using or try your own until you somehow find something that feels right to you :-) Now take that FF car out for a spin at Monaco and notice how much easier the chicane is once you know how the car is behaving. Gotta love it. Seeyas on the track. --John (Joao) Silva

Quoted text (69 lines)

>Thanx for the tips, John! >Reading *every* FF related post on RAS in the recent weeks, I had no problem >setting up the LWFF to work in GPL :-) I run it with my old TM F1 pedals on >the game port and it works fine. Your settings feel good, but with >max_steering_torque set to 155 you get stronger forces than with the default >225, I suppose you know that ? (Your post suggested you lowered the force >compared to the default to get more feel). Did you ever try to boost the >effect strength in the LWFF settings to 150% and leave the core.ini settings >at 225? I'll try that now. The higher force seems to feel better for me >(although I thought it to be the other way round before trying your >settings). >I'd had a question about the latency setting: How do you know, if the >latency is set right? I feel a slight difference when using different >latency, but I just can't tell if the force is 'out of phase' or not. >Yes..., I just came to 0.3 near my non-FF PB at the Glen while testing your >settings, so FF doesn't seem to slow me down ... :-). >Thanx >Peter >Vienna, Austria >> Hi Peter, first thing you do when you get your LWFF is make sure you >update >> your wingman drivers, I think there is a way to do this from within the >> Wingman Profiler, but if not get them from www.logitech.com >> First you will want to try the default GPL Force Feedback settings so you >can >> feel how strong the forces can be, but make sure you have turned off >> "Enable Centering Sping" in the Game Controler Logitech settings, as >having >> this on seriously makes the Force Feedback in GPL feel mushy. >> Once your arms get tired of fighting all that force of the default GPL 1.1 >> FF setings here's the settings I'm using for my LWFF, this provides enough >> force to know what the car is doing without forcing me to fight the wheel, >> yet allows you to still feel all the subtle details such as a tire >slightly >> touching the grass or bump a curb, it has really worked well for me. >> Note these settings are to be used in conjuction with the LWFF settings >> in Game Controller of: >> Overall Effects Strength: 100% >> Spring Effect Strength: 100% >> Damper Effect Strength: 100% >> Enable Centering Spring: OFF <---- very important for GPL feel >> core.ini settings: >> [ Joy ] >> allow_force_feedback = 1 ; Use FF if device has it >> force_feedback_damping = 60.000000 ; force feedbackdamping >coefficient >> force_feedback_latency = 0.025000 ; force feedback latency (secs) >> max_steering_torque = 155.000000 ; steering torque in N*in giving >> Hope that helps, again those settings are so that I don't have to fight >> the wheel all race long, yet I can feel the force get progressively >stronger >> as the tire loads up, then the force will lighten up as the tire loses >> traction. >> Seeyas on the track. >> --John (Joao) Silva