GPL: How I knocked .6 secs off my best time at Monza

When I started I was going 1:39's at monza in the Ferrari. Then I got Alisons Ferrari Monza setup and was down to 1:35's & 1:36's. Well I took a week from driving GPL, read the manual and started again with a fresh mindset. Last night I tried again. I ran through 2 sessions of 9 laps (5 Gal of fuel) without spinning once. And my best time was 1:34.79. So... I am sure with practice I will be on the right track and the game is much fun. Last night I was starting to feel the "force" (using the throttle and very little brake to adjust my trajectory in the turns). That is a very cool sensation. Anyway thanks to everyone who helped me out. I actually had allot of fun last night doing consistent laps with no spin outs. I also find that the Logitech FF USB pedals are *VERY* accurate for braking, but you *MUST* separate the brake and throttle axis. -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

Hey Greg - I'm right there with you...my story is almost identical: Ferrari, Alison's setup, finally read Steve's 4-wheel Drift, and now I'm down in the 1:33's (but not consistent yet). My biggest problem is braking. I watch the AI go into corners (especially down the back stretch into Parabolica), and they down-shift, but their tires never lock up. Mine ALWAYS lock up, even with hard-soft-soft-soft pump action. I've played with the brake-bias, but still can't find a good compromise. Am I chasing an elusive dream, or is it possible to brake without locking up? And I agree - FF wheel with seperate brake/gas is the key. Peace, John Wehman

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>When I started I was going 1:39's at monza in the Ferrari. >Then I got Alisons Ferrari Monza setup and was down to >1:35's & 1:36's. Well I took a week from driving GPL, read >the manual and started again with a fresh mindset. >Last night I tried again. I ran through 2 sessions of 9 laps >(5 Gal of fuel) without spinning once. And my best time >was 1:34.79. So... I am sure with practice I will be on the >right track and the game is much fun. >Last night I was starting to feel the "force" (using the throttle >and very little brake to adjust my trajectory in the turns). That >is a very cool sensation. >Anyway thanks to everyone who helped me out. I actually >had allot of fun last night doing consistent laps with no spin >outs. >I also find that the Logitech FF USB pedals are *VERY* >accurate for braking, but you *MUST* separate the brake >and throttle axis.

John, Have you made the famous "squash ball" modification to your brake pedal? If not, you won't believe how much it can help. E-mail me if you want detail (it's not very complex ;-) Regards Kurt My biggest problem is braking. I watch the >AI go into corners (especially down the back stretch into Parabolica), and >they down-shift, but their tires never lock up. Mine ALWAYS lock up, even >with hard-soft-soft-soft pump action. I've played with the brake-bias, but >still can't find a good compromise. Am I chasing an elusive dream, or is it

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>possible to brake without locking up? >And I agree - FF wheel with seperate brake/gas is the key. >Peace, >John Wehman >>When I started I was going 1:39's at monza in the Ferrari. >>Then I got Alisons Ferrari Monza setup and was down to >>1:35's & 1:36's. Well I took a week from driving GPL, read >>the manual and started again with a fresh mindset. >>Last night I tried again. I ran through 2 sessions of 9 laps >>(5 Gal of fuel) without spinning once. And my best time >>was 1:34.79. So... I am sure with practice I will be on the >>right track and the game is much fun. >>Last night I was starting to feel the "force" (using the throttle >>and very little brake to adjust my trajectory in the turns). That >>is a very cool sensation. >>Anyway thanks to everyone who helped me out. I actually >>had allot of fun last night doing consistent laps with no spin >>outs. >>I also find that the Logitech FF USB pedals are *VERY* >>accurate for braking, but you *MUST* separate the brake >>and throttle axis.

Does the squash ball effect work for all brake pedals? I have a TM F1 wheel... Rob Swindells 3rd equal in Goldline Bearing FFord Championship (18 Points); 9 points behind Championship Leader (as of round 4 of 6) "If you're a great driver, you will get through. It's not harder than any time before." ~Martin Brundle

How do I split the brake and throttle axis? I heard a lot about that, but i can't seem to figure it out! Peter

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> John, > Have you made the famous "squash ball" modification to your brake pedal? If > not, you won't believe how much it can help. > E-mail me if you want detail (it's not very complex ;-) > Regards > Kurt > My biggest problem is braking. I watch the > >AI go into corners (especially down the back stretch into Parabolica), and > >they down-shift, but their tires never lock up. Mine ALWAYS lock up, even > >with hard-soft-soft-soft pump action. I've played with the brake-bias, but > >still can't find a good compromise. Am I chasing an elusive dream, or is > it > >possible to brake without locking up? > >And I agree - FF wheel with seperate brake/gas is the key. > >Peace, > >John Wehman > >>When I started I was going 1:39's at monza in the Ferrari. > >>Then I got Alisons Ferrari Monza setup and was down to > >>1:35's & 1:36's. Well I took a week from driving GPL, read > >>the manual and started again with a fresh mindset. > >>Last night I tried again. I ran through 2 sessions of 9 laps > >>(5 Gal of fuel) without spinning once. And my best time > >>was 1:34.79. So... I am sure with practice I will be on the > >>right track and the game is much fun. > >>Last night I was starting to feel the "force" (using the throttle > >>and very little brake to adjust my trajectory in the turns). That > >>is a very cool sensation. > >>Anyway thanks to everyone who helped me out. I actually > >>had allot of fun last night doing consistent laps with no spin > >>outs. > >>I also find that the Logitech FF USB pedals are *VERY* > >>accurate for braking, but you *MUST* separate the brake > >>and throttle axis.

Which wheel do you have? Some wheels split the pedal axis with a switch, others change it in the software. don [|]-(_)-[|] >How do I split the brake and throttle axis? I heard a lot about that, but i >can't seem to figure it out! >Peter

Seems to be pretty common, I'm 32:73, very inconsistent, and getting FEEL for my pedals is my biggest problem. Putting a lot of mental concentration on what I'm feeling in my feet, and focusing on being very light on the pedals helps. I mentioned this a couple years ago but it's worth repeating. Rory Brown the Canadian distributor for the Hyper Stimulator driving system www.directcomputers.com let me try out a Hyper Stimulator at his home. As neat as the whole setup was the most striking thing was how much more brake pedal feel there was. I'm not sure but it felt like instead of using a pot to measure brake input, which varies with the distance the pedal travels, it seemed like it used a strain gauge, which can more accurately measure the PRESSURE on the brake pedal. This gives a huge improvement in feel. I'm going to look into converting my ECCI brake pedal from pot to strain gauge. Anybody have any experience with doing this ? in article

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>Hey Greg - I'm right there with you...my story is almost identical: Ferrari, >Alison's setup, finally read Steve's 4-wheel Drift, and now I'm down in the >1:33's (but not consistent yet). My biggest problem is braking. I watch the >AI go into corners (especially down the back stretch into Parabolica), and >they down-shift, but their tires never lock up. Mine ALWAYS lock up, even >with hard-soft-soft-soft pump action. I've played with the brake-bias, but >still can't find a good compromise. Am I chasing an elusive dream, or is it >possible to brake without locking up? >And I agree - FF wheel with seperate brake/gas is the key. >Peace, >John Wehman >>When I started I was going 1:39's at monza in the Ferrari. >>Then I got Alisons Ferrari Monza setup and was down to >>1:35's & 1:36's. Well I took a week from driving GPL, read >>the manual and started again with a fresh mindset. >>Last night I tried again. I ran through 2 sessions of 9 laps >>(5 Gal of fuel) without spinning once. And my best time >>was 1:34.79. So... I am sure with practice I will be on the >>right track and the game is much fun. >>Last night I was starting to feel the "force" (using the throttle >>and very little brake to adjust my trajectory in the turns). That >>is a very cool sensation. >>Anyway thanks to everyone who helped me out. I actually >>had allot of fun last night doing consistent laps with no spin >>outs. >>I also find that the Logitech FF USB pedals are *VERY* >>accurate for braking, but you *MUST* separate the brake >>and throttle axis.

Don Scurlock Vancouver,B.C.

I have a Thrustmaster grandprix 1

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> Which wheel do you have? Some wheels split the pedal axis with a switch, > others change it in the software. > don > [|]-(_)-[|] > >How do I split the brake and throttle axis? I heard a lot about that, but i > >can't seem to figure it out! > >Peter

>Which wheel do you have? Some wheels split the pedal axis with a switch, >others change it in the software. And for some wheels (TM T2), you have to build an adaptor and add some cables. If you have to do this, do a dejanews search on "split axis" and look for a longer posting that had a recipe and some nice ASCII drawings for this procedure. >>How do I split the brake and throttle axis? I heard a lot about that, but i >>can't seem to figure it out! >>Peter -- Wolfgang Preiss \ E-mail copies of replies to this posting are welcome.

Hi John, It can be done. Here's my take on braking, FWIW. The goal, as I see it, is to match the rate at which you apply the brake to the speed at which you are approaching the corner so that you slow as quickly as possible without locking up. This allows you to carry optimum speed into, and hopefully through and out of, the corner while retaining control. If you rocket down the backstretch heading into Parabolica, wait until the last second, and hammer the brakes, chances are good you'll lock up. Try to pick a point where you can begin to brake, LIGHTLY at first, and from there gradually increase braking until you're into the corner. This gives you much finer control over the process of slowing the car down. Start applying light braking when you reach the dark part of the track, then increase braking (while downshifting) so that the pedal is finally on or near the floor just as you start turning into the corner. This is a process that requires a lot of developement and practice, and is affected by many factors including initial speed, braking point, whether you're trying to outbrake someone, etc. etc. I have nowhere near perfected it myself. I guess my point is that in my experience, there are very few corners where you have to floor the brake pedal all at once. I use an ACT wheel with my old T2 pedals. With the Ferrari on the (GPL1.1) default setup and enough gas for 11 laps, my best lap time is 129.95 and I turn consistant 131's without ever locking the brakes. Hope this all makes some sense. LOL. Zog

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> Hey Greg - I'm right there with you...my story is almost identical: Ferrari, > Alison's setup, finally read Steve's 4-wheel Drift, and now I'm down in the > 1:33's (but not consistent yet). My biggest problem is braking. I watch the > AI go into corners (especially down the back stretch into Parabolica), and > they down-shift, but their tires never lock up. Mine ALWAYS lock up, even > with hard-soft-soft-soft pump action. I've played with the brake-bias, but > still can't find a good compromise. Am I chasing an elusive dream, or is it > possible to brake without locking up? > And I agree - FF wheel with seperate brake/gas is the key. > Peace, > John Wehman > >When I started I was going 1:39's at monza in the Ferrari. > >Then I got Alisons Ferrari Monza setup and was down to > >1:35's & 1:36's. Well I took a week from driving GPL, read > >the manual and started again with a fresh mindset. > >Last night I tried again. I ran through 2 sessions of 9 laps > >(5 Gal of fuel) without spinning once. And my best time > >was 1:34.79. So... I am sure with practice I will be on the > >right track and the game is much fun. > >Last night I was starting to feel the "force" (using the throttle > >and very little brake to adjust my trajectory in the turns). That > >is a very cool sensation. > >Anyway thanks to everyone who helped me out. I actually > >had allot of fun last night doing consistent laps with no spin > >outs. > >I also find that the Logitech FF USB pedals are *VERY* > >accurate for braking, but you *MUST* separate the brake > >and throttle axis.

-- Don't let the bastards grind you down. Doug Schneider Bedford, Nova Scotia Canada

I'm afraid you cannot split the break/throttle axis with the GP1, however you can add a set of CH pedals which will allow you to use a split or combined axis, and as a bonus, the paddles on the wheel can be used as shifters. don [|]-(_)-[|]

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>I have a Thrustmaster grandprix 1 >> Which wheel do you have? Some wheels split the pedal axis with a switch, >> others change it in the software. >> don >> [|]-(_)-[|] >> >How do I split the brake and throttle axis? I heard a lot about that,

but i >> >can't seem to figure it out! >> >Peter

I always try to find the point, where the tyres start to squeal as quick as possible. Takes of course some experience with your pedals and setup. Then I try to hold that point and I also have the impression that you can increase the brake pressure a little bit while braking. Some GPL gurus suggest it is better to hit the brakes full first and then go back to the point where it starts to squeal, but when I try this I lock up the tires in most cases. I find my 'point' easier from zero breaking than from fully breaking. My breaking point for the parabolica is slightly before the big ad sign to the left, which faces away from you and I always try to carry a little bit of braking into the corner. I have also found that it is very essential to be on the throttle *before* you stop breaking and make a smooth transition between brake and throttle. Even if you are too quick for the corner (due to too late braking or locking the tires) you have to be on the throttle when turning in (which is not the natural reaction) to preserve a chance of making it through the turn somehow, otherwise you will spin for certain. My PB in Monza is a 1:29:62 with Ricardo Nunnini's Lotus set at 57% brake balance and I can do low 1:30's quite consistently. My problem is not the parabolica, but to do Curva Grande *and* Lesmo1 *and* Lesmo2 quick (I've done them quick all, but unfortunately not in the same lap - otherwise I think I would be in the 1:28's) Just my thoughts on braking. Peter Vienna, Austria

You should try to keep some balance in the car while braking so 'slamming' the brakes is never a good idea. Increase the pedal pressure rapidly but keep an eye on your front wheels if they almost stop turning you have to lighten up on the brakes. Make sure you don't lock them because you'll have to lighten the brake pedal pressure a lot more then just to get the wheel back rolling again. The worst thing you can do is lock up your rear wheel tires it takes a long time to get them rolling and when you get them rolling you'll get a shock caused by the engine having to come up in the revs from nearly dying.

>I'm going to look into converting my ECCI brake pedal from pot to strain gauge. >Anybody have any experience with doing this ? ECCI offers an upgrade to the 4000 which gives this type of feel. It doesn't actually use a strain gauge, but a tricky bit of linkage to achive the same effect. If I recall correctly, it was $70 and took about two hours to install. I recommend it highly. Don McCorkle Libertarian Motorsports

I thought it was only for the TM wheel. -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

I found that if you apply about 1/3 -1/2 brake travel it will not lock up; but brake properly. Anyway what am I telling you this stuff for? You are faster than I am :-) -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

With my Logitech FF, there is a checkbox in the wheel control panel properties. -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com >How do I split the brake and throttle axis? I heard a lot about that, but i >can't seem to figure it out! >Peter >> John, >> Have you made the famous "squash ball" modification to your brake pedal? If >> not, you won't believe how much it can help. >> E-mail me if you want detail (it's not very complex ;-) >> Regards >> Kurt >> My biggest problem is braking. I watch the >> >AI go into corners (especially down the back stretch into Parabolica), and >> >they down-shift, but their tires never lock up. Mine ALWAYS lock up, even >> >with hard-soft-soft-soft pump action. I've played with the brake-bias, but >> >still can't find a good compromise. Am I chasing an elusive dream, or is >> it >> >possible to brake without locking up? >> >And I agree - FF wheel with seperate brake/gas is the key. >> >Peace, >> >John Wehman >> >>When I started I was going 1:39's at monza in the Ferrari. >> >>Then I got Alisons Ferrari Monza setup and was down to >> >>1:35's & 1:36's. Well I took a week from driving GPL, read >> >>the manual and started again with a fresh mindset. >> >>Last night I tried again. I ran through 2 sessions of 9 laps >> >>(5 Gal of fuel) without spinning once. And my best time >> >>was 1:34.79. So... I am sure with practice I will be on the >> >>right track and the game is much fun. >> >>Last night I was starting to feel the "force" (using the throttle >> >>and very little brake to adjust my trajectory in the turns). That >> >>is a very cool sensation. >> >>Anyway thanks to everyone who helped me out. I actually >> >>had allot of fun last night doing consistent laps with no spin >> >>outs. >> >>I also find that the Logitech FF USB pedals are *VERY* >> >>accurate for braking, but you *MUST* separate the brake >> >>and throttle axis.

Squash ball modification? Could someone tell more about this one... -Harri > John, > Have you made the famous "squash ball" modification to your brake pedal? If

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> not, you won't believe how much it can help. > E-mail me if you want detail (it's not very complex ;-) > Regards > Kurt > My biggest problem is braking. I watch the > >AI go into corners (especially down the back stretch into Parabolica),

and > >they down-shift, but their tires never lock up. Mine ALWAYS lock up, even > >with hard-soft-soft-soft pump action. I've played with the brake-bias, but

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> >still can't find a good compromise. Am I chasing an elusive dream, or is > it > >possible to brake without locking up? > >And I agree - FF wheel with seperate brake/gas is the key. > >Peace, > >John Wehman > >>When I started I was going 1:39's at monza in the Ferrari. > >>Then I got Alisons Ferrari Monza setup and was down to > >>1:35's & 1:36's. Well I took a week from driving GPL, read > >>the manual and started again with a fresh mindset. > >>Last night I tried again. I ran through 2 sessions of 9 laps > >>(5 Gal of fuel) without spinning once. And my best time > >>was 1:34.79. So... I am sure with practice I will be on the > >>right track and the game is much fun. > >>Last night I was starting to feel the "force" (using the throttle > >>and very little brake to adjust my trajectory in the turns). That > >>is a very cool sensation. > >>Anyway thanks to everyone who helped me out. I actually > >>had allot of fun last night doing consistent laps with no spin > >>outs. > >>I also find that the Logitech FF USB pedals are *VERY* > >>accurate for braking, but you *MUST* separate the brake > >>and throttle axis.

You can do better! Yesterday I was driving at Monaco and got little frustrated so I tried the first time to set damage level to none. Then I drove bouncing off the walls like crazy. My best time was 1.26.xx and I propably could have beaten the world record, which I think is 1.24.xx, but I got bored. I made almost 10 seconds improvement from my previous times! Of course, after this "experiment", I restored my original player.ini file. >When I started I was going 1:39's at monza in the Ferrari.

Oops! You were talking about Monza - not Monaco. >You can do better! Yesterday I was driving at Monaco and got little

This is pretty high-tech, so try to keep up ... ;-) Many of us have taken a squash ball, cut it in half and used it to provide progressive resistance under our brake pedals. (Actually, I use half a raquetball -- maybe THAT'S why I'm not faster.) Acquire a squash ball. Cut it in half. Wedge it under your brake pedal. (On my MSFF, I kind of fold it up and just shove it into the slot in the pedal housing -- it stays in place quite nicely.) Duct tape it into place if necessary. Many of us find that the feedback from the ball provides valuable input, and helps reduce or eliminate locked brakes. Try it. Regards Kurt Steinbock

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>Squash ball modification? Could someone tell more about this one... >-Harri >> John, >> Have you made the famous "squash ball" modification to your brake pedal? >If >> not, you won't believe how much it can help. >> E-mail me if you want detail (it's not very complex ;-) >> Regards >> Kurt >> My biggest problem is braking. I watch the >> >AI go into corners (especially down the back stretch into Parabolica), >and >> >they down-shift, but their tires never lock up. Mine ALWAYS lock up, >even >> >with hard-soft-soft-soft pump action. I've played with the brake-bias, >but >> >still can't find a good compromise. Am I chasing an elusive dream, or

is

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>> it >> >possible to brake without locking up? >> >And I agree - FF wheel with seperate brake/gas is the key. >> >Peace, >> >John Wehman >> >>When I started I was going 1:39's at monza in the Ferrari. >> >>Then I got Alisons Ferrari Monza setup and was down to >> >>1:35's & 1:36's. Well I took a week from driving GPL, read >> >>the manual and started again with a fresh mindset. >> >>Last night I tried again. I ran through 2 sessions of 9 laps >> >>(5 Gal of fuel) without spinning once. And my best time >> >>was 1:34.79. So... I am sure with practice I will be on the >> >>right track and the game is much fun. >> >>Last night I was starting to feel the "force" (using the throttle >> >>and very little brake to adjust my trajectory in the turns). That >> >>is a very cool sensation. >> >>Anyway thanks to everyone who helped me out. I actually >> >>had allot of fun last night doing consistent laps with no spin >> >>outs. >> >>I also find that the Logitech FF USB pedals are *VERY* >> >>accurate for braking, but you *MUST* separate the brake >> >>and throttle axis.

The biggest braking help for me (aside from pedal mods) was a sound file I downloaded that increased tire squeal volume as well as better engine sounds. This in itself made it much easier to tell when you are on the verge of brake lockup. Brake pressure can then be better modulated to avoid lockup and spin. Try this url: http://homepage.tinet.ie/~expatjen/patsound.htm Hope it is of some help Joe

> You can do better! Yesterday I was driving at Monaco and got little > frustrated so I tried the first time to set damage level to none. Then I > drove bouncing off the walls like crazy. My best time was 1.26.xx and I > propably could have beaten the world record, which I think is 1.24.xx, but I > got bored. I made almost 10 seconds improvement from my previous times! Of > course, after this "experiment", I restored my original player.ini file. Bear in mind that to qualify as a world record you must not even touch any of the walls - it's one of the hotlap rules (and now you know why!).

www.deja.com ... -- Best regards, Hena H?kk?nen Remove NOSPAM to email me! > Squash ball modification? Could someone tell more about this one... > -Harri > > John, > > Have you made the famous "squash ball" modification to your brake pedal? > If > > not, you won't believe how much it can help. > > E-mail me if you want detail (it's not very complex ;-) > > Regards > > Kurt > > My biggest problem is braking. I watch the > > >AI go into corners (especially down the back stretch into Parabolica), > and > > >they down-shift, but their tires never lock up. Mine ALWAYS lock up, > even > > >with hard-soft-soft-soft pump action. I've played with the brake-bias, > but > > >still can't find a good compromise. Am I chasing an elusive dream, or is > > it > > >possible to brake without locking up? > > >And I agree - FF wheel with seperate brake/gas is the key. > > >Peace, > > >John Wehman > > >>When I started I was going 1:39's at monza in the Ferrari. > > >>Then I got Alisons Ferrari Monza setup and was down to > > >>1:35's & 1:36's. Well I took a week from driving GPL, read > > >>the manual and started again with a fresh mindset. > > >>Last night I tried again. I ran through 2 sessions of 9 laps > > >>(5 Gal of fuel) without spinning once. And my best time > > >>was 1:34.79. So... I am sure with practice I will be on the > > >>right track and the game is much fun. > > >>Last night I was starting to feel the "force" (using the throttle > > >>and very little brake to adjust my trajectory in the turns). That > > >>is a very cool sensation. > > >>Anyway thanks to everyone who helped me out. I actually > > >>had allot of fun last night doing consistent laps with no spin > > >>outs. > > >>I also find that the Logitech FF USB pedals are *VERY* > > >>accurate for braking, but you *MUST* separate the brake > > >>and throttle axis.

>PRESSURE on the brake pedal. This gives a huge improvement in feel. I'm >going to look into converting my ECCI brake pedal from pot to strain gauge. >Anybody have any experience with doing this ? Not really a pressure gauge, but a huge improvement and puts less strain on those always-prone-to-break T2 pedal springs: Take a squash ball and some sort of wooden plank, drive a***through the board so that the tip points out on the other side (2-4 cm should be fine). Now wrap the squash ball in duct tape (otherwise the back of the brake pedal will virtually *saw* the thing in half within a couple of hours) a couple of times and***it onto the pin of the***by turning until the ball is firmly fixed onto the plank. Position the board at the back of your T2 pedal base, with the metal extension of the base *underneath* the board which should have contact with the wall for instance. Now make sure your brake pedals comes to rest squarely on the top of the squash ball, recalibrate, there you go, instant brake force feedback at a $1,99 ;-) Cheers, Uwe -- Uwe Schuerkamp http://www.schuerkamp.de/ uwe.schuerkamp at telemedia.de for direct mail (from: is spambox) PGP Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61