GPL - Question- Do I have to wean myself off of driving "arcade" view?

I am new to racing sims, and i am still busy learning GPL tracks, so racing is something i am working towards. I am wondering if I am doing anything drastically wrong in becoming dependent on "arcade view"... It gives me better spatial feel than "in car" view... Playing a computer simulation you are missing out on various cues that you get from reality. The sim racer is at a disadvantage and my feeling is that arcade view compensates for some of the stuff you miss by looking at a 2d screen... what problems will i encounter, if i persist with arcade view?. thanks steve.

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>I am new to racing sims, and i am still busy learning GPL tracks, so racing >is something >i am working towards. I am wondering if I am doing anything drastically >wrong >in becoming dependent on "arcade view"... It gives me better spatial feel >than "in car" view... >Playing a computer simulation you are missing out on various cues that you >get from reality. > The sim racer is at a disadvantage and my feeling is that arcade view >compensates for >some of the stuff you miss by looking at a 2d screen... >what problems will i encounter, if i persist with arcade view?.

Just use the view you like best. However, one drawback is you don't have mirrors in chaseview. Personally I think that spoils the fun of racing. When you race online, you really need those mirrors. Remco

You won't encounter any problems at all, Steve, if you become proficient at GPL using that view. To each his own and if the exterior viewpoint is your preference then stick with it. Expect much fire and brimstone from those who cannot tolerate anything other than the regular***pit view, however! :o)

says...

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>>I am new to racing sims, and i am still busy learning GPL >>tracks, so racing is something i am working towards. I am >>wondering if I am doing anything drastically wrong in >>becoming dependent on "arcade view"... It gives me better >>spatial feel than "in car" view... >>Playing a computer simulation you are missing out on various >>cues that you get from reality. >>The sim racer is at a disadvantage and my feeling is that >>arcade view compensates for some of the stuff you miss by >>looking at a 2d screen... >>what problems will i encounter, if i persist with arcade view?. >Just use the view you like best. However, one drawback is you don't >have mirrors in chaseview. Personally I think that spoils the fun of >racing. When you race online, you really need those mirrors.

Hmmm, I don't think it's any less fun. I tried in-car and I found that I couldn't see the turns soon enough to compensate for them. On top of that, I had absolutely no feel for the tracks because I'd never seen any of them in another sim bfore (I drove Nascar2 up until GPL was released). Driving in arcade view (I prefer the term "elevated view" - grin), I found that I could see the turns better, and that made me faster, which translated into being more competitive online. As far as realism, I'm not as interested in that aspect as I am in finishing a race on the lead lap. As far as not having any mirrors, I haven't found that to be a problem, as I use my *ears* to detect when a car is behind me. Works just as well as mirrors. As a side note, I would never consider driving Nascar2 in arcade mode. To each his own... -- ========================================================= Redneck Techno-Biker (Zerex12) http://www.members.home.net/jms1/index.html Barbarian Diecast Collector (370+ cars and counting) http://members.home.net/jsimm/diecast_index.html Internet Grand Prix Series Season 2 http://www.paddedwall.org/igps2/igps2.html North American Stockcar Racing Online Competition http://www.paddedwall.org/nasroc1/nasroc1.html Super X Philes http://members.home.net/kap/superx/superx.html If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

Well, the in-car view does, to me, transmit the intricacies of driving the car a lot better. OTOH, there is definitely something wrong with the feel for the dimensions of the car in GPL. I find myself regularly just "clipping" stuff I thought I'd clear or just putting a fraction of a wheel off, both recipes for disaster. The rear track feels smaller than it actually is. I've found it useful to watch replay's of my laps (done from the in-car perspective) from the provided camera views. To sort of compare where I was to where I think I was. Jan. ------ >You won't encounter any problems at all, Steve, if you become proficient at ><Snip>

However I find that in-car I have a much better feel for what the car is doing. This for me outweighs the better view over the circuit. Dolle Dolf > You won't encounter any problems at all, Steve, if you become proficient at > GPL using that view. > To each his own and if the exterior viewpoint is your preference then stick > with it. > Expect much fire and brimstone from those who cannot tolerate anything other

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> than the regular***pit view, however! :o) > > I am new to racing sims, and i am still busy learning GPL tracks, so > racing > > is something > > i am working towards. I am wondering if I am doing anything drastically > > wrong > > in becoming dependent on "arcade view"... It gives me better spatial

feel > > than "in car" view... > > Playing a computer simulation you are missing out on various cues that you

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> > get from reality. > > The sim racer is at a disadvantage and my feeling is that arcade view > > compensates for > > some of the stuff you miss by looking at a 2d screen... > > what problems will i encounter, if i persist with arcade view?. > > thanks > > steve.

Wolfgang Woeger, one of the fastest gpl drivers around, said that he always drives with the external view when he is hotlapping. But I'm drastically slower with the outside view so I allways use the in-car view. It's not only much more realistic, it gives me a better feeling with the car, especially with the force feedback on. Andre

same with me: it does not only give me a better car feeling (especially with force-feedback!), but it also makes the whole racing-feeling more authentic: you can almost smell the exhausts of the car in from when you are just some metres behind him. I will take advantage of every such option to increase this feeling :-) Lio

FYI, my comment about "spoiling the fun of racing" was only aimed to not having mirrors. I agree you can indentify a car being behind you by sound, but AFAIK you can't determine the position of that car. And that's in my view needed for racing. But, I agree with you, to each his own.... Remco

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>>Just use the view you like best. However, one drawback is you don't >>have mirrors in chaseview. Personally I think that spoils the fun of >>racing. When you race online, you really need those mirrors. >Hmmm, I don't think it's any less fun. I tried in-car and I found that I >couldn't see the turns soon enough to compensate for them. On top of >that, I had absolutely no feel for the tracks because I'd never seen any >of them in another sim bfore (I drove Nascar2 up until GPL was released). >Driving in arcade view (I prefer the term "elevated view" - grin), I >found that I could see the turns better, and that made me faster, which >translated into being more competitive online. >As far as realism, I'm not as interested in that aspect as I am in >finishing a race on the lead lap. As far as not having any mirrors, I >haven't found that to be a problem, as I use my *ears* to detect when a >car is behind me. Works just as well as mirrors.

I found that using the outside view helped while learning the tracks. Once I knew what to expect, driving from the***pit became easier. I suggest that you occasionally switch to***pit and see if you like it.

To wean yourself off the arcade view and move the the***pit view -- try driving with the roll-bar view. All I remember is you have the change the driver view entry to 12 in some ini file. Can anyone tell Steve exactly how to do this? Remember, once you make the change for the roll-bar view do *not* use F10 to change views or it will be overwritten. Jason.

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> I am new to racing sims, and i am still busy learning GPL tracks, so racing > is something > i am working towards. I am wondering if I am doing anything drastically > wrong > in becoming dependent on "arcade view"... It gives me better spatial feel > than "in car" view... > thanks > steve.

-------- Jason Monds "My other car is a Ferrari" http://members.home.net/gpl.mondsj/gpl (Please remove 'no extra spork' when replying)

I find it handy to use the following command line with v1.1 .........\gpl.exe -ko"20:personal information:drivingview:12" -- Alan Goss

you occasionally switch to***pit and see if you like it. I completely agree with that! Racing arcade and simulation games only for half a year now, GPL is the first game which I can play better in***pit view, because of the very good visual feedback of the very lively***pit. While I found Viper Racing much easier in "chase" view (sounds better than arcade ;-)) because here the car-movements provide a great feedback, in GPL this view is very flat and not of great help. FF seems to be a lot better in***pit-view too! So I guess sooner or later you'll switch to***pit-view. Until then: play how it feels good to you... Keep on truckin'! Zolli

I do the same thing in Viper Racing. I'm totally dependent on the "arcade" (near chase) view even though most folks would say that's not being true to the sim. I get a much better feel for what's happening and always turn in better lap times. I haven't tried arcade view in the GPL demo yet. From all I've heard it seems as if using it would be sacrilege :). Still though it'd probably be easier for driving. In NASCAR 99 and SCGT though, I always use***pit view. It's just easier to race that way for some reason...

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> I am new to racing sims, and i am still busy learning GPL tracks, so racing > is something > i am working towards. I am wondering if I am doing anything drastically > wrong > in becoming dependent on "arcade view"... It gives me better spatial feel > than "in car" view... > Playing a computer simulation you are missing out on various cues that you > get from reality. > The sim racer is at a disadvantage and my feeling is that arcade view > compensates for > some of the stuff you miss by looking at a 2d screen... > what problems will i encounter, if i persist with arcade view?. > thanks > steve.

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(snip) there is definitely something wrong with the feel (unsnip) Jan, I believe that this is caused by the fact that the collision detection zone actually extends beyond the "physical" bounds of the car and wheels.

Oh... so why wasn't that fixed in 1.1?? ;-)) Jan. ------ >(snip) >Jan, I believe that this is caused by the fact that the collision detection >zone actually extends beyond the "physical" bounds of the car and wheels.

<snip> You'll go blind & get hairy palms :) Randy (Apologizes if this has already been posted)

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>I am new to racing sims, and i am still busy learning GPL tracks, so racing >is something i am working towards. I am wondering if I am doing anything >drastically wrong in becoming dependent on "arcade view"... It gives me better >spatial feel than "in car" view... >Playing a computer simulation you are missing out on various cues that you >get from reality. The sim racer is at a disadvantage and my feeling is that >arcade view compensates for some of the stuff you miss by looking at a 2d screen...

I agree with what you are saying. In arcade view, I can see things I cannot feel within this (or any other) sim. F.i., in a real car, I always *know* how much space I have to the right and left. I also can feel when one of the wheels is about to leave the road / track. In sims, I don't know / feel those things as precisely. But, using the arcade view, I can *see* it and make corrections instead of spinning out. Having said this, the***pit view in GPL is just so immersive and beautifully done I don't want to miss it. I'm still a bit slower using it, but I like it soo much better than the arcade view. BTW, I only started using the***pit view again after I upgraded my computer recently. Even though the old setup gave me more or less constant 36 fps at 640x480, it's much smoother now. This makes driving in***pit much more enjoyable. Flak from the *** sim-heads, mainly. ;) You also do not have mirrors, which makes racing (as opposed to hotlapping) more difficult. -- Wolfgang Preiss \ E-mail copies of replies to this posting are welcome.

> >(snip) > >Jan, I believe that this is caused by the fact that the collision detection > >zone actually extends beyond the "physical" bounds of the car and wheels. > Oh... so why wasn't that fixed in 1.1?? ;-)) I believe it was, in fact! The problem was specifically with the Coventry, which was "wider" in terms of collision than its 3D appearance suggested. I have a classic replay of this making a real difference at the Glen, where I made a great move on an AI car up the inside (or so I thought) only to find both cars crashing off the road. In the replay you can see that at no time do the cars get closer than about a foot from each other. According to Randy this was fixed in the 1.1 patch.

No idea. The next time I attend a Sierra shareholders meeting I'll raise the question! :o)

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> Oh... so why wasn't that fixed in 1.1?? ;-)) > Jan. > ------ > >(snip) > >Jan, I believe that this is caused by the fact that the collision

detection > >zone actually extends beyond the "physical" bounds of the car and wheels.

In 1.0 I drove the Coventry with patch. In 1.1 I didn't use any patch, but feeling ok with the car-dimensions. Seems to be fixed. Jens BTW: I use the chase view for learning a track (Yes, I didn't race all the tracks yet). You can learn the efficient usage of the width much better so. Later I change back to normal view, since there is more sim-feeling. --------------------------------------------- Remove "NOSPAM" before using my email-address