GPL - torque diagrams?

Does anybody know a source for torque diagrams (and/or power diagrams) of the engines portrayed in GPL? I would favor the actual data used in the sim, but assume that Mr. Kaemmer chose the historically accurate numbers anyway. Therefore, diagrams for the engines in real life would be fine as well. I need this info for "scientific" gearing setups. (I won't find the seconds I need on the track, so I have to find them in the garage. :) -- Wolfgang Preiss \ E-mail copies of replies to this posting are welcome.

On Thu, 05 Aug 1999 07:24:39 GMT, . | \ _________/ | :) -- * rrevved at mindspring dot com

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>On Thu, 05 Aug 1999 07:24:39 GMT, >>Does anybody know a source for torque diagrams (and/or power diagrams) >>of the engines portrayed in GPL? > . > | \ >_________/ | >:)

Nothing - nothing - nothing - a lot - nothing? I think I'd like a *bit* more detail. :) -- Wolfgang Preiss \ E-mail copies of replies to this posting are welcome.

With some work and calculation, they maybe could be extracted from replay data: Accelerating on a long straight (Monza, Mexico) in 3rd or 4th gear from idle to redline (without wheel spin), and then car mass, drag and gear ratio have to be taken into consideration. Drag and friction is somewhat hard to guesstimate, but the deceleration after going into neutral at high speed should give a good hint. Using Juha K's gpldump (the old command line version), I once extracted replay data and created Excel-Diagrams, also with acceleration and deceleration: I was surprised that the cars could AFAIR brake with over 15 m/s2 or 1.5g. -- Matthias Flatt

There was an Excel application wrote for F1 cars... You select each gears (1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th,) gear ratio and the final gear ratio. The app figured on a 16.x tire and the min-max RPMs. what this would show is the relation between the road speed and the RPM for each gear. This was a good application, however, it was written for Excel 97 (I have 95) and it was written with only F1 in mind (I drive F3's). If I still have the app. I'll post it in Alt.Binaries.autos.sims (or something like that). Mike barlow

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> >On Thu, 05 Aug 1999 07:24:39 GMT, > >>Does anybody know a source for torque diagrams (and/or power diagrams) > >>of the engines portrayed in GPL? > > . > > | \ > >_________/ | > >:) > Nothing - nothing - nothing - a lot - nothing? > I think I'd like a *bit* more detail. :) > -- > Wolfgang Preiss \ E-mail copies of replies to this posting are welcome.

-- ========================================= Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing? ========================================= Racing online with the help of...... Race Communications Association http://members.xoom.com/RCA/toc.html Holodyne Engineering Mystic Music (have Your !!Name/Address!! placed here)

Stupid non-proportional fonts in Deja-News! Those didn't look much like I drew them in proportional. :( -Chris- ---Two wheels are better ---Proud owner of a 1998 ZX-9R Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

I think you've got that backwards. They look fine in a courier-type fixed-width font. (trn in an Xterm window) You must have drawn them in non-proportional (the only sensible thing to do), and dejanews must be stupid enough to show news articles in proportional (variable-width) fonts. Unless I've got *my* definitions backwards... (But the guy in the next office agrees with me 8-) Could you get around that by making it an html article? Adrian. Nitpickers 'R US.

-Chris- I drew them in Courier New fixed width and pasted it into the Deja-News posting window. It got changed after I posted. They actually look pretty good if you copy and paste them into a fixed width environment. Next office!? You mean you're at work and not working!? :) As if I didn't post this from work myself. <VBG> Probably, but I don't know how to do that. If anyone is desperate enough to want to really see these things I've got the .txt file and can e-mail it. -Chris- Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

I asked for these a few weeks after GPL was released. Papy had to use fairly accurate modelling and I have no idea why they wouldn't release the info. to us. It's not like very many people care one way or the other. Marc.

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> Does anybody know a source for torque diagrams (and/or power diagrams) > of the engines portrayed in GPL? I would favor the actual data used in > the sim, but assume that Mr. Kaemmer chose the historically accurate > numbers anyway. Therefore, diagrams for the engines in real life would > be fine as well. > I need this info for "scientific" gearing setups. (I won't find the > seconds I need on the track, so I have to find them in the garage. :) > -- > Wolfgang Preiss \ E-mail copies of replies to this posting are welcome.

cancellation warned.

If you are going to just optimize the gearing for straight line acceleration, Carroll Smith in his "Drive to Win" (See reference below) has a section on a technique to use experimentally with just (IIRC) a stopwatch, tach, and perhaps a landmark or two. The same book also has a method using "Gear Charts" that (as he promises) seems pretty close to optimal for this task also. It's not hard to do your own gear charts with simple spreadsheets, etc. I did my own baseline Lotus gearing that way... ;) For a road course you might want to include the effects of the corner speeds and accelerations between the corners to get the best results. Drive to Win, The Essential Guide to Race Driving, Carroll Smith, Carroll Smith Consulting, Inc., Palos Verdes Etates, CA, 1996. ISBN-0-9651600-0-9 (Try http://amazon.com or http://www.motorbooks.com/)

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> Does anybody know a source for torque diagrams (and/or power diagrams) > of the engines portrayed in GPL? I would favor the actual data used in > the sim, but assume that Mr. Kaemmer chose the historically accurate > numbers anyway. Therefore, diagrams for the engines in real life would > be fine as well. > I need this info for "scientific" gearing setups. (I won't find the > seconds I need on the track, so I have to find them in the garage. :)

I'm thinking of getting a bigger garage, myself ;) -- Matthew V. Jessick Motorsims Vehicle Dynamics Engineer (972)910-8866 Ext.125, Fax: (972)910-8216

>Stupid non-proportional fonts in Deja-News! Those >didn't look much like I drew them in proportional. :( They arrived here in good shape. But then, my newsreader has always been set to a proportional font. :) Thanks for this comprehensive answer! I still wish we had the "official" data, though. -- Wolfgang Preiss \ E-mail copies of replies to this posting are welcome.

>Using Juha K's gpldump (the old command line version), I once >extracted replay data and created Excel-Diagrams, also with >acceleration and deceleration: I was surprised that the cars could >AFAIR brake with over 15 m/s2 or 1.5g. How can that be? It can neither be the wings, nor the sticky tires, right? :) Or are the GPL tires not that bad after all? -- Wolfgang Preiss \ E-mail copies of replies to this posting are welcome.

AFAIR was max. acceleration about 1.1g only. Wind drag gives extra deceleration at higher speeds. Also, braking is done with 4 wheels, acceleration with only 2. They seems to be like modern road tyres (or slightly worse). -- Matthias Flatt

Just to let you know again, someone built an Excel application with the basic info you describe. I posted that application in the ALT.BINARIES.SIMULATORS.AUTOS NG.

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> >>Using Juha K's gpldump (the old command line version), I once > >>extracted replay data and created Excel-Diagrams, also with > >>acceleration and deceleration: I was surprised that the cars could > >>AFAIR brake with over 15 m/s2 or 1.5g. > AFAIR was max. acceleration about 1.1g only. > >How can that be? It can neither be the wings, nor the sticky tires, > >right? :) > Wind drag gives extra deceleration at higher speeds. > Also, braking is done with 4 wheels, acceleration with only 2. > >Or are the GPL tires not that bad after all? > They seems to be like modern road tyres (or slightly worse). > -- > Matthias Flatt

-- ========================================= Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing? ========================================= Racing online with the help of...... Race Communications Association http://members.xoom.com/RCA/toc.html Holodyne Engineering Mystic Music (have Your !!Name/Address!! placed here)