GPL easier at Monaco?

Is it just me, or has Monaco suddenly become drivable with GPL 1.1? I used to find it next to impossible to put in a clean lap, ie. without unintentionally riding the barriers, careering off curbs and into lamp-posts, and always always always demolishing the car at the chicane. Just tried it with the new setups in GPL 1.1, and all the cars feel much easier to cope with - I could even get round in the Lotus some of the time, and the Brabham and Coventry are just fabulous - light and manoeuverable with plenty of grip. One crucial difference is that they don't get horribly unstable accelerating out of Portier into the tunnel - that used to be an absolute nightmare, with the car weaving all over the place. I find the "personalities" of the car are even more apparent now - the Coventry is almost like a go-kart, the Brabham is light and nimble compared to the Lotus (which is still a b*gger to control), the Ferrari is smooth as silk but feels a bit heavy and so on. Anyone else find this, or am I just dreaming?

It could be because of this : -------- Previously, we stated that Papyrus did not make any changes to the physics in GPL 1.1. We were wrong. We have learned that Papyrus did make two very subtle changes to the physics, in addition to the changes we previously discussed. Here is a list of all of the changes impacting car control and behavior of which we are aware. We are assured that this is a complete list: Ride height. Papyrus changed the minimum ride height from 1.0 to 2.5 inches. Depending on your driving style and the setups you are using, running at 2.5 inches can make the cars seem either harder to drive or easier to drive. Steering response. Papyrus made a small change to the steering to optimize behavior with Force Feedback. Some drivers experience this as a slightly softer steering response, while others notice no difference at all. Setup adjustments can be used to offset the impact of this change. Tire calculation. Papyrus changed one calculation relating to the responsiveness of the tires. This is not a change in overall grip, and it is not intended to make the cars easier or more difficult to drive. Its sole intent is to make the tire behavior more closely approximate the behavior of tires in the real world. GPL 1.0 very slightly exaggerated the reduction in available lateral grip which occurs when longitudinal forces are applied through braking or acceleration. GPL 1.1's calculation more closely matches real world behavior, although the difference between GPL 1.0 and 1.1 is very small. Spring/damper interaction. Papyrus made a small change to the interaction between the springs and dampers. This change makes the GPL cars' suspension characteristics more closely approximate the behavior of real cars. The net effect is a very small reduction in damping. At this time, it is expected that the last three changes will also be found in future Papyrus sims based on the GPL physics model. From http://www.vroc.net/ --------- -- -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard/Nas-Frank> -- NROS Nascar sanctioned Guide http://www.nros.com/ -- May the Downforce be with you... "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

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> > Is it just me, or has Monaco suddenly become drivable with GPL 1.1? > It could be because of this : > -------- > Previously, we stated that Papyrus did not make any changes to the physics > in GPL 1.1. We were wrong. > We have learned that Papyrus did make two very subtle changes to the > physics... [SNIP]

Yes, I guess my real thought was: is it the change in the physics, or is it just that the new default setups are so excellent! IMO they are even better than Ali Hine's earlier efforts, so either they improved them even further, or the physics change has had an effect, or maybe I just got better without realizing it! ;-)

it the change in the physics, or is The 1.1 standard setups are certainly much easier to drive than the 1.0 ones. But on the not so twisty tracks I'm always slower with the 1.1's. Peter Vienna, Austria

From the 1.1 readme.txt: 8. NEW DEFAULT CAR SETUPS ---------------------------- New default car setups for all of the Grand Prix cars are included. The original default setups are, generally, faster when driven by an experienced driver than these new setups. The new setups are, generally, more forgiving for inexperienced drivers and, within a given chassis type, have a more consistent "feel" from track to track.

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>Is it just me, or has Monaco suddenly become drivable with GPL 1.1? >I used to find it next to impossible to put in a clean lap, ie. without >unintentionally riding the barriers, careering off curbs and into >lamp-posts, and always always always demolishing the car at the chicane. >Just tried it with the new setups in GPL 1.1, and all the cars feel much >easier to cope with - I could even get round in the Lotus some of the >time, and the Brabham and Coventry are just fabulous - light and >manoeuverable with plenty of grip. >One crucial difference is that they don't get horribly unstable >accelerating out of Portier into the tunnel - that used to be an >absolute nightmare, with the car weaving all over the place. >I find the "personalities" of the car are even more apparent now - the >Coventry is almost like a go-kart, the Brabham is light and nimble >compared to the Lotus (which is still a b*gger to control), the Ferrari >is smooth as silk but feels a bit heavy and so on. >Anyone else find this, or am I just dreaming?

Don Scurlock Vancouver,B.C.

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> From the 1.1 readme.txt: > 8. NEW DEFAULT CAR SETUPS > ---------------------------- > New default car setups for all of the Grand Prix cars are included. The > original default setups are, generally, faster when driven by an experienced > driver than these new setups. The new setups are, generally, more forgiving > for inexperienced drivers and, within a given chassis type, have a more > consistent "feel" from track to track.

Yes, I read that too - but my experience has been that I'm more consistent *and* faster with the new setups. True, my best time at the Glen (1:05.45) was set with Wolfgang Woeger's insane oversteering Lotus setup, but I've done a 1:06.5 with the new default setup and (more importantly) can get consistent 1:07's with it. I seem to remember the original Lotus setup was difficult to drive (but not as hard as WW's setup!) and it took me ages to get down to 1:07 with it. Then again, that was probably just me (still learning). Anyway, I guess it just shows that consistency leads to speed...

>> Is it just me, or has Monaco suddenly become drivable with GPL 1.1? >It could be because of this : >-------- >Previously, we stated that Papyrus did not make any changes to the physics >in GPL 1.1. We were wrong. >We have learned that Papyrus did make two very subtle changes to the >physics, in addition to the changes we previously discussed. Here is a list >of all of the changes impacting car control and behavior of which we are >aware. We are assured that this is a complete list: >Ride height. Papyrus changed the minimum ride height from 1.0 to 2.5 inches. >Depending on your driving style and the setups you are using, running at 2.5 >inches can make the cars seem either harder to drive or easier to drive. >Steering response. Papyrus made a small change to the steering to optimize >behavior with Force Feedback. Some drivers experience this as a slightly >softer steering response, while others notice no difference at all. Setup >adjustments can be used to offset the impact of this change. >Tire calculation. Papyrus changed one calculation relating to the >responsiveness of the tires. This is not a change in overall grip, and it is >not intended to make the cars easier or more difficult to drive. Its sole >intent is to make the tire behavior more closely approximate the behavior of >tires in the real world. >GPL 1.0 very slightly exaggerated the reduction in available lateral grip >which occurs when longitudinal forces are applied through braking or >acceleration. GPL 1.1's calculation more closely matches real world >behavior, although the difference between GPL 1.0 and 1.1 is very small. >Spring/damper interaction. Papyrus made a small change to the interaction >between the springs and dampers. This change makes the GPL cars' suspension >characteristics more closely approximate the behavior of real cars. The net >effect is a very small reduction in damping. >At this time, it is expected that the last three changes will also be found >in future Papyrus sims based on the GPL physics model. >From http://www.vroc.net/ >--------- Hmmmm. As small as they are, those last 3 are STILL fundamental physics changes IMHO. Now, if these changes are really there to make it closer to a real car, then I'm all for them. However, if 'closer to real' is actually a cover for 'make it easier to improve mass market appeal to make more cash', then I'm frankly dissappointed. I'm sure Papy did do it for reality, but please, Randy, Eric, anyone else at Papy, please tell me it isn't for the latter. Gavin Thomas C%p Website ;) - www.sharknose.freeserve.co.uk Please remove the VQPGSG before replying by email. ***** Posted via the UK Online online newsreader ***** Go to http://www.ukonline.co.uk to find out about other online services we offer our subscribers.

>> Is it just me, or has Monaco suddenly become drivable with GPL 1.1? >It could be because of this : >-------- >Previously, we stated that Papyrus did not make any changes to the physics >in GPL 1.1. We were wrong. >We have learned that Papyrus did make two very subtle changes to the >physics, in addition to the changes we previously discussed. Here is a list >of all of the changes impacting car control and behavior of which we are >aware. We are assured that this is a complete list: >Ride height. Papyrus changed the minimum ride height from 1.0 to 2.5 inches. >Depending on your driving style and the setups you are using, running at 2.5 >inches can make the cars seem either harder to drive or easier to drive. >Steering response. Papyrus made a small change to the steering to optimize >behavior with Force Feedback. Some drivers experience this as a slightly >softer steering response, while others notice no difference at all. Setup >adjustments can be used to offset the impact of this change. >Tire calculation. Papyrus changed one calculation relating to the >responsiveness of the tires. This is not a change in overall grip, and it is >not intended to make the cars easier or more difficult to drive. Its sole >intent is to make the tire behavior more closely approximate the behavior of >tires in the real world. >GPL 1.0 very slightly exaggerated the reduction in available lateral grip >which occurs when longitudinal forces are applied through braking or >acceleration. GPL 1.1's calculation more closely matches real world >behavior, although the difference between GPL 1.0 and 1.1 is very small. >Spring/damper interaction. Papyrus made a small change to the interaction >between the springs and dampers. This change makes the GPL cars' suspension >characteristics more closely approximate the behavior of real cars. The net >effect is a very small reduction in damping. >At this time, it is expected that the last three changes will also be found >in future Papyrus sims based on the GPL physics model. >From http://www.vroc.net/ >--------- Hmmmm. As small as they are, those last 3 are STILL fundamental physics changes IMHO. Now, if these changes are really there to make it closer to a real car, then I'm all for them. However, if 'closer to real' is actually a cover for 'make it easier to improve mass market appeal to make more cash', then I'm frankly dissappointed. I'm sure Papy did do it for reality, but please, Randy, Eric, anyone else at Papy, please tell me it isn't for the latter. Gavin Thomas C%p Website ;) - www.sharknose.freeserve.co.uk Please remove the MEEWLE before replying by email. ***** Posted via the UK Online online newsreader ***** Go to http://www.ukonline.co.uk to find out about other online services we offer our subscribers.

>> Is it just me, or has Monaco suddenly become drivable with GPL 1.1? >It could be because of this : >-------- >Previously, we stated that Papyrus did not make any changes to the physics >in GPL 1.1. We were wrong. >We have learned that Papyrus did make two very subtle changes to the >physics, in addition to the changes we previously discussed. Here is a list >of all of the changes impacting car control and behavior of which we are >aware. We are assured that this is a complete list: >Ride height. Papyrus changed the minimum ride height from 1.0 to 2.5 inches. >Depending on your driving style and the setups you are using, running at 2.5 >inches can make the cars seem either harder to drive or easier to drive. >Steering response. Papyrus made a small change to the steering to optimize >behavior with Force Feedback. Some drivers experience this as a slightly >softer steering response, while others notice no difference at all. Setup >adjustments can be used to offset the impact of this change. >Tire calculation. Papyrus changed one calculation relating to the >responsiveness of the tires. This is not a change in overall grip, and it is >not intended to make the cars easier or more difficult to drive. Its sole >intent is to make the tire behavior more closely approximate the behavior of >tires in the real world. >GPL 1.0 very slightly exaggerated the reduction in available lateral grip >which occurs when longitudinal forces are applied through braking or >acceleration. GPL 1.1's calculation more closely matches real world >behavior, although the difference between GPL 1.0 and 1.1 is very small. >Spring/damper interaction. Papyrus made a small change to the interaction >between the springs and dampers. This change makes the GPL cars' suspension >characteristics more closely approximate the behavior of real cars. The net >effect is a very small reduction in damping. >At this time, it is expected that the last three changes will also be found >in future Papyrus sims based on the GPL physics model. >From http://www.vroc.net/ >--------- Hmmmm. As small as they are, those last 3 are STILL fundamental physics changes IMHO. Now, if these changes are really there to make it closer to a real car, then I'm all for them. However, if 'closer to real' is actually a cover for 'make it easier to improve mass market appeal to make more cash', then I'm frankly dissappointed. I'm sure Papy did do it for reality, but please, Randy, Eric, anyone else at Papy, please tell me it isn't for the latter. Gavin Thomas C%p Website ;) - www.sharknose.freeserve.co.uk Please remove the TCIATO before replying by email. ***** Posted via the UK Online online newsreader ***** Go to http://www.ukonline.co.uk to find out about other online services we offer our subscribers.

Man, I suck at GPL, never really gave it the time to learn it. Silverstone was always my favorite track, and still my best time was only a 1:35.......well, within the first 2 days after patch I wittled that down to a 1:31, Now I am down to 1:29......which is probably slow online. But it was always considered to me that starting any higher than 10th in a 19 car race was unacheivable by me......starting on the front row every race now and even grabbing my first novice race win against the AI was pretty sweet. Thanks for whatever it was cause I have had many a great adrenaline rush since that patch! >maybe I just got better without realizing it! ;-)

Mass market appeal of a game thats been on the shelf for over a year? No, I don't think so. As been said so many times over, its not the physics that make the game not appeal to the public, but rather its the topic. And no matter how small or how large of change to the physics, that isn't going the mass market appeal.

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> Hmmmm. As small as they are, those last 3 are STILL fundamental > physics changes IMHO. > Now, if these changes are really there to make it closer to a real > car, then I'm all for them. > However, if 'closer to real' is actually a cover for 'make it easier > to improve mass market appeal to make more cash', then I'm frankly > dissappointed. > I'm sure Papy did do it for reality, but please, Randy, Eric, anyone > else at Papy, please tell me it isn't for the latter. > Gavin Thomas > C%p Website ;) - www.sharknose.freeserve.co.uk > Please remove the MEEWLE before replying by email. > ***** Posted via the UK Online online newsreader ***** > Go to http://www.ukonline.co.uk to find out > about other online services we offer our subscribers.

Since the patch is free, and that 99.99999% of the people who download the patch are hard-core simracers, I think this is irrelevant :) I mean cmon, what would had been the point ? They won't loose or increase sales with a patch, it's just an additional pleasure for the customers to enjoy. It's not CART : Precision Racing, ya know ;-D -- -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard/Nas-Frank> -- NROS Nascar sanctioned Guide http://www.nros.com/ -- May the Downforce be with you... "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

I've only had GPL for a short time and I'm 1:09 at the Glen having only done a few laps there. Since I discovered the Nurburgring I haven't been able to leave. I find the defaults setups too tight in 1.1. I've been having my best results with the setups of Alison Hine and Graeme Nash. I can't even begin to figure out those visciously loose Lotus hotlap setups. Don Scurlock Vancouver,B.C.

Have your say. http://www.ozemail.com.au/~norbtech So far the majority are saying it is easier to drive patched.

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> > Is it just me, or has Monaco suddenly become drivable with GPL 1.1? > It could be because of this : > -------- > Previously, we stated that Papyrus did not make any changes to the physics > in GPL 1.1. We were wrong. > We have learned that Papyrus did make two very subtle changes to the > physics, in addition to the changes we previously discussed. Here is a list > of all of the changes impacting car control and behavior of which we are > aware. We are assured that this is a complete list: > Ride height. Papyrus changed the minimum ride height from 1.0 to 2.5 inches. > Depending on your driving style and the setups you are using, running at 2.5 > inches can make the cars seem either harder to drive or easier to drive. > Steering response. Papyrus made a small change to the steering to optimize > behavior with Force Feedback. Some drivers experience this as a slightly > softer steering response, while others notice no difference at all. Setup > adjustments can be used to offset the impact of this change. > Tire calculation. Papyrus changed one calculation relating to the > responsiveness of the tires. This is not a change in overall grip, and it is > not intended to make the cars easier or more difficult to drive. Its sole > intent is to make the tire behavior more closely approximate the behavior of > tires in the real world. > GPL 1.0 very slightly exaggerated the reduction in available lateral grip > which occurs when longitudinal forces are applied through braking or > acceleration. GPL 1.1's calculation more closely matches real world > behavior, although the difference between GPL 1.0 and 1.1 is very small. > Spring/damper interaction. Papyrus made a small change to the interaction > between the springs and dampers. This change makes the GPL cars' suspension > characteristics more closely approximate the behavior of real cars. The net > effect is a very small reduction in damping. > At this time, it is expected that the last three changes will also be found > in future Papyrus sims based on the GPL physics model. > From http://www.vroc.net/ > --------- > -- > -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard/Nas-Frank> > -- NROS Nascar sanctioned Guide http://www.nros.com/ > -- May the Downforce be with you... > "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

-- Todd Norbury Norbury Technologies

Monaco was always easy! Wasn't it? <g> ;)) -- TIM "Calm Down" WHEATLEY. The Homemade HondaFreek! Visit the Honda Homepage ! http://underworld.fortunecity.com/arcadia/509/index.html or E-Mail the HondaFreek !

Hmm. I suspect frame rate is part of the problem - I have to turn all details down to minimum, few trackside objects etc. and I still can't get a constant 36 fps. Anyway, last night I managed to get my Wicked3D glasses working (they just released drivers that work with Voodoo Banshee) so I was driving round Monaco in full stereoscopic 3D! It was so amazing I turned all details back up to max just to see all the eye candy in all its true splendour! The 3D effect really does help you to see where you are on the track, but unfortunately it seems to halve the vertical screen resolution, so that makes it harder to see what's happening further up the track (which is where you need to be looking!). Still, it really was an experience - flying through the chicane in stereo 3D just has to be seen to be believed! The best part is that when other cars are around you get a much better idea of where they are relative to you, and whether you're closing on them or not. It doesn't seem to help my laptimes (probably due to ***framerate and screen resolution), but at the moment I don't really care - it's just a great way to get even more immersed in the tracks than before!

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>Man, I suck at GPL, never really gave it the time to learn it. Silverstone >was always my favorite track, and still my best time was only a >1:35.......well, within the first 2 days after patch I wittled that down to >a 1:31, Now I am down to 1:29......which is probably slow online. But it was >always considered to me that starting any higher than 10th in a 19 car race >was unacheivable by me......starting on the front row every race now and >even grabbing my first novice race win against the AI was pretty sweet. >Thanks for whatever it was cause I have had many a great adrenaline rush >since that patch!

1:29?!? Man, I was at 1:35 before the patch, and I'm at 1:35 AFTER the patch. I don't get it... :-( Eldred __ Put your message in a modem, and throw it in the ***-sea... remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

So it is. We have to be grateful for that energy Papy (or particular members) put in. Jens <snip>> --------------------------------------------- Remove "NOSPAM" before using my email-address

Gavin, check your browser setting. Jens <snip> --------------------------------------------- Remove "NOSPAM" before using my email-address