(GPL) right or left foot breaking?

Which foot do you GPL hotlappers out there break with? I guess that in the '60s (since they still had real clutches then) most used the right foot and heel'n'toed to apply break & power at the same time. But since we don't much need the clutch in GPL, should a beginner start learning to use left foot breaking or not?

On Sun, 25 Jul 1999 22:12:24 -0400, "steven fellini"

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>Which foot do you GPL hotlappers out there break with? I guess that in the >'60s >(since they still had real clutches then) most used the right foot and >heel'n'toed to >apply break & power at the same time. But since we don't much need the >clutch >in GPL, should a beginner start learning to use left foot breaking or not?

I drive an automatic in real life, so whenever I sit down at the steering wheel on my computer, my natural instinct is to use my right foot for both accelerating and braking. It works just fine for me.

Do as I did.....learn to left-foot brake until it becomes a habit that you then transfer over to your road car. It works.

That doesn't make sense, Thomas :o). It would have made sense if you drive a manual in real life, but an automatic leaves your left foot free for braking??? /Christer, the logic guard ;o)

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> On Sun, 25 Jul 1999 22:12:24 -0400, "steven fellini" > >Which foot do you GPL hotlappers out there break with? I guess that in the > >'60s > >(since they still had real clutches then) most used the right foot and > >heel'n'toed to > >apply break & power at the same time. But since we don't much need the > >clutch > >in GPL, should a beginner start learning to use left foot breaking or not? > I drive an automatic in real life, so whenever I sit down at the > steering wheel on my computer, my natural instinct is to use my right > foot for both accelerating and braking. It works just fine for me.

I drive car with manual shifting and whan i first got my T2 i put my left foot on the brake without even thinking to brake with the right foot. I would say it's much better to brake with left foot. Borut

> I drive car with manual shifting and whan i first got my T2 i put my left > foot on the brake without even thinking to brake with the right foot. I > would say it's much better to brake with left foot. Too right - there's just no way you have enough time to keep moving your right foot from pedal to pedal, so unless you can master the heel/toe technique used by real racing drivers you will find it very difficult to have full control of the car.

I would like to point out. Michael Schumacher RIGHT FOOT BRAKES! Randy

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>> I drive car with manual shifting and whan i first got my T2 i put my left >> foot on the brake without even thinking to brake with the right foot. I >> would say it's much better to brake with left foot. >Too right - there's just no way you have enough time to keep moving your >right foot from pedal to pedal, so unless you can master the heel/toe >technique used by real racing drivers you will find it very difficult to >have full control of the car.

Randy Magruder http://members.home.com/rmagruder

> I would like to point out. Michael Schumacher RIGHT FOOT BRAKES! He also left-foot brakes :-) Matt -- --------------------------------- Matthew Birger Knutsen The Art of Legends; http://www.gpl.electra.no Cheek Racing Cars; http://www.cheekracing.electra.no

I have split-axis pedals and brake with my left foot. This helps me to brake as IMHO it is a lot easier. It also means it's easier to apply a slight bit of throttle under braking if the back begins to slide out. -- Cheers! Graeme Nash http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk ICQ# 11257824

yeah, that-- and, who wants to drive an automatic in real life? :) but it really doesn't make sense... drive a manual in real life, but an automatic leaves your left foot free for braking??? steering wheel on my computer, my natural instinct is to use my right foot for both accelerating and braking. It works just fine for me.

>I would like to point out. Michael Schumacher RIGHT FOOT BRAKES! >Randy Don't you mean Michael Schumacher's RIGHT LEG BREAKS? ;) --- David Goodwin

>I drive car with manual shifting and whan i first got my T2 i put my left >foot on the brake without even thinking to brake with the right foot. I >would say it's much better to brake with left foot. >Borut Even when I *did* have a manual shift car, I still used my right foot on the brake...used the left on the clutch. Eldred __ Put your message in a modem, and throw it in the ***-sea... remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

On Mon, 26 Jul 1999 18:25:12 +1000, "Bruce Kennewell" >Do as I did.....learn to left-foot brake until it becomes a habit that you >then transfer over to your road car. NO, NO, NO, NO, NO!!! This is perhaps one of the MOST unsafe practices I can possibly imagine behind the wheel of a moving vehicle. My driver's ed instructor taught me many, many (did I mention many?) years ago that you NEVER want to get into the habit of left-foot braking. Why? Because if you're suddenly in a panic situation, what's your first instinct? You stiffen up, and you brace yourself -- your hands braced against the wheel, and your feet braced against the floor (or whatever pedal they happen to come to rest on). If you're lucky, you get the proper foot on the brake and in addition to panicking, you also tend to slow down. If the foot you usually stomp on the brake with also happens to be the RIGHT foot, then that means that in addition to stiffening up and bracing yourself and stepping on the brake, you're also stepping OFF the throttle -- all of which helps you slow down and possibly avoid whatever caused the panic in the first place. On the other hand, if your normal, conditioned, learned instinct (read: Bad habit) is to brake with your LEFT foot (again: Bad habit), then what will probably happen is this -- your left foot will be planted on the brake, while your right foot buries itself in the throttle. Let's review: The left foot standing on the brake, the right foot flooring the throttle. So, in this situation, if your intention was to stop as quickly as possible because of some panic situation, it seems that you're probably going to have a problem -- now, instead of executing a close call panic stop, you're either going to sideswipe that semi that just ran the red light, or run head-on into that taxi that's going the wrong way down a one way street, or you're going to kill that little three-year-old child that just ran into the street chasing its ball -- ALL BECAUSE YOU GOT INTO THE BAD, BAD HABIT OF BRAKING WITH YOUR LEFT FOOT. Stupid, stupid, stupid. Besides -- if you let yourself learn how to drive this way, then switching over to a manual transmission is going to be nigh impossible; you can't use the left foot to operate the clutch and brake at the same time. Left-footed braking belongs on the track -- not behind the wheel of a half-ton hunk of metal on public roads where you can kill innocent people. -- John Bodin Publisher, The IRL Insider Magazine http://irlinsider.adnetweb.com/

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>It works. >> Which foot do you GPL hotlappers out there break with? I guess that in >the >> '60s >> (since they still had real clutches then) most used the right foot and >> heel'n'toed to >> apply break & power at the same time. But since we don't much need the >> clutch >> in GPL, should a beginner start learning to use left foot breaking or not?

On Mon, 26 Jul 1999 15:27:23 +0200, Christer Andersson >That doesn't make sense, Thomas :o). It would have made sense if you >drive a manual in real life, but an automatic leaves your left foot >free for braking??? Please refer to my rant regarding left-foot braking in roadgoing cars equipped with automatic transmissions. It's a bad, bad, bad habit to get into. -- JB

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>/Christer, the logic guard ;o) >> On Sun, 25 Jul 1999 22:12:24 -0400, "steven fellini" >> >Which foot do you GPL hotlappers out there break with? I guess that in the >> >'60s >> >(since they still had real clutches then) most used the right foot and >> >heel'n'toed to >> >apply break & power at the same time. But since we don't much need the >> >clutch >> >in GPL, should a beginner start learning to use left foot breaking or not? >> I drive an automatic in real life, so whenever I sit down at the >> steering wheel on my computer, my natural instinct is to use my right >> foot for both accelerating and braking. It works just fine for me.

Uh, no he doesn't, unless he's in a go-kart where he has no choice. But he'll have to probably re-learn left-foot braking when he gets back from his injury as his right foot will undoubtedly have a difficult time with the pressure required on the brakes. Randy >> I would like to point out. Michael Schumacher RIGHT FOOT BRAKES! >He also left-foot brakes :-) >Matt Randy Magruder http://members.home.com/rmagruder

Well guys, I'd like to put in a little feedback for this question. I left foot brake personally. I feel that I get quicker reaction times that way. :) Dan Belcher Team Racing Unlimited

> Uh, no he doesn't, unless he's in a go-kart where he has no choice. > But he'll have to probably re-learn left-foot braking when he gets > back from his injury as his right foot will undoubtedly have a > difficult time with the pressure required on the brakes. > Randy Yeah, he does. "left-foot-braking" is a technique invented by the Flying Finns, or so the story goes. To get the front tires to grip while on full accel, the brakes are "dabbed". I've seen In-car shots of him doing it several times (last one I remember was the "whatever-R" flat out turn at Suzuka. Hell, I even saw Ricky Rudd LFB'ing his way through the esses at the Glen! And how can you be so sure he does not left foot it? It's common practice in F1 these days, they have no clutch to worry about, the transition from pedal to pedal takes time.... I am quite certain the McLaren guys & Jordan are leftfooting. Some drivers felt uncomfortable with it (Zanardi took some time to get used to it) so they had to stick with the common setup. :) Matt

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> >> I would like to point out. Michael Schumacher RIGHT FOOT BRAKES! > >He also left-foot brakes :-) > >Matt > Randy Magruder > http://members.home.com/rmagruder

-- --------------------------------- Matthew Birger Knutsen The Art of Legends; http://www.gpl.electra.no Cheek Racing Cars; http://www.cheekracing.electra.no

Check http://www.ITV-F1.Com, where Mika Hakkinen was expressing concern about Michael's ability to regain his driving form because of how difficult it will be for him as a right foot braker to put pressure on that leg. Randy

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>> Uh, no he doesn't, unless he's in a go-kart where he has no choice. >> But he'll have to probably re-learn left-foot braking when he gets >> back from his injury as his right foot will undoubtedly have a >> difficult time with the pressure required on the brakes. >> Randy >Yeah, he does. "left-foot-braking" is a technique invented by the Flying >Finns, or so the story goes. >To get the front tires to grip while on full accel, the brakes are >"dabbed". I've seen In-car shots of >him doing it several times (last one I remember was the "whatever-R" >flat out turn at Suzuka. >Hell, I even saw Ricky Rudd LFB'ing his way through the esses at the >Glen! >And how can you be so sure he does not left foot it? It's common >practice in F1 these days, they >have no clutch to worry about, the transition from pedal to pedal takes >time.... >I am quite certain the McLaren guys & Jordan are leftfooting. Some >drivers felt uncomfortable with it >(Zanardi took some time to get used to it) so they had to stick with the >common setup. >:) >Matt >> >> I would like to point out. Michael Schumacher RIGHT FOOT BRAKES! >> >He also left-foot brakes :-) >> >Matt >> Randy Magruder >> http://members.home.com/rmagruder

Randy Magruder http://members.home.com/rmagruder

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> On Mon, 26 Jul 1999 18:25:12 +1000, "Bruce Kennewell" > >Do as I did.....learn to left-foot brake until it becomes a habit that you > >then transfer over to your road car. > NO, NO, NO, NO, NO!!! This is perhaps one of the MOST unsafe > practices I can possibly imagine behind the wheel of a moving vehicle. > [SNIP]

As it happens I do drive an automatic in real life, and in fact I use my right foot to brake, even though I use left-foot braking in GPL. It's just a result of the layout of the pedals - the "real" car has a little shelf-type thing where you put your left foot, and you then use your right foot for the accelerator and brake. This was very natural for me as I'd always driven manual cars before. On the other hand, the TSW pedals are side-by side and are much narrower, so it would be very difficult to right-foot brake and still be anywhere near competitive. Left-foot braking just seemed natural right from the start, and I have no problem going back to right-foot braking in the real car - after all, I'm not racing when I'm driving that car! I thought that racing drivers who right-foot brake had a special layout of pedals and used their heel for the brake and toe for the accelerator (or is it the other way round?).

On Mon, 26 Jul 1999 15:27:23 +0200, Christer Andersson >That doesn't make sense, Thomas :o). It would have made sense if you >drive a manual in real life, but an automatic leaves your left foot >free for braking??? Bad practice in real life on roads; braking with your right foot makes sure you don't step on the throttle as you brake, especially in emergency situations, where the neocortex loses it from your limbic system and reflexes are the only thing trying to save you or the thing that's causing the panic. Ruud van Gaal MarketGraph / MachTech: http://www.marketgraph.nl Art: http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery

>> I would like to point out. Michael Schumacher RIGHT FOOT BRAKES! Not any more

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>> On Mon, 26 Jul 1999 18:25:12 +1000, "Bruce Kennewell" >> >Do as I did.....learn to left-foot brake until it becomes a habit that you >> >then transfer over to your road car. >> NO, NO, NO, NO, NO!!! This is perhaps one of the MOST unsafe >> practices I can possibly imagine behind the wheel of a moving vehicle. >> [SNIP] >As it happens I do drive an automatic in real life, and in fact I use my >right foot to brake, even though I use left-foot braking in GPL. >It's just a result of the layout of the pedals - the "real" car has a >little shelf-type thing where you put your left foot, and you then use >your right foot for the accelerator and brake. This was very natural >for me as I'd always driven manual cars before. >On the other hand, the TSW pedals are side-by side and are much >narrower, so it would be very difficult to right-foot brake and still be >anywhere near competitive. Left-foot braking just seemed natural right >from the start, and I have no problem going back to right-foot braking >in the real car - after all, I'm not racing when I'm driving that car!

I've never been able to adapt to doing it that way, even with my TSW pedals -- left-foot braking on the track is fine, of course; the purpose of my rant was to discourage beginning (real-life) drivers from getting into the habit of left-foot braking in a REAL car. Since there are so many people out there now who CAN'T drive a manual transmission, it frightens me to think how many people might actually be using their left foot to brake. <shiver!> I'm not sure if it's a special layout, but the pedals are VERY closely spaced in a Champ car or an IRL car, for example. -- JB

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>>I drive car with manual shifting and whan i first got my T2 i put my left >>foot on the brake without even thinking to brake with the right foot. I >>would say it's much better to brake with left foot. >>Borut >Even when I *did* have a manual shift car, I still used my right foot on the >brake...used the left on the clutch. >Eldred

I brake with the right foot in real life (automatic transmission and manual shift alike) and with the left foot in sims. I can't teach my left foot to apply the right amount of pressure on a pedal with little travel and a lot of resistance (real life brake), but it's quite good in modulating a pedal with little resistance and a lot of travel (real life clutch / T2 brake pedal). -- Wolfgang Preiss \ E-mail copies of replies to this posting are welcome.

> >> I would like to point out. Michael Schumacher RIGHT FOOT BRAKES! > Not any more Well, the mis-spelling of the title of this thread must have been some kind of Freudian slip!

% Well guys, I'd like to put in a little feedback for this question. I left foot % brake personally. I feel that I get quicker reaction times that way. :) In sim life, I brake with the left foot. Why, partially due to the pedal layout of my controller. But, in GPL I spend alot of time doing a left/right foot ballet in the corners. I would not be able to have the control I need to keep the car balanced through the turns if I only used one foot for both gas and brake. But then, I am not a "hot-lapper" just an almost consistent-not-quite mid-packer. <G> -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

On Mon, 26 Jul 1999 15:27:23 +0200, Christer Andersson >That doesn't make sense, Thomas :o). It would have made sense if you >drive a manual in real life, but an automatic leaves your left foot >free for braking??? It makes perfect sense! Do you drive an automatic or manual? Drivers who drive an automatic vehicle will usually use their right foot for both braking AND accelerating!

On Mon, 26 Jul 1999 19:46:30 +0200, Matthew Birger Knutsen >> I would like to point out. Michael Schumacher RIGHT FOOT BRAKES! You must consider that nearly every european driver brakes by right foot: here we are not too much used to auto-shift as you in USA:)) if you have to use manual gears & clutch, right foot is natural choice, imho bye Franz xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Quos Jupiter vult perdere,dementat prius.

: On Mon, 26 Jul 1999 19:46:30 +0200, Matthew Birger Knutsen :> :> :> :>> I would like to point out. Michael Schumacher RIGHT FOOT BRAKES! :>> : You must consider that nearly every european driver brakes by right : foot: I'm sure that most european F1 drivers do not. I'm pretty sure that Schumacher doesn't - I couldn't find the article Randy referred to but I am positive that there is a misunderstanding there. Hakkinen may have said that Michael's leg wouldn't have stood up to the forces generated by braking (for example). Schumacher almost certainly does not right foot brake. I think Hill is one of the few remaining drivers that does and that's only because he can't get the hang of it. (Tried it for a while in 96 and couldn't master it). -- Richard G. Clegg Only the mind is waving Dept. of Mathematics (Network Control group) Uni. of York. www: http://manor.york.ac.uk/top.html

There was absolutely no misunderstanding. I'll dig up the article and quote it so you see. What's your source for this? At least I have a legitimate source for my comment. Randy Randy Magruder http://members.home.com/rmagruder

Well, from my understanding Schumacher has mastered the art of trailbraking and keeping the momentum exiting the corners, because he applies both gas and brake at the same time (sorta like the Turbo-era of F1). From hearing him at a F1 track in Montreal for the past almost 7years, you can clearly see he keeps the revs up a little into the corners when he brakes, so he has to use both pedals at the same time, I can't imagine him using the heel for the gas and toe for the brake. I mean he got his experience from Karting, so that's how he learned to race a car (both feet on both pedals). IMHO -- -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard/Nas-Frank> -- NROS Nascar sanctioned Guide http://www.nros.com/ -- May the Downforce be with you... "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

>It makes perfect sense! Do you drive an automatic or manual? >Drivers who drive an automatic vehicle will usually use their right >foot for both braking AND accelerating! Still don't get it... and what are those of us doing with manual gearboxes? braking with their head? ;) --Tel

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>> I'm sure that most european F1 drivers do not. I'm pretty sure that >>Schumacher doesn't - I couldn't find the article Randy referred to but I >>am positive that there is a misunderstanding there. >There was absolutely no misunderstanding. I'll dig up the article and >quote it so you see. >>Schumacher almost certainly does not right foot brake. >What's your source for this? At least I have a legitimate source for >my comment.

Randy, Richard is right. Schumacher definitely left foot brakes. I don't have any exact quotes handy, but think about it. He came up as a go kart driver. Damon Hill is just about the last of the right foot brakers. Dave Ewing

:>Schumacher almost certainly does not right foot brake. : What's your source for this? At least I have a legitimate source for : my comment. Schumi is a kart driver (unless you drive cross legged you left foot brake in karts). He is widely admired for his trail braking technique. Now he could be doing that with heel and toe but it's going to be f**ing difficult. Damon Hill is considered unusual amongst f1 drivers in right foot braking. -- Richard G. Clegg Only the mind is waving Dept. of Mathematics (Network Control group) Uni. of York. www: http://manor.york.ac.uk/top.html

Alex Zanardi also right foot brakes (or did up through his current F1 stint, and that includes his days in go-karts and lower series, as well his first foray into F1 and then into CART). According to Racer magazine (if memory serves) he was getting pointers from Jimmy Vasser on left foot braking, as Jimmy does this. Randy

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>:>Schumacher almost certainly does not right foot brake. >: What's your source for this? At least I have a legitimate source for >: my comment. > Schumi is a kart driver (unless you drive cross legged you left foot >brake in karts). He is widely admired for his trail braking technique. >Now he could be doing that with heel and toe but it's going to be >f**ing difficult. > Damon Hill is considered unusual amongst f1 drivers in right foot >braking.

Randy Magruder http://members.home.com/rmagruder

> >> I would like to point out. Michael Schumacher RIGHT FOOT BRAKES! > Not any more He he he, ouch!!!! 8-) *Peter* 8-)

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>Alex Zanardi also right foot brakes (or did up through his current F1 >stint, and that includes his days in go-karts and lower series, as >well his first foray into F1 and then into CART). According to Racer >magazine (if memory serves) he was getting pointers from Jimmy Vasser >on left foot braking, as Jimmy does this. >Randy

Is this the same Alex Zenardi that flew thru the cork-screw at Laguna Seca when he did a no-foot brake job?

>From hearing him at a F1 track in Montreal for the past almost 7years, you >can clearly see he keeps the revs up a little into the corners when he >brakes, so he has to use both pedals at the same time, I can't imagine him >using the heel for the gas and toe for the brake. I mean he got his >experience from Karting, so that's how he learned to race a car (both feet >on both pedals). IMHO Ok now I'm impressed.. "both feet on both pedals". I've seen one foot, on both pedals... but both feet?

Right foot braking in a go-kart is a real accomplishment. No wonder he's the greatest. bob :-)

For what it's worth, in sims I left-or-right-foot-brake based on the sim in question. In SCGT and F1RS I use my left foot to brake, primarily because I need quick reflexes to deal with the shenanigans of the AI drivers. In both of those (and to a lesser extent, in Viper), 'twitch' driving seems to work reasonably well. In GPL, the only way I can drive is to be very smooth and precise. If I find myself twitching, well, soon enough I'll be shift-R'ing... I right- foot brake in GPL, because I can control the amount of braking much more precisely with my right foot. (Real life experience helps, no doubt.) That said, I still would *like* to left-brake in GPL - one of these days I'll have to learn how. --jhb

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> For what it's worth, in sims I left-or-right-foot-brake based on the sim > in question. > In SCGT and F1RS I use my left foot to brake, primarily because I need > quick reflexes to deal with the shenanigans of the AI drivers. In both > of those (and to a lesser extent, in Viper), 'twitch' driving seems to > work reasonably well. > In GPL, the only way I can drive is to be very smooth and precise. If I > find myself twitching, well, soon enough I'll be shift-R'ing... I right- > foot brake in GPL, because I can control the amount of braking much more > precisely with my right foot. (Real life experience helps, no doubt.) > That said, I still would *like* to left-brake in GPL - one of these days > I'll have to learn how.

I find it much more fun with split pedal axis control (where the brake and throttle are read independently by the sim), and to take advantage of this you obviously need to left-foot brake (otherwise you can't press both pedals at once). It does feel really nice to gradually transition between braking and accelerating (and vice-versa). I would have thought that if real-life racing drivers did use their right foot to brake they would have to be using the heel-and-toe technique so that they could smoothly transition from one state to the other - otherwise there has to be a pause while you move your foot from one pedal to the other.

Randy, i got tricked by this information myself. It was two weeks ago that I read on autorace.com that Michael Schumacher was said to brake with his right foot. This news was posted in combination of a statement of Mika Hakkinen (not sure if Mika said that exactly) Well, since i drive with only one foot I was both happy and stunned about this, although i could not really believe it to be true. Only to find out days later that he obviously does the exact opposite which is using both feet to to drive and braking with his left foot (just like anybody else in Formula 1 and in simracing). For me personally driving with one foot in simulations has become a second nature ever since ICR2 and I still continue this even with MGPRS2 and the narrow pedal stance of the TSW Formula. But most importantly one-foot driving is a major thrill. As opposed to a statement way above in this thread top times are possible using this technique. (despite the two tenths you might lose in the process of switching over to the other pedal... I know there are a few sim drivers that drive with one foot...hi to y'all. :) Well, to get to the point, according to Ferrari (think they would know this best...) Michael does brake with his left foot: [link lost in import] Posted 19/07/1999 13:08:42 Schumacher will not have an early come back with a revised F399 A Ferrari spokesman today denied stories that Michael Schumacher could make a speedy return to the***pit, using a hand-controlled accelerator fitted to the steering wheel. "The throttle on our cars is controlled electronically, so we could easily reduce the spring pressure in the throttle foot pedal," said Claudio Berro. "Michael brakes with his left foot, so there's no problem there either. The limiting factor would be the discomfort to his leg caused by the high lateral forces during cornering. But at the end of the day, what would stop him driving before he is fully fit is the difficulty in getting out of the***pit unaided in under five seconds, as required in the rules."

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> > I'm sure that most european F1 drivers do not. I'm pretty sure that > >Schumacher doesn't - I couldn't find the article Randy referred to but I > >am positive that there is a misunderstanding there. > There was absolutely no misunderstanding. I'll dig up the article and > quote it so you see. > >Schumacher almost certainly does not right foot brake. > What's your source for this? At least I have a legitimate source for > my comment. > Randy > Randy Magruder > [link lost in import]

So you should start to learn to brake with your left foot, you will gain two tenths of a second. Makes a big difference in a 60-lap race! Andre

> So you should start to learn to brake with your left foot, you will > gain two tenths of a second. Makes a big difference in a 60-lap race! Especially if it's 2 tenths per corner, rather than per lap! ;-) I imagine right-foot braking in GPL is pretty exciting - perhaps for the wrong reasons though!

I do brake with my left foot in sims, and it looks like the ITV report was inaccurate. Not the first time. Thanks for the clarification Randy

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>Randy, i got tricked by this information myself. It was two weeks ago that I >read on autorace.com that Michael Schumacher was said to brake with his >right foot. This news was posted in combination of a statement of Mika >Hakkinen (not sure if Mika said that exactly) Well, since i drive with only >one foot I was both happy and stunned about this, although i could not >really believe it to be true. Only to find out days later that he obviously >does the exact opposite which is using both feet to to drive and braking >with his left foot (just like anybody else in Formula 1 and in simracing). >For me personally driving with one foot in simulations has become a second >nature ever since ICR2 and I still continue this even with MGPRS2 and the >narrow pedal stance of the TSW Formula. But most importantly one-foot >driving is a major thrill. As opposed to a statement way above in this >thread top times are possible using this technique. (despite the two tenths >you might lose in the process of switching over to the other pedal... >I know there are a few sim drivers that drive with one foot...hi to y'all. >:) >Well, to get to the point, according to Ferrari (think they would know this >best...) Michael does brake with his left foot: >[link lost in import] >Posted 19/07/1999 13:08:42 >Schumacher will not have an early come back with a revised F399 >A Ferrari spokesman today denied stories that Michael Schumacher could make >a speedy return to the***pit, using a hand-controlled accelerator fitted >to the steering wheel. "The throttle on our cars is controlled >electronically, so we could easily reduce the spring pressure in the >throttle foot pedal," said Claudio Berro. "Michael brakes with his left >foot, so there's no problem there either. The limiting factor would be the >discomfort to his leg caused by the high lateral forces during cornering. >But at the end of the day, what would stop him driving before he is fully >fit is the difficulty in getting out of the***pit unaided in under five >seconds, as required in the rules." >> > I'm sure that most european F1 drivers do not. I'm pretty sure that >> >Schumacher doesn't - I couldn't find the article Randy referred to but I >> >am positive that there is a misunderstanding there. >> There was absolutely no misunderstanding. I'll dig up the article and >> quote it so you see. >> >Schumacher almost certainly does not right foot brake. >> What's your source for this? At least I have a legitimate source for >> my comment. >> Randy >> Randy Magruder >> [link lost in import]

Randy Magruder http://members.home.com/rmagruder

For a really exciting experience, try steering with your feet while braking with your hands! Ok, it will costs you 30 secs a lap, but it's really exciting :) Andre

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>> So you should start to learn to brake with your left foot, you will >> gain two tenths of a second. Makes a big difference in a 60-lap race! >Especially if it's 2 tenths per corner, rather than per lap! ;-) >I imagine right-foot braking in GPL is pretty exciting - perhaps for the >wrong reasons though!

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>> So you should start to learn to brake with your left foot, you will >> gain two tenths of a second. Makes a big difference in a 60-lap race! >Especially if it's 2 tenths per corner, rather than per lap! ;-) >I imagine right-foot braking in GPL is pretty exciting - perhaps for the >wrong reasons though!

Not all that exciting, actually -- just more realistic (for me, anyway). I drive a real car every day and brake with my right foot; doing so in GPL makes GPL seem more like driving a REAL car. If I autocrossed my Honda Del Sol, I'd have to brake with my right foot, so I don't see how left-foot braking in a sim can add anything to the overall racing experience. -- JB

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> >> So you should start to learn to brake with your left foot, you will > >> gain two tenths of a second. Makes a big difference in a 60-lap race! > >Especially if it's 2 tenths per corner, rather than per lap! ;-) > >I imagine right-foot braking in GPL is pretty exciting - perhaps for the > >wrong reasons though! > Not all that exciting, actually -- just more realistic (for me, > anyway). > I drive a real car every day and brake with my right foot; doing so in > GPL makes GPL seem more like driving a REAL car. If I autocrossed my > Honda Del Sol, I'd have to brake with my right foot, so I don't see > how left-foot braking in a sim can add anything to the overall racing > experience. > -- JB

Well, so do I, because If I use my left foot on the brakes while downchanging, something weird happens....:) I wish a clutch was needed in GPL, or that we had to do our own heel-toe job. At least an option! I drive GPL like I used to drive Karts: brake with left, throttle right. Mind, I do use "left-foot-braking" in my Mini in the wintertime here, but that's a different matter..... Matt, Norway -- --------------------------------- Matthew Birger Knutsen The Art of Legends; http://www.gpl.electra.no Cheek Racing Cars; http://www.cheekracing.electra.no

You're right - If you listen to the in-car sounds you will hear Michael very often brakes against full throttle in corners like Blanchimont etc. I'd guess it to be impossible to do that with right foot only :-) Cheers! John

Well not impossible if the pedals are close enough together and have a similar throw. I can brake hard in my '99 Miata while putting the throttle down for downshifting (blipping) Randy

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>>Randy, i got tricked by this information myself. It was two weeks ago that I >>read on autorace.com that Michael Schumacher was said to brake with his >>right foot. >You're right - If you listen to the in-car sounds you will hear >Michael very often brakes against full throttle in corners like >Blanchimont etc. I'd guess it to be impossible to do that with right >foot only :-) >Cheers! >John

Randy Magruder http://members.home.com/rmagruder

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>>Randy, i got tricked by this information myself. It was two weeks ago that I >>read on autorace.com that Michael Schumacher was said to brake with his >>right foot. >You're right - If you listen to the in-car sounds you will hear >Michael very often brakes against full throttle in corners like >Blanchimont etc. I'd guess it to be impossible to do that with right >foot only :-)

Some additional info (albeit circumstantial) from the man himself: today, prior to the German GP, [ATTN: *NO* SPOILER FOLLOWS - I won't mention the results.] Michael Schumacher appeared on TV for the first time since his accident. (And how happy the red baseball hat wearing populace was - "The master is speaking to us! What frabjous day, halloo-hallay!") During the interview, Schumacher mentioned an additional wound he received in the accident: a cut on his right heel. This might keep him from racing longer than the broken bones, he assumed, since it was healing slowly and the cut negatively influenced the sensitivity in his foot and - now it comes - "Especially in the right foot, the one for the throttle, you need a lot of sensitivity." He said it in German, but the translation is accurate, believe me. Therefore, if the right foot is for the throttle (and not "both pedals", or something), the left foot is for the brake. Right? C'mon, Randy, you can afford to be wrong *once*. You're usually right in almost everything regarding sim racing. (I mean it, no sarcasm.) -- Wolfgang Preiss \ E-mail copies of replies to this posting are welcome.

Thanks. But in a previous post I already conceded that the ITV report was undoubtedly wrong given the other evidence that we've seen. I only quoted what I read. I'll happily concede I was wrong, though to be fair, it would be more accurate to say that ITV's sources were wrong :) Randy Randy Magruder http://members.home.com/rmagruder

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>>> So you should start to learn to brake with your left foot, you will >>> gain two tenths of a second. Makes a big difference in a 60-lap race! >>Especially if it's 2 tenths per corner, rather than per lap! ;-) >>I imagine right-foot braking in GPL is pretty exciting - perhaps for the >>wrong reasons though! >Not all that exciting, actually -- just more realistic (for me, >anyway). >I drive a real car every day and brake with my right foot; doing so in >GPL makes GPL seem more like driving a REAL car. If I autocrossed my >Honda Del Sol, I'd have to brake with my right foot, so I don't see >how left-foot braking in a sim can add anything to the overall racing >experience.

You can left-foot brake in a del Sol, if your left foot isn't busy clutching at the time. I could see a professional autocrosser (one who cared more about winning than about not abusing his drivetrain) braking with his left foot while the right foot kept the revs up, in a corner he didn't need to downshift for. Most current wheels don't have clutch pedals, so realism for a three-pedal car is already out the door. If I'm shifting with paddles and clutching only at the start in a 1967 F1 car, what's a bit of left-boot braking going to hurt? Especially since my pedals just aren't as well-placed for right-foot braking as those in a real car. I would love to have a good three-pedal setup and a sim that made me use the clutch and heel-and-toe every downshift (and you think GPL is hard...), but we're not there yet. Chicken-and-egg problem: the sims won't require clutching until most wheels have clutch pedals, and most wheels won't have clutch pedals until most sims need them. Throw in the fact that modern race cars (which most sims try to simulate) don't use the clutch much, and I doubt it'll happen soon. -- spamgard(tm): To email me, put "geek" in your Subject line.

But this regulation wasn't there when Clay Regazzoni (or was Emerson Fittipaldi the one with the paralyzed legs) tried his comback. Jens <snip> --------------------------------------------- Remove "NOSPAM" before using my email-address

In the beginning I started with only one foot, but I was to scared about the life-span of my pedals (kicking the brake-pedal in hectic reactions) Jens --------------------------------------------- Remove "NOSPAM" before using my email-address

Only because most people are doing something doesn't mean it's the most sensible :o). /Christer, drives a manual

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> On Mon, 26 Jul 1999 15:27:23 +0200, Christer Andersson > >That doesn't make sense, Thomas :o). It would have made sense if you > >drive a manual in real life, but an automatic leaves your left foot > >free for braking??? > It makes perfect sense! Do you drive an automatic or manual? > Drivers who drive an automatic vehicle will usually use their right > foot for both braking AND accelerating!