ROTFL.

http://espn.go.com/car/irl/news/1999/990715/01352377.html The IRL just seems to love upsetting tradition, don't they? If they do put "fenders" on the cars, better let the true Indy openwheelers back into the INdy500 (and yes folks, thats CART).

Before long, an IRL car will closely resemble the recent "Pod" arcade racer. Look at why they are pushing this: sure, it's all about safety. Right. And money. Bruton Smith spelled it out - there is more advertising area on a car with fenders. Will Leo Mehl fight that? The IRL needs to keep Smith's tracks and generate more audience. I wonder why they haven't yet run a race at Bristol. That would be a thrill, but we'd need to build a 6" mesh basket over the whole track to keep stuff out of the crowd there. Let's hope that they do it. That will effectively either kill off IRL or result in it becoming a junior division of Nascar. Then CART will again be the only American open-wheel senior division. Does this sound plausible? Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

I wouldn't put it past George or Mehl. No matter what either says, they aren't concerned about tradition at all. And with IRL generating the least dollars in the highend segment of open-wheelers, they could use more "space" for advertising dollars per team. Perhaps IRL and PSC can join? But, CART is the senior, high-end, division American open-wheel series. It gets that distinction simply because its been around much longer through a variety of iterations.

Yeah, that is true. Got to remember that George is the one who said that IRL was for American drivers using American engines on "ovals". Obviously the scent of money will attract him, and unfortunately the IRL has not really caught on and needs revenue. I noticed that the Atlanta race the other night had vacant stands over probably 3/4 of the track, and the bottom half of the remaining had nobody seated (perhaps to avoid shrapnel). PSC would be a natural fit, though. Still wouldn't get a crowd at C***te or Atlanta. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

Who really gives a sh*t what the IRL does? Maybe they'll do enough stupid ***to kill themselves off completely though, so this might be a good thing. Jerry Morelock

American drivers? Hah, then explain the foreign drivers in the series. :) American engines? Hah. Did he forget about American chassis' too? :) Oh wait, only CART has American chassis's. PSC would be a natural fit, but then again thats a dish on PSC. :)

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> Yeah, that is true. Got to remember that George is the one who > said that IRL was for American drivers using American engines > on "ovals". Obviously the scent of money will attract him, and > unfortunately the IRL has not really caught on and needs revenue. I > noticed that the Atlanta race the other night had vacant stands over > probably 3/4 of the track, and the bottom half of the remaining had > nobody seated (perhaps to avoid shrapnel). > PSC would be a natural fit, though. Still wouldn't get a crowd at > C***te or Atlanta. > > I wouldn't put it past George or Mehl. No matter what either says, > they > > aren't concerned about tradition at all. And with IRL generating the > least > > dollars in the highend segment of open-wheelers, they could use > more "space" > > for advertising dollars per team. Perhaps IRL and PSC can join? > > But, CART is the senior, high-end, division American open-wheel > series. It > > gets that distinction simply because its been around much longer > through a > > variety of iterations. > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

Uhhh.... what does ROTFL mean??? Andre

Rolling On The Floor Laughing = ROTFL Jerry Morelock

well i'll be dipped....... all this time i thought it meant Really Old Toilets Flush Loudly learn something new ever' day..... <G>

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>Rolling On The Floor Laughing = ROTFL >Jerry Morelock >> Uhhh.... what does ROTFL mean??? >> Andre

series. :) Don't you remember...A.J. hand-picked Kenny Brack and Marco Greco out of sprint cars at Eldora! <G> The Aurora's American, and as far as I know, the Infiniti's developed in California. I imagine Bob Riley would take offense at that one. Granted, the R&S hasn't accomplished much, and R&S is being taken over by Reynard. Nevertheless, the R&S Mk. V is an American chassis. -J.D. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

Tony George said that Indycar raced before Bruton Smith and will race after him. Reading between the lines I guess that George is viewing the rapprochement with Champ Car bosses as in the pipeline and that the other tracks in his "stable" can sustain IRL until then. M

IRL: Insignificant, Redundant, Lackluster. -- Erik Frechette The Pits Grand Prix Legends www.theuspits.com/owheel/gpl/gpl.html

Rolling On The Floor Laughing. ROTFLMAO = ROTFL + My Ass (or Arse) Off!

With all of the principles denying every rumor, obviously something is going to take place. IRL and CART are both sort of becalmed - attendance and TV ratings are relatively poor. Heck, they won't even admit that they talk to each other about business. Right. We know they just love to get together and chat about the weather. At least George is willing to make an attempt to promote F1 here, although his new Indy road course may be somewhere between different and bizarre. It remains to be seen whether anybody can get people over here e***d about anything except Winston Cup (except most sim racers). Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

On Wed, 21 Jul 1999 17:15:03 -0500, "Chris Schletter" >American drivers? Hah, then explain the foreign drivers in the series. :) >American engines? Hah. Did he forget about American chassis' too? :) Oh >wait, only CART has American chassis's. Gurney's AAR chassis is NOT the only open-wheel Indy-style chassis designed and built in the U.S. Are you forgetting about the IRL's Riley & Scott chassis, which was designed and built by Riley & Scott at their Indianapolis facility? It doesn't get much more American than that. -- JB

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>PSC would be a natural fit, but then again thats a dish on PSC. :) >> Yeah, that is true. Got to remember that George is the one who >> said that IRL was for American drivers using American engines >> on "ovals". Obviously the scent of money will attract him, and >> unfortunately the IRL has not really caught on and needs revenue. I >> noticed that the Atlanta race the other night had vacant stands over >> probably 3/4 of the track, and the bottom half of the remaining had >> nobody seated (perhaps to avoid shrapnel). >> PSC would be a natural fit, though. Still wouldn't get a crowd at >> C***te or Atlanta. >> > I wouldn't put it past George or Mehl. No matter what either says, >> they >> > aren't concerned about tradition at all. And with IRL generating the >> least >> > dollars in the highend segment of open-wheelers, they could use >> more "space" >> > for advertising dollars per team. Perhaps IRL and PSC can join? >> > But, CART is the senior, high-end, division American open-wheel >> series. It >> > gets that distinction simply because its been around much longer >> through a >> > variety of iterations. >> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ >> Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

On Wed, 21 Jul 1999 13:20:56 -0500, "Chris Schletter" <SNIP> <END SNIP> Tony George and Leo Mehl have both gone on record as stating that they are definitely opposed to adding fenders. Tradition was one concern, but the major concern was the "kiting" issue that would potentially accompany the high-downforce, lightweight, high-performance closed-wheel chassis -- Mehl and George both cited the recent airborne Mercedes excursion at LeMans, indicating that on an oval, this would be far worse than flying tires. AJ Foyt went on record saying that Bruton Smith was "crazy" for proposing the idea of fenders. Smith, George, and Mehl met prior to last Saturday's IRL race at Atlanta to discuss the issue of fenders and further safety improvements. The meeting went well, according to my sources, and the issue of fenders has been put to rest. Keep in mind that Bruton Smith is pretty much the racing world's equivalent of P.T. Barnum at times -- Barnum's motto was, "There's a sucker born every minute." Smith knows that by making ludicrous, flamboyant statements that stir controversy, he can stir up interest and attract people's attention to those things that he has a stake in -- including the IRL. He seems to have succeeded -- look at the number of posts in this thread about the IRL that have been posted by people who loudly proclaim to dislike the IRL. If you hate it so much, why are you posting about it -- or even paying attention to it? Seems like Smith knows what he's doing, and, indeed, there is one born every minute. So somebody tell me what this has to do with the rec.autos.simulators newsgroup? If I wanted to read this kind of c**p, I would be downloading the rec.autos.sport.indy newsgroup -- or did I do that by mistake? -- John Bodin Publisher, The IRL Insider Magazine http://irlinsider.adnetweb.com/

I really kind of hope they do...or at least wait a year and let Al Unser Jr get his run in at the 500 with Treadway and show everyone who a REAL openwheel driver is! He doesn't have 265 CART starts for nothin!!! -- Kirk Lane Tempe, AZ ICQ: 28171652 BRT #187 "I read dead Russian authors volumes at a time I write everything down except what's on my mind 'Cause my greatest fear is the sucking sound And then I know I'll never get back out" -'Narcolepsy', Third Eye Blind >http://espn.go.com/car/irl/news/1999/990715/01352377.html >The IRL just seems to love upsetting tradition, don't they? If they do put >"fenders" on the cars, better let the true Indy openwheelers back into the >INdy500 (and yes folks, thats CART).

That quote came from AJ Foyt though? -- Cheers! Graeme Nash http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk ICQ# 11257824

This is not Cart's big event, it may be there big oval but not there big event... > I think the only racing series that will be killed off will the the > Championship Auto Racing Teams (CART). The IRL's big race is the Indy 500. > I've been going there for 14 of my 20 years, and, granted the attendance is > down, but not by much. There were still damn near 300,000 people there this

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> year, at an average of 60 dollars a ticket, that's a pretty big chunk of > money. Furthermore, I never saw an Indy 500 where the pole starter and the > 33rd starter were within 6 m.p.h. of each other when the CART boys were > there. And one more thing...I happened to catch CART's big race, the U.S. > 500 last weekend, and I think I saw more people at a high school football > game last year. I don't see how CART can actually make money with > attendance like that. As long as the IRL has Indy, which will be forever, > they have a better chance of survival than CART. > > Before long, an IRL car will closely resemble the recent "Pod" > > arcade racer. Look at why they are pushing this: sure, it's all about > > safety. Right. And money. Bruton Smith spelled it out - there is > > more advertising area on a car with fenders. Will Leo Mehl fight > > that? The IRL needs to keep Smith's tracks and generate more > > audience. I wonder why they haven't yet run a race at Bristol. That > > would be a thrill, but we'd need to build a 6" mesh basket over the > > whole track to keep stuff out of the crowd there. > > Let's hope that they do it. That will effectively either kill off > > IRL or result in it becoming a junior division of Nascar. Then CART > > will again be the only American open-wheel senior division. Does this > > sound plausible? > > > http://espn.go.com/car/irl/news/1999/990715/01352377.html > > > The IRL just seems to love upsetting tradition, don't they? If they > > do put > > > "fenders" on the cars, better let the true Indy openwheelers back > > into the > > > INdy500 (and yes folks, thats CART). > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > > Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

Bruton Smith speculates that the IRL will not return to C***te AJ Foyt says today, in a televised interview, that he would liketo see the two series back together. Tom Kelly, Fred Treadway and other IRL owners are already looking for additional budget to run in the unified series. The owner of Dover Downs, realizing that he would lose a race if the two series merged, has stated he hopes they do get back together for the good of open-wheel racing in the US. One race, even Indy, is not enough to base an entire series on. The fans aren't buying it and neither are the sponsors. Even the biggest TG stooge of all, Leo Mehl, is beginning to crack and speak in public about possible unification scenarios. It's just a matter of time.

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>I think the only racing series that will be killed off will the the >Championship Auto Racing Teams (CART). The IRL's big race is the Indy 500. >I've been going there for 14 of my 20 years, and, granted the attendance is >down, but not by much. There were still damn near 300,000 people there this >year, at an average of 60 dollars a ticket, that's a pretty big chunk of >money. Furthermore, I never saw an Indy 500 where the pole starter and the >33rd starter were within 6 m.p.h. of each other when the CART boys were >there. And one more thing...I happened to catch CART's big race, the U.S. >500 last weekend, and I think I saw more people at a high school football >game last year. I don't see how CART can actually make money with >attendance like that. As long as the IRL has Indy, which will be forever, >they have a better chance of survival than CART. >> Before long, an IRL car will closely resemble the recent "Pod" >> arcade racer. Look at why they are pushing this: sure, it's all about >> safety. Right. And money. Bruton Smith spelled it out - there is >> more advertising area on a car with fenders. Will Leo Mehl fight >> that? The IRL needs to keep Smith's tracks and generate more >> audience. I wonder why they haven't yet run a race at Bristol. That >> would be a thrill, but we'd need to build a 6" mesh basket over the >> whole track to keep stuff out of the crowd there. >> Let's hope that they do it. That will effectively either kill off >> IRL or result in it becoming a junior division of Nascar. Then CART >> will again be the only American open-wheel senior division. Does this >> sound plausible? >> > http://espn.go.com/car/irl/news/1999/990715/01352377.html >> > The IRL just seems to love upsetting tradition, don't they? If they >> do put >> > "fenders" on the cars, better let the true Indy openwheelers back >> into the >> > INdy500 (and yes folks, thats CART). >> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ >> Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

The IRL has the Riley & Scott Chassis, built in Indianapolis.

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> American drivers? Hah, then explain the foreign drivers in the series. :) > American engines? Hah. Did he forget about American chassis' too? :) Oh > wait, only CART has American chassis's. > PSC would be a natural fit, but then again thats a dish on PSC. :) > > Yeah, that is true. Got to remember that George is the one who > > said that IRL was for American drivers using American engines > > on "ovals". Obviously the scent of money will attract him, and > > unfortunately the IRL has not really caught on and needs revenue. I > > noticed that the Atlanta race the other night had vacant stands over > > probably 3/4 of the track, and the bottom half of the remaining had > > nobody seated (perhaps to avoid shrapnel). > > PSC would be a natural fit, though. Still wouldn't get a crowd at > > C***te or Atlanta. > > > I wouldn't put it past George or Mehl. No matter what either says, > > they > > > aren't concerned about tradition at all. And with IRL generating the > > least > > > dollars in the highend segment of open-wheelers, they could use > > more "space" > > > for advertising dollars per team. Perhaps IRL and PSC can join? > > > But, CART is the senior, high-end, division American open-wheel > > series. It > > > gets that distinction simply because its been around much longer > > through a > > > variety of iterations. > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > > Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

I think that A.J. Foyt would be a much bigger influence on any of Tony George's decisons than that money-grubbing Bruton Smith. After all, A.J. is George's Godfather, and he refers to him as "Uncle Tony".

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> On Wed, 21 Jul 1999 13:20:56 -0500, "Chris Schletter" > <SNIP> > >I wouldn't put it past George or Mehl. No matter what either says, they > >aren't concerned about tradition at all. And with IRL generating the least > >dollars in the highend segment of open-wheelers, they could use more "space" > >for advertising dollars per team. Perhaps IRL and PSC can join? > >But, CART is the senior, high-end, division American open-wheel series. It > >gets that distinction simply because its been around much longer through a > >variety of iterations. > <END SNIP> > Tony George and Leo Mehl have both gone on record as stating that they > are definitely opposed to adding fenders. Tradition was one concern, > but the major concern was the "kiting" issue that would potentially > accompany the high-downforce, lightweight, high-performance > closed-wheel chassis -- Mehl and George both cited the recent airborne > Mercedes excursion at LeMans, indicating that on an oval, this would > be far worse than flying tires. AJ Foyt went on record saying that > Bruton Smith was "crazy" for proposing the idea of fenders. > Smith, George, and Mehl met prior to last Saturday's IRL race at > Atlanta to discuss the issue of fenders and further safety > improvements. The meeting went well, according to my sources, and the > issue of fenders has been put to rest. > Keep in mind that Bruton Smith is pretty much the racing world's > equivalent of P.T. Barnum at times -- Barnum's motto was, "There's a > sucker born every minute." Smith knows that by making ludicrous, > flamboyant statements that stir controversy, he can stir up interest > and attract people's attention to those things that he has a stake in > -- including the IRL. He seems to have succeeded -- look at the > number of posts in this thread about the IRL that have been posted by > people who loudly proclaim to dislike the IRL. If you hate it so > much, why are you posting about it -- or even paying attention to it? > Seems like Smith knows what he's doing, and, indeed, there is one born > every minute. > So somebody tell me what this has to do with the rec.autos.simulators > newsgroup? If I wanted to read this kind of c**p, I would be > downloading the rec.autos.sport.indy newsgroup -- or did I do that by > mistake? > -- John Bodin > Publisher, The IRL Insider Magazine > http://irlinsider.adnetweb.com/

I like Little Al, but when was the last time he actually won a race????

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> I really kind of hope they do...or at least wait a year and let Al Unser Jr > get his run in at the 500 with Treadway and show everyone who a REAL > openwheel driver is! He doesn't have 265 CART starts for nothin!!! > -- > Kirk Lane > Tempe, AZ > ICQ: 28171652 > BRT #187 > "I read dead Russian authors volumes at a time > I write everything down except what's on my mind > 'Cause my greatest fear is the sucking sound > And then I know I'll never get back out" > -'Narcolepsy', Third Eye Blind > >http://espn.go.com/car/irl/news/1999/990715/01352377.html > >The IRL just seems to love upsetting tradition, don't they? If they do put > >"fenders" on the cars, better let the true Indy openwheelers back into the > >INdy500 (and yes folks, thats CART).

I think the only racing series that will be killed off will the the Championship Auto Racing Teams (CART). The IRL's big race is the Indy 500. I've been going there for 14 of my 20 years, and, granted the attendance is down, but not by much. There were still damn near 300,000 people there this year, at an average of 60 dollars a ticket, that's a pretty big chunk of money. Furthermore, I never saw an Indy 500 where the pole starter and the 33rd starter were within 6 m.p.h. of each other when the CART boys were there. And one more thing...I happened to catch CART's big race, the U.S. 500 last weekend, and I think I saw more people at a high school football game last year. I don't see how CART can actually make money with attendance like that. As long as the IRL has Indy, which will be forever, they have a better chance of survival than CART.

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> Before long, an IRL car will closely resemble the recent "Pod" > arcade racer. Look at why they are pushing this: sure, it's all about > safety. Right. And money. Bruton Smith spelled it out - there is > more advertising area on a car with fenders. Will Leo Mehl fight > that? The IRL needs to keep Smith's tracks and generate more > audience. I wonder why they haven't yet run a race at Bristol. That > would be a thrill, but we'd need to build a 6" mesh basket over the > whole track to keep stuff out of the crowd there. > Let's hope that they do it. That will effectively either kill off > IRL or result in it becoming a junior division of Nascar. Then CART > will again be the only American open-wheel senior division. Does this > sound plausible? > > http://espn.go.com/car/irl/news/1999/990715/01352377.html > > The IRL just seems to love upsetting tradition, don't they? If they > do put > > "fenders" on the cars, better let the true Indy openwheelers back > into the > > INdy500 (and yes folks, thats CART). > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

But in the overall, CART has more fans attending their races. They have an 'average', and if you look at the stands at a normal IRL race, you'll see more people yelling "cold drinks here!" than you will in the seats. (a little exageration there), but you get my point. The only thing keeping the IRL alive is the Indy500...Cart has an overall better attendance than IRL. -- ------------------------------------------------------------ Adam Zerlin GT Insider Webmaster www.gtinsider.com ------------------------------------------------------------ GT International Championship Organsier http;//spcargt.sports-***.com ------------------------------------------------------------ >I think the only racing series that will be killed off will the the >Championship Auto Racing Teams (CART). The IRL's big race is the Indy 500. >I've been going there for 14 of my 20 years, and, granted the attendance is >down, but not by much. There were still damn near 300,000 people there this >year, at an average of 60 dollars a ticket, that's a pretty big chunk of >money. Furthermore, I never saw an Indy 500 where the pole starter and the >33rd starter were within 6 m.p.h. of each other when the CART boys were >there. And one more thing...I happened to catch CART's big race, the U.S. >500 last weekend, and I think I saw more people at a high school football >game last year. I don't see how CART can actually make money with >attendance like that. As long as the IRL has Indy, which will be forever, >they have a better chance of survival than CART. >> Before long, an IRL car will closely resemble the recent "Pod" >> arcade racer. Look at why they are pushing this: sure, it's all about >> safety. Right. And money. Bruton Smith spelled it out - there is >> more advertising area on a car with fenders. Will Leo Mehl fight >> that? The IRL needs to keep Smith's tracks and generate more >> audience. I wonder why they haven't yet run a race at Bristol. That >> would be a thrill, but we'd need to build a 6" mesh basket over the >> whole track to keep stuff out of the crowd there. >> Let's hope that they do it. That will effectively either kill off >> IRL or result in it becoming a junior division of Nascar. Then CART >> will again be the only American open-wheel senior division. Does this >> sound plausible? >> > http://espn.go.com/car/irl/news/1999/990715/01352377.html >> > The IRL just seems to love upsetting tradition, don't they? If they >> do put >> > "fenders" on the cars, better let the true Indy openwheelers back >> into the >> > INdy500 (and yes folks, thats CART). >> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ >> Share what you know. Learn what you don't.