Nothing I have to say in this post is news to anyone with 3 IQ digits
to rub together. And I suspect it's not relevent for the vast majority
of r.a.s. regulars. But I need to get it off my chest.
Yeah yeah, I know. Join a league for clean racing. That's true, and I
will, but in the meantime I want to practice against live opponents.
There are a number of VERY basic blunders that can only be classified
as idiotic that people continually make. Some suggestions (in order of
importance):
1. DON'T try to pass ANYONE in the first two-three corners. Everyone
can see the obvious sense in this idea, but so few practice it. It's
at the point where I wish GPL had a feature to penalize/boot anyone
not following this rule, or pace laps or something.
2. If you are catching up to someone, then logically one can conclude
that they are moving slower than you are. The next deduction - and I
admit we're moving into advanced philosophy here - is that if you keep
pressing 100% [without regard for intelligent passing] you WILL rear
end them. As in real life, such an accident is 100% your fault.
2 a. Passing. This isn't "Need for Speed", though many drivers seem
unaware of this. You need to PICK your spot for a safe pass.
Surprisingly, the best way to pass is NOT to force a slower driver off
his line.
2 b. Passing. A note to the fast of foot and slow of wit: you cannot
drive directly through other cars. You must go around them.
3. Here's another novel idea. LOOK AT THE ROAD. Can't count the number
of times I've slowed a bit to avoid an accident (usually early in the
race, when you should be EXPECTING accidents) and some moron with
pedal to the metal rear-ends me. Getting annoying.
3 a. After an accident. Before wildly flailing back onto the track
with wheels spinning and control lacking, LOOK AT THE ROAD. If there
is a car coming up behind you let him pass (even the computer's smart
enough to do this when you press shift-r, so a human should be able to
manage it).
All this really boils down to is an ounce of common sense and a pinch
of common courtesy.
Joe McGinn
==========================================
Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network
[link lost in import: /***.com/]
==========================================
Etiquette for GPL online starts, passing and blocking
Joe McGinn listed the bad habits of reckless drivers in GPL pickup races, especially first-corner pile-ups. Others added advice on braking points from a standing start, holding position on lap one, who should give way, and whether blocking in the closing laps is acceptable. Most agreed weaving is unsporting but defending a line is fair, and several recommended joining a league.
Automated summary.
Gee, sounds a lot like an IGPS pre-race briefing email. :-)
--
=========================================================
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=========================================================
HA HA HA HA....well said, but probably in the wrong place. Do you really
think these kind of drivers can read, let alone find this NG? :-))
Tore
Those drivers more often than not have connection trouble - I used to be one
Quoted text (57 lines)
>HA HA HA HA....well said, but probably in the wrong place. Do you really >think these kind of drivers can read, let alone find this NG? :-)) >Tore >> Nothing I have to say in this post is news to anyone with 3 IQ digits >> to rub together. And I suspect it's not relevent for the vast majority >> of r.a.s. regulars. But I need to get it off my chest. >> Yeah yeah, I know. Join a league for clean racing. That's true, and I >> will, but in the meantime I want to practice against live opponents. >> There are a number of VERY basic blunders that can only be classified >> as idiotic that people continually make. Some suggestions (in order of >> importance): >> 1. DON'T try to pass ANYONE in the first two-three corners. Everyone >> can see the obvious sense in this idea, but so few practice it. It's >> at the point where I wish GPL had a feature to penalize/boot anyone >> not following this rule, or pace laps or something. >> 2. If you are catching up to someone, then logically one can conclude >> that they are moving slower than you are. The next deduction - and I >> admit we're moving into advanced philosophy here - is that if you keep >> pressing 100% [without regard for intelligent passing] you WILL rear >> end them. As in real life, such an accident is 100% your fault. >> 2 a. Passing. This isn't "Need for Speed", though many drivers seem >> unaware of this. You need to PICK your spot for a safe pass. >> Surprisingly, the best way to pass is NOT to force a slower driver off >> his line. >> 2 b. Passing. A note to the fast of foot and slow of wit: you cannot >> drive directly through other cars. You must go around them. >> 3. Here's another novel idea. LOOK AT THE ROAD. Can't count the number >> of times I've slowed a bit to avoid an accident (usually early in the >> race, when you should be EXPECTING accidents) and some moron with >> pedal to the metal rear-ends me. Getting annoying. >> 3 a. After an accident. Before wildly flailing back onto the track >> with wheels spinning and control lacking, LOOK AT THE ROAD. If there >> is a car coming up behind you let him pass (even the computer's smart >> enough to do this when you press shift-r, so a human should be able to >> manage it). >> All this really boils down to is an ounce of common sense and a pinch >> of common courtesy. >> Joe McGinn >> ========================================== >> Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network >> [link lost in import: /***.com/] >> ==========================================Thanks Joe. I've noticed this way too often, especially #1 and #2b.
well said Joe. Sometimes, in the heat of racing, I suffer from "Size 3 hat,
Size 13 shoe" syndrome...
<snip>
I'd like to add a point....
1bis) know where the breaking point for T1 is when starting from grid. Most
people know where it is coming out of the pits or when starting another lap,
but seem to have no grasp of where they need to brake when arriving from a
standing start. I've had to swerve on many occasion for people full on the
binders when I hadn't even thought about braking (early) for T1.
A lot of 2b's on VROC.... recently was punted 5 times in 2 laps (after
starting from pole.... you'd think I was quick enough ;-)).
Jan.
------
>Nothing I have to say in this post is news to anyone with 3 IQ digits
><snip>
Quoted text (7 lines)
>I'd like to add a point.... >1bis) know where the breaking point for T1 is when starting from grid. Most >people know where it is coming out of the pits or when starting another lap, >but seem to have no grasp of where they need to brake when arriving from a >standing start. I've had to swerve on many occasion for people full on the >binders when I hadn't even thought about braking (early) for T1.Well Joe in most like my own we get together more then just for the race
day. There are 2 or 3 times a week when everyone in the league goes out and
just has clean no pile up fun. You should really look into a league I think
you will be much happier in one.
--
Jeff Murchison Jr
HTTP://members.tripod.com/grandprixlegends
> >1. DON'T try to pass ANYONE in the first two-three corners. Everyone
> >can see the obvious sense in this idea, but so few practice it. It's
> >at the point where I wish GPL had a feature to penalize/boot anyone
> >not following this rule, or pace laps or something.
> This has gotta be the worst aspect. Just finished a Brands race, where
> I am dog-slow. Finished a lap down ... and 5th place out of 13
> drivers. The other eight quit after 3-4 pileups on a mad dash start.
> Utter and complete morons.
> Question: Are there any semi-organized [password] races where people
> have a system to deal with this, like a pace lap with no passing (and
> no running from the field either ... i.e., the pole position takes the
> role of the pace car)?
> I will probably join a league, where I understand the racing is less
> moronic, but I want to race more often than that. The conditions in
> pick-up VROC races are most discouraging.
> Joe McGinn
> ==========================================
> Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network
> [link lost in import: /***.com/]
> ==========================================
>1. DON'T try to pass ANYONE in the first two-three corners. Everyone
>can see the obvious sense in this idea, but so few practice it. It's
>at the point where I wish GPL had a feature to penalize/boot anyone
>not following this rule, or pace laps or something.
This has gotta be the worst aspect. Just finished a Brands race, where
I am dog-slow. Finished a lap down ... and 5th place out of 13
drivers. The other eight quit after 3-4 pileups on a mad dash start.
Utter and complete morons.
Question: Are there any semi-organized [password] races where people
have a system to deal with this, like a pace lap with no passing (and
no running from the field either ... i.e., the pole position takes the
role of the pace car)?
I will probably join a league, where I understand the racing is less
moronic, but I want to race more often than that. The conditions in
pick-up VROC races are most discouraging.
Joe McGinn
==========================================
Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network
[link lost in import: /***.com/]
==========================================
>Well Joe in most like my own we get together more then just for the race
>day. There are 2 or 3 times a week when everyone in the league goes out and
>just has clean no pile up fun. You should really look into a league I think
>you will be much happier in one.
I think you're right. Once I get settled into my new digs next week
I'll pick one and join.
Joe McGinn
==========================================
Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network
[link lost in import: /***.com/]
==========================================
I agree, you need to be involved with a league, if only to get to know a
bunch of people who can have fun racing together. I've been attached to a
league for over 2 years. the original league doesn't exist, but all the
members are still loosely connected. Some loser than others :-)) At least
you start to recognize a few drivers at Spyboy and know that they are going
to try to drive carefully. After a while you will know who you can race with
outside of league races. You will also know who to avoid, although most of
them are not hosting racings anyway....I remember racing at the Glen in F3
cars and someone joined in his GP car. He would drag race to each corner
then crash, shift-R and do it again on the next straight. He just never got
the hang of it. We call them "wabbits" and as a result of this behavior we
are having our first "wabbit hunt wace" this weekend. I think it's a kind of
demolition derby to blow of steam :-)) BTW some of us are racing just about
every day. We consist of a collection of people from Australia, Belgium,
England, Norway, Finnland, Sweden, Canada and USA to name a few places. The
famous Ian Lake is one of the original members. We have divided into a few
groups racing various classes F1, F2 and F3, but we hang at our own private
NG.
Tore
> >Well Joe in most like my own we get together more then just for the race
> >day. There are 2 or 3 times a week when everyone in the league goes out and
> >just has clean no pile up fun. You should really look into a league I think
Quoted text (10 lines)
> >you will be much happier in one. > I think you're right. Once I get settled into my new digs next week > I'll pick one and join. > Joe McGinn > ========================================== > Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network > [link lost in import: /***.com/] > ==========================================I think a lot of leagues have rules to deal with these problems. In the
GPML. I always brief drivers on forbidden passing places in the first lap
before the race. This is usually just a hold station order in most cases but
depends on the track.
At Monaco for instance, there is no passing at the hairpin for the first two
laps in addition to the first corner for the first two laps, allowing the
field to spread out slowly. We should remind ourselves that the guys sitting
ahead of us on the grid are usually there for a good reason and we should
respect this.
--
Mark Seery
GPML league director
http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/mark.seery/
> >1. DON'T try to pass ANYONE in the first two-three corners. Everyone
> >can see the obvious sense in this idea, but so few practice it. It's
> >at the point where I wish GPL had a feature to penalize/boot anyone
> >not following this rule, or pace laps or something.
> This has gotta be the worst aspect. Just finished a Brands race, where
> I am dog-slow. Finished a lap down ... and 5th place out of 13
> drivers. The other eight quit after 3-4 pileups on a mad dash start.
> Utter and complete morons.
> Question: Are there any semi-organized [password] races where people
> have a system to deal with this, like a pace lap with no passing (and
> no running from the field either ... i.e., the pole position takes the
> role of the pace car)?
> I will probably join a league, where I understand the racing is less
> moronic, but I want to race more often than that. The conditions in
> pick-up VROC races are most discouraging.
> Joe McGinn
> ==========================================
> Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network
> [link lost in import: /***.com/]
> ==========================================
And are asleep when the green drops.... (yeah, that means you Mark ;-))
Jan.
------
>I think a lot of leagues have rules to deal with these problems. In the
><snip>We should remind ourselves that the guys sitting
>ahead of us on the grid are usually there for a good reason
My guess is that people on VROC have thought me an idiot the same way I have
others, some of these guys are learning, which is now why I 'try' to calm
myself (i used to find that difficult - hence the "Calm Down").
Sometimes we all have a bad race, and I often go nuts should it be me who
gets involved in someone else's mistake, but unlike me, noone else seems to
defend other people, i've seen fastguys (hotlappers) simply ram guys off the
road who are slower than they, i always make it known what they did is
wrong, and I'm waiting for the day when one of them does it to me <g> i'll
send so much sh*t over that gpl chat then the damn server can cope with!
hehe
My Motto: We all make mistakes, sometimes you are calm enough to cope with
it, sometimes not, sometimes a spinning car hits you, sometimes not,
sometimes a guy rams yer rear, sometimes he uses his head. - sh*t happens.
I agree Tim. There have been incidents that pissed me off, and then
once I'd cooled down I realized it was just an honest mistake, or
maybe a mistake on both drivers parts.
But like you I get very irritated at being rear-ended. Occasionaly, in
tight quarters, this is inevitable, you're following someone and get a
touch too close. But 95% of them are the result of pure recklessness.
Either 1st lap craziness, not watching the road, or hotlappers so
impatient to pass that they ram you even when you pull over to let
them pass (this last one REALLY drives me crazy).
Joe McGinn
==========================================
Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network
[link lost in import: /***.com/]
==========================================
Shit happens, but deliberate ramming is NOT "shit happening" either. Nor is
not using your head at starts and trying to win the race on the first couple
of corners.
I agree with this, but it's a reality with all online racing games. When
I started racing on TEN (Nascar 2), I had the same problems with pick up
races. Joining a league helps a lot. Imposing a skill system would be
gould also. That way, you can only join races which correspond to your
skill. After a while (after you obtain some experience), you won't be
stuck with morons anymore: you will race with experienced drivers and
even experienced drivers make mistake from time to time. I only wish the
upcoming N3 will have some sort of ranking system.
Philster
Yeah but.. I HAVE HIT OTHER DRIVERS, and so have you, don't come back with
any bullshit of you never make mistakes, we have all done something to
another driver (whether to this day we know about it or not) that were
wrong, last person I hit was 'Rick Wetchaser' on VROC, we were racing at
rouen and coming to break for the lefthander with the bales on the right, I
got too much of a powerslide out of the previous corner, and slid accross
the track onto the grass opposite, then i slid along the grass and hit his
side as he turned into the corner, totally my fault, but with the realism of
GPL, being 100% a perfect driver is not an easy task, really the accident
could of never happened, had my wheels not been on the grass, I wouldn't of
spun, they were - i did.
or put shorter...
Again, Shit happens.
Quoted text (13 lines)
>Nothing I have to say in this post is news to anyone with 3 IQ digits >to rub together. And I suspect it's not relevent for the vast majority >of r.a.s. regulars. But I need to get it off my chest. >Yeah yeah, I know. Join a league for clean racing. That's true, and I >will, but in the meantime I want to practice against live opponents. >There are a number of VERY basic blunders that can only be classified >as idiotic that people continually make. Some suggestions (in order of >importance): >1. DON'T try to pass ANYONE in the first two-three corners. Everyone >can see the obvious sense in this idea, but so few practice it.In the F3 races, I tend to follow someone till I find the right place
to pass. A lot of the time it's the same place the slower car decides
to pull off the line to allow me to pass. What ends up happening is I
rear end him because he pulled over right into my path.
I got so POed at people that told everyone else that when they are slow
they *must* pull off the line to give the faster driver room to pass.
That statement is 100% wrong. The faster driver, If he is any good,
will find the right place to pass and pass safely. Besides that,
neither of us learn anything.. I need practice following, and the slower
car need practice being followed.
Mike
(There is no one behind you till they are beside you)
--
=========================================
Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing?
=========================================
Racing online with the help of......
Race Communications Association
http://members.xoom.com/RCA/toc.html
Holodyne Engineering
Mystic Music
(have Your !!Name/Address!! placed here)
> I got so POed at people that told everyone else that when they are slow
>they *must* pull off the line to give the faster driver room to pass.
>That statement is 100% wrong. The faster driver, If he is any good,
>will find the right place to pass and pass safely.
I agree completely. The faster driver is also more *capable* of going
off the line without losing it. Nothing I hate more than some fast
driver pushing up behind me, expecting to get off the natural line ...
sorry, but if I do that I'm toast for sure! I have enough trouble
keeping the damn thing on the road when a *am* on the line.
Joe McGinn
==========================================
Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network
[link lost in import: /***.com/]
==========================================
>1. DON'T try to pass ANYONE in the first two-three corners. Everyone
>can see the obvious sense in this idea, but so few practice it. It's
>at the point where I wish GPL had a feature to penalize/boot anyone
>not following this rule, or pace laps or something.
This one is never going to happen. I think it's too much to ask that someone
stay BEHIND someone who got a bad jump off the line - especially at someplace
like Monza, where there's a long run to T2. Although, MOST intelligent people
should be able to modify/hold their line through the first corner. I, for one,
would rather drift wide and/or slow down a bit and lose a spot, than defend my
line and put two or more people out...
Eldred
__
Put your message in a modem, and throw it in the ***-sea...
remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
Quoted text (7 lines)
>I'd like to add a point.... >1bis) know where the breaking point for T1 is when starting from grid. Most >people know where it is coming out of the pits or when starting another lap, >but seem to have no grasp of where they need to brake when arriving from a >standing start. I've had to swerve on many occasion for people full on the >binders when I hadn't even thought about braking (early) for T1.50% agreed.........there's 2 kinds of situations: a.) very slow guy (A) who
really isn't firm on the specific track being followed by a fast guy (B),
and b.) two drivers, of which one is *slightly* faster.
While in a.) it shouldn't be a big deal for the B to overtake offline due to
the overall speed-difference, in b.) we need the support of the A to help
getting passed in such a matter: B *must* follow for at least one lap to
study A, while A *must* study B, then he must use a curve where he has
learnt that he is definitely slower, approach it *slightly* slower than
usual, take the inside-line at the apex, and now: STAY on the inside-line!!
That way, B knows by the slower approach than in the previous lap, that
something unusual is going on, and can, as he sees A staying on the inside,
use his normal driving-line in the form of letting himself being carried to
the outside after the apex, thus building up enough speed to overtake
safely. I hope this is understandable, very early in Germany atm :))
Of course, there is 1 more situation, c.) 2 guys (sorry, I have yet to race
a girl besides Alison:(( ) who are equaly matched as well as safe and fair,
here we got ourselves a *real* race where it comes down to: Who makes the
first slight mistake, who can stand the pressure, who can apply the most
pressure.........this is what makes this simulation ROCK'n'RULE :))))))
cya on track, Mike, maybe you will come back to F1's one day, in fact,
having drivers of category *c*, it provides the same amount of fun as these
........hmmm...... forgot :)
Markus
Quoted text (10 lines)
>> I got so POed at people that told everyone else that when they are slow >>they *must* pull off the line to give the faster driver room to pass. >>That statement is 100% wrong. The faster driver, If he is any good, >>will find the right place to pass and pass safely. >I agree completely. The faster driver is also more *capable* of going >off the line without losing it. Nothing I hate more than some fast >driver pushing up behind me, expecting to get off the natural line ... >sorry, but if I do that I'm toast for sure! I have enough trouble >keeping the damn thing on the road when a *am* on the line.>Is it possible that people are slowing down early to avoid the carnage AHEAD of
>them...?
Very possible. I can't count the number of times I've been rammed [by
someone not watching the road] when I slow down to avoid a T1
accident.
Actually I've taken to deliberately letting the pack pass me at the
beginning now. I'm not the fastest racer so it means I have no chance
of winning. But I can usually avoid the T1/T2 carnage (although morons
speeding back on to the track while still
out of control is a problem) but you'd be amazed how often I finish in
the top three with the "slow and steady" approach.
Joe McGinn
==========================================
Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network
[link lost in import: /***.com/]
==========================================
>If you're being lapped, you should move over. If not, then it is the
>driver behind who should find a way to pass you safely. I believe
>there is a word for it, errrr, oh yeah, racing.....
Good point. And I will move over if I actually get a blue flag (as
when being lapped). The lapper needs to wait for me to find a safe
place (i.e., usually after a turn) but actually that's not a problem.
The people fast enough to lap me are usually sane, courteous drivers -
the "mad dash to win in the first half lap" types never even seem to
finish a race, let alone lap anybody.
Joe McGinn
==========================================
Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network
[link lost in import: /***.com/]
==========================================
>Of course, there is 1 more situation, c.) 2 guys (sorry, I have yet to race
>a girl besides Alison:(( ) who are equaly matched as well as safe and fair,
>here we got ourselves a *real* race where it comes down to: Who makes the
>first slight mistake, who can stand the pressure, who can apply the most
>pressure.........this is what makes this simulation ROCK'n'RULE :))))))
Good post. One more question/situation: what about when you're in the
last half-lap of the race and someone's trying to pass you for
position. Is blocking considered poor sportsmanship in this one
situation or is it expected?
Joe McGinn
==========================================
Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network
[link lost in import: /***.com/]
==========================================
>This one is never going to happen. I think it's too much to ask that someone
>stay BEHIND someone who got a bad jump off the line - especially at someplace
>like Monza, where there's a long run to T2.
Maybe so. I've taken to deliberately qualifying in last race and/or
letting the pack pass me before I start up. Since I can't take the
pole it's the only way to avoid T1/2 carnage.
Joe McGinn
==========================================
Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network
[link lost in import: /***.com/]
==========================================
Quoted text (10 lines)
> >Of course, there is 1 more situation, c.) 2 guys (sorry, I have yet to race > >a girl besides Alison:(( ) who are equaly matched as well as safe and fair, > >here we got ourselves a *real* race where it comes down to: Who makes the > >first slight mistake, who can stand the pressure, who can apply the most > >pressure.........this is what makes this simulation ROCK'n'RULE :)))))) > Good post. One more question/situation: what about when you're in the > last half-lap of the race and someone's trying to pass you for > position. Is blocking considered poor sportsmanship in this one > situation or is it expected?Blocking in any racing series is bas sportsmanship. In the last
portion (last 1/4 lap) the guy behind you is faster, If he's any good,
he will find a way around you.
Between Alan Orton, Ross MacGregor and I, coming out of the last turn
on the last lap at Silverstone, There have been many times when we would
run side by side trying to win. You will never see either of us trying
to block the other only because it's more fun to win by one inch then it
is to win nose to tail. :-)
Mike Barlow
--
=========================================
Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing?
=========================================
Racing online with the help of......
Race Communications Association
http://members.xoom.com/RCA/toc.html
Holodyne Engineering
Mystic Music
(have Your !!Name/Address!! placed here)
Quoted text (16 lines)
> >Of course, there is 1 more situation, c.) 2 guys (sorry, I have yet to race > >a girl besides Alison:(( ) who are equaly matched as well as safe and fair, > >here we got ourselves a *real* race where it comes down to: Who makes the > >first slight mistake, who can stand the pressure, who can apply the most > >pressure.........this is what makes this simulation ROCK'n'RULE :)))))) > Good post. One more question/situation: what about when you're in the > last half-lap of the race and someone's trying to pass you for > position. Is blocking considered poor sportsmanship in this one > situation or is it expected? > Joe McGinn > ========================================== > Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network > [link lost in import: /***.com/] > ==========================================Right on.
Marty
Quoted text (37 lines)
> > >Of course, there is 1 more situation, c.) 2 guys (sorry, I have yet to race > > >a girl besides Alison:(( ) who are equaly matched as well as safe and fair, > > >here we got ourselves a *real* race where it comes down to: Who makes the > > >first slight mistake, who can stand the pressure, who can apply the most > > >pressure.........this is what makes this simulation ROCK'n'RULE :)))))) > > Good post. One more question/situation: what about when you're in the > > last half-lap of the race and someone's trying to pass you for > > position. Is blocking considered poor sportsmanship in this one > > situation or is it expected? > I guess that depends on how you define blocking... If you mean weaving > infront so that the driver behind have no way of getting past with > making contact I think that very poor sportsman ship even if it's on the > last lap! > On the other hand moving over to a different line (usually to protect > the inside for a corner) I think is perfectly fine, just don't weave > back and forth! > If you're the lead driver then pick a line and stick with it, don't pick > a line on what way the driver behind seems to be taking. Take the > insideline and let the driver trying to pass try the outsideline if he > wants to pass! > Exception is at very long straights (which usually means just the > frontstraight at Monza :-) I will sometimes weave a little to make it > harder for the car behind to stay in the slipstream. I think this is > fair as long as the car behind is still some distance behind ( <3 > carlenghts), any closer and (s)he might be thinking of making a move on > you at the same time which cause some dangerous situations! > Oh and be sure to pick a line early enough so that the driver behind > doesn't get taken by surprise just as (s)he is about to overtake you on > that side! > -- > Arne MartinQuoted text (9 lines)
> Blocking in any racing series is bas sportsmanship. In the last >portion (last 1/4 lap) the guy behind you is faster, If he's any good, >he will find a way around you. > Between Alan Orton, Ross MacGregor and I, coming out of the last turn >on the last lap at Silverstone, There have been many times when we would >run side by side trying to win. You will never see either of us trying >to block the other only because it's more fun to win by one inch then it >is to win nose to tail. :-)If you do that do it early, i.e. at the start of the straight. Dont
go off the line just some meters away from the braking zone. That will
ruin the race for both drivers.
Georg
All that being said...if you are ahead (not talking about lapped traffic
either), it is YOUR position and you don't have to give it up. Blocking is
bad sportsmanship, however racing hard is not. As Mike said, if he's any
good he'll find a way around you, otherwise he can just enjoy the view of
your tail. :)
Actually the later reminds me of a F2 race, practice session, at Silverstone
where I was following Tore Hansen's gearbox all over the track....even
though I didnt go by, I enjoyed every minute of it. :) Thx Tore.
>Maybe so. I've taken to deliberately qualifying in last race and/or
>letting the pack pass me before I start up. Since I can't take the
>pole it's the only way to avoid T1/2 carnage.
That's my SOP for TEN pick-up races. It's quite astonishing how many
times you ease the gas from 20th at the green, tip-toe through the
wreckage of T1 and find yourself in the top five at the end of lap
1....
Cheers!
John
On Thu, 22 Jul 1999 15:26:52 -0400, Michael Barlow
> Blocking in any racing series is bas sportsmanship.
Tell me that after racing when it matters - second place truly is the
fastest of the losers.
Exactly - so why help him?
It's more fun to win nose to tail than to lose by an inch though. It's
also a lot more fun to win when you know the guy you're racing with
has fought tooth and nail.
Cheers!
John
On Thu, 22 Jul 1999 15:26:52 -0400, Michael Barlow
Anyone who doesn't want to win by at least a lap isn't a racer in my book
;-)
Cheers,
Richard
>That's my SOP for TEN pick-up races. It's quite astonishing how many
>times you ease the gas from 20th at the green, tip-toe through the
>wreckage of T1 and find yourself in the top five at the end of lap
>1....
I know what you mean. It's equally astonishing how many people can't
see this and insist on their mad dash from the start!
Joe McGinn
==========================================
Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network
[link lost in import: /***.com/]
==========================================
% >Is it possible that people are slowing down early to avoid the carnage AHEAD of
% >them...?
% Very possible. I can't count the number of times I've been rammed [by
% someone not watching the road] when I slow down to avoid a T1
% accident.
No, No, No! We don't want them watching the road. That is usually the
cause of the problems. They need to be watching the "traffic" in front
of the car(s) they are following. These ramming and pile-ups usually
happen because the rammer is only watching the track directly in between
them and the car ahead of them. It's a case of needing to be a "pilot",
"situational awareness". It seems that instead of being pilots, they
are being engineers (ala trains, where you just stick to the rails and
don't have to worry much about traffic).
--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
That is kind of hard to do when you can only see the closest cars around
you. Cars off in the distance that may be engaging in bold overtaking
moves destined for failure don't even register either because of bandwidth
limitations or simply because as in real life your view is obstructed by
a car in front of you, so without seeing the accident unfold the only thing
you can do is take part in the chain reaction. At the close distances
between cars at the start there simply isn't enough room to allow
for successful evasive action if the only thing you can do is react
to the immediate traffic in front of you. Unlike ordinary driving if you
do give the cars in front of you enough room to allow for a possible
escape route a competitor will surely insert himself in that space putting
you another position down. Hmm, actually that does sound like
ordinary driving now that I think about it. :-)
Perhaps, but I think a bit too much is made out of all the first lap
incidents.
In my view it is almost always a simple case of 'racing'. After all how
many people who get paid to do this on a professional basis suffer through
the very same thing each year? Considering they have far more at risk
than the average online racer (contracts, points, money, and actual bodily
harm) and far more information available to them to process (reality vs.
a good, but limited in some ways with respect to multiplayer action,
simulation) why is it so surprising or frustrating that most online races
don't have clean first laps? It happens in the real world so it should
by extension happen in GPL as well.
Perhaps GPL needs a chief steward to hand out fines, volunteers?
- George
Hehehe :))
Nice one !!
--
Ian Parker
UKGPL League
http://start.at/greenflag
--
Quoted text (10 lines)
> > No, No, No! We don't want them watching the road. That is usually the > > cause of the problems. They need to be watching the "traffic" in front > > of the car(s) they are following. > That is kind of hard to do when you can only see the closest cars around > you. Cars off in the distance that may be engaging in bold overtaking > moves destined for failure don't even register either because of bandwidth > limitations or simply because as in real life your view is obstructed by > a car in front of you, so without seeing the accident unfold the only thing > you can do is take part in the chain reaction.> You still have to give enough room to the car infront. If another car
> passes you then so be it, you can be sure he'll be caught up in an
> accident, so just take a different line and drive around when he
> crashes :-)
But if another car occupies the space I just left for myself then I
am back in the position I was trying to avoid - namely riding the
exhaust of another car. So what can I do then, continually back
off until I am at the back of the grid? Given that nearly every
online pick-up race is a sprint race (where are all the GP races?)
a good start is a clear prerequisite to finishing high up in the
order. Waiting for people to crash in front of you seems
like a risky proposition considering that they are no longer
in control of their car and apt to take the piece of road you
need to get by while trying to regain control.
As for taking another line it is only applicable at track that allows a
plethora of lines in and around the first corner. On tight tracks there
is only room for two cars side by side so taking another line will only
result in driving into the side of a competitor. So at Brands Hatch or
Mosport there is almost always a first corner incident whereas at Monza
a first corner pileup is the exception rather than the rule.
How many can you count where you crashed into a person crashing
in front of you. I have that happen all the time albeit when I am
coming around to put a lap on them. :-)
Limitations of GPL in my opinion. I seriously doubt anyone gets their
jollies participating in a big pileup anymore than you enjoy getting
punted from behind. This is certainly the case (as in real life) if you
know each and every person you race against and know you will
be racing against them again in the future. So start a good online
series and save yourself the stress of worrying about the inevitable
first lap crashes that plague the pick-up races.
- George
- George
Oh come on. Next thing you'll tell us that people shouldn't be talking
on their cell phones while driving GPL.
;-)
Seriously, that's what I meant to say, watch the traffic. Thanks for
the correction.
Joe McGinn
==========================================
Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network
[link lost in import: /***.com/]
==========================================
Given that they are more destruction derby than sprint, that's not
always the case. I just finished 3rd out of 17 in a Pro 11-lapper at
Monza. started last in the grid and was slow as all hell - but avoided
the accidents.
Joe McGinn
==========================================
Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network
[link lost in import: /***.com/]
==========================================
>That's my SOP for TEN pick-up races. It's quite astonishing how many
>times you ease the gas from 20th at the green, tip-toe through the
>wreckage of T1 and find yourself in the top five at the end of lap
>1....
Case in point ... I just finished in 3rd place out of 17, in an 11-lap
Pro race at Monza. Started last on the grid, and was probably the
slowest damn driver there. Got 3rd just by surviving to the finish
line! :-0
Joe McGinn
==========================================
Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network
[link lost in import: /***.com/]
==========================================
Quoted text (7 lines)
> What we're talking about here (well I am at least ;-) is T1 accidents. > You race the other cars until you get fairly close to T1, but when you > get there you brake much earlier than usual, but not as hard (also a > good idea to let off the throttle a little before you start braking to > give warning to the cars behind, don't want to be hit :-). If the gap to > the car infront increases let off the brake a little, to maintain a safe > distance.> But if another car occupies the space I just left for myself then I
> am back in the position I was trying to avoid - namely riding the
> exhaust of another car. So what can I do then, continually back
> off until I am at the back of the grid?
I don't mean for you to stop! Just let off slightly, brake a little
earlier or whatever to make sure you can avoid hitting the car infront
even if he brakes more than you expect.
What we're talking about here (well I am at least ;-) is T1 accidents.
You race the other cars until you get fairly close to T1, but when you
get there you brake much earlier than usual, but not as hard (also a
good idea to let off the throttle a little before you start braking to
give warning to the cars behind, don't want to be hit :-). If the gap to
the car infront increases let off the brake a little, to maintain a safe
distance.
Under braking no one will put their car in-between your car and the car
infront. A car on your side might gain a position by doing this and
manage to put his car in-between when you enter the corner, ok one
position lost, but you're unlikely to lose more than that.
And personally I find it much better to lose one or even two positions
at the start, as if I'm faster I will probably repass them again,
instead of ending up in an accident and losing say 10 seconds (and
that's if you're lucky!) to all the cars ahead even though that pesky
car behind you won't gain a position :-)
I prefer to look at it the other way, with the short races it's much
more important not to crash at the start because you don't have enough
laps to make up for the lost time of a crash!
But if there's only one line you should have no fear of being overtaken
even if you let up a little to create a gap to the car infront?
Happens from time to time, but an amazingly high amount of those
accidents can be avoided as well by being careful.
I don't say people enjoy the accidents, but I certainly think people can
do more to avoid them! It's more like they just hope they won't be
involved in an accident, and if they are they comfort themselves in that
"it was nothing I could have done to avoid it", even if they probably
could by being more careful.
--
Arne Martin
Quoted text (9 lines)
> >Given that nearly every > >online pick-up race is a sprint race (where are all the GP races?) > >a good start is a clear prerequisite to finishing high up in the > >order. > Given that they are more destruction derby than sprint, that's not > always the case. I just finished 3rd out of 17 in a Pro 11-lapper at > Monza. started last in the grid and was slow as all hell - but avoided > the accidents.Quoted text (16 lines)
>% >Is it possible that people are slowing down early to avoid the carnage >AHEAD of >% >them...? >% Very possible. I can't count the number of times I've been rammed [by >% someone not watching the road] when I slow down to avoid a T1 >% accident. >No, No, No! We don't want them watching the road. That is usually the >cause of the problems. They need to be watching the "traffic" in front >of the car(s) they are following. These ramming and pile-ups usually >happen because the rammer is only watching the track directly in between >them and the car ahead of them. It's a case of needing to be a "pilot", >"situational awareness". It seems that instead of being pilots, they >are being engineers (ala trains, where you just stick to the rails and >don't have to worry much about traffic).: I don't mean for you to stop! Just let off slightly, brake a little
: earlier or whatever to make sure you can avoid hitting the car infront
: even if he brakes more than you expect.
Surely this is a recipe for the guy behind you to hit you. "Well,
he seemed to brake a little earlier than he would normally."
--
Richard G. Clegg Only the mind is waving
Dept. of Mathematics (Network Control group) Uni. of York.
www: http://manor.york.ac.uk/top.html
> : I don't mean for you to stop! Just let off slightly, brake a little
> : earlier or whatever to make sure you can avoid hitting the car infront
> : even if he brakes more than you expect.
> Surely this is a recipe for the guy behind you to hit you. "Well,
> he seemed to brake a little earlier than he would normally."
Yes when the driver behind is one of those who prefer to leave no margin
for error, whom I'm trying to get rid of in these postings :-)
Usually I will let off the throttle a little before I start braking for
real that way the car behind will get a warning that I'm about to start
braking and if doesn't he's going to inspect my exhaust very closely :-)
Everyone can't brake as late as normal during the start of the race
anyway so I expect drivers following to be on the lookout for cars
starting to brake early...
And one thing that helps me is that since I braked early, if the car
behind seems about to hit me I can let off the brake a little so he
won't, and still slow enough to make the corner :-)
--
Arne Martin
