Groove and other questions

I have a few questions that you folks here have probably already dismissed before I started lurking here last week. In no particular order of importance (well, the first one is): 1) I can't turn on the option to display the "groove". It's greyed-out on the options/graphics screen. I don't have an approved accelerator, so I'm using the software ("none") setting. So, are those of us in the Cheap Seats allowed to see the groove, or does one have to resort to some kind of VooDoo? 2) Twitchy steering wheel. After listening to y'all here, and not having any fun with a joystick, I went out and bought a wheel. It's admittedly cheap (wheel+pedals, CompUSA, $49.99). My gripe is that if I just sit in the car, touching nothing, the image of the steering wheel makes little twitches that I'm sure are still there when moving and have GOT to be hurting my control, which isn't that good to begin with. On the calibration screen you can see the little numbers bouncing around also. It happens with both "direct" and "generic". So, is this a problem with the wheel itself, or does the sim just "do that"? 3) Frame rate vs. control. If I have most of the graphic options turned on, I see a frame rate of 9-10 fps. The picture doesn't look too bad. The lack of smmothness doesn't seem to bother me. However, although I can't really see any delay in response to steering motions, the car goes into widening oscillations that would be consistent with delayed feedback between it and my eyes. If I turn off all the options I can get a frame rate of 19-20 fps. At that rate it seems that I have much better control over the car, but I have problems seeing what's coming up so I wind up motoring cross-country fairly often. Also, it LOOKS awful! So, is it just my imagination or will low (9 fps) frame rates hurt your steering? 4) Anybody managed to get OpenGL working with ATI Rage Pro? Can I expect reasonable frame rates if I get it working, or do I have to go out and spend more money than I want to (and probably won't)? Oh... ATI Rage Pro (ATI xpert 98) w/8 MB RAM Sound (joystick) on motherboard, supposedly SB16 compatible. GPL 1.1 patch. TIA --

Dick If you want to really enjoy GPL the very least you need to do is install a Voodoo2 card. These are available very cheaply now (i have heard under $50 in the States but you'll have to ask on the NG where to buy). This alone, with your system, will get the framerates up where they belong and it will also look great. Without this you are stymied, because the frame rates you quote are impossible to drive with at any reasonable standard. We diehard GPLers try to get 36fps everywhere except on the starting grid. You will find this is quite possible at 640x480 on your system or even at 800x600 with some of the detail turned off. You can even get a clever thing called a Glide wrapper which lets you reduce the frame refresh rate in your mirrors for even better frame rates. You will also need to download a file called glide2x.dll in its 2.53 or 2.56 versions and place it in your GPL directory. Easily done with help form the NG readers. Believe me it will be well worth it to get the most out of this wonderful sim. The luxury item I would add would be an SB Live! Value at another $50 or so, but the Voodoo card is indispensible. Best wishes Tim Leighton

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> I have a few questions that you folks here have probably already > dismissed before I started lurking here last week. In no particular > order of importance (well, the first one is): > 1) I can't turn on the option to display the "groove". It's greyed-out > on the options/graphics screen. I don't have an approved accelerator, so > I'm using the software ("none") setting. So, are those of us in the > Cheap Seats allowed to see the groove, or does one have to resort to > some kind of VooDoo? > 2) Twitchy steering wheel. After listening to y'all here, and not having > any fun with a joystick, I went out and bought a wheel. It's admittedly > cheap (wheel+pedals, CompUSA, $49.99). My gripe is that if I just sit in > the car, touching nothing, the image of the steering wheel makes little > twitches that I'm sure are still there when moving and have GOT to be > hurting my control, which isn't that good to begin with. On the > calibration screen you can see the little numbers bouncing around also. > It happens with both "direct" and "generic". So, is this a problem with > the wheel itself, or does the sim just "do that"? > 3) Frame rate vs. control. If I have most of the graphic options turned > on, I see a frame rate of 9-10 fps. The picture doesn't look too bad. > The lack of smmothness doesn't seem to bother me. However, although I > can't really see any delay in response to steering motions, the car goes > into widening oscillations that would be consistent with delayed > feedback between it and my eyes. If I turn off all the options I can get > a frame rate of 19-20 fps. At that rate it seems that I have much better > control over the car, but I have problems seeing what's coming up so I > wind up motoring cross-country fairly often. Also, it LOOKS awful! So, > is it just my imagination or will low (9 fps) frame rates hurt your > steering? > 4) Anybody managed to get OpenGL working with ATI Rage Pro? Can I expect > reasonable frame rates if I get it working, or do I have to go out and > spend more money than I want to (and probably won't)? > Oh... > ATI Rage Pro (ATI xpert 98) w/8 MB RAM > Sound (joystick) on motherboard, supposedly SB16 compatible. > GPL 1.1 patch. > TIA > --

in addition (see previous post) you'll get to see the groove which is mighty helpful for racing line and braking points!!! If you did add an SB Live! Value not only would you get far better sound but the wheel twitching would disappear as well. You can of course keep your Rage Pro card with the voodoo2. So for an outlay of $100 you could have a ***in' system Tim

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> I have a few questions that you folks here have probably already > dismissed before I started lurking here last week. In no particular > order of importance (well, the first one is): > 1) I can't turn on the option to display the "groove". It's greyed-out > on the options/graphics screen. I don't have an approved accelerator, so > I'm using the software ("none") setting. So, are those of us in the > Cheap Seats allowed to see the groove, or does one have to resort to > some kind of VooDoo? > 2) Twitchy steering wheel. After listening to y'all here, and not having > any fun with a joystick, I went out and bought a wheel. It's admittedly > cheap (wheel+pedals, CompUSA, $49.99). My gripe is that if I just sit in > the car, touching nothing, the image of the steering wheel makes little > twitches that I'm sure are still there when moving and have GOT to be > hurting my control, which isn't that good to begin with. On the > calibration screen you can see the little numbers bouncing around also. > It happens with both "direct" and "generic". So, is this a problem with > the wheel itself, or does the sim just "do that"? > 3) Frame rate vs. control. If I have most of the graphic options turned > on, I see a frame rate of 9-10 fps. The picture doesn't look too bad. > The lack of smmothness doesn't seem to bother me. However, although I > can't really see any delay in response to steering motions, the car goes > into widening oscillations that would be consistent with delayed > feedback between it and my eyes. If I turn off all the options I can get > a frame rate of 19-20 fps. At that rate it seems that I have much better > control over the car, but I have problems seeing what's coming up so I > wind up motoring cross-country fairly often. Also, it LOOKS awful! So, > is it just my imagination or will low (9 fps) frame rates hurt your > steering? > 4) Anybody managed to get OpenGL working with ATI Rage Pro? Can I expect > reasonable frame rates if I get it working, or do I have to go out and > spend more money than I want to (and probably won't)? > Oh... > ATI Rage Pro (ATI xpert 98) w/8 MB RAM > Sound (joystick) on motherboard, supposedly SB16 compatible. > GPL 1.1 patch. > TIA > --

On Tue, 20 Jul 1999 10:31:19 -0400, > ATI Rage Pro (ATI xpert 98) w/8 MB RAM >1) I can't turn on the option to display the "groove". It's greyed-out Try replacing your ATI graphics card with a Voodoo3-2000. They are about $100 and will improve your *** immensely. Try this free software: http://home.att.net/~stickworks/ctfjv320.zip [address restored] It will destroy -any- ability to control the car. The $100 Voodoo3-2000 will be the single best purchase you have made for your system. You will probably be able to sustain 37fps (the maximimum) at all times during hot lapping and 90% of the time during races. Good luck! -- * rrevved at mindspring dot com * unit.26 - s.p.u.t.u.m. * http://www.cabal.net * [link lost in import]

Tim is absolutely right,***. You will not believe the difference in performance, appearance and pleasure a Voodoo 2 will give. And the sound card will be icing on cake. In about a week, you'll probably be back asking about force feedback wheels. ;-) Have fun! Kurt

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>Dick >If you want to really enjoy GPL the very least you need to do is install a >Voodoo2 card. These are available very cheaply now (i have heard under $50 >in the States but you'll have to ask on the NG where to buy). This alone, >with your system, will get the framerates up where they belong and it will >also look great. Without this you are stymied, because the frame rates you >quote are impossible to drive with at any reasonable standard. We diehard >GPLers try to get 36fps everywhere except on the starting grid. You will >find this is quite possible at 640x480 on your system or even at 800x600 >with some of the detail turned off. You can even get a clever thing called

a >Glide wrapper which lets you reduce the frame refresh rate in your mirrors >for even better frame rates. You will also need to download a file called >glide2x.dll in its 2.53 or 2.56 versions and place it in your GPL directory. >Easily done with help form the NG readers. >Believe me it will be well worth it to get the most out of this wonderful >sim. >The luxury item I would add would be an SB Live! Value at another $50 or so,

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>but the Voodoo card is indispensible. >Best wishes >Tim Leighton >> I have a few questions that you folks here have probably already >> dismissed before I started lurking here last week. In no particular >> order of importance (well, the first one is): >> 1) I can't turn on the option to display the "groove". It's greyed-out >> on the options/graphics screen. I don't have an approved accelerator, so >> I'm using the software ("none") setting. So, are those of us in the >> Cheap Seats allowed to see the groove, or does one have to resort to >> some kind of VooDoo? >> 2) Twitchy steering wheel. After listening to y'all here, and not having >> any fun with a joystick, I went out and bought a wheel. It's admittedly >> cheap (wheel+pedals, CompUSA, $49.99). My gripe is that if I just sit in >> the car, touching nothing, the image of the steering wheel makes little >> twitches that I'm sure are still there when moving and have GOT to be >> hurting my control, which isn't that good to begin with. On the >> calibration screen you can see the little numbers bouncing around also. >> It happens with both "direct" and "generic". So, is this a problem with >> the wheel itself, or does the sim just "do that"? >> 3) Frame rate vs. control. If I have most of the graphic options turned >> on, I see a frame rate of 9-10 fps. The picture doesn't look too bad. >> The lack of smmothness doesn't seem to bother me. However, although I >> can't really see any delay in response to steering motions, the car goes >> into widening oscillations that would be consistent with delayed >> feedback between it and my eyes. If I turn off all the options I can get >> a frame rate of 19-20 fps. At that rate it seems that I have much better >> control over the car, but I have problems seeing what's coming up so I >> wind up motoring cross-country fairly often. Also, it LOOKS awful! So, >> is it just my imagination or will low (9 fps) frame rates hurt your >> steering? >> 4) Anybody managed to get OpenGL working with ATI Rage Pro? Can I expect >> reasonable frame rates if I get it working, or do I have to go out and >> spend more money than I want to (and probably won't)? >> Oh... >> ATI Rage Pro (ATI xpert 98) w/8 MB RAM >> Sound (joystick) on motherboard, supposedly SB16 compatible. >> GPL 1.1 patch. >> TIA >> --

dick- some quick advice: if you can spend $50 on a cheap wheel (that compusa one is not a bad investment from what i hear), you can definately spend $50 on a voodoo2 card (the prices have gone down a great deal since the V3 came out; $50 is probably an exaggeration, but not by much. i bet you can find a used one from somebody who wants to upgrade for that much). That will do more for you than anything, and will help many other games look and work better, too. to answer your question specifically, i don't know about software rendering and the groove. but you shouldn't, either, because.....: on, I see a frame rate of 9-10 fps. The picture doesn't look too bad. The lack of smmothness doesn't seem to bother me. However, although I can't really see any delay in response to steering motions, the car goes into widening oscillations that would be consistent with delayed feedback between it and my eyes. If I turn off all the options I can get a frame rate of 19-20 fps. At that rate it seems that I have much better control over the car, but I have problems seeing what's coming up so I wind up motoring cross-country fairly often. Also, it LOOKS awful! So, is it just my imagination or will low (9 fps) frame rates hurt your steering? oh, man- no wonder you're having trouble! it's NOT your imagination. for reasons which have been discussed at length here before (probably in the FAQ which somebody posts pretty often) , you *really* need to get 36fps to have any kind of consistent car control in GPL. The short version is that the frame rate is tied to the physics rendering in such a way that you simply don't have a chance of receiving enough feedback from the game and reacting with such low refresh rates. (by the time you turn the wheel, the computer already has you 20ft. farther down the road than you thought you were) 19-20 is pretty bad, and 9 is just... awful. i have to give you lots of credit for trying, though... any fun with a joystick, I went out and bought a wheel. It's admittedly cheap (wheel+pedals, CompUSA, $49.99). My gripe is that if I just sit in the car, touching nothing, the image of the steering wheel makes little twitches that I'm sure are still there when moving and have GOT to be hurting my control, which isn't that good to begin with. getting a proper frame rate will help a great deal with your steering. any remaining jitters are usually due to dirty potentiometers in the steering wheel and noise from the soundcard's gameport. mine didn't go away completely until i got a PCI soundcard....(another $50-60 for a high quality one like the SB Live! value) but you can live with them by turning the steering calibration slider a little bit away from linear. the rest of your system specs are fine for GPL. so go get that 3D card! try to stay with it, though- if you like driving and racing, there's nothing more satisfying than GPL. good luck.

Follow everyone's advice here and get a Voo Doo2 or 3. You'll be back here thanking us. Robert Hull, Qubec

On Tue, 20 Jul 1999 17:30:54 GMT, Tim Leighton wrote in rec.autos.simulators: Tim, Mark, Kurt and Ed: Thanks a bunch for the info. I guess I was hoping to hear something like "Add this to the ini file: SetSteerWobble Off". But you all surprised me with those prices on VooDoo 2 technology. I guess I'll dash off to the Toy Store tomorrow and look again. The last time I was in the graphic cards section I was seeing stuff in the $180 - $200 range, and when I read the GPL book and all the posts in here, I assumed that was what you were talking about. So it's back to shopping mode. Shoot...I might even spring for that SB Live. I'm a cheap SOB, but not all THAT cheap. Thanks again, and some day I'll see you guys in the streets of Monaco. P.S. Sorry about the Email, Tim. I pointed-and-clicked on the wrong icon the first time around. -- I'll be the one pushing the broom over by the curb. --

On Tue, 20 Jul 1999 17:21:37 -0400, When you get it installed, let us know what you think... :) -- * rrevved at mindspring dot com * unit.26 - s.p.u.t.u.m. * http://www.cabal.net * http://www.sputum.com

1) Ime afraid so, the racing groove just is not available in software mode. 2) The twitching is probably due to your wheel being analog, analog controlers always seem to twitch a bit, digital contolers tend to be rock steady. 3) Frame rate has a huge afect on control in GPL, the higher the better. even 19-20 fps is not really enough. My advice is fit a voodoo 2 in your machine, you should easaly get max fps (36) with this, it would also cure your other 2 problems, you would beable to use the racing groove and the stearing twitching would not really mater as it only seams to have any afect at low frame rates. Time to dip in your pocket and spend some cash ime affraid. 4) Sorry cant help hear. > Oh... > ATI Rage Pro (ATI xpert 98) w/8 MB RAM > Sound (joystick) on motherboard, supposedly SB16 compatible. > GPL 1.1 patch. My System Pemtium 233MMX 66MH bus 64 MD Ram orchid riouchus Voodoo 1 SB Awe64 gold GPL 1.1 Mark London UK

Though it's rapidly disappearing as a viable solution, a $30 Rendition card (Diamond Stealth II S220) also works wonders...it vastly outperforms a $150 Matrox G200!! Now, to figure out how to rig up my monitor to work with two video cards :) -- Kirk Lane Tempe, AZ ICQ: 28171652 BRT #187 "I read dead Russian authors volumes at a time I write everything down except what's on my mind 'Cause my greatest fear is the sucking sound And then I know I'll never get back out" -'Narcolepsy', Third Eye Blind