GPL: FF Problem

Well I finally got the game. The FF effects are not what I expected but the game is cool. The problem I am having is that when I spin out or have a minor crash, my steering wheel does not center. It can be off by as many as 30 degrees. Obviously this is totally uncool, and GPL is the only game I have this problem on. As for the FF effects in general, I am somewhat disappointed. I really cannot feel the wheel lighten up as the front lose grip. I feel the weight of the car, and when I shift sometimes but nowhere near what I have been reading here. Also the effects of the track/curbing is very much reduced from what I would call normal. Maybe most people are just new at FF and are going gaga over FF in GPL? I don't know. But 36fps is cool, graphics are cool, the AI seems cool. I would be more than satisfied if the steering center did not move around. I have a week to figure it out before I return the game I guess :-( -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

Quoted text (8 lines)

> Well I finally got the game. The FF effects are not what I > expected but the game is cool. > The problem I am having is that when I spin out or have a > minor crash, my steering wheel does not center. It can be > off by as many as 30 degrees. Obviously this is totally > uncool, and GPL is the only game I have this problem > on.

Is that when you have stopped or is it after you have started moving ? The reason it doesn't centre is that after a crash or spin your wheels are problably not pointing right forward. As long as you're not moving there are no forces on the tires that would cause them to straighten up. Try this: Stop the car, in the pits, on the grass, anywhere. Turn the wheel to any angle you want and drop it. It stays at that angle, well my MS FF do, can't tell what the other wheels do. Try to do the same with a road car. No centering effects because there is no force on the wheel thats will center them. Start to move the car without holding at the wheel. It will center itself because of the toe-in. It's called realism. A minor fault is that it is harder to turn the wheel at speed that it is at standstill. I have a real problem to make this sound realistic. Again, what wheel are you using ? My MS FF wheel is giving me amazing feedback. It really starts to lighten up when my front tires lose grip, and on very banked corners the car almost drives itself. I have also because of the new feedback been able to save the most crazy situations which i would never ever manage without FF. And we are going gaga over FF in GPL because it's the best FF implementation yet. Toca2 and Viper has it's moments, but have to play second fiddle to GPL. (I have only tried the demo version of Viper) Try multiplayer on VROC, you just don't want to go to bed, you are lost. -- Olav K. Malmin remove spam when replying

Quoted text (10 lines)

>> Well I finally got the game. The FF effects are not what I >> expected but the game is cool. >> The problem I am having is that when I spin out or have a >> minor crash, my steering wheel does not center. It can be >> off by as many as 30 degrees. Obviously this is totally >> uncool, and GPL is the only game I have this problem >> on. >Is that when you have stopped or is it after you have started moving ?

After I start driving again. But as soon as you start running again the wheel should center. Realism will recenter the wheel in the proper place. If it is turned at 30 degrees when you are stopped the from tires will be turned. When you start going they will recenter. As I said F1RS and SCGT don't have this "feature". feedback. A Logitech FF. I am starting to think it's drivers are not as good as the MS wheel. Well I haven't seen it to be better yet. Sorry. -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

Quoted text (12 lines)

> >> Well I finally got the game. The FF effects are not what I > >> expected but the game is cool. > >> The problem I am having is that when I spin out or have a > >> minor crash, my steering wheel does not center. It can be > >> off by as many as 30 degrees. Obviously this is totally > >> uncool, and GPL is the only game I have this problem > >> on. > >Is that when you have stopped or is it after you have started moving ? > After I start driving again.

Hmm, sounds pretty weird. Does it center on this new angle or what ? Well, I must say that if you are impressed with the FF in SCGT and not in GPL something is VERY wrong with your GPL setup. I find the FF in SCGT pretty usesless, so i drive without, and get some more ftp. But again, it's personal preference and really cannot be argued about. Too bad, because you miss out on something great IMHO. But there are a lot of Logitech users here, so wait for that help. -- Olav K. Malmin remove spam when replying

>A Logitech FF. I am starting to think it's drivers are not as good as >the MS wheel. Go to Eric Cote's http://www.simracingmag.com/ for the Logitech FF wheel settings and setup. Oh, and go racing online on VROC, so we can humilate you on the track..... <g> Remco

Have you tried GPL with the FF turned off? I suppose it could be some sort of artifact in the Logitech setup. Also, if you are using the "realistic" damage model, you can***up your suspension with a spin or minor shunt, and wind up with the car pulling badly to one side or the other. Turn on the***pit driver's arms if they are off, and see if they also are held off center to drive a straight line. That will tell you. There have been several people comment about poor FF with GPL in this forum. In every case I have seen, some tweaking of core.ini FF values solves the whole thing, and people usually find the GPL FF pretty good after those tweaks. Look around ras for some of those FF settings. Spend the week wisely !!! Don't give up too soon, Greg. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

Quoted text (8 lines)

> Well I finally got the game. The FF effects are not what I > expected but the game is cool. > The problem I am having is that when I spin out or have a > minor crash, my steering wheel does not center. It can be > off by as many as 30 degrees. Obviously this is totally > uncool, and GPL is the only game I have this problem > on.

Maybe you have damaged your suspension on that "minor" crash ? In that case it's possible (if not likely) that you car will draw to one side. If this happens in a non damaged car i'd check the drivers and play a bit with the FF settings. Weel to me these effects feel ok... maybe except for the curbs which i think are a little too weak - but maybe those effects are not as strocg as i would expect them to be because the curbs are lower ( or smoother ) than they appear to me. BTW: I'm using a Logitech FF JOYSTICK - [ what can i say i love fligth sims too ;-) ] Well you still could disable FF in GPL and use your wheel as a non-FF one. HTH Martin

Well i don't know whether it is realistic or not (i've never driven a '67 GP car) but you _can_ explain it to some extend. At high speeds the centering forces (at least the gyroscopic effect) become stronger and make the wheel harder to turn. Regards Martin

>The problem I am having is that when I spin out or have a >minor crash, my steering wheel does not center. It can be >off by as many as 30 degrees. That's certainly not normal. What kind of wheel do you have? That's also strange, I can feel it clearly - and my Logitech isn't known for having the strongest forces. Joe McGinn ========================================== Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network [link lost in import: /***.com/] ==========================================

>After I start driving again. Do you have the latest drivers (2.5)? I have the Logitech too, and it works flawlessly in GPL. Certainly no centering problems. What control input type are you using in GPL, DirectX or Generic? You should use DirectX. Maybe try turning the strength of the forces up in the CORE.INI file. There is no doubt the GPL has the best FF effects yet. Viper is pretty good, but not in the same class. Joe McGinn ========================================== Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network [link lost in import: /***.com/] ==========================================

Quoted text (19 lines)

>>> Well I finally got the game. The FF effects are not what I >>> expected but the game is cool. >>> The problem I am having is that when I spin out or have a >>> minor crash, my steering wheel does not center. It can be >>> off by as many as 30 degrees. Obviously this is totally >>> uncool, and GPL is the only game I have this problem >>> on. >>Is that when you have stopped or is it after you have started moving ? >After I start driving again. >>The reason it doesn't centre is that after a crash or spin your wheels are >>problably not pointing right forward. As long as you're not moving there >are no >>forces on the tires that would cause them to straighten up. >But as soon as you start running again the wheel should center.

I think what you have discovered is that when you have a minor crash the steering could be somewhat damaged. If you have a major crash the wheels can fall off. If you dont like that you can drive without damage. /Magnus

greg- i know you're a regular here so you've probably seen this already, but- re the logitech wheel: make sure you download the 3.25 drivers. then go into the 'properties' menu of the controller in the control panel. turn overall effects up to about 130%. maybe turn up the damping up as well (i have mine at about 120%). make sure the auto centering box is unchecked. you can also go into the core.ini file and turn up some of the effects. but make sure you do the overall effects thing via the control panel- it makes a huge difference. let us know if it works. when it does, the FF is quite good (definately better than viper IMO). mark

minor crash, my steering wheel does not center. It can be off by as many as 30 degrees. Obviously this is totally uncool, and GPL is the only game I have this problem on. ok, i just experienced something like this as well with my logitech wheel, and found out that it goes away completely once you start moving again. but it's disconcerting when you're just sitting there, and while you're trying to get going again. weird. but it doesn't seem to happen all of the time.... anyway, try the settings people have been suggesting and see what happens. oh, yeah- and turn the forces up to 150%, not 130 like i said earlier...

This happens on my Logitech wheel to, and I thinks it perfectly normal. But I think there is a bug in GPL, because the driver arms is still centerd when when the FF steering wheel is of center. I dont know if you are old enough, but next time when you are drivning a car think of this. Imagine that you have a minor chrash and hit one of your front wheels rather hard, so that you will get a really bad toe-in. After that you continoue to drive again, and what do you think have happen to your wheel? I can bet 100$ that it doesnt center any longer.... I have done this myself lots of times in the rally-forests, so I know what happens to the wheel when when you damage your front suspension. /M Lindqvist

>Well i don't know whether it is realistic or not (i've never driven a '67 GP car) >but you _can_ explain it to some extend. >At high speeds the centering forces (at least the gyroscopic effect) become >stronger and make the wheel harder to turn. Which is a fantastic effect IMO - finally the car feels like it has some stability at speed. Joe McGinn ========================================== Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network [link lost in import: /***.com/] ==========================================

>Hmm, sounds pretty weird. Does it center on this new angle or what ? Yep. I drive straight down the track with the wheel rotated at some weird angle. I never said the FF in SCGT was better than GPL, just that I don't have centering problems after spinning out/crashing. -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

>>A Logitech FF. I am starting to think it's drivers are not as good as >>the MS wheel. >Go to Eric Cote's http://www.simracingmag.com/ for the Logitech FF >wheel settings and setup. Oh, and go racing online on VROC, so we >can humilate you on the track..... <g> Yeah no doubt... But I will start practicing. -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

Quoted text (7 lines)

>Have you tried GPL with the FF turned off? I suppose it could be some >sort of artifact in the Logitech setup. Also, if you are using >the "realistic" damage model, you can***up your suspension with a >spin or minor shunt, and wind up with the car pulling badly to one side >or the other. Turn on the***pit driver's arms if they are off, and >see if they also are held off center to drive a straight line. That >will tell you.

My first reaction was that it was the damage. If so it would be pretty cool. I will turn the arms back on and check it out. I'll check this too. Thanks. Well I am doing another install and updating my Logitech drivers. We will see! Allot of good ideas! My thanks to everyone who responded. It is appreciated! -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

>You're wrong, there is doubt! >IMO the FF in GPL is not better than Viper's. It is different because the >cars handle different, but not better. I can't agree. Vipers FF is limited to wheel grip and lightness when the car lifts. You can't feel the weight of the car shifting around as you can in GPL. I'm not saying Viper is poor, they were #1 for a while, and their implementation is quite good. Joe McGinn ========================================== Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network [link lost in import: /***.com/] ==========================================

OK I think I have everything going now. I set the damage to NONE and have not had the problems which I described. Also I am starting to get awesome FF effects with my Logitech wheel by setting the latency in core.ini to 00.0000 instead of 00.0085. It made a huge difference. You can feel the weight of the car move back & forth under heavy breaking and you can feel the fronts loosen up as they lose grip. Pretty cool. Also a friend told me to increase the volume for my tire squeal. Where exactly is this done? -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

Joe schrieb in Nachricht You're wrong, there is doubt! IMO the FF in GPL is not better than Viper's. It is different because the cars handle different, but not better. CU Zolli

Hi Greg, I knew you would finally crack and get GPL.. <G> Regards the tire squeal, just unpack the SOUND.DAT file, locted in the gpl\sound\ directory and use a simple sound editing program, like the one that comes with windows, called: Sound Recorder, and adjust the volume level of the SKID.WAV file, up a few decibels.. :) Note: You don't need to repack any changed WAV files back into the original SOUND.DAT, just copy the WAV file in question, into the: gpl\sound\ directory and GPL will pick it up from there, rather than use the sound that is in the data file.. Makes sound editing, a whole lot simpler... :) See you on-line at VROC soon.!! Cheers, Ron

> >Hmm, sounds pretty weird. Does it center on this new angle or what ? > Yep. I drive straight down the track with the wheel rotated at > some weird angle. Sounds like many others here have stated already: Damage. -- Olav K. Malmin remove spam when replying

You can download my Environmental sounds for GPL with a better tire squeal (138 kb). http://w1.111.telia.com/~u11103812/GPLSoundv1_1a.zip /M Lindqvist

>Hi Greg, >I knew you would finally crack and get GPL.. <G> Well it took superb FF effects to make me crack :-) After all I have a $200 wheel and no games which really take advantage of it. Now GPL does... Thanks, I'm looking into it. Also, what is the deal with AI strength? It is set by the length of the race I select? I expected the usual papy opponant strength of some % like N2 and ICR2. Thanks! -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com >See you on-line at VROC soon.!! >Cheers, >Ron >> OK I think I have everything going now. I set the damage to >> NONE and have not had the problems which I described. >> Also I am starting to get awesome FF effects with my >> Logitech wheel by setting the latency in core.ini to >> 00.0000 instead of 00.0085. It made a huge difference. >> You can feel the weight of the car move back & forth >> under heavy breaking and you can feel the fronts >> loosen up as they lose grip. Pretty cool. >> Also a friend told me to increase the volume for my >> tire squeal. Where exactly is this done?