Camera locations.....Editing.

Would somebody who has the skill (and editor to do so) be interested in doing a set of realistically-located camera locations for each circuit? Or is there an editor readily available that a monkey (me!) can use? I'd like to see a selection (either TV1 or TV2) based on the locations of the various stands and structures that were available at each circuit, rather than fantasy locations from blimps and skyhooks! For example, there are some stands at Mosport which may have been used by marshalls but which would be realistic locations for cameras. Ditto Zandvoort and most of the other circuits. Anyway....if you can help I'd appreciate it. -- Regards, Bruce. ------------------------------ Web Site:- http://come.to/grandprix3 --------------------------------------------------------------------

On Sat, 17 Jul 1999 16:55:48 +1000, "Bruce Kennewell" >Would somebody who has the skill (and editor to do so) be interested in >doing a set of realistically-located camera locations for each circuit? Or >is there an editor readily available that a monkey (me!) can use? There is an editor at http://gpl.gamestats.com/gpledit/ made by Paul Hoad. It's fairly easy to use once you learn how the changes affect the cameras. It takes time, though. I've made new camera settings for most of the tracks but these are mostly those fantasy locations. But they look great! :) However, I would be interested in doing realistic camera settings, too. Actually, I think I'll have a look today and see what I can do. But, try the editor yourself and if you have questions just ask me! As I said I'll have a look. You can download my camera settings from http://www.kolumbus.fi/ghuttu/ -- Greger Huttu

Thank you Greger...much obliged. I'll have a look at Paul Hoad's editor thing. > On Sat, 17 Jul 1999 16:55:48 +1000, "Bruce Kennewell" > >Would somebody who has the skill (and editor to do so) be interested in > >doing a set of realistically-located camera locations for each circuit? Or

Quoted text (29 lines)

> >is there an editor readily available that a monkey (me!) can use? > There is an editor at http://gpl.gamestats.com/gpledit/ made by Paul > Hoad. It's fairly easy to use once you learn how the changes affect > the cameras. It takes time, though. > >I'd like to see a selection (either TV1 or TV2) based on the locations of > >the various stands and structures that were available at each circuit, > >rather than fantasy locations from blimps and skyhooks! > I've made new camera settings for most of the tracks but these are > mostly those fantasy locations. But they look great! :) > However, I would be interested in doing realistic camera settings, > too. Actually, I think I'll have a look today and see what I can do. > But, try the editor yourself and if you have questions just ask me! > >For example, there are some stands at Mosport which may have been used by > >marshalls but which would be realistic locations for cameras. Ditto > >Zandvoort and most of the other circuits. > >Anyway....if you can help I'd appreciate it. > As I said I'll have a look. You can download my camera settings from > http://www.kolumbus.fi/ghuttu/ > -- > Greger Huttu

A suggestion: what about a TV1 or TV2 set of views designed to simulate a real world spectator view? ie, cameras placed in grandstands and behind the fence at ground level. Setting them up with a wide angle and just panning with no zoom would add to the effect. Or what about a single camera positioned to give a view of a large section of track? Similar to the pit lane view but more interesting. Mark Croasdale

Quoted text (41 lines)

>Thank you Greger...much obliged. >I'll have a look at Paul Hoad's editor thing. >> On Sat, 17 Jul 1999 16:55:48 +1000, "Bruce Kennewell" >> >Would somebody who has the skill (and editor to do so) be interested in >> >doing a set of realistically-located camera locations for each circuit? >Or >> >is there an editor readily available that a monkey (me!) can use? >> There is an editor at http://gpl.gamestats.com/gpledit/ made by Paul >> Hoad. It's fairly easy to use once you learn how the changes affect >> the cameras. It takes time, though. >> >I'd like to see a selection (either TV1 or TV2) based on the locations of >> >the various stands and structures that were available at each circuit, >> >rather than fantasy locations from blimps and skyhooks! >> I've made new camera settings for most of the tracks but these are >> mostly those fantasy locations. But they look great! :) >> However, I would be interested in doing realistic camera settings, >> too. Actually, I think I'll have a look today and see what I can do. >> But, try the editor yourself and if you have questions just ask me! >> >For example, there are some stands at Mosport which may have been used by >> >marshalls but which would be realistic locations for cameras. Ditto >> >Zandvoort and most of the other circuits. >> >Anyway....if you can help I'd appreciate it. >> As I said I'll have a look. You can download my camera settings from >> http://www.kolumbus.fi/ghuttu/ >> -- >> Greger Huttu

On Sat, 17 Jul 1999 15:57:27 +0100, "Mark Croasdale" >A suggestion: what about a TV1 or TV2 set of views designed to simulate = >a real world spectator view? ie, cameras placed in grandstands and = >behind the fence at ground level. Setting them up with a wide angle and = >just panning with no zoom would add to the effect. Mark, have you downloaded my camera settings? There are many cameras positioned behind fences, in grandstands etc. Try them and give me your comments. That wide angle with panning / no zoom sounds interesting. I'll give it a try. They work sometimes, but usually there are some graphic bugs visible when you do these kind of cameras and I try to avoid that as much as possible. But true, they look very spectacular when there are no graphic bugs visible. URL to my page: http://www.kolumbus.fi/ghuttu/ -- Greger Huttu

Good suggestion Mark...particularly the first one. A suggestion: what about a TV1 or TV2 set of views designed to simulate a real world spectator view? ie, cameras placed in grandstands and behind the fence at ground level. Setting them up with a wide angle and just panning with no zoom would add to the effect. Or what about a single camera positioned to give a view of a large section of track? Similar to the pit lane view but more interesting. Mark Croasdale

Quoted text (19 lines)

>Thank you Greger...much obliged. >I'll have a look at Paul Hoad's editor thing. >> On Sat, 17 Jul 1999 16:55:48 +1000, "Bruce Kennewell" >> >Would somebody who has the skill (and editor to do so) be interested in >> >doing a set of realistically-located camera locations for each circuit? >Or >> >is there an editor readily available that a monkey (me!) can use? >> There is an editor at http://gpl.gamestats.com/gpledit/ made by Paul >> Hoad. It's fairly easy to use once you learn how the changes affect >> the cameras. It takes time, though. >> >I'd like to see a selection (either TV1 or TV2) based on the locations

of

Quoted text (12 lines)

>> >the various stands and structures that were available at each circuit, >> >rather than fantasy locations from blimps and skyhooks! >> I've made new camera settings for most of the tracks but these are >> mostly those fantasy locations. But they look great! :) >> However, I would be interested in doing realistic camera settings, >> too. Actually, I think I'll have a look today and see what I can do. >> But, try the editor yourself and if you have questions just ask me! >> >For example, there are some stands at Mosport which may have been used

by

Quoted text (10 lines)

>> >marshalls but which would be realistic locations for cameras. Ditto >> >Zandvoort and most of the other circuits. >> >Anyway....if you can help I'd appreciate it. >> As I said I'll have a look. You can download my camera settings from >> http://www.kolumbus.fi/ghuttu/ >> -- >> Greger Huttu

I'm gonna give that a go too, i'll e-mail you if i manage a decent set of cams

Greger Huttu schrieb:

Quoted text (14 lines)

> On Sat, 17 Jul 1999 16:55:48 +1000, "Bruce Kennewell" > >Would somebody who has the skill (and editor to do so) be interested in > >doing a set of realistically-located camera locations for each circuit? Or > >is there an editor readily available that a monkey (me!) can use? > There is an editor at http://gpl.gamestats.com/gpledit/ made by Paul > Hoad. It's fairly easy to use once you learn how the changes affect > the cameras. It takes time, though. > >I'd like to see a selection (either TV1 or TV2) based on the locations of > >the various stands and structures that were available at each circuit, > >rather than fantasy locations from blimps and skyhooks!

What do you mean? Blimp cams are not exactly fantasy cams, I think.Maybe you would like to check out my cam files, they are up at the US PITS web site. Let me know what you think about them. I *am* interested in doing cams that use no zoom and are located at the historic spectator areas, but you won't find them in my cam scripts, yet. I hope I find the time to do some. -Thorsten Rueter

Thorsten, I wasn't slighting your efforts. Sorry if that was the inference. I simply meant camera locations as applicable to the time period.........and as far as I'm aware no blimps or helicopters (apart from Frankenheimers camera platforms in "Grand Prix") were used as camera locations for any normal film or television "footage". I'd just like to see a selection of camera locations as seen through the eyes of a cameraman, official or spectator of the period depicted. I much prefer long, wide-angle, panning views, because it replicates what we see, rather than zooms and fixed-position shots. It's just a personal preference and I certainly don't expect everyone to feel the same.

Quoted text (7 lines)

> Greger Huttu schrieb: > > On Sat, 17 Jul 1999 16:55:48 +1000, "Bruce Kennewell" > > >Would somebody who has the skill (and editor to do so) be interested in > > >doing a set of realistically-located camera locations for each circuit?

Or

Quoted text (7 lines)

> > >is there an editor readily available that a monkey (me!) can use? > > There is an editor at http://gpl.gamestats.com/gpledit/ made by Paul > > Hoad. It's fairly easy to use once you learn how the changes affect > > the cameras. It takes time, though. > > >I'd like to see a selection (either TV1 or TV2) based on the locations

of > > >the various stands and structures that were available at each circuit, > > >rather than fantasy locations from blimps and skyhooks! > What do you mean? Blimp cams are not exactly fantasy cams, I think.Maybe you

Quoted text (7 lines)

> would like to check out my cam files, they are up at the > US PITS web site. Let me know what you think about them. > I *am* interested in doing cams that use no zoom and are located > at the historic spectator areas, but you won't find them in my cam > scripts, yet. I hope I find the time to do some. > -Thorsten Rueter

I'm working on a set of cameras like this for Kyalami at the moment. Hopefully I'll have time to finish them this week. -- Cheers! Graeme Nash http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk ICQ# 11257824

You did not give the impression of slighting my efforts, at all. (And even if you did: hey, I can take critizism :) Concerning the 'blimp and heli cams': blimp cameras were used in that period. In fact, they were crucial in broadcasting the races at the Ring. GPL's Ring has more than a hundred TV cams, in reality they usually only had around 50+ cams and relied *heavily* on the blimp. Heli cameras I think are indeed an 'invention' of Mr. Frankenheimer. Spectator areas: I remember talking to one of the Papyrus developers (the now ex-Papyrus Mike Lescault) during the creation of GPL and I said to him how cool it was if they including non-zooming cameras put at spectator areas in addition to the TV cams. He said that they planned to do so, anyway! Unfortunately we don't see them in the final product. One problem in implementing realistic spectator area cameras in the GPL replay system is that large areas of the track wouldn't be covered due to missing areas on some of the tracks. BTW. if you check out my Nurburgring cam file you will see *some* 'historically correct' cameras: the TV2 at the hump before the Flugplatz right hander, the TV1 that shows the approach up to the Karussell or the TV2 at the Bruennchen... But they do use a zoom or are fixed. To get really 'historical' one should not use a zoom at all, as the cameras in the sixties had no autozoom or autofocus. (That's why cars in footage from the sixties seem to drive faster than cars from the nineties :) Finally, if you want to try out Paul Hoad's editor be sure to get the little FAQ that Edwin Solheim put on his website 'The Paddock': http://home.c2i.net/thepaddock/ This will prevent some headaches ;) -Thorsten Rueter Bruce Kennewell schrieb:

Great, Graeme! Could I ask you please to e-mail me when the job is completed? > >I'd just like to see a selection of camera locations as seen through the > >eyes of a cameraman, official or spectator of the period depicted. I much > >prefer long, wide-angle, panning views, because it replicates what we see,

Quoted text (13 lines)

> >rather than zooms and fixed-position shots. > I'm working on a set of cameras like this for Kyalami at the moment. > Hopefully I'll have time to finish them this week. > -- > Cheers! > Graeme Nash > http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk > ICQ# 11257824

Thanks Thorsten, your information is most helpful. I didn't realise that the 'Ring was televised at all, believing that it was too difficult (or costly!). Who provided the blimp....was it Goodyear or a German company?

Oops, sorry, I was handing out some misinformation with my last post. While I was trying to look up the sponsor of the blimp I found that there was no blimp used for the coverage of the '67 GP. They *did* use a heli cam! Comments on the quality of the pictures provided by the heli were very positive in the German motoring press. The coverage of the Ring race a costly event? No doubt, but an awful lot of people were helping out without payment. Most of all, the German army who provided manpower and generators. -Thorsten Rueter Bruce Kennewell schrieb:

The information that you have given regarding the 'Ring is most interesting. Is this in the form of a publication or available on the 'net anywhere?

The information regarding the '67 race broadcasting comes from a '67 German auto magazine "Auto, Motor und Sport". And yes, you can find this info on the net! KOTR has put several "Auto, Motor und Sport" articles on his website. Unfortunately, they are in German. If you're still interested, here's the link: [link lost in import] Check out the Nurburgring article in the 'History' section. -Thorsten Rueter Bruce Kennewell schrieb:

Thanks, Thorsten. Now I'll need to go to "Babelfish" for the translation, I suppose! :o)

Quoted text (14 lines)

> Would somebody who has the skill (and editor to do so) be interested in > doing a set of realistically-located camera locations for each circuit? Or > is there an editor readily available that a monkey (me!) can use? > I'd like to see a selection (either TV1 or TV2) based on the locations of > the various stands and structures that were available at each circuit, > rather than fantasy locations from blimps and skyhooks! > For example, there are some stands at Mosport which may have been used by > marshalls but which would be realistic locations for cameras. Ditto > Zandvoort and most of the other circuits. > Anyway....if you can help I'd appreciate it. > --

I've made a complete set of camera positions for the ring. They might not be entirely realistic, but better than the original ones IMO If nothing else they have more variety with *helicopter/blimp cameras (which in real-life is the only sensible way of covering the entire ring...) *curbcams (maybe not realistic for 67, but very spectacular :-) *More zoomed out views more simulating spectator views. You can check out some screenshots from the new cameras at: http://gpl.gamestats.com/amtracks/nurburgring/nurburgring2.html or download them from: http://gpl.gamestats.com/amtracks/ -- Arne Martin

Thanks Arne......I'll give them a try. > > Would somebody who has the skill (and editor to do so) be interested in > > doing a set of realistically-located camera locations for each circuit? Or > > is there an editor readily available that a monkey (me!) can use? > > I'd like to see a selection (either TV1 or TV2) based on the locations of > > the various stands and structures that were available at each circuit, > > rather than fantasy locations from blimps and skyhooks! > > For example, there are some stands at Mosport which may have been used by

Quoted text (22 lines)

> > marshalls but which would be realistic locations for cameras. Ditto > > Zandvoort and most of the other circuits. > > Anyway....if you can help I'd appreciate it. > > -- > I've made a complete set of camera positions for the ring. They might > not be entirely realistic, but better than the original ones IMO > If nothing else they have more variety with > *helicopter/blimp cameras (which in real-life is the only sensible way > of covering the entire ring...) > *curbcams (maybe not realistic for 67, but very spectacular :-) > *More zoomed out views more simulating spectator views. > You can check out some screenshots from the new cameras at: > http://gpl.gamestats.com/amtracks/nurburgring/nurburgring2.html > or download them from: > http://gpl.gamestats.com/amtracks/ > -- > Arne Martin