GPL online Quiters

I know I've complained about this before, but I feel it needs to be restated. There continue to be way to many people who quit online GPL races just because they aren't in the hunt for the lead. I'm not talking about bad connections, or people who quit because they are playing with full realism (i.e., a crash and they're out). I was just in an 18-driver Monza race (which was great) and a FULL third of the drivers quite the race because they were behind. I watched the replay, and every single one of them quit after a crash or spin. This is really annoying, and also makes it hard for new drivers to learn online racing. If you spin out or otherwise lose the lead, you are giving me (and other slow pokes like me) someone to race against. In this race, even with 18 drivers, I might as well have been doing hotlaps. Only two cars passed me - everyone I passed quit. I understand about bad connections and people who want to play realistically. But otherwise, if you don't intend on completing a full race - pardon my French here -***off! Joe McGinn ========================================== Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network [link lost in import: /***.com/] ==========================================

agree with some of it... disagree with other bit's of it, it happens, get used to it, either that or host a small race of your own like I do, less quitters in small races. Only reason I really race on VROC (mainly) is to test for leagues, if there's something screwed in my setup, I OFTEN pull over and quit, yes - that's right, I said QUIT. If a race has gone bad for a person, why can't they quit and look for a fresh race on VROC? Tim "Quits Sometimes" Wheatley

i agree...

I totally agree I host allot of races on VROC with my remote server that has a full T1 connection (S.Remote in Vroc server list). I will get a full field out there but when the races is over I am lucky if there are 6 left racing. Watching the replay proves that they just quit like Joe said. This makes me think twice about hosting races for everyone when they only want to play if they can win or fight for the lead. Could you imagine watching a race on TV and seeing guys just pull it into the pits because they knew they couldn't win...... Please if you join a race stay until the end you never know what might happen. -- Jeff Murchison Jr HTTP://members.tripod.com/grandprixlegends > > I know I've complained about this before, but I feel it needs to be > > restated. There continue to be way to many people who quit online GPL > > races just because they aren't in the hunt for the lead. I'm not > > talking about bad connections, or people who quit because they are > > playing with full realism (i.e., a crash and they're out). > > I was just in an 18-driver Monza race (which was great) and a FULL > > third of the drivers quite the race because they were behind. I > > watched the replay, and every single one of them quit after a crash or > > spin. > > This is really annoying, and also makes it hard for new drivers to > > learn online racing. If you spin out or otherwise lose the lead, you > > are giving me (and other slow pokes like me) someone to race against. > > In this race, even with 18 drivers, I might as well have been doing > > hotlaps. Only two cars passed me - everyone I passed quit. > > I understand about bad connections and people who want to play > > realistically. But otherwise, if you don't intend on completing a full > > race - pardon my French here -***off! > > Joe McGinn > i agree...

I suspect that most of these quitters think of GPL as nothing more then a game. In Q2, or any other *** and***game, you can get killed and dematerialize automatically. Since when you get "killed" or "injured" in GPL you can not automatically dematerialize, what's the point in continuing? Also add the fact that you can jump right in to another "game" and start all over again in just 2 or 3 seconds. Pick up races will be full of these people. In fact, any online game will be full of these. Probably the best way to race online and get the most out of it is to join an online racing league. Here, if you crash and have the option to "Shift-R", then you will be ahead of a lot of drivers by the end of the race, and have a chance to be ahead of a lot of drivers at the end of the season. Not to mention the other benefits such as "safer drivers". just my opinion, Mike Barlow

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> I know I've complained about this before, but I feel it needs to be > restated. There continue to be way to many people who quit online GPL > races just because they aren't in the hunt for the lead. I'm not > talking about bad connections, or people who quit because they are > playing with full realism (i.e., a crash and they're out). > I was just in an 18-driver Monza race (which was great) and a FULL > third of the drivers quite the race because they were behind. I > watched the replay, and every single one of them quit after a crash or > spin. > This is really annoying, and also makes it hard for new drivers to > learn online racing. If you spin out or otherwise lose the lead, you > are giving me (and other slow pokes like me) someone to race against. > In this race, even with 18 drivers, I might as well have been doing > hotlaps. Only two cars passed me - everyone I passed quit. > I understand about bad connections and people who want to play > realistically. But otherwise, if you don't intend on completing a full > race - pardon my French here -***off! > Joe McGinn > ========================================== > Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network > [link lost in import: /***.com/] > ==========================================

-- ========================================= Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing? ========================================= Member of R.O.R. 1999 http://w3.ime.net/~marknjess/ror.html ========================================= Racing online with the help of...... Mark Seery ***sports [link lost in import] Sim Racing Mag http://www.simracingmag.com/ Race Communications Association http://members.xoom.com/RCA/toc.html Holodyne Engineering Mystic Music (have Your !!Name/Address!! placed here) mikeba.vcf < 1K Download

C'mon, you can't really expect people to stick around if they're not enjoying themselves. I won't quit just because I'm losing, but if there's too many accidents that just sucks all the fun out of it and I'd rather just move on to another race. In real racing a spin or a crash usually eliminates you anyway, that's why just keeping the car on the track is so much more important than being fast. And if you think that winning with no one left on the track doesn't count, then you're really being too *** yourself. Besides, what's the point? You just want these people to stay in the race so you can lap them? Big deal. Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com/'s Discussion Network The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!

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>> I know I've complained about this before, but I feel it needs to be >> restated. There continue to be way to many people who quit online GPL >> races just because they aren't in the hunt for the lead. I'm not >> talking about bad connections, or people who quit because they are >> playing with full realism (i.e., a crash and they're out). >> Joe McGinn >i agree...

I also agree. It seems that alot of GPL Online acers suffer from a sort of primadona complex: if they can't place 1st, then why bother continuing. Hey, we all like to win,but, racing for ANY position is fun and challenging.

>I totally agree I host allot of races on VROC with my remote server that has >a full T1 connection (S.Remote in Vroc server list). I will get a full field

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>out there but when the races is over I am lucky if there are 6 left racing. >Watching the replay proves that they just quit like Joe said. This makes me >think twice about hosting races for everyone when they only want to play if >they can win or fight for the lead. Could you imagine watching a race on TV >and seeing guys just pull it into the pits because they knew they couldn't >win...... >Please if you join a race stay until the end you never know what might >happen. >-- >Jeff Murchison Jr

Jeff, I usually try to stay until the end except for 2 things: 1-It's a free for all. 2-Disconnected from the server. Joel Willstein

I would add one more Jeff: 3- You're driving very poorly that day It's better to disconnect rather than risk taking someone off.

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> >I totally agree I host allot of races on VROC with my remote server that > has > >a full T1 connection (S.Remote in Vroc server list). I will get a full > field > >out there but when the races is over I am lucky if there are 6 left racing. > >Watching the replay proves that they just quit like Joe said. This makes me > >think twice about hosting races for everyone when they only want to play if > >they can win or fight for the lead. Could you imagine watching a race on TV > >and seeing guys just pull it into the pits because they knew they couldn't > >win...... > >Please if you join a race stay until the end you never know what might > >happen. > >-- > >Jeff Murchison Jr > Jeff, > I usually try to stay until the end except for 2 things: > 1-It's a free for all. > 2-Disconnected from the server. > Joel Willstein

I agree there are some times when it is better to leave then stay. But what are the odds with a field of 19 that 11 or so of them would have the mention reasons? Also I have seen many races where the leaders (1-4) have gone around the track 11 laps and make one mistake and spin the car or otherwise lose a position that didn't require a shift-r and then pull over and disconnect. Those are the ones that get me. There car was running great they were fast but they make one mistake and then quit because they know they can't win. But as most of you have pointed out is the racers choose to stay or leave. Also as someone stated, join a league if I want people to stay, well I run a league and your right I don't have those problems. But then again why should I host to the public then? I'm not saying I won't host I just want others to think twice about leaving a race because they can't be in the running for the win. -- Jeff Murchison Jr http://members.tripod.com/grandprixlegends > I would add one more Jeff: > 3- You're driving very poorly that day > It's better to disconnect rather than risk taking someone off. > > >I totally agree I host allot of races on VROC with my remote server that > > has > > >a full T1 connection (S.Remote in Vroc server list). I will get a full > > field > > >out there but when the races is over I am lucky if there are 6 left racing. > > >Watching the replay proves that they just quit like Joe said. This makes me > > >think twice about hosting races for everyone when they only want to play if > > >they can win or fight for the lead. Could you imagine watching a race on TV > > >and seeing guys just pull it into the pits because they knew they couldn't > > >win...... > > >Please if you join a race stay until the end you never know what might > > >happen. > > >-- > > >Jeff Murchison Jr > > Jeff, > > I usually try to stay until the end except for 2 things: > > 1-It's a free for all. > > 2-Disconnected from the server. > > Joel Willstein

> I agree there are some times when it is better to leave then stay. But what > are the odds with a field of 19 that 11 or so of them would have the mention > reasons? hehehe, you should join a F1 race in on GSB.. then maybe you'll ask "what are the odds of finding someone who can drive. Sory, I had to do it. I'm having way too much fun in F3 ;-) -- ========================================= Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing? ========================================= Member of R.O.R. 1999 http://w3.ime.net/~marknjess/ror.html ========================================= Racing online with the help of...... Mark Seery ***sports [link lost in import] Sim Racing Mag http://www.simracingmag.com/ Race Communications Association http://members.xoom.com/RCA/toc.html Holodyne Engineering Mystic Music (have Your !!Name/Address!! placed here) mikeba.vcf < 1K Download

[link lost in import] [link lost in import] [link lost in import] -- ========================================= Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing? ========================================= Member of R.O.R. 1999 http://w3.ime.net/~marknjess/ror.html ========================================= Racing online with the help of...... Mark Seery ***sports [link lost in import] Sim Racing Mag http://www.simracingmag.com/ Race Communications Association http://members.xoom.com/RCA/toc.html Holodyne Engineering Mystic Music (have Your !!Name/Address!! placed here) mikeba.vcf < 1K Download

>Please if you join a race stay until the end you never know what might >happen. That's just the thing ... it's not like an arcade racer, where you might make one mistake and not have a chance to catch up. I was having a good 1-one-1 F3 race the other day, and we had a good duel going. Lots of lead changes. Then we settled down and I was 8 seconds ahead of him for three straight laps, so he quits - literally seconds after I've spun out, which would have let him catch me. Joe McGinn ========================================== Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network [link lost in import: /***.com/] ==========================================

>Probably the best way to race online and get the >most out of it is to join an online racing league. Here, if you crash >and have the option to "Shift-R", then you will be ahead of a lot of >drivers by the end of the race, and have a chance to be ahead of a lot >of drivers at the end of the season. Not to mention the other benefits >such as "safer drivers". That'd a good point, and probably is the best solution. I will probably do that once my skills improve a bit and I study each track a bit more. I want at least stay on the road on all tracks (well maybe not the ring!). It will also be easier once I move in with my fiance (in about a week) as I will be able to comit to racing at a particular time. Does anyone have and URLs for good leagues? Joe McGinn ========================================== Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network [link lost in import: /***.com/] ==========================================

>In real racing a spin or a crash usually >eliminates you anyway, that's why just keeping the car on >the track is so much more important than being fast. As I mentioned, I understand some people play with this "realistic style" and I don't have a problem with that. No, I want to have people to race against. I'm not usually fast enough to keep up to the leaders. If everyone who is slow (or has spun out once) quites, I'm left doing hotlaps. Joe McGinn ========================================== Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network [link lost in import: /***.com/] ==========================================

I don't like to toot my own horn but I run a very clean and close league. -- Jeff Murchison Jr HTTP://members.tripod.com/grandprixlegends > >Probably the best way to race online and get the > >most out of it is to join an online racing league. Here, if you crash > >and have the option to "Shift-R", then you will be ahead of a lot of > >drivers by the end of the race, and have a chance to be ahead of a lot > >of drivers at the end of the season. Not to mention the other benefits > >such as "safer drivers". > That'd a good point, and probably is the best solution. I will > probably do that once my skills improve a bit and I study each track a > bit more. I want at least stay on the road on all tracks (well maybe > not the ring!). It will also be easier once I move in with my fiance > (in about a week) as I will be able to comit to racing at a particular > time. > Does anyone have and URLs for good leagues? > Joe McGinn > ========================================== > Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network > [link lost in import: /***.com/] > ==========================================

Thanks!

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>[link lost in import] >[link lost in import] >[link lost in import] >> Does anyone have and URLs for good leagues? >> Joe McGinn >> ========================================== >> Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network >> [link lost in import: /***.com/] >> ==========================================

Joe McGinn ========================================== Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network [link lost in import: /***.com/] ==========================================

>I don't like to toot my own horn but I run a very clean and close league. Thx, I'll check it out. Joe McGinn ========================================== Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network [link lost in import: /***.com/] ==========================================

Speaking of leagues... What leagues are out there? and what are they (classes)? Grand Prix Mini League...........[link lost in import] Gentlemans Motor sports society..[link lost in import] Sim Racing Mag...................[link lost in import] GPML = F3 GMSS = F1-F2-F3 SRM = F1-F3 who else? Mike Barlow

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> Thanks! > >[link lost in import] > >[link lost in import] > >[link lost in import] > >> Does anyone have and URLs for good leagues? > >> Joe McGinn > >> ========================================== > >> Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network > >> [link lost in import: /***.com/] > >> ========================================== > Joe McGinn > ========================================== > Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network > [link lost in import: /***.com/] > ==========================================

-- ========================================= Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing? ========================================= Member of R.O.R. 1999 http://w3.ime.net/~marknjess/ror.html ========================================= Racing online with the help of...... Mark Seery ***sports [link lost in import] Sim Racing Mag http://www.simracingmag.com/ Race Communications Association http://members.xoom.com/RCA/toc.html Holodyne Engineering Mystic Music (have Your !!Name/Address!! placed here) mikeba.vcf < 1K Download

<snipped other tue stuff> Joe, it's because 90% of the ppl race using the wrong approach for online-races: They confuse this with hot-lapping and go out and drive ahead, never backing off, building up a discouraging lead.....Only very seldom I see ppl in the lead actually waiting for the followers-up, maybe even letting them by and racing them from scratch........*this* is the way it should be and *this* is fun! When I'm the lead, I always wait, when I'm back, I type "w" and hope ppl wait for me! cay all and keep waiting! Markus

says... IGPS, but we're no longer taking driver apps for the current season. Some of the "features" of the league: - Limited to four chassis of any given type (max 28 drivers in the league) - Bonus points for fast lap, positions gained, pole - Penalty points for all forms of stupid driving - Token points for up to 5 no-shows during the season - League admin is harsh, but fair. :-) - No-bullshit rule set including limited Shift-R allowance, previous week's winner DNQ, etc... - At the end of the season, all drivers still in the league have an opportunity to receive a free CD with all of the race replays, and the complete web page. Last season I mailed out 19 CD's including 6 to Europe at my own expense. Check out the web page... Internet Grand Prix Series Season 2 http://www.paddedwall.org/igps2/igps2.html At the end of this season, IGPS will be no more (unless someone else wants to run it). I will be starting an online league for N3 run in a similar fashion. I've already started the web page... North American Stockcar Racing Online Competition http://www.paddedwall.org/nasroc1/nasroc1.html -- ========================================================= Redneck Techno-Biker (Zerex12) http://www.members.home.net/jms1/index.html Barbarian Diecast Collector (370+ cars and counting) http://members.home.net/jsimm/diecast_index.html Internet Grand Prix Series Season 2 http://www.paddedwall.org/igps2/igps2.html North American Stockcar Racing Online Competition http://www.paddedwall.org/nasroc1/nasroc1.html Super X Philes http://members.home.net/kap/superx/superx.html If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

Could you not do what the NROS guys do and just run a test race with only 1 driver? Testing is fine, but you are asking other drivers to indulge your lack of commitment to 'their' racing. If you really want to test, just host your own race and limit it to one driver.(can you do that in VROC?) :) In a recent British Touring Car race, the defending series champ,(Rikard Rydell) suffered a mechanical non-fatal failure. He kept running but definately was out of the hunt. His team manager argued with him on their radio whether it was better to just quit(driver) or press on(team manager) Nascar drivers traditionally keep pressing on until they are blackflagged for being a danger to the other drivers. I can't advise you what is best..but I have won a race or two just because I kept pressing on. even tho I was horribly slow and spin prone. dave henrie (I wonder how many disco drivers use the f10 view?)

Hi, Here are two good leagues that are intended for "mature" sim racers. Most (all?) re over 40. Saves racing against all them young punks with the lightening reflexs and no job! MARA. Runs F2 and F1 cars at the same time (very interesting!). Pro long races last season. http://homex.c2i.net/jaruud/maramain.htm FATSO. A strictly F2 league, with Int long races. The original F2 league (I think) with a complete season under our belts. http://people2.mw.mediaone.net/gmclachl/index.htm Kevin Caldwell Calgary, Canada

This is only 50% true.. I will wait once in a while when I feel board. However, even when I do wait for them, They pull over and make me pass. What fun is that? Next, when I'm lucky enough to find someone that knows that they should not move over, I'm ended up with making laps in 3rd gear following them. What fun is that? Mike Barlow -- ========================================= Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing? ========================================= Member of R.O.R. 1999 http://w3.ime.net/~marknjess/ror.html ========================================= Racing online with the help of...... Mark Seery ***sports [link lost in import] Sim Racing Mag http://www.simracingmag.com/ Race Communications Association http://members.xoom.com/RCA/toc.html Holodyne Engineering Mystic Music (have Your !!Name/Address!! placed here) mikeba.vcf < 1K Download

> This is only 50% true.. I will wait once in a while when I feel >board. However, even when I do wait for them, They pull over and make >me pass. What fun is that? Well, part of the problem is simply that GPL is an advanced sim thgat takes a lot of time to learn, so there are drivers at vastly different levels of abilities. Nothing wrong with that IMO. What does seem like fun to me is spinning out or blowing a turn, being passed by some slower drivers, then trying to catch them instead of giving up the race. Some people are up to this challenge, many on the pick-up GPL races are not. Anywy, I'm checking out the leagues, looking for an F3 one that's starting soon. I think that is the best solution, and I'm looking forward to it. Joe McGinn ========================================== Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network [link lost in import: /***.com/] ==========================================

lol this is funny.... um ok, you tell me how to race - yeah that's fine... I don't know how to..... which one's the throttle? Tim "Confused and dazed" Wheatley

joe. We are half way through our current season but you would be welcome to join us. You aint going to win the championship but I can offer you some really good racing. In our league we have fast drivers and slower drivers but all are equally talented in the art of bringing out the best in themselves and racing cleanly. -- Mark Seery GPML league director http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/mark.seery/ > > This is only 50% true.. I will wait once in a while when I feel > >board. However, even when I do wait for them, They pull over and make > >me pass. What fun is that? > Well, part of the problem is simply that GPL is an advanced sim thgat > takes a lot of time to learn, so there are drivers at vastly different > levels of abilities. Nothing wrong with that IMO. > What does seem like fun to me is spinning out or blowing a turn, being > passed by some slower drivers, then trying to catch them instead of > giving up the race. Some people are up to this challenge, many on the > pick-up GPL races are not. > Anywy, I'm checking out the leagues, looking for an F3 one that's > starting soon. I think that is the best solution, and I'm looking > forward to it. > Joe McGinn > ========================================== > Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network > [link lost in import: /***.com/] > ==========================================

That's a nice way to put it Mark. And on top that it's true. Jan. ------- ><snip>all are equally talented in the art of bringing out the best in themselves >and racing cleanly.

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> This is only 50% true.. I will wait once in a while when I feel >board. However, even when I do wait for them, They pull over and make >me pass. What fun is that? Next, when I'm lucky enough to find >someone that knows that they should not move over, I'm ended up with >making laps in 3rd gear following them. What fun is that? >Mike Barlow >> Joe, it's because 90% of the ppl race using the wrong approach for >> online-races: They confuse this with hot-lapping and go out and drive

ahead,

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>> never backing off, building up a discouraging lead.....Only very seldom I >> see ppl in the lead actually waiting for the followers-up, maybe even >> letting them by and racing them from scratch........*this* is the way it >> should be and *this* is fun! When I'm the lead, I always wait, when I'm >> back, I type "w" and hope ppl wait for me! >> cay all and keep waiting! >> Markus

IMO, speaking as a mid-pack driver<g>, I learn a lot more by following a faster driver than I do having them bouncing back and forth in my mirrors until I over-cook it. I've been lucky enough to have a couple guys let me chase them around for a few sessions and pick up a few pointers. I know it's not great fun for them to have to slow their pace but if it brings more racers up to speed, in the long run it's good for our little online community. Maybe it's time to set up a GPL drivers school. don [|]-(_)-[|]

Hi Marcus, i agree with the points you have raised here.!! I always wonder to myself, why the real fast guys on VROC, insist on running the faster cars all the time. I don't class myself as super fast, but i consider myself reasonably fast and safe, and i have a lot more fun on VROC, by using the slower Marques, such as the Coventry or BRM. I tend to favour racing in the F2 & F3 cars lately, as the racing is a lot closer and cleaner than most pick-up races, but even in them two classes of racing, i usually turn up in the Coventry, and i have a ball dicing with mid field drivers who are running the quicker Marques. Normally, the only time i get in the quicker Marques, is when i am competing for points in my league races. If some of the quicker drivers chose the slower Marques in the races on VROC, then they wouldn't have to slow down so much to be able to dice with and have fun with the mid field runners, still i guess ego is a big thing, some guys just have to be out the front all the time. :) I also tend to wait for drivers if i find myself out front as well. I don't do that in my league races, but on VROC pick-up races, i am there to have fun and running out the front all by myself, doesn't induce much fun factor into racing on-line for me. I would rather dice with 2 or 3 mid field drivers, for the duration of the race and have a ball doing it, than simply go for a win in ANY race.. Cheers, Ron

Don't worry Tim, I wasn't telling you how to race, lord knows, I'm a confirmed backmarker. But I was referring to your choice of continuing despite not being able to win or place well, or not. And I was saying....I couldn't tell you which better, sorry I wasn't clear, But if you insist...the x button makes car go square button makes car stop triangle button makes emergency brake work circle button honks horn. good :) luck! dave henrie

I've been asking for such a thing since Papy's Hawaii days. The closest thing we have to this are the web pages that say.. do this and this and that. Not a one will formally jump in and try to teach us what to to on track. If anything was to start up, you know damn well I'll be at the front of the line ;-) Mike Barlow -- ========================================= Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing? ========================================= Member of R.O.R. 1999 http://w3.ime.net/~marknjess/ror.html ========================================= Racing online with the help of...... Mark Seery ***sports [link lost in import] Sim Racing Mag http://www.simracingmag.com/ Race Communications Association http://members.xoom.com/RCA/toc.html Holodyne Engineering Mystic Music (have Your !!Name/Address!! placed here) mikeba.vcf < 1K Download

Try this one... [link lost in import] -- ========================================= Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing? ========================================= Member of R.O.R. 1999 http://w3.ime.net/~marknjess/ror.html ========================================= Racing online with the help of...... Mark Seery ***sports [link lost in import] Sim Racing Mag http://www.simracingmag.com/ Race Communications Association http://members.xoom.com/RCA/toc.html Holodyne Engineering Mystic Music (have Your !!Name/Address!! placed here) mikeba.vcf < 1K Download

[s] I understand your frustration, when I race online I generally try to stay till the end whatever position I'm in. However, I have on one or three occasions quit - once to take a phone call from my daughter, once because I was just pissed off; I'd had enough, and once because there was no one else left in the race. I guess for some people it's almost a matter of habbit. They race the AI and, let's face it when you crash out there you might as well start again. It's not like that in anything but pro races online; even if your last, chances are someone ahead will spin and you will be racing them again - that is if they stay and don't just quit... -- Suck The Goat

>joe. >We are half way through our current season but you would be welcome to join >us. You aint going to win the championship but I can offer you some really >good racing. Hi Mark, Sounds interesting. My only question is about the race lengths - Intermediate Long. I haven't done any but short races, so I don't know how long that is. How many laps, for example, is a Watkins Glen or Rouen race on Long? Also, what time do you normally run your races? Are they always on Sunday. Unfortunately I'll probably miss Rouen (my favourite track) as I'm moving next weekend. Joe McGinn ========================================== Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network [link lost in import: /***.com/] ==========================================

Remember that many people (i.e Europeans) have to pay for every minute they're online - if you're 30 seconds behind the field with nothing to do, many will find it better to quit so that they can either save money or spend it on a more worthwhile race. -- Cheers! Graeme Nash http://www.bromley-fc.co.uk ICQ# 11257824

Good point GN, even so, personally I will never quit a race if I am mid pack, only if I am dead last and with no hope at all of catching the leaders. However mid pack races are becoming rare - most of the time the folks behind me drop out :( if only they would wait for my inevitable spin! -- Mike Buckley Cotswold Pig Development Co Ltd Tel: +44 (0)1472 371591 Fax: +44 (0)1472 371208 http://www.toastyhamster.freeserve.co.uk

I also usually stay until the end of the race, but 2 days ago I was leading at Zandvoort until I had a spin and suddenly I was third. The next thing that happened was that GPL froze, so I was unable to continue racing. For the other racers it propably looked like I quit the race because I lost the lead. -Jan Otto

even worse last night - raced at Monaco - joined about 11 racers with no time for a qualifying lap, started from the back of the grid and due to some luck and other crashes i was 1st after lap one, had a bit of a dice with the second place man for a couple of laps til he left, then i found that all the other racers had left as well??!!! what a waste of time! how many people are there that use GSB/VROC and never finish a race night after night?! -- Mike Buckley Cotswold Pig Development Co Ltd Tel: +44 (0)1472 371591 Fax: +44 (0)1472 371208 http://www.toastyhamster.freeserve.co.uk

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> I also usually stay until the end of the race, but 2 days ago I was leading > at Zandvoort until I had a spin and suddenly I was third. The next thing > that happened was that GPL froze, so I was unable to continue racing. For > the other racers it propably looked like I quit the race because I lost the > lead. > -Jan Otto

I had the same 3 days ago: Racing at Spa and suddenly in the final lap "frozen". At that moment there's only one sokution: <Ctrl><Alt><Del> and kill the papyrus and gpl processes. Does anybody have a clue what causes these hangs? It happens now and then and I can't reproduce it. Another point for early quitting: We (in the Netherlands) have to pay per second for our online-racing. If the race is really lost it's no use to stay online except if you like wasting money. Jan.