Errrmmmm........NO!

Are you still in hospital? Get Well soon! >I went into hospital on June 6Th when GPal was announced for June 7th (or >8th or whatever).

O.k., I'd like to appreciate any effort to enhance computer-based racing simulations. I also think that work, private life or even sleep should have a higher priority than things you do with your computer for the sake of other people's fun. But there is one thing I don't like: Making promises you can not keep (and if not promises - announcements will do also, if repeated.) I went into hospital on June 6Th when GPal was announced for June 7th (or 8th or whatever). Now its July 15th and Jack has postponed once again. The problem is: I'm not even sure that GPal is necessary, but I'd like to see it anyway. And maybe it's really useful. But it is in fact a not very professional way to announce products for a date you can not keep. It is a way to push expectations. Expectations you can probably fulfill under no circumstances. GPal seems to be a perfect example of such an unhealthy behavior. Jack is keeping expectations high and flying but is promising nothing in reality. As much as I would like to see a program which would make the "perfect companion to GPL", as much I am disappointed with Jacks professional attitude. If you can't get your things done, then quit them. I am sorry Jack, but I think you should go for a more professional approach... Yours - Reaperle

I am home. I am perfectly well. Thanks for you asking. R.

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> Are you still in hospital? Get Well soon! > >I went into hospital on June 6Th when GPal was announced for June 7th (or > >8th or whatever).

Sorry, but I think until you sit in Jacks shoes and are developing something similar to his project you have no place to criticize someone who is doing this in his spare time for FREE. Ive said this before, but I am amazed at all the add ons available to the community. We have some awesome talent among us. I wish I had the ability to contribute to the sim racing fans like so many among us do. If more people had your attitude and I was one of the people with these skills... Id basically tell you to kiss off. I would develop it for myself and give it to only those who appreciate the effort. Just my opinion though. Scott PA-Scott -- Scott B. Husted ICQ# 4395450

No doubt Jack thought he could keep to the initial timescales - otherwise he would not have suggested them. The workplace is full of missed deadlines. We probably all know a roadworks project running way over expectations. Certainly anyone in the computer software or related industry is well aware of slipping launch dates. Indeed there will always be uncertainty when estimating timescales, and those little problems always crop up that weren't in the initial plan. This is in the workplace where we get paid to come up with deadlines and control the resources to meet them. Outside of the workplace and hobbies have to take lower priorities. Add the uncertainties of domestic life and plans simply go out the window. Car restoration projects, house renovations, DIY projects - how many of us have been way too optimistic in planning when we will get it all done. Something always takes longer than expected or distractions take us away from our projects. Enthusiasm adds to the over optimistic planning - the desire to see the finished article adds means we so often dismiss the potential pitfalls and plan for the perfect scenario - of course this seldom ever is the case. Add all sorts of other factors - pressures of work, family demands, delays of related supplies or products (in this case did the delayed launch of GPL 1.1 patch have a bearing?) and we start to understand why a hobby might take so much longer than originally thought. So lets try to be a bit more understanding towards a very enthusiastic GPL fan who wants to ensure his product is spot on before launch. The GPL 1.1 patch has done little to improve on-line play for me - so I eagerly await GPaL to make the off-line play super competitive at every track - I'm e***d by the prospect. Cheers Tony

Quit complaining! Give Jack some time, I am sure GPaL will be finished soon. Guys like you***me off... Always complaining about when something is released trying to push the author into releasing it. People like you are also the first to complain when something has a bug in it. That bug is there because people like YOU pushed the author into releasing something which isn't actually finished yet! This really pisses me off! Jack: Take your time and amaze us when GPaL is done ;-) ! -MiXer-

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>O.k., I'd like to appreciate any effort to enhance computer-based racing >simulations. >I also think that work, private life or even sleep should have a higher >priority than things you do with your computer for the sake of other >people's fun. >But there is one thing I don't like: >Making promises you can not keep (and if not promises - announcements will >do also, if repeated.) >I went into hospital on June 6Th when GPal was announced for June 7th (or >8th or whatever). Now its July 15th and Jack has postponed once again. >The problem is: I'm not even sure that GPal is necessary, but I'd like to >see it anyway. And maybe it's really useful. >But it is in fact a not very professional way to announce products for a >date you can not keep. >It is a way to push expectations. Expectations you can probably fulfill >under no circumstances. >GPal seems to be a perfect example of such an unhealthy behavior. >Jack is keeping expectations high and flying but is promising nothing in >reality. >As much as I would like to see a program which would make the "perfect >companion to GPL", as much I am disappointed with Jacks professional >attitude. >If you can't get your things done, then quit them. >I am sorry Jack, but I think you should go for a more professional >approach... >Yours - >Reaperle

i can't believe you would post someting like this. the fact is that jack is NOT a professional.... he's doing this on his own time, for FREE! (well, i think it's free... maybe it's shareware? i'm sure it's not expensive, either way. sorry.). it's incredibly ironic that you'd demand more *professional* behavior from a *non-professional*. so he's had some setbacks. big deal. what have *you* done to help (him or the sim-racing community in general)? you may well be a really nice person, but this post makes you sound like a real jerk. glad you're out of the hospital, though.... companion to GPL", as much I am disappointed with Jacks professional attitude. If you can't get your things done, then quit them. I am sorry Jack, but I think you should go for a more professional approach... Yours - Reaperle

>But it is in fact a not very professional way to announce products for a >date you can not keep. Um, dude, it's not a professional project, it's amatuer - in other words, no one is making any money from it, and the guy doing it still has to put bread on the table. Give him a break. That would be to charge for GPaL, by definition. I prefer to wait a few more days and get it for free (though in fact I would gladly pay $10 - $15 for it). Joe McGinn ========================================== Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network [link lost in import: /***.com/] ==========================================

Hey Grim Take a chill pill, whydontya.........! I get paid to manage customer expectation, and I know how hard it can be.... and yeah Jack has managed our expectation poorly, but we aint paying him, so you have no right to whinge........ So unless you are ready with the "readies", and are prepared to pay for Jack's next project, just shut up and wait like the rest of us. What do you do "professionally"??, and school does not count BTW.... SteveG

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> Hey, Sjon! > Somewhat strong language for a man who did lots of perfect work for the > simracing community. > Nobody rushed you ever, right? > And you did perfect work with Sjon's GP2 site. > Congratulations after quite a while. > But you never made promises you couldn't keep. > You just made your work. > That's professional! > So - calm down. > Criticism is a part of a democratical society. And it basically works for > the sake of the community. > So what... > R. > > Quit complaining! > > Give Jack some time, I am sure GPaL will be finished soon. > > Guys like you***me off... Always complaining about when something > > is released trying to push the author into releasing it. People like you > are > > also the first to complain when something has a bug in it. > > That bug is there because people like YOU pushed the author > > into releasing something which isn't actually finished yet! > > This really pisses me off! > > Jack: Take your time and amaze us when GPaL is done ;-) ! > > -MiXer- > > >O.k., I'd like to appreciate any effort to enhance computer-based

racing

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> > >simulations. > > >I also think that work, private life or even sleep should have a higher > > >priority than things you do with your computer for the sake of other > > >people's fun. > > >But there is one thing I don't like: > > >Making promises you can not keep (and if not promises - announcements > will > > >do also, if repeated.) > > >I went into hospital on June 6Th when GPal was announced for June 7th

(or > > >8th or whatever). Now its July 15th and Jack has postponed once again. > > >The problem is: I'm not even sure that GPal is necessary, but I'd like to > > >see it anyway. And maybe it's really useful. > > >But it is in fact a not very professional way to announce products for a > > >date you can not keep. > > >It is a way to push expectations. Expectations you can probably fulfill > > >under no circumstances. > > >GPal seems to be a perfect example of such an unhealthy behavior. > > >Jack is keeping expectations high and flying but is promising nothing in

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> > >reality. > > >As much as I would like to see a program which would make the "perfect > > >companion to GPL", as much I am disappointed with Jacks professional > > >attitude. > > >If you can't get your things done, then quit them. > > >I am sorry Jack, but I think you should go for a more professional > > >approach... > > >Yours - > > >Reaperle

Redundantly I say again; Double Ditto to Joe's reply!! Chill everyone. It is a "free-bie".. Damn.. Thom_j. > Um, dude, it's not a professional project, it's amatuer - in other > words, no one is making any money from it, and the guy doing it still > has to put bread on the table. Give him a break.

>If you can't get your things done, then quit them. >I am sorry Jack, but I think you should go for a more professional >approach... Maybe you should just ask for your money back. Don McCorkle Libertarian Motorsports

On Thu, 15 Jul 1999 22:38:06 +0200, *plonk* -- * rrevved at mindspring dot com * unit.26 - s.p.u.t.u.m. * http://www.cabal.net * http://www.sputum.com

> And you really think you're only allowed to criticize things and people of > your own business? > And you have never complained about your government, tax-system or Max > Mosley? Government and Tax System isnt free the last time I checked. They arent being offered as volunteer services either. If they are... I have one hell of a refund due to me from the IRS. He is being bombarded with requests asking him when it will be released. He says I "expect" it so and so. He discovers a bug. Instead of distributing it with bugs and getting flamed to hell for it, he delays it and spends his free time (which he could be using to race, spend with family, sleep, etc) to correct the error. Its catch 22. He is flamed if he says when and he is flamed when he doesn't. Its just a shame for someone who is making a personal sacrifice to provide a product for OUR benefit. Scott PA-Scott -- Scott B. Husted PA-Scott on TEN G.T.S. Racing - http://www.GTS-Racing.com High Gear "The View" Editor - http://www.simracingnews.com http://home.earthlink.net/~sbhusted ICQ# 4395450

And you really think you're only allowed to criticize things and people of your own business? And you have never complained about your government, tax-system or Max Mosley? The point is: I am not complaining about Jack's work or GPal itself, but about his way of announcing GPal. R.

Well, o.k., that's right. Maybe my approach was a bit over the top. Jack is not a professional after all, but I thought I had made it clear that I believe that GPal should be a somewhat not-so-important part in his life. But working on a project is one thing and to keep people waiting for this is another thing. And Jack's announcements leave me with the impression that he is overenthusiastic with letting people waiting for GPal. He is building expectations. If he would have been working on it and releasing it one day, I would see no problem at all. Right now there is a possibility that lots of people are expecting GPal to be the "cure-all" of GPL's shortcomings. And I fear that Gpal can't live to the expectations of many people. This would be a shame, as I sincerely believe that GPal will be a marvelous tool. The "unprofessional approach" that I suspect concerns not Jack's work as a programmer, but his work in "public relations". Keep expectations low, and your customers will praise you. Jack didn't keep expectations low. This is what I find unprofessional. And - you were perfectly right - is of course just my opinion. R

Hey, Sjon! Somewhat strong language for a man who did lots of perfect work for the simracing community. Nobody rushed you ever, right? And you did perfect work with Sjon's GP2 site. Congratulations after quite a while. But you never made promises you couldn't keep. You just made your work. That's professional! So - calm down. Criticism is a part of a democratical society. And it basically works for the sake of the community. So what... R. > Quit complaining! > Give Jack some time, I am sure GPaL will be finished soon. > Guys like you***me off... Always complaining about when something > is released trying to push the author into releasing it. People like you are

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> also the first to complain when something has a bug in it. > That bug is there because people like YOU pushed the author > into releasing something which isn't actually finished yet! > This really pisses me off! > Jack: Take your time and amaze us when GPaL is done ;-) ! > -MiXer- > >O.k., I'd like to appreciate any effort to enhance computer-based racing > >simulations. > >I also think that work, private life or even sleep should have a higher > >priority than things you do with your computer for the sake of other > >people's fun. > >But there is one thing I don't like: > >Making promises you can not keep (and if not promises - announcements

will

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> >do also, if repeated.) > >I went into hospital on June 6Th when GPal was announced for June 7th (or > >8th or whatever). Now its July 15th and Jack has postponed once again. > >The problem is: I'm not even sure that GPal is necessary, but I'd like to > >see it anyway. And maybe it's really useful. > >But it is in fact a not very professional way to announce products for a > >date you can not keep. > >It is a way to push expectations. Expectations you can probably fulfill > >under no circumstances. > >GPal seems to be a perfect example of such an unhealthy behavior. > >Jack is keeping expectations high and flying but is promising nothing in > >reality. > >As much as I would like to see a program which would make the "perfect > >companion to GPL", as much I am disappointed with Jacks professional > >attitude. > >If you can't get your things done, then quit them. > >I am sorry Jack, but I think you should go for a more professional > >approach... > >Yours - > >Reaperle

Agree. R. > > But there is one thing I don't like: > > Making promises you can not keep (and if not promises - announcements will > > do also, if repeated > No doubt Jack thought he could keep to the initial timescales - otherwise he > would not have suggested them. > The workplace is full of missed deadlines. We probably all know a roadworks > project running way over expectations. Certainly anyone in the computer > software or related industry is well aware of slipping launch dates. Indeed

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> there will always be uncertainty when estimating timescales, and those > little problems always crop up that weren't in the initial plan. > This is in the workplace where we get paid to come up with deadlines and > control the resources to meet them. > Outside of the workplace and hobbies have to take lower priorities. Add

the > uncertainties of domestic life and plans simply go out the window. Car > restoration projects, house renovations, DIY projects - how many of us have > been way too optimistic in planning when we will get it all done. Something

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> always takes longer than expected or distractions take us away from our > projects. > Enthusiasm adds to the over optimistic planning - the desire to see the > finished article adds means we so often dismiss the potential pitfalls and > plan for the perfect scenario - of course this seldom ever is the case. > Add all sorts of other factors - pressures of work, family demands, delays > of related supplies or products (in this case did the delayed launch of

GPL > 1.1 patch have a bearing?) and we start to understand why a hobby might take

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> so much longer than originally thought. > So lets try to be a bit more understanding towards a very enthusiastic GPL > fan who wants to ensure his product is spot on before launch. > The GPL 1.1 patch has done little to improve on-line play for me - so I > eagerly await GPaL to make the off-line play super competitive at every > track - I'm e***d by the prospect. > Cheers > Tony

So what? First, usenet is not a democratical society. It's a chaotical society. Errm, I think I mean chaotic. ;) No election was held to give Jack the title of "GPaL Committee Chair". He stepped forward, and told the community he was going to do it. This is not democracy. (Actually, in your own sick little world, it's a theocracy, I'd bet, Jack.) ;-D Second, whining about such a ridiculous topic has nothing but a negative effect on the community. Call it "criticism" or whatever you wish, but it looks like a 3-year-old child crying, and does absolutely nothing to motivate the developer. Do you realize how ridiculous you make yourself look by acting like this? For crying out loud, whining to Randy and Papy about the free patch sounded silly! But you are now whining to a person whose "hobby" happens to be making cool software. You've taken "Whining Like a Spoiled Child" and made it an art form If Jack wants to come here and toss out dates, and then live a life with his family or job, or whatever, then so be it. If he was to never finish GPaL, he would still have the right to come here and guess at it's completion date, daily, until he died. Oh, by the way, I'm shaking the last of the bugs out of my Linux port of Grand Prix Legends. I should have it ready by tomorrow, noon, if anyone wants it. That means tomorrow I should be able to pull off a concurrent release of my ports for Linux, Mac, and Windows CE, and Palm Pilot all at once. :P Sheesh, there I go, acting all "unprofessional" again. I'll have to work on that. Everyone have a nice day. No wait. Everyone, do not have a nice day. Everyone get a grip! Brett

Reaperle...I'd like you to think back about what you have said. His expected release date was just an estimated time of when he MIGHT have the project done. Remember that he has a real life too, he doesn't spend all his time working on a program for a game, I'm sorry, a sim. He might want to spend time with his family, eat, sleep, ya know. Also, think that even professionals don't get things out when they say they will. Hell, Papyrus said we'd have NASCAR Racing 3, (the true N3 with the GPL physics engine) by the end of 1998, now they're saying it won't be out for another year or more. So don't take dates too literally when you want something released. You will end up with another bug-filled piece of crap, like NASCAR Revolution was. Dan Belcher Team Racing Unlimited

On Thu, 15 Jul 1999 22:34:03 -0400, Scott, no good deed goes unpunished... :) -- * rrevved at mindspring dot com * unit.26 - s.p.u.t.u.m. * http://www.cabal.net * http://www.sputum.com

Hahaha! So in your opinion, there is not a single professional software developer on the whole world?? I just thought of Westwood who are 1-2 years late for C&C:TS. Wow, they are unprofessional.... Or think about Microsoft. I don't know exactly, but I think I remember that Win95 was late, too, so it must be unprofessional.... Well, what OS are you using then?? You won't use an unprofessional one, will you? Just my two unprofessional cents... Dex

ROFL Scott PA-Scott

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> On Thu, 15 Jul 1999 22:34:03 -0400, > >Its just a shame for someone who is making a personal sacrifice to provide > >a product for OUR benefit. > Scott, no good deed goes unpunished... :) > -- > * rrevved at mindspring dot com > * unit.26 - s.p.u.t.u.m. > * http://www.cabal.net > * http://www.sputum.com

-- Scott B. Husted ICQ# 4395450

(snip) The point is: I am not complaining about Jack's work or GPal itself, but about his way of announcing GPal. (unsnip) No you weren't...you were complaining about the fact that it was "late". Go back and have a look at your post. You effectively said that if he can't get it done on time then he should forget it. Now how exactly does that relate to your claim that you were only complaining about the WAY he announced it?

It is, actually. It is probably one of the most democratic "societies" of all....no leader, few rules, everyone has an equal opportunity to air their views and everyone else can debate those views 'til the cows come home. Very democratic, in fact.

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> >Criticism is a part of a democratical society. And it basically works for > >the sake of the community. > >So what... > So what? > First, usenet is not a democratical society. It's a chaotical > society. Errm, I think I mean chaotic. ;) No election was held to > give Jack the title of "GPaL Committee Chair". He stepped forward, > and told the community he was going to do it. This is not democracy. > (Actually, in your own sick little world, it's a theocracy, I'd bet, > Jack.) > ;-D > Second, whining about such a ridiculous topic has nothing but a > negative effect on the community. Call it "criticism" or whatever you > wish, but it looks like a 3-year-old child crying, and does absolutely > nothing to motivate the developer. > Do you realize how ridiculous you make yourself look by acting like > this? For crying out loud, whining to Randy and Papy about the free > patch sounded silly! But you are now whining to a person whose > "hobby" happens to be making cool software. You've taken "Whining > Like a Spoiled Child" and made it an art form > If Jack wants to come here and toss out dates, and then live a life > with his family or job, or whatever, then so be it. If he was to > never finish GPaL, he would still have the right to come here and > guess at it's completion date, daily, until he died. > Oh, by the way, I'm shaking the last of the bugs out of my Linux port > of Grand Prix Legends. I should have it ready by tomorrow, noon, if > anyone wants it. That means tomorrow I should be able to pull off a > concurrent release of my ports for Linux, Mac, and Windows CE, and > Palm Pilot all at once. :P > Sheesh, there I go, acting all "unprofessional" again. I'll have to > work on that. > Everyone have a nice day. > No wait. Everyone, do not have a nice day. Everyone get a grip! > Brett

>It is probably one of the most democratic "societies" of all....no leader, >few rules, everyone has an equal opportunity to air their views and everyone >else can debate those views 'til the cows come home. >Very democratic, in fact. Um, not to start an offtopic argument but that's not democratic. A democratic body must in the end have a way to put the debate to a vote, and a way for that result to be implemented. Joe McGinn ========================================== Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network [link lost in import: /***.com/] ==========================================