Dispapointment of FF in GLP

Let me start of by saying that by no way am disapointed with GPL ... I've loved it since the day it came out and will play for a long time to come. It was almost a perfect game out of the box. Anyway, I keep on reading here how the FF in GPL 1.1 really brings the game out to a different dimention; how you can feel the weight of the car and the wheel loading up with cornering forces. Now a friend of mine has got himself a "Logitech Wingman FF" wheel (excellent wheel, shame about the average padals). So of course I had to go and visit him after all I read about GPL and FF. I must say that to me it felt worse than my non-FF T2 wheel at home. To star of my T2 wheel gets heavier the more you wind it on; this gives me the "illusion" of cornering force the more I wind on the lock..... the FF wheel does NOT do this ... I was expecting it to load up though the fast corners (like at Monza) but it doesn't. Also, I was expecting it to get really heavy when you hit the brakes hard (not lock up) - again it doesn't. Also, I was expecting it to get real light when you lock up the front wheels but again it doesn't. Another thing I was expecting is the wheel to rerally load up if the back staps out (not smoothly step out) - again it doesn't. Am I missing something? What I did notice is though: - wheel pulls slightly when blipping the throttle in neutral as the car twists (excellent). - wheel does a little kick each time you change the gear. (good) - wheel vibrates (that's what it does) when you put a tyre of the track. (OK) - Wheel jolts and vibrates when I hit something.(OK) - Wheel pulls from side to side when you do a burnout (good) - besides that it seems to be (what seems randomly to me) jolting and kicking as I go straight and full/even thottle (domw any straight on Monza for example). (not good) To me all of this seems more like a gimick instead of an enhancement to the gameplay ... sometimes I found myself wondering why the wheel is 'kicking" me .. and it makes me forget the visual/sound cues that GPL normally sends.... it's kind of like when you're racing and someone starts shaking your chair - annoying to say the least but definatelly not enhaning my GPL experience (even if the friend tries to lean you out of corners :-) What am I missing? I have a mid-engine rear-wheel drive (no powersttering -... doesn't need it) car; I take it on race track regulary and I know what the wheel should feel like under certain conditions like: - at slow speed it should be haavy and lighten up with speed (it's should be perfectly light as soom as your doing 60+ km/h) - under braking it should load up as all the weight and G forces squat the front wheels. - It should lighten up (become really light) when you lock up the front tyres. In fact it should do this even when you push the car into understeer. - It should snap to being really heavy as your back "snaps" out. It should kick in the opposite directions if the back fishtails. This is the feedback I was looking for in GPL with FF. I know that FF technology has moved only that far but "Scud Racer" in the arcades seems to have 100x more realistic FF that GPL. Is this all I should expect from GPL? I would love to have the "imersive" experience that everyone else is talking about. Am I missing some magical settings or do I have it all wrong? As it is, I'd rather play GPL without the FF as the moment. Regards, David Mocnay

Have you tried altering the default settings in 'core ini'? Try taking the steering torque down a bit, say 350.00 from the 225 default. It may help. Steve

GPL is definitely different from what I had expected or imagined. Because of my preconceived notions, it took me several days to really adapt the the feedback. The oversteer/understeer thing isn't really transmitted in GPL FF. This is probably realistic. I also don't get much feel for braking either, at least while braking in a straight line. What it does tell you is how much cornering force you are achieving. While driving through a turn, it gives you feedback as to what effect your steering and throttle input is having. This is really helpful in traffic, and in normal racing. GPL will probably not be an advantage in hot lapping, though it shouldn't slow you down. Bottom line, expect it to take several days to fully get used to the FF. When you do you'll really appreciate it. Adjusting the core.ini settings can make a big difference too. -- Pat Dotson >Is this all I should expect from GPL? I would love to have the "imersive" >experience that everyone else is talking about. Am I missing some magical >settings or do I have it all wrong? As it is, I'd rather play GPL without the >FF as the moment.

Does the Logitech wheel allow you to map forces from the vertical axis (Y) on to the wheel? because my Microsoft wheel has a checkbox in the setup and this defaults to on (this means that say when you accelerate, you get a force heading backwards and the wheel pulls left to show this, as well as doing the normal "cornering" effects) if this is the case then TURN IT OFF!!!!!! its a stupid idea and makes the wheel do all sorts of unexpected things. otherwise, sorry I don't know.

Pat, What adjustments have you made to your core.ini to accomodate your Force RS? I know there are others who would like to know if there are better settings for FF on this wheel... David Cook (Cooknn on VROC)

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> GPL is definitely different from what I had expected or imagined. > Because of my preconceived notions, it took me several days > to really adapt the the feedback. > The oversteer/understeer thing isn't really transmitted in GPL > FF. This is probably realistic. I also don't get much feel for > braking either, at least while braking in a straight line. > What it does tell you is how much cornering force you are > achieving. While driving through a turn, it gives you feedback > as to what effect your steering and throttle input is having. > This is really helpful in traffic, and in normal racing. GPL > will probably not be an advantage in hot lapping, though it > shouldn't slow you down. > Bottom line, expect it to take several days to fully get used > to the FF. When you do you'll really appreciate it. Adjusting > the core.ini settings can make a big difference too. > -- > Pat Dotson > >Is this all I should expect from GPL? I would love to have the "imersive" > >experience that everyone else is talking about. Am I missing some magical > >settings or do I have it all wrong? As it is, I'd rather play GPL without > the > >FF as the moment.

For one thing I have noticed that if you run lower ride height setups a lot of the FF effects are masked....if you're running the new min. RH of 2.5 you'll not feel as much as you would say at 3.5 or higher. TJSB

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> Let me start of by saying that by no way am disapointed with GPL ... I've > loved it since the day it came out and will play for a long time to come. It > was almost a perfect game out of the box. > Anyway, I keep on reading here how the FF in GPL 1.1 really brings the game > out to a different dimention; how you can feel the weight of the car and the > wheel loading up with cornering forces. Now a friend of mine has got himself a > "Logitech Wingman FF" wheel (excellent wheel, shame about the average padals). > So of course I had to go and visit him after all I read about GPL and FF. I > must say that to me it felt worse than my non-FF T2 wheel at home. To star of > my T2 wheel gets heavier the more you wind it on; this gives me the "illusion" > of cornering force the more I wind on the lock..... the FF wheel does NOT do > this ... I was expecting it to load up though the fast corners (like at Monza) > but it doesn't. Also, I was expecting it to get really heavy when you hit the > brakes hard (not lock up) - again it doesn't. Also, I was expecting it to get > real light when you lock up the front wheels but again it doesn't. Another > thing I was expecting is the wheel to rerally load up if the back staps out > (not smoothly step out) - again it doesn't. Am I missing something? > What I did notice is though: > - wheel pulls slightly when blipping the throttle in neutral as the car > twists (excellent). > - wheel does a little kick each time you change the gear. (good) > - wheel vibrates (that's what it does) when you put a tyre of the track. (OK) > - Wheel jolts and vibrates when I hit something.(OK) > - Wheel pulls from side to side when you do a burnout (good) > - besides that it seems to be (what seems randomly to me) jolting and kicking > as I go straight and full/even thottle (domw any straight on Monza for > example). (not good) > To me all of this seems more like a gimick instead of an enhancement to the > gameplay ... sometimes I found myself wondering why the wheel is 'kicking" me > .. and it makes me forget the visual/sound cues that GPL normally sends.... > it's kind of like when you're racing and someone starts shaking your chair - > annoying to say the least but definatelly not enhaning my GPL experience (even > if the friend tries to lean you out of corners :-) What am I missing? > I have a mid-engine rear-wheel drive (no powersttering -... doesn't need it) > car; I take it on race track regulary and I know what the wheel should feel > like under certain conditions like: > - at slow speed it should be haavy and lighten up with speed (it's should be > perfectly light as soom as your doing 60+ km/h) > - under braking it should load up as all the weight and G forces squat the > front wheels. > - It should lighten up (become really light) when you lock up the front tyres. > In fact it should do this even when you push the car into understeer. > - It should snap to being really heavy as your back "snaps" out. It should > kick in the opposite directions if the back fishtails. > This is the feedback I was looking for in GPL with FF. I know that FF > technology has moved only that far but "Scud Racer" in the arcades seems to > have 100x more realistic FF that GPL. > Is this all I should expect from GPL? I would love to have the "imersive" > experience that everyone else is talking about. Am I missing some magical > settings or do I have it all wrong? As it is, I'd rather play GPL without the > FF as the moment. > Regards, > David Mocnay

Hi there, Hanks for the input... though, I have to disagree with your commnet: ------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------- Understeer/oversteer is masivelly telegraphed though the wheel in a "real" car. I know it from my own car (which I take regulary to the track). Understeeer means that your front wheels are sliding and hence have no grip. Because they have no grip, turning the wheel is a breeze (ie. it's light). On the other hand, when you do a progressive powerslide then the steering wheel does not really load up; though, when the back agressively "snaps" out then your steering wheel becomes extremely heavy. hmmm .... I didn't feel any of that :-( ...maybe I should try it at Spa. could be that ... I've ony used FF in the Arcades and from those "scud racer" is by far the best. What core.ini setting are you guys using? thanks and regards, David Mocnay

: hmmm .... I didn't feel any of that :-( ...maybe I should try it at Spa. Let's put it this way - if you CAN'T feel the wheel load up at Eau Rouge then your wheel is not working. -- Richard G. Clegg Only the mind is waving Dept. of Mathematics (Network Control group) Uni. of York. www: http://manor.york.ac.uk/top.html

Not forgetting the dip at Fuchsrohre and then into Adenauer-Forst at thee Ring, you know you're pushing the limit through there with FF :) -- Ian Parker UKGPL League http://start.at/greenflag -- > : hmmm .... I didn't feel any of that :-( ...maybe I should try it at Spa. > Let's put it this way - if you CAN'T feel the wheel load up at Eau > Rouge then your wheel is not working. > -- > Richard G. Clegg Only the mind is waving > Dept. of Mathematics (Network Control group) Uni. of York. > www: http://manor.york.ac.uk/top.html