Let's put this into context, shall we?

Regarding GPL and "The Patch", has anyone said to themselves, "Whoa there! Just what the hell am I ***ing about?!!" when they've become pissed-off about the patch not working properly on their system? Put it into context......... Here in Oz the game cost (about) AUS $70 when released last October. It has been the most problem-free racing sim ever released. Since October, there have been more enhancements produced for GPL than you can poke a stick at.......tweaks, sounds, graphics.....you name it, somebody has done it, including the addition of a very professionally-produced Brands Hatch. Additional cost so far? NOTHING! The patch, designed primarily to tweak a few minor *** problems, update for FF and on-line ***, is released in July. Additional cost? NOTHING! Summary.............for over 9 months we have received more enjoyment than you would ever have believed possible from a $70-00 package. I really, really wish that all other aspects of my life provided such value for money.

Hear, Hear! Well spoken, fellow racing sim lover! Finally someone with a clear mind and a clear voice!!! ---Asgeir---

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> Regarding GPL and "The Patch", has anyone said to themselves, "Whoa there! > Just what the hell am I ***ing about?!!" when they've become pissed-off > about the patch not working properly on their system? > Put it into context......... > Here in Oz the game cost (about) AUS $70 when released last October. It has > been the most problem-free racing sim ever released. > Since October, there have been more enhancements produced for GPL than you > can poke a stick at.......tweaks, sounds, graphics.....you name it, somebody > has done it, including the addition of a very professionally-produced Brands > Hatch. Additional cost so far? NOTHING! > The patch, designed primarily to tweak a few minor *** problems, update > for FF and on-line ***, is released in July. Additional cost? NOTHING! > Summary.............for over 9 months we have received more enjoyment than > you would ever have believed possible from a $70-00 package. > I really, really wish that all other aspects of my life provided such value > for money.

On Wed, 14 Jul 1999 23:13:41 +1000, "Bruce Kennewell"

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>Regarding GPL and "The Patch", has anyone said to themselves, "Whoa there! >Just what the hell am I ***ing about?!!" when they've become pissed-off >about the patch not working properly on their system? >Put it into context......... >Here in Oz the game cost (about) AUS $70 when released last October. It has >been the most problem-free racing sim ever released. >Since October, there have been more enhancements produced for GPL than you >can poke a stick at.......tweaks, sounds, graphics.....you name it, somebody >has done it, including the addition of a very professionally-produced Brands >Hatch. Additional cost so far? NOTHING! >The patch, designed primarily to tweak a few minor *** problems, update >for FF and on-line ***, is released in July. Additional cost? NOTHING! >Summary.............for over 9 months we have received more enjoyment than >you would ever have believed possible from a $70-00 package. >I really, really wish that all other aspects of my life provided such value >for money.

Well said, Bruce, and entirely correct. Everyone who is having problems with the patch can whine all they want, but you all look ridiculous. (I'm speaking of the whiners, not people who simply state the problems they are having and work towards resolving them. You know------who you-----------are.) You didn't DESERVE the patch when you plunked down your payola, Papy didn't OWE you the patch, and yet you got a patch. Get over it. If you don't like it, go play whatever incredible game it is that sets the ridiculous standard that you expect GPL to compare to. Better yet, if you think GPL sucks so bad, go code a racing simulation--from any era--that blows it away. Sorry to sound like a Papy fanatic, but if you are coming here to whine about being owed this or that, you're way off base. When you carried GPL out of the store, you had a sim worth the money you paid, and you all know it--or you should have returned it. Bottom line is that Papy have produced the best racing sims since I've been using a computer, and GPL continues that tradition, by leaving *everything* else way back in the dust. Everyone have a nice day. Brett

100% true words, Bruce. But it's just that now I've tasted the ff in gpl, I never want to go back to the 1.0 gpl without the ff. And my 2 main goals with gpl are online racing, which has some new problems with the patch (the slo-mo thing) and hotlapping. Hotlapping is now impossible because of the gpl time vs real time problems. The lap times are not correct anymore. I allways have hated Grand Prix 2 because of the real time problems. And now GPL has the same problems for many people. Only a very few people are really ***ing about the new patch (hello Douglas Haithcock) but I think the other reactions are quite normal. Everybody loves the new features of the patch but some of the problems really have to get ironed out. Andre On Wed, 14 Jul 1999 23:13:41 +1000, "Bruce Kennewell"

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>Regarding GPL and "The Patch", has anyone said to themselves, "Whoa there! >Just what the hell am I ***ing about?!!" when they've become pissed-off >about the patch not working properly on their system? >Put it into context......... >Here in Oz the game cost (about) AUS $70 when released last October. It has >been the most problem-free racing sim ever released. >Since October, there have been more enhancements produced for GPL than you >can poke a stick at.......tweaks, sounds, graphics.....you name it, somebody >has done it, including the addition of a very professionally-produced Brands >Hatch. Additional cost so far? NOTHING! >The patch, designed primarily to tweak a few minor *** problems, update >for FF and on-line ***, is released in July. Additional cost? NOTHING! >Summary.............for over 9 months we have received more enjoyment than >you would ever have believed possible from a $70-00 package. >I really, really wish that all other aspects of my life provided such value >for money.

I agree. Funny how people need to threaten to write a bad review of GPL because of this situation.

The difference however is that the developer knows of it and is working to find out why it is doing this and how to fix it. :)

Hear, Hear. Exactly my sentiments. Thank you Randy for the Patch, and Papyrus for the game.

Exactly! Report your problems, report your settings, report any efforts to fix the problems and the results, but please try to do it in a calm and reasonable fashion. If it all gets to be too much, take a break and run the original gpl.exe for a change. It's still the most amazing auto racing sim I've ever run and it has completely spoiled me for any others; F1RS, MGPRS2... they're still fun but not -compelling- the way GPL is. Sure I'd like to see the patch working 100% and I'm tweaking away and it is getting better... not perfect yet, but I'll eat a bug of my choice if Randy isn't spending hours doing the same. Patience... J. P. Hovercraft ------------

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> 100% true words, Bruce. > But it's just that now I've tasted the ff in gpl, I never want to go > back to the 1.0 gpl without the ff. > And my 2 main goals with gpl are online racing, which has some new > problems with the patch (the slo-mo thing) and hotlapping. Hotlapping > is now impossible because of the gpl time vs real time problems. The > lap times are not correct anymore. > I allways have hated Grand Prix 2 because of the real time problems. > And now GPL has the same problems for many people. > Only a very few people are really ***ing about the new patch (hello > Douglas Haithcock) but I think the other reactions are quite normal. > Everybody loves the new features of the patch but some of the problems > really have to get ironed out. > Andre > On Wed, 14 Jul 1999 23:13:41 +1000, "Bruce Kennewell" > >Regarding GPL and "The Patch", has anyone said to themselves, "Whoa there! > >Just what the hell am I ***ing about?!!" when they've become pissed-off > >about the patch not working properly on their system? > >Put it into context......... > >Here in Oz the game cost (about) AUS $70 when released last October. It has > >been the most problem-free racing sim ever released. > >Since October, there have been more enhancements produced for GPL than you > >can poke a stick at.......tweaks, sounds, graphics.....you name it, somebody > >has done it, including the addition of a very professionally-produced Brands > >Hatch. Additional cost so far? NOTHING! > >The patch, designed primarily to tweak a few minor *** problems, update > >for FF and on-line ***, is released in July. Additional cost? NOTHING! > >Summary.............for over 9 months we have received more enjoyment than > >you would ever have believed possible from a $70-00 package. > >I really, really wish that all other aspects of my life provided such value > >for money.

Wow! Now, there's someone with clear-thinking, common sense! Flame him!! <G> Rob Swindells 4th in Goldline Bearing FFord Championship (12 Points); 8 points behined Championship Leader (as of round 3 of 6)

Big Double Ditto!! I only paid $29.99+tax US when it was on sale with a rebate.. imho Papy has put out some great sims you know it & I know.. {sssshhhhh; I still wish they'd make icr3 or cart3. <g>} Ok I will get off my soap box for someone else to use now..Next! All constructive comments are welcome but flamers are ignored. Cheers Thom_j.

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> I agree. Funny how people need to threaten to write a bad review of GPL > because of this situation. > > Regarding GPL and "The Patch", has anyone said to themselves, "Whoa

there! > > Just what the hell am I ***ing about?!!" when they've become pissed-off

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> > about the patch not working properly on their system? > > Put it into context......... > > Here in Oz the game cost (about) AUS $70 when released last October. It > has > > been the most problem-free racing sim ever released. > > Since October, there have been more enhancements produced for GPL than

you

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> > can poke a stick at.......tweaks, sounds, graphics.....you name it, > somebody > > has done it, including the addition of a very professionally-produced > Brands > > Hatch. Additional cost so far? NOTHING! > > The patch, designed primarily to tweak a few minor *** problems,

update > > for FF and on-line ***, is released in July. Additional cost? > NOTHING! > > Summary.............for over 9 months we have received more enjoyment than > > you would ever have believed possible from a $70-00 package. > > I really, really wish that all other aspects of my life provided such > value > > for money.

LOL ;-) I'll say constructive-criticism is what people are doing here (except Mr. .......................), but I do agree that the GPL patch adds great things for online racing and FF, even if at the moment there is situations where people have problems with slomo driving, real-time not equalling sim-time and big framerate/warp difference during online racing. -- -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard/Nas-Frank> -- NROS Nascar sanctioned Guide http://www.nros.com/ -- SimRacing Online http://www.simracing.com/ -- Official mentally retarded guy of r.a.s. -- May the Downforce be with you... "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Well said Bruce, even if I add up the price of GPL + an FF wheel + my ISP costs per month to do online racing, it is *much* cheaper (and a whole lot more forgiving on my body) than any other type of real life racing, which it provides a very close experience to. At least around here racing Karts at a track costs US$120/hr ($20 for 10mins), or to actually run in a Kart league you are talking probably $2000-$3000 for the Kart itself plus fuel parts and other costs, not to mention repair when you make mistakes or get involved in other people's mistakes. Compared to that, I think the wonderful racing experience we get from GPL + VROC is a terrific value and I'm thankful to Papyrus and also the great people who put out VROC, GSB and all the other GPL utilities (that we sometimes take for granted), for making this experience available to us at such a relatively low cost. Yes the patch has some quirks but I'm sure they will get fixed, (especially I hope they fix the online code) in the mean-time even with the new problems GPL still beats any other Auto Sim out there (especially with the new FF) Seeyas on the track. --John (Joao) Silva >Regarding GPL and "The Patch", has anyone said to themselves, "Whoa there! >Just what the hell am I ***ing about?!!" when they've become pissed-off >about the patch not working properly on their system? >Put it into context......... SNIP!

well said bruce but i can understand the whining and the complaints because it shows that this sim is very dear to a lot of people's hearts and it must be devastaing for them to have installed it and find out that the previous unpatched version was more stable.I only have one major beef so far.....and this comes sometimes with a lot of software not GPL included.....the readme.txt file could be written a little less technically to appease to the more UNtechnical users out there and I am sure there are many.....A lot of users fail or get lost in the terms because they arent interested in reading about them...they just want to play the darn game.heck I am guilty of it myself and I bet you so are a lot of others. As far as these free things available for the game......sometimes i wonder if there arent too many ot them...

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> Regarding GPL and "The Patch", has anyone said to themselves, "Whoa there! > Just what the hell am I ***ing about?!!" when they've become pissed-off > about the patch not working properly on their system? > Put it into context......... > Here in Oz the game cost (about) AUS $70 when released last October. It has > been the most problem-free racing sim ever released. > Since October, there have been more enhancements produced for GPL than you > can poke a stick at.......tweaks, sounds, graphics.....you name it, somebody > has done it, including the addition of a very professionally-produced Brands > Hatch. Additional cost so far? NOTHING! > The patch, designed primarily to tweak a few minor *** problems, update > for FF and on-line ***, is released in July. Additional cost? NOTHING! > Summary.............for over 9 months we have received more enjoyment than > you would ever have believed possible from a $70-00 package. > I really, really wish that all other aspects of my life provided such value > for money.

>Sure I'd like to see the patch working 100% and I'm tweaking away and it is >getting better... not perfect yet, but I'll eat a bug of my choice if Randy isn't >spending hours doing the same. A bug of YOUR choice? That's not how it works pal. R.A.S gets to vote on the choice of bug. I vote for a nice, juicy slug. ;-) Joe McGinn ========================================== Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network [link lost in import: /***.com/] ==========================================

>The patch, designed primarily to tweak a few minor *** problems, update >for FF and on-line ***, is released in July. Additional cost? NOTHING! Well first off, only a tiny minority are "***ing". Most complaints I've seen are calmly reporting problems. Well that's true ... that doesn't mean I have to like having the product taken away. If you race online, and can't get 1.1 working, that's effectively what's happened, since no one's really racing 1.0 online anymore. Agsin, I'm not ***ing. I do believe Papy is working hard to diagnose and resolve these issues. And I appreciate their efforts on the patch. My disapointment is as much a compliment as anything, that I will WANT to play the game after this much time. So if a little frustration seeps through in some of the complaints I understand it. But while I don't like the problems, I certainly agree there's no justification for flaming Papy/Randy et al. They provide the kind of incredible quality products, service and customer interaction that is generally unavailable in this industry. And I have FAR more confidence that the problems will eventually be resolved than I would for just about any other software developer. Joe McGinn ========================================== Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network [link lost in import: /***.com/] ==========================================

>I agree. Funny how people need to threaten to write a bad review of GPL >because of this situation. It's funny you know. People [especially people in sim groups] are always complaining about ignorant reviewers, about reviewers who don't even check their facts before spouting off in an editorial or review. So here I am telling everyone what my problems with the software are, what my deadline is, basically making every effort to both get my facts right and to get the sim running as well as it possibly can. And getting flamed for it. Go figure. Joe McGinn ========================================== Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network [link lost in import: /***.com/] ==========================================

>> I allways have hated Grand Prix 2 because of the real time problems. >> And now GPL has the same problems for many people. >The difference however is that the developer knows of it and is working to >find out why it is doing this and how to fix it. :) And a very big difference that is. If it was anyone but Papy, I'd be much more pessimistic and upset about the problems. Joe McGinn ========================================== Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network [link lost in import: /***.com/] ==========================================

Thanks :o)

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> Hear, Hear! > Well spoken, fellow racing sim lover! > Finally someone with a clear mind and a clear voice!!! > ---Asgeir--- > > Regarding GPL and "The Patch", has anyone said to themselves, "Whoa

there! > > Just what the hell am I ***ing about?!!" when they've become pissed-off > > about the patch not working properly on their system? > > Put it into context......... > > Here in Oz the game cost (about) AUS $70 when released last October. It has > > been the most problem-free racing sim ever released. > > Since October, there have been more enhancements produced for GPL than you > > can poke a stick at.......tweaks, sounds, graphics.....you name it, somebody > > has done it, including the addition of a very professionally-produced Brands > > Hatch. Additional cost so far? NOTHING! > > The patch, designed primarily to tweak a few minor *** problems, update > > for FF and on-line ***, is released in July. Additional cost? NOTHING! > > Summary.............for over 9 months we have received more enjoyment than > > you would ever have believed possible from a $70-00 package. > > I really, really wish that all other aspects of my life provided such value > > for money.

That's a --------BIT-------harsh - but - ENTIRELY -------fair. LOL Ben > On Wed, 14 Jul 1999 23:13:41 +1000, "Bruce Kennewell" > >Regarding GPL and "The Patch", has anyone said to themselves, "Whoa there! > >Just what the hell am I ***ing about?!!" when they've become pissed-off > >about the patch not working properly on their system? > >Put it into context......... > >Here in Oz the game cost (about) AUS $70 when released last October. It has > >been the most problem-free racing sim ever released. > >Since October, there have been more enhancements produced for GPL than you > >can poke a stick at.......tweaks, sounds, graphics.....you name it, somebody > >has done it, including the addition of a very professionally-produced Brands > >Hatch. Additional cost so far? NOTHING! > >The patch, designed primarily to tweak a few minor *** problems, update > >for FF and on-line ***, is released in July. Additional cost? NOTHING! > >Summary.............for over 9 months we have received more enjoyment than > >you would ever have believed possible from a $70-00 package. > >I really, really wish that all other aspects of my life provided such value

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> >for money. > Well said, Bruce, and entirely correct. > Everyone who is having problems with the patch can whine all they > want, but you all look ridiculous. (I'm speaking of the whiners, not > people who simply state the problems they are having and work towards > resolving them. You know------who you-----------are.) > You didn't DESERVE the patch when you plunked down your payola, Papy > didn't OWE you the patch, and yet you got a patch. > Get over it. If you don't like it, go play whatever incredible game > it is that sets the ridiculous standard that you expect GPL to compare > to. Better yet, if you think GPL sucks so bad, go code a racing > simulation--from any era--that blows it away. > Sorry to sound like a Papy fanatic, but if you are coming here to > whine about being owed this or that, you're way off base. When you > carried GPL out of the store, you had a sim worth the money you paid, > and you all know it--or you should have returned it. > Bottom line is that Papy have produced the best racing sims since I've > been using a computer, and GPL continues that tradition, by leaving > *everything* else way back in the dust. > Everyone have a nice day. > Brett

Simracers are a hard to please bunch Joe. ;-) Jan. ------

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><snip> >It's funny you know. People [especially people in sim groups] are >always complaining about ignorant reviewers, about reviewers who don't >even check their facts before spouting off in an editorial or review. >So here I am telling everyone what my problems with the software are, >what my deadline is, basically making every effort to both get my >facts right and to get the sim running as well as it possibly can. And >getting flamed for it. Go figure. >Joe McGinn >========================================== >Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network >[link lost in import: /***.com/] >==========================================

I second that... well said Bruce. Jan. ------ >Regarding GPL and "The Patch", has anyone said to themselves, "Whoa there! >Just what the hell am I ***ing about?!!" <snip>

On Wed, 14 Jul 1999 10:53:23 -0500, "Chris Schletter" >> I allways have hated Grand Prix 2 because of the real time problems. >> And now GPL has the same problems for many people. >The difference however is that the developer knows of it and is working to >find out why it is doing this and how to fix it. :) And when they fix it I'll be handing out more kudos! <G> ;-) -- JB

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>>> I allways have hated Grand Prix 2 because of the real time problems. >>> And now GPL has the same problems for many people. >>The difference however is that the developer knows of it and is working to >>find out why it is doing this and how to fix it. :) >And a very big difference that is. If it was anyone but Papy, I'd be >much more pessimistic and upset about the problems.

Agreed -- they didn't have to do the patch, but they did. They don't have to find a fix for the problems in the patch, but I'm sure they will! -- JB

Are you saying that consumers should be grateful for patches that get their product working as it was really intended? By this argument if you have a car with a design/construction flaw in the suspension that is dangerous you should be grateful to the car company for fixing it? Following your "put it into context" it seems that Papyrus who made the game have only made the patch. The rest has been provided by 3rd parties for no cost to ourselves. Be grateful to them but not the company, they're making a business decision. Witness the FPS scene and *** 2. No support for it because it didn't sell and there's no need to keep the customers happy as it's the end of that particular franchise. Papyrus want to keep selling games and by keeping the public happy they ensure that the people who buy their games feel good about them. Okay so whatever you paid for it may be a bargain if you've played it a lot however I see no reason to expect anything other than working software and if the patch doesn't fix something or makes things worse then people are right to complain. Personally I don't mind... GPL was fine for me as it was (no online play for me) and I won't be patching it. I will still be buying Papyrus software and I'll still be amazed at their work. M p.s. Incidentally Bruce... are you saying that your significant's unconditional love other isn't value for money? :P

Rearrange the words to get: p.s. Incidentally Bruce... are you saying that your significant others unconditional love isn't value for money? :P

(snip) By this argument if you have a car with a design/construction flaw in the suspension that is dangerous you should be grateful to the car company for fixing it? (unsnip) Shocking analogy! I see no connection between a $70 computer GAME (that I've used happily for 9 months) and a deadly suspension flaw in my car!!! LOL!!!! (snip) The rest has been provided by 3rd parties for no cost to ourselves. Be grateful to them but not the company, they're making a business decision. (unsnip) Grateful? Sure I'm grateful but the enhancements wouldn't have been created if (a) GPL never saw the light of day and (b) it was a pathetic excuse for a sim. I am, therefore, more grateful to Papyrus as it (GPL) is still a delight straight from the box. (snip) Personally I don't mind... GPL was fine for me as it was (no online play for me) and I won't be patching it. I will still be buying Papyrus software and I'll still be amazed at their work. (unsnip) Well what the hell are you going on about, then??

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> Are you saying that consumers should be grateful for patches that get > their product working as it was really intended? By this argument if you > have a car with a design/construction flaw in the suspension that is > dangerous you should be grateful to the car company for fixing it? > Following your "put it into context" it seems that Papyrus who made the > game have only made the patch. The rest has been provided by 3rd parties > for no cost to ourselves. Be grateful to them but not the company, > they're making a business decision. > Witness the FPS scene and *** 2. No support for it because it didn't > sell and there's no need to keep the customers happy as it's the end of > that particular franchise. Papyrus want to keep selling games and by > keeping the public happy they ensure that the people who buy their games > feel good about them. > Okay so whatever you paid for it may be a bargain if you've played it a > lot however I see no reason to expect anything other than working > software and if the patch doesn't fix something or makes things worse > then people are right to complain. > Personally I don't mind... GPL was fine for me as it was (no online play > for me) and I won't be patching it. I will still be buying Papyrus > software and I'll still be amazed at their work. > M > p.s. > Incidentally Bruce... are you saying that your significant's > unconditional love other isn't value for money? :P > >Regarding GPL and "The Patch", has anyone said to themselves, "Whoa > >there! Just what the hell am I ***ing about?!!" when they've become > >pissed-off about the patch not working properly on their system? > >Put it into context......... > >Here in Oz the game cost (about) AUS $70 when released last October. It > >has been the most problem-free racing sim ever released. > >Since October, there have been more enhancements produced for GPL than > >you can poke a stick at.......tweaks, sounds, graphics.....you name it, > >somebody has done it, including the addition of a very professionally > >-produced Brands Hatch. Additional cost so far? NOTHING! > >The patch, designed primarily to tweak a few minor *** problems, > >update for FF and on-line ***, is released in July. Additional cost? > > NOTHING! > >Summary.............for over 9 months we have received more enjoyment > >than you would ever have believed possible from a $70-00 package. > >I really, really wish that all other aspects of my life provided such > >value for money.

: Are you saying that consumers should be grateful for patches that get : their product working as it was really intended? By this argument if you : have a car with a design/construction flaw in the suspension that is : dangerous you should be grateful to the car company for fixing it? Tenuous argument. I would compare it more to redesigning the instrument panel to improve ergonomics, or increasing engine output 5hp for the next model year. the previous car wasn't perfect, it could be better, but it wasn't dangerous. S.

I like repeating myself. I keep reading these posts about how everyone should be kind/grateful/loving/ to Papyrus for their work and no one should dare complain for a second. That's fine actually (no doubt at all that they will fix the patch), but only if you and everyone else who believes this acts the same polite way towards other companies when they attempt a sim of their own. I see the same people (surprise) demanding respect for Papyrus's efforts who recently shredded EA for their Nascar sim, and a number of other companies efforts over the past two years. Last time I checked those companies were made up of actual human beings who were doing their best too, but I guess I could be wrong. I hope you guys will continue with the ridiciulous cheerleading and double talk. It's all very amusing. Has been for many, many, months. David G Fisher

The difference is that GPL is so much closer to being what we want, that perhaps there is caution not to overly criticise for fear of pissing the developers off to not give us our panacea but go off to do something else. Its almost child like - you know when you really want someone to do something for you and you are ever so careful not to upset them. So if another developer produces a poor product yes they will be slammed - Papyrus produced a very good product - now we want them to make it better - hence the different approach. Having said that the 1.1 patch is very disappointing considering the delays apparently for testing and bug fixing. I don't believe Papyrus should be beyond criticism - my expectations were raised way too high that 1.1 would solve the on-line issues. Admittedly no other developer has come up with a better on-line solution, just that I feel let down that on-line racing is still decidedly flaky for me. So please please Papyrus - if I am really nice will you fix it for me - I didn't really mean it - honest! Tony

You seem to have a point there, but.... Every aspiring competitor goes into a hyperbole about physics realism, AI intelligence and such like in early press releases for the game. But when the thing finally gets released it, at best, turns out to be a half way effort. The best of this genre mange to entertain (eg. TOCA2), others frustrate both types of players (sim and arcade, eg. NasRev). They've just not come up with the goods.... more talented programmers or less big bucks oriented publishers are required. The designation Racing Simulation has to be earned. It means the game must conform to the level of realism we, the simracing community, have come to expect (and GPL has put the bar very, very high indeed) and must present a decent level of challenge to said community. Otherwise you're talking halfway or "general public" at best. Jan. ------

Excellent points, Jan.

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> You seem to have a point there, but.... > Every aspiring competitor goes into a hyperbole about physics realism, AI > intelligence and such like in early press releases for the game. But when > the thing finally gets released it, at best, turns out to be a half way > effort. The best of this genre mange to entertain (eg. TOCA2), others > frustrate both types of players (sim and arcade, eg. NasRev). They've just > not come up with the goods.... more talented programmers or less big bucks > oriented publishers are required. > The designation Racing Simulation has to be earned. It means the game must > conform to the level of realism we, the simracing community, have come to > expect (and GPL has put the bar very, very high indeed) and must present a > decent level of challenge to said community. Otherwise you're talking > halfway or "general public" at best. > Jan. > ------ > >I like repeating myself. > ><snip>

Yes, let's. You all are playing with each other and guys like me and Mark S. can sit and twiddle our thumbs. The patch has some great features, but they've gone too far in optimizing it for faster machines. It just plain does not work on my machine. Period. If you think I'm whining then pphhhhllllllllllbt! Now me and Mark can set up our own server that allows us 'original' guys, but who's going to come play with us? Having tasted online, I can tell you I don't like being excluded. "It has been the most problem-free racing sim ever released." Good point. The first sign of a sloppy technician is one who looks for problems that aren't there. -- Mark Jeangerard www.soundchaserweb.com New Mexico USA

I suspect help is on the way since Alison Hine was hosting a race last night which had as a comment line "testing GPL 1.1.0.4, please help". It was full by the way so I would guess that .4 addresses some of the problems that we've seen in the .3 version David Erb > Yes, let's. > You all are playing with each other and guys like me and Mark S. can sit and > twiddle our thumbs. The patch has some great features, but they've gone too > far in optimizing it for faster machines. It just plain does not work on my > machine. Period. If you think I'm whining then pphhhhllllllllllbt! Now me > and Mark can set up our own server that allows us 'original' guys, but who's

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> going to come play with us? Having tasted online, I can tell you I don't > like being excluded. > "It has been the most problem-free racing sim ever released." Good point. > The first sign of a sloppy technician is one who looks for problems that > aren't there. > -- > Mark Jeangerard > www.soundchaserweb.com > New Mexico USA > > Regarding GPL and "The Patch", has anyone said to themselves, "Whoa

there! > > Just what the hell am I ***ing about?!!" when they've become pissed-off

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> > about the patch not working properly on their system? > > Put it into context......... > > Here in Oz the game cost (about) AUS $70 when released last October. It > has > > been the most problem-free racing sim ever released. > > Since October, there have been more enhancements produced for GPL than

you

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> > can poke a stick at.......tweaks, sounds, graphics.....you name it, > somebody > > has done it, including the addition of a very professionally-produced > Brands > > Hatch. Additional cost so far? NOTHING! > > The patch, designed primarily to tweak a few minor *** problems,

update > > for FF and on-line ***, is released in July. Additional cost? > NOTHING! > > Summary.............for over 9 months we have received more enjoyment than > > you would ever have believed possible from a $70-00 package. > > I really, really wish that all other aspects of my life provided such > value > > for money.

Thanks. I hope they get to the controller latency as well. :-) -- Mark Jeangerard www.soundchaserweb.com New Mexico USA > I suspect help is on the way since Alison Hine was hosting a race last night > which had as a comment line "testing GPL 1.1.0.4, please help". It was full > by the way so I would guess that .4 addresses some of the problems that > we've seen in the .3 version > David Erb > > Yes, let's.