GPL Force Feedback is a Frame Rate Killer

p3 500 + voodoo 3 With FF in training.......29-33 FPS without...........................36 with 20 cars Bummer

I wonder if he has the Thrustmaster. There's no frame-rate hit at all with my Logitech USB FF wheel. Joe McGinn ========================================== Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network [link lost in import: /***.com/] ==========================================

Which FF wheel do you have? Eric

>p3 500 + voodoo 3 >With FF in training.......29-33 FPS >without...........................36 with 20 cars Might have something to do with your FF wheel too. I think Randy Cassidy posted some overhead measurements for different FF wheels and there were big differences. all the time, oh and the wheel is Logitech Formula Force USB. -Juha --

I've noticed virtually no change in framerate with my MSFF. I know it was supposed to be one of the slower ones but I haven't seen any change... except in the driving experience. Wow, I've never felt force feedback like this in any game! Viper racing pales in comparison. Bravo, Papy!

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>p3 500 + voodoo 3 >With FF in training.......29-33 FPS >without...........................36 with 20 cars >Bummer

You#ve set something up wrong! pII333 64mb 36fps no FF 36+fps with

On Fri, 9 Jul 1999 13:59:54 -0700, Not on my PII-375 / ACTLABS Force RS . -- * rrevved at mindspring dot com * unit.26 - s.p.u.t.u.m. * http://www.cabal.net * http://www.sputum.com

Not on my system.. Celeron 300A clocked at 464mhz + Voodoo2 + Logitech FF wheel FPS stayed the same.... and the FF feels great. Seeyas on the track. --John (Joao) Silva

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>p3 500 + voodoo 3 >With FF in training.......29-33 FPS >without...........................36 with 20 cars >Bummer

So what type of effects are we talking about here? Inertia? Loss of grip? What? Thanks, -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

Hi Joe, What FR are you getting with the Wingman? And what system do you have? Thanks, Sky

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> >Which FF wheel do you have? > I wonder if he has the Thrustmaster. There's no frame-rate hit at all > with my Logitech USB FF wheel. > Joe McGinn > ========================================== > Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network > [link lost in import: /***.com/] > ==========================================

Well, I have I MSFF wheel a V3 and pII o/c to 500mhz. Prior to the patch I use to have 36 fps solid. Now I don't. I had to lower the level of details in order to regain a few frames per second. But I must admit that it was expected since the cpu has one added task which is to calculate the force feedback effect. But in my view that should only amount to about 2 and 5 fps loss in general. GPL behaved similarly on both my pc's. But now I seem to have a dramatic slow down in frame rate as I drive in and out or passed the pits. I o/c my other pc (pII 450) to 580mhz and borrowed more memory from another machine (256mb) and I am back to 36fps solid. The other pc running at 500mhz still doesn't give top performance. Anyway, I was unde the impression that the patch would cause a increase in frame rate, specially on low spec machines. The patched version of GPL seems more memory demanding than the original, but nevertheless I found it absolutely fantastic. No other game has implemented FF so well, I can't even tell where I ve got a knotch in the center of wheel. Wonderful. Congratulations Papyrus, definitely setting the standards for racing sims!

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>On Fri, 9 Jul 1999 13:59:54 -0700, >>p3 500 + voodoo 3 >>With FF in training.......29-33 FPS >>without...........................36 with 20 cars >>Bummer >Not on my PII-375 / ACTLABS Force RS .

I've got the same problem: I'm using a PII 266 with Creative Labs Voodoo2, I got 36 fps with 1024x768 before. When using the FF with my MS Sidewinder FF, the game plays like in slow motion... BTW, I don't like the force feedback of the Sidewinder at all, I tried several games using FF, but I got dissapointed by all of them (except FS98). I played Viper Racing with FF, but I liked it much more without, why? Are FF wheels that much better for racing games? I would never play GPL with FF on, even if the game didn't slow down. Should I buy a wheel? Dex

>What FR are you getting with the Wingman? >And what system do you have? A pretty consistent 36 FPS. P2 300, 128MB RAM, 12MB Voodoo2. Of course I don't run with a full field of AI cars on this system. I notice frame-rate drops very quickly in GPL as it makes it very difficult for me to drive. Joe McGinn ========================================== Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network [link lost in import: /***.com/] ==========================================

>So what type of effects are we talking about here? Inertia? >Loss of grip? What? Grip and inertia primarily. But here's the capper: GPL has 3D physics, and this is integrated into the 3D support. So the inertia works in all six directions: up, down, left, right, back, forwards. And you FEEL all of those weight transfers through the wheel. Pretty incredible. The grip feedback is also superb. Joe McGinn ========================================== Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network [link lost in import: /***.com/] ==========================================

Weird, I have P2 266 and Creative Labs Voodoo2, MS FF and have solid 36fps in 640x480 mode with FF on and I _never_ have get even near 36fps in 800x600 or 1024x768...not even with 1.0...are you sure even had 36fps earlier? I doubt it...If you had, you must have _everything_ turned off...How do you know the braking points if you don't have grooves, trees, objects and detail bias completely left?

Well, you might not believe it, but I really have 36fps in 1024x768 with all details turned on and detail bias full right. Did you play with the full field of cars when looking at your fps? I'm talking about training mode without any opponents.

Sorry, small correction!!!!!!! I just started GPL and tried the different resolutions to see if I was right at all, and I noticed, that I wasn't playing in 1024x768, but in 800x600. The reason I thought it was 1024x768 is, that GPL *seems* to change to 1024x768, but doesn't. First I chose 640x480, the screen was very bright and a bit pixellated (is that the right word?), then I changed to 800x600, the screen got a bit darker, and less pixellated. Finally I chose 1024x768, and the screen got a lot darker now. And that let me believe, that GPL successfully changed to 1024x768, although it didn't. I never compared the three resolutions before, so I always thought I was playing in 1024, although I wondered sometimes, because I know that a single Voodoo2 card can't make 1024. Sorry for that! Dex

I used to get 36 fps all the time,but now with 1.1 patch it doesnt matter what screen res or detail level i have it set to i always get 25 fps weird.occasionally popping up to 27 640*480 all details off = 25 fps Mirrors only cars,full left bias etc,you get the picture 1024*768 with all details on = 25 fps(including full mirrors specular etc) and it makes no difference wether FF is on or off either. With or without other cars on track too. Hmmmmmmmmm,i cant understand it this is on a PII 450 384mb ram righteous 3d2's 12 mb sli'd SBLive LW 2.1 Latest 3dfx ref drivers glide 2.56 Using the gplUK1.1 patch. Still i think its a damn good patch ,the FF is phenominal and it does seem to run smoothly even if it is only running at 25 fps but it is a very consistent 25 fps. But i certainly notice a difference -- Vince Fisher

Florian Kernler schrieb: I couldn't use a joystick for a racing sim for one lap, no way. There are magic beings who are able to drive lap records with a joystick, but just for immersion I wouldn't use a joystick for driving a car. Well, you should at least try a wheel if possible. Zandvoort was just too much for me before, but now with FF I can FEEL when I'm going to loose the car and I can now recover from slides that would have "killed" me before... Oh, and no noticable reduction in framerate on my P2-333 with MS FF wheel. l8er ronny -- How to get rid of censorship in German game releases <http://www.gamesmania.com/german/maniac/freedom/freedom.htm> |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather, ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep. |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car, '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

>I remember some people were saying that "it can't be that difficult to drive >in a straight line" in a car. Well, with the addition of FF, it isn't. Yup. It's not just cornering, it actually feels like a real car down the straights now. Joe McGinn ========================================== Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network [link lost in import: /***.com/] ==========================================