auto sims give a head start on young drivers

Sounds like a newspaper heading doesn't it? One has to stop and realize that there is much to be gained from the world of driving simulations, besides fun and games. I was letting my elementary age daughter and her friend play on my home network the other day. They were "racing" each other in Need For Speed Porsche Unleashed. (Actually, they were attempting to drive the vehicles, much less race).Since her friend had never operated a steering wheel in a computer sim before, I couldn't help but wonder how beneficial a simulation was to a future prospective driver. Reaction times are critical to the safety of any driver in a real life situation, and simulations I believe, help coordinate those muscles at an earlier age to help overcome the fear barrier and instill confidence. This would make the the eventual computer to car transition much easier with the already instinctive knowledge of driving in place. So, the next time junior is racing on the computer instead of doing his homework, maybe let him finish the race. What he learns now might just save his or your life someday.

Rich wrote:

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> Sounds like a newspaper heading doesn't it? > One has to stop and realize that there is much to be gained from the > world of driving simulations, besides fun and games. > I was letting my elementary age daughter and her friend play on my > home network the other day. They were "racing" each other in Need For > Speed Porsche Unleashed. (Actually, they were attempting to drive the > vehicles, much less race).Since her friend had never operated a > steering wheel in a computer sim before, I couldn't help but wonder > how beneficial a simulation was to a future prospective driver. > Reaction times are critical to the safety of any driver in a real > life situation, and simulations I believe, help coordinate those > muscles at an earlier age to help overcome the fear barrier and > instill confidence. This would make the the eventual computer to car > transition much easier with the already instinctive knowledge of > driving in place. So, the next time junior is racing on the computer > instead of doing his homework, maybe let him finish the race. What he > learns now might just save his or your life someday.

Haha, I have had my two teenage kids driving in the tptcc series cars since it came out for NR2k3. The road courses having fast/slow, right/left involved makes it the best driving sim I have seen :) I just bought a ff wheel and NR2k3 for them since they do not live with me. When I told the ex she was asking about a real "learn to drive" sim. I have not seen one, though I have only searched a little. I told her I figure it is a liability issue. How would you like to be sued by some parent when their kid wrecks the family car after "learning" to drive with your software? Sean

I figure it is a liability issue. How would you > like to be sued by some parent when their kid wrecks the family car > after "learning" to drive with your software? > > Sean I think it was more of a sales issue. Sierra released one of those reall world driver teaching sims and I don't think too many folks went for for it

I race purely for lap times, actually...I buy the nice equipment and try to do as well as I can :) J.R. "Rich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:q0sAb.15392$d35.6312@edtnps84...

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> Sounds like a newspaper heading doesn't it? > One has to stop and realize that there is much to be gained from the world > of driving simulations, besides fun and games. > I was letting my elementary age daughter and her friend play on my home > network the other day. They were "racing" each other in Need For Speed > Porsche Unleashed. (Actually, they were attempting to drive the vehicles, > much less race).Since her friend had never operated a steering wheel in a > computer sim before, I couldn't help but wonder how beneficial a

simulation > was to a future prospective driver. Reaction times are critical to the > safety of any driver in a real life situation, and simulations I believe, > help coordinate those muscles at an earlier age to help overcome the fear > barrier and instill confidence. This would make the the eventual computerto > car transition much easier with the already instinctive knowledge ofdriving > in place. So, the next time junior is racing on the computer instead of > doing his homework, maybe let him finish the race. What he learns nowmight > just save his or your life someday. > > >

"Rich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:q0sAb.15392$d35.6312@edtnps84... > Sounds like a newspaper heading doesn't it? > One has to stop and realize that there is much to be gained from the world > of driving simulations, besides fun and games. >------------- So, the next time junior is racing on the computer instead of > doing his homework, maybe let him finish the race. What he learns nowmight > just save his or your life someday. This is something I'm passionate about, with a definitive "yes" to the value of training young people on sims. FYI, I have several years rallying experience, and have been involved in defensive driving and training programs for young drivers. Its amazing how many times I've turned up at the training track and seen the following scenario: A young driver turns up who is confident because he got a good pass on his/her driving test. They are given practical "before and after" tests. In the "before" test, at the start of the day, they are asked asked to drive down the road at moderate speed, then dodge around some witches' hats that represent a sudden obstacle ahead. Their reaction is to throw on full lock, hit the brakes, and understeer into the obstacle. Giving kids experience with semi-realistic sims/games will make them understand quickly about oversteer, understeer, balance and general car control at the limit. The really important thing is that it will become a reflex action in a real emergency, without them realising it. Even better would be a compulsary real life training day, say within a year of getting a learner's permit, before a full licence could be obtained. However, practicing online will save lives. Tim

I have been driving in sims since I was 9 or 10 (GP2) and I'm now going on 17. I have my license and my own car, a VW Golf GTi...and I can tell you, the sims have performed miracles. At the age of 15 before I had even driven a car on the road (I drove once before then) I did a RallyX in a Group 2 Mirage rally car, and was competitive and could keep pace with the person I was sharing the car with (and eventually got faster) It took some time to get a feel for it, but I knew exactly what to do, and my reactions were completely correct. I got my license in July, and a week after I got it, it began to rain one day coming home with my friend. I went around a busy, hard left, off camber, at like 20 mph and felt the car start to come away early. I started getting on the gas but the back end just whipped around. I was facing the car dealership on the other side of the road, but my foot was to the floor, with full opposite lock, and I saved it without hurling the car to the other side of the road, crossing the center line, or hitting the curb. It's made me a safer driver and helped me become competitive in racing instantly. I never had to learn what was right and what was wrong when driving a car...I always knew confidently before I hopped in. Thanks, Alex, GPLRank -30 something :) (Haven't updated it in 2 years) "Rich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:q0sAb.15392$d35.6312@edtnps84...

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> Sounds like a newspaper heading doesn't it? > One has to stop and realize that there is much to be gained from the world > of driving simulations, besides fun and games. > I was letting my elementary age daughter and her friend play on my home > network the other day. They were "racing" each other in Need For Speed > Porsche Unleashed. (Actually, they were attempting to drive the vehicles, > much less race).Since her friend had never operated a steering wheel in a > computer sim before, I couldn't help but wonder how beneficial a

simulation > was to a future prospective driver. Reaction times are critical to the > safety of any driver in a real life situation, and simulations I believe, > help coordinate those muscles at an earlier age to help overcome the fear > barrier and instill confidence. This would make the the eventual computerto > car transition much easier with the already instinctive knowledge ofdriving > in place. So, the next time junior is racing on the computer instead of > doing his homework, maybe let him finish the race. What he learns nowmight > just save his or your life someday. > > >

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>I have been driving in sims since I was 9 or 10 (GP2) and I'm now going on >17. I have my license and my own car, a VW Golf GTi...and I can tell you, >the sims have performed miracles. At the age of 15 before I had even driven >a car on the road (I drove once before then) I did a RallyX in a Group 2 >Mirage rally car, and was competitive and could keep pace with the person I >was sharing the car with (and eventually got faster) It took some time to >get a feel for it, but I knew exactly what to do, and my reactions were >completely correct.

I knew it was you before I even looked at the 'sender' field...<g> Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Member Screamers Racing League IICC League GPLRank -2.4 MoGPL rank +302.38 ChallengeRank +54.48 MoC +743.77 Hist. +82.82 MoH in progress N2k3 rank:in progress Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Eh, I've been playing racing sims since a kid and it did nothing to improve my real life driving...in fact the only thing it did do is make me drive insanely fast. Driving sims and real life driving are bearly even similar.

"Snoozer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Eh, I've been playing racing sims since a kid and > it did nothing to improve my real life driving...in fact > the only thing it did do is make me drive insanely fast. Have you ever given thought as to why you might be still alive? > > Driving sims and real life driving are bearly even similar. >

I find it has screwed up my focus. Although I am looking way "down the road" in sims, I am still focusing on a point about two feet in front of my face (the monitor). Often on the road for real I find myself focusing too close to the car...

Get a 3D card. That makes a big difference. If that doesn't work for you, there's a wonderful technology that corrects your vision problems. They're worn on the face on the bridge of the nose....I think they're called...gl...glasses? "Stephen F." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3fd5f993$[email hidden]... > I find it has screwed up my focus. Although I am looking way "down the > road" in sims, I am still focusing on a point about two feet in front ofmy > face (the monitor). Often on the road for real I find myself focusing too > close to the car... > >

"Rich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:mIzBb.36764$d35.32084@edtnps84... > Get a 3D card. That makes a big difference. > If that doesn't work for you, there's a wonderful technology that corrects > your vision problems. They're worn on the face on the bridge of the > nose....I think they're called...gl...glasses? > I have a 3D card, thank you. It doesn't change the fact that you are staring at a plane of pixels which are all the same (close) distance from your face. A lot of routine activities in daily life are influenced by experience. If you "teach" the muscles of your cornea that the activity of driving is associated with a focal length of about 2 feet, then it is not too far-fetched to think that this bad habit can occasionally creep into real-life driving. Perhaps I overstate the problem, by I do occasionally find I need to consciously think to look further up the road, especially if the ratio of sim to real driving swings too far towards the former (I commute by train and really only drive on weekends). And I do wear glasses.

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> > "Stephen F." <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:3fd5f993$[email hidden]... > > I find it has screwed up my focus. Although I am looking way "down the > > road" in sims, I am still focusing on a point about two feet in front of > my > > face (the monitor). Often on the road for real I find myself focusing

too > > close to the car... > > > > > >

On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 10:35:40 +0100, "Stephen F." <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> >"Rich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:mIzBb.36764$d35.32084@edtnps84... >> Get a 3D card. That makes a big difference. >> If that doesn't work for you, there's a wonderful technology that corrects >> your vision problems. They're worn on the face on the bridge of the >> nose....I think they're called...gl...glasses? >> > >I have a 3D card, thank you. It doesn't change the fact that you are >staring at a plane of pixels which are all the same (close) distance from >your face. A lot of routine activities in daily life are influenced by >experience. If you "teach" the muscles of your cornea that the activity of >driving is associated with a focal length of about 2 feet, then it is not >too far-fetched to think that this bad habit can occasionally creep into >real-life driving. Perhaps I overstate the problem, by I do occasionally >find I need to consciously think to look further up the road, especially if >the ratio of sim to real driving swings too far towards the former (I >commute by train and really only drive on weekends). And I do wear glasses. >

Are true holographic displays a possibility down the road? John DiFool

Stephen, thank-you for being a little more specific. I assumed that someone was trying to be a smart*** so I returned what I thought was a fitting response ;-). The problem you mention I'm sure is not just from using an autosim but generally caused by excessive use of a computer overall. Those who use them daily in their jobs and in their spare time could very well develop a fixed cornea as well as a host of other problems. My Grade 7 teacher used to tell us to continually relax our eyes by looking out the window to focus on long distance objects to avoid headaches from reading too close (as long as we didn't start daydreaming). Realize also, that one could blame an autosim on many other medical problems because it is associated with the computer. Examples would be as you have mentioned, plus carpal tunnel syndrome, dangerous blood clotting in the legs from sitting too much, hemorrhoids, and I'm sure a multitude of other ailments. I think that its essential for one to balance the activities in their life by doing other things as well. As addicting *and* educating as an autosim is, time away form the computer is as important. Exercise is vital in keeping the body from developing these complications. But to single out an autosim for these examples would be incorrect. I would think that an autosim probably requires more physical effort than any other application on a PC. Regards, Rich "Stephen F." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3fd6e8f1$[email hidden]... > > "Rich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:mIzBb.36764$d35.32084@edtnps84... > > Get a 3D card. That makes a big difference. > > If that doesn't work for you, there's a wonderful technology thatcorrects

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> > your vision problems. They're worn on the face on the bridge of the > > nose....I think they're called...gl...glasses? > > > > I have a 3D card, thank you. It doesn't change the fact that you are > staring at a plane of pixels which are all the same (close) distance from > your face. A lot of routine activities in daily life are influenced by > experience. If you "teach" the muscles of your cornea that the activity

of > driving is associated with a focal length of about 2 feet, then it is not > too far-fetched to think that this bad habit can occasionally creep into > real-life driving. Perhaps I overstate the problem, by I do occasionally > find I need to consciously think to look further up the road, especiallyif > the ratio of sim to real driving swings too far towards the former (I > commute by train and really only drive on weekends). And I do wearglasses. > > > > > "Stephen F." <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:3fd5f993$[email hidden]... > > > I find it has screwed up my focus. Although I am looking way "downthe > > > road" in sims, I am still focusing on a point about two feet in frontof

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> > my > > > face (the monitor). Often on the road for real I find myself focusing > too > > > close to the car... > > > > > > > > > > > >

"Stephen F." <[email hidden]> wrote in news:3fd5f993$[email hidden]: > I find it has screwed up my focus. Although I am looking way "down the > road" in sims, I am still focusing on a point about two feet in front > of my face (the monitor). Often on the road for real I find myself > focusing too close to the car...I find this connection very unlikely. If you're implying that your focusing habit makes you look at where you'd have monitor screen, you would be focusing on your windshield, meaning that you wouldn't be able to really see where you're going, which I hope is not the case ;-) To me it looks more likely that you're just focusing on the road too close to the car just because that's how you learned to drive (most people do it that way) and haven't translated [sim-]racing habit of looking further into road driving. I've noticed that I started to look further in a road car only when I discovered that that non-transparent thing between the windshield and side window really obstructs view in the corners:) Alex.

My 2 cents on auto sim. The only Auto sim I've played to date that actually could help ( my opinion ) is midtown madness. If played in the cruise mode. The driver will have to navigate city streets and encounter real life situations such as stopping at traffic lights, dealing with on coming traffic and not to mention some wacko tail gating. The list could go on. Personally, I have my two teens playing the game and driving the cars as they would a real car. The real test will be in an actual car in a few years. ugh! As for racing sims... well, it does help autosim'ers learn a little about oversteer , understeer, skiding ect. As for the downside, there are a number of issues that worry me. Flaming - and it's not only the kids but adults as well. Why? Because they were wrecked do to, in most cases, warp a bad setup or what ever the reason. Some of these people blow a gasket and it turns into an all out war. How will they act in the real world if someone cuts them off. Will they get out of their car and start a fight? What if they are coming up on a slower car? Will they punt them to the side? Could our kids be learning road rage by playing these games? I hope not. And the biggest worry I have is... SPEED. They, meaning kids and adults alike. Will hit speed of 200mph in a sim car. Will they try it with a real car on a real road?? Well that's about all I'm going to say on this matter.. so.. as for auto sims helping are young drivers...maybe the basic mechanics, but attitude is everything in the real world. okay one more issue.. Rich was saying something about autosim's, pc's causing eye problems. Believe him. I went through this very same problem. After playing autosims.. mainly nascar racing. Playing this game put my eyes under so much strain and stress to the point where I had a hard time moving my eyes much further then the width of a monitor. My eyes dried out and were very sensitive to light.. sort of getting the bug eye effect when in bright light..ugh.. that really sucked...so after a few months away from the game all is well. A good thing to do after each race is stretch your eyes. get up away from the pc and look out side and find the furthest away point and follow its horizon for a few minutes.. sounds stupid but it will help in the long run. Also there's and eye exercise my doc told me to do. Take a pen, hold it arms length away and have your eyes focused on the pen and move the pen left to right, up and down then bring it to your nose. Doing this a few times will have stretch your eyes. Also looking in to a monitor (crt) is like looking into your microwave.

In article <3fd5f993$[email hidden]>, "Stephen F." <[email hidden]> writes: >I find it has screwed up my focus. Although I am looking way "down the >road" in sims, I am still focusing on a point about two feet in front of my >face (the monitor). Often on the road for real I find myself focusing too >close to the car... I don't have any problem looking down the road in my real car. I just can't seem to do it in the sims... :-( Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Member Screamers Racing League IICC League GPLRank -2.4 MoGPL rank +302.38 ChallengeRank +54.48 MoC +743.77 Hist. +82.82 MoH in progress N2k3 rank:in progress Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (alexti) writes: >To me it looks more likely that you're just focusing on the road too close >to the car just because that's how you learned to drive (most people do >it that way) and haven't translated [sim-]racing habit of looking further >into road driving. I've noticed that I started to look further in a road >car only when I discovered that that non-transparent thing between >the windshield and side window really obstructs view in the corners:) Wow. I seem to be the only one who has mentioned NOT having problems looking down the road on the road, but do in a sim. On the road, I've seen that I often notice a problem in the road before the car in front of me does... So maybe most people DO 'drive the hood' of their road car. Interesting - I wish I understood why I see both situations differently. I'm sure that this probably has something to do with why I can't drive fast in the sims. Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Member Screamers Racing League IICC League GPLRank -2.4 MoGPL rank +302.38 ChallengeRank +54.48 MoC +743.77 Hist. +82.82 MoH in progress N2k3 rank:in progress Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"Rich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:5gIBb.41235$d35.16729@edtnps84... > response ;-). The problem you mention I'm sure is not just from using an > autosim but generally caused by excessive use of a computer overall. Those Agreed. > teacher used to tell us to continually relax our eyes by looking out the > window to focus on long distance objects to avoid headaches from readingtoo > close (as long as we didn't start daydreaming). Realize also, that onecould Luckily I have a nice view of the Bernese alps out my office window, but I still need to remind myself to look out the window. > autosim for these examples would be incorrect. I would think that anautosim > probably requires more physical effort than any other application on a PC. Then you've never seen me beat the crap out of my computer everytime my latest FE sim starts to diverge. cheers, Stephen

Agreed. could Luckily I have a nice view of the Bernese alps out my office window, but I still need to remind myself to look out the window. Then you've never seen me beat the ***out of my computer everytime my latest FE sim starts to diverge. cheers, Stephen

"alexti" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> "Stephen F." <[email hidden]> wrote in > news:3fd5f993$[email hidden]: > > > I find it has screwed up my focus. Although I am looking way "down the > > road" in sims, I am still focusing on a point about two feet in front > > of my face (the monitor). Often on the road for real I find myself > > focusing too close to the car... > I find this connection very unlikely. If you're implying that your

focusing

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> habit makes you look at where you'd have monitor screen, you would be > focusing on your windshield, meaning that you wouldn't be able to > really see where you're going, which I hope is not the case ;-) > To me it looks more likely that you're just focusing on the road too close > to the car just because that's how you learned to drive (most people do > it that way) and haven't translated [sim-]racing habit of looking further > into road driving. I've noticed that I started to look further in a road > car only when I discovered that that non-transparent thing between > the windshield and side window really obstructs view in the corners:)

So, I take it back. It's more likely the 8.5 hours a day of normal office computing than the 5 hours a week of simming. I probably should have seen the logic right away. Anyway, just so no one is concerned that there is a threat on the roads, I've overstated the problem by judicious use of the word "often". I've been driving for almost 20 years now, and generally am scanning a point anywhere from 400m - 1km ahead of my car. Accident free for those 20 years, with 7 deer/moose/bears avoided, and too many wrecks avoided to count, from being on top of what's happening way up the road. Driving in Germany and Italy quickly weeds out those who tend to concentrate on their hood... We now return to regular programming, and I will refrain from making outlandish claims... for a few days at least. :-) Stephen

"EldredP" wrote... > Wow. I seem to be the only one who has mentioned NOT having problemslooking > down the road on the road, but do in a sim. On the road, I've seen that I > often notice a problem in the road before the car in front of me does...So > maybe most people DO 'drive the hood' of their road car. Interesting - Iwish > I understood why I see both situations differently. I'm sure that this > probably has something to do with why I can't drive fast in the sims. Same here. I attribute the difference between real road and sim road to three things: -- there has never been a time on a real road that I drive as close to the car in front as I do at Daytona unless I'm in traffic at 6 mph; -- on the real road, I actually trust the guy in front of me (though this is undoubtedly unwarranted) more than I do in an online race, with warp and all; -- as you get closer to the car in front in a sim, he fills up your view more than a real car does. That's why I have much less trouble "driving the road" at any track where you're not drafting.