Abuse from a person in this news group

And we all care because??? Keep your pissing matches between yourselves. This group is about sim racing, not tough guy competitions.

Whatever your dosage is, double it immediately!!!!

Good!!!Maybe he will be successful in running your ***post off this NG. Hope not to see your posts again if this is all they will be about. Paul

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> This person s on a tirade against me, harassing me and I am outing > this person. I am contacting the appropriate authorities. While most > people here I am sure are good and just want to enjoy Sims, there are > some very mean, ***, and sick people here that need to be turned in > so they do not abuse others > ----------------- > -------------------------------------- > ICQ History Log For: > 28481913 mark > Started on Fri Jul 02 21:08:23 1999 > -------------------------------------- > mark 7/2/99 8:11 PM who exactly do you think you are? did you > think i wouldn't intercept your > little 'abuse' > message? > NASCAR/SQ 7/2/99 8:32 PM you have a lot of nerve I am very sick > and > you continue to abuse me. Youy are > lucky there > arre laws against someone grabbing > your ass > and stopping your abuse the old > fashioned way. > Now! do not ever hassle me again in > any way > shape or form! Do not ever contact > me again! > mark 7/2/99 8:34 PM what the hell are you talking about?? in > what > way have i ever abused you? if > anything i > defended you- albeit in a roundabout > way. yet > you threaten me physically and whine > to my > school (actually me) about me.... i > don't > understand. > NASCAR/SQ 7/2/99 8:38 PM You have chnace now befor ei contact the > police...think before you*** > up... > I am sick in severe pain and on > morphine, I am > not in a good mood and I have some > idiot > harassing me...do You want me to > continue? > mark 7/2/99 8:41 PM yes, i'd love for you to continue. and i > think > you must be on a lot more than > morphine. > please- call the police.... i'm sure > they're > as tired of your paranoid ravings as > the rest > of us in rasn and ras. and i have > yet to see > in what way i ever "harassed" you. > produce > evidence before you go > complaining.... > mark 7/2/99 8:42 PM quite honestly, you're the one harassing > me.... > NASCAR/SQ 7/2/99 8:43 PM You are asking for trouble and I am > giving you > a chance to back down...you do not > get it..you > cannot harass others, I wil do > whatever it > takes to stop you...leave me alone! > NASCAR/SQ 7/2/99 8:44 PM ok.have it your way...I hope that my > actions > help you undertstand, > nothing that makes sense gets throug > to > you!!!!!!! > goodbye > mark 7/2/99 8:44 PM hey, pal- you're the one who is doing the > harassing. you contacted me at my > school to > complain about .... what, exactly? > (nothing, > actually). so if anyone should "back > down" > (ooooh, you're so tough)-- it's most > assuredly > you. but i'd still like to know what > you're > accusing me of! > mark 7/2/99 8:46 PM oh, really? what "actions" do you > threaten > now? > i have saved all of your > correspondence. > perhaps you have me confused with > someone > else?? > mark 7/2/99 8:50 PM oh, man- stop! i can't take it anymore!! > your > "actions" are simply killing me.... > you're such a joke. > mark 7/2/99 9:04 PM wow- was that the best you could do??? > you're > even sadder than i thought. try > calling the > police instead!! hahahaha!! > ---------------------

nice post. did you include the part about your little "nuke" attack? this really has gone on long enough. i'm tiring of it. if you want, i'll let you know exactly how many folks support your point of view. **news flash**- this guy just called me at my *house* at 1:00AM to threaten me!! can you believe it?! the nerve of some people..... that kind of thing really is uncalled for....

On Sat, 03 Jul 1999 05:00:18 GMT, Please get over yourself. -- * rrevved at mindspring dot com * unit.26 - s.p.u.t.u.m. * http://www.cabal.net * http://www.sputum.com

So Mark, tell us all how nutty he sounded. Did it sound like he had a ball-mask on??? Did you hear any hamster wheels in the background??? The only reason I ask is because I've read on other NGs that he has a penchant for pounding small *** animals up is ass. The truth must be told. Please let us all know. Actually, after viewing his portrait on his webpage it appears as though he has a wiffle ball bat crammed up his butt. Was his voice in the soprano range???

pure # of syllables, i think. 'outing' comes from the process of 'coming out of the closet', btw. i don't think he was outing me in that sense, though- unless he knows something i don't :) mark "Outing" Yet another example of a perfectly good word, used for generations in the context (example) "We went on an outing to the beach", now being associated with ***ity. Just like the word "gay", once an innocuous English word that simply meant "happy". If ***ity is nothing to be ashamed about, why do those who have this bent hide behind the word "gay?

>This person s on a tirade against me, harassing me and I am outing >this person. I am contacting the appropriate authorities. [...] ***BREAKING NEWS*** RUN FOR YOUR LIVES !!! *PLONK* -- " Why bother..." - R. Crumb -

Just a few more months on the lithuim now and he will go away :-) Mark

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> This person s on a tirade against me, harassing me and I am outing > this person. I am contacting the appropriate authorities. While most > people here I am sure are good and just want to enjoy Sims, there are > some very mean, ***, and sick people here that need to be turned in > so they do not abuse others > ----------------- > -------------------------------------- > ICQ History Log For: > 28481913 mark > Started on Fri Jul 02 21:08:23 1999 > -------------------------------------- > mark 7/2/99 8:11 PM who exactly do you think you are? did you > think i wouldn't intercept your > little 'abuse' > message? > - > snipped.. > well I called you, I called, and I hope it was you. You sounded like a > ***ager that has nothing better to do than harass others. You sounded > young and I gave you a chance but you persisted in harassing me.The > police have your information and if and when they verify it is you I > will post your address and info. You cannot go around abusing others, > your parents failed miserably. I have no life I am stuck at home to > sick to go out and do much, and to have you and people invading my > privacy and a continuous stream of messages harassing me is more than > anyone should have to endure, especially people that are sick and > disabled! > ----------

Uh, the only person on a tirade here is YOU. First off, ALL of this ***is HIGHLY OFF-TOPIC. None of the rest of us CARE. If you're too stupid to grasp the concept that coming into a newsgroup acting this way is an INVITATION to have MORE people give you a hard time, then you basically get whatever comes to you. Note however, that ribbing you and calling you an idiot is NOT abuse or harrassment, yet you calling someone at their HOME most definitely is. Simple solution - if people get to you on the net, LEAVE. Get a book, read it and watch TV or something. At least, learn how to use the killfilter in your newsreader / email proggy. Trust me, LOTS of people use theirs on you. And just basically get over yourself. You seem incredibly self-important, to think that people care enough to spend time "harrassing and abusing" you, or that anybody not involved with this CARES. And, btw, THERE IS NO 16MB VOODOO2 - it was either a Voodoo3 or a Banshee. Period. This would be hilarious if this guy weren't actually serious about all this - since he is, it's pretty damn sad. -- Ken's Sig 3.0 "Who is the more foolish? The fool, or the fool who follows him?" - Obi-Wan Kenobi Go #43 and #44! >This person s on a tirade against me, harassing me and I am outing >this person. I am contacting the appropriate authorities. While most >people here I am sure are good and just want to enjoy Sims, there are >some very mean, ***, and sick people here that need to be turned in >so they do not abuse others >----------------- >-------------------------------------- > ICQ History Log For: > 28481913 mark > Started on Fri Jul 02 21:08:23 1999 >-------------------------------------- >mark 7/2/99 8:11 PM who exactly do you think you are? did you > think i wouldn't intercept your >little 'abuse' > message? >- >snipped.. >well I called you, I called, and I hope it was you. You sounded like a >***ager that has nothing better to do than harass others. You sounded >young and I gave you a chance but you persisted in harassing me.The >police have your information and if and when they verify it is you I >will post your address and info. You cannot go around abusing others, >your parents failed miserably. I have no life I am stuck at home to >sick to go out and do much, and to have you and people invading my >privacy and a continuous stream of messages harassing me is more than >anyone should have to endure, especially people that are sick and >disabled! >----------

Grow up. Go and post your silly little arguments on a server that cares. This is for Sim Racing, not for your pathetic wimpering.

If you must continue in this manner, take it elsewhere, please. I am very serious. Looking back at every post you accuse of being equivalent to "harassment," I have found that you, YOU are the one who first escalates a mere correction into a flame-war and then something a little more odd, more disturbing. This newsgroup is for discussions of racing sims, and you are perverting it. No one's out to "get" you here. It seems to me rather that you want to draw attention to yourself, and magnify it in order to validate something about yourself you've come to believe in quite strongly (e.g. your "victimization"). But wouldn't some sort of support newsgroup for those who suffer from your illness be a better forum? If one doesn't exist, why not start one? Surely it'd be a better place than this (rec.autos.simulators) for you. Before you accuse me of censorship, let me say that your comments about racing sims, etc. are of course quite welcome (as was your post about Voodoo Banshee [not Voodoo 2] cards). But not this type of stuff. It's no fun for us, and (I hope) it's no fun for you. best wishes, David Karr <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> This person s on a tirade against me, harassing me and I am outing > this person. I am contacting the appropriate authorities. While most > people here I am sure are good and just want to enjoy Sims, there are > some very mean, nasty, and sick people here that need to be turned in > so they do not abuse others > ----------------- > ICQ 28481913 E-mail:[email hidden] > -------------------------------------- > ICQ History Log For: > 28481913 mark > Started on Fri Jul 02 21:08:23 1999 > -------------------------------------- > mark 7/2/99 8:11 PM who exactly do you think you are? did you > think i wouldn't intercept your > little 'abuse' > message? > NASCAR/SQ 7/2/99 8:32 PM you have a lot of nerve I am very sick > and > you continue to abuse me. Youy are > lucky there > arre laws against someone grabbing > your ass > and stopping your abuse the old > fashioned way. > Now! do not ever hassle me again in > any way > shape or form! Do not ever contact > me again! > mark 7/2/99 8:34 PM what the hell are you talking about?? in > what > way have i ever abused you? if > anything i > defended you- albeit in a roundabout > way. yet > you threaten me physically and whine > to my > school (actually me) about me.... i > don't > understand. > NASCAR/SQ 7/2/99 8:38 PM You have chnace now befor ei contact the > police...think before you screw > up... > I am sick in severe pain and on > morphine, I am > not in a good mood and I have some > idiot > harassing me...do You want me to > continue? > mark 7/2/99 8:41 PM yes, i'd love for you to continue. and i > think > you must be on a lot more than > morphine. > please- call the police.... i'm sure > they're > as tired of your paranoid ravings as > the rest > of us in rasn and ras. and i have > yet to see > in what way i ever "harassed" you. > produce > evidence before you go > complaining.... > mark 7/2/99 8:42 PM quite honestly, you're the one harassing > me.... > NASCAR/SQ 7/2/99 8:43 PM You are asking for trouble and I am > giving you > a chance to back down...you do not > get it..you > cannot harass others, I wil do > whatever it > takes to stop you...leave me alone! > NASCAR/SQ 7/2/99 8:44 PM ok.have it your way...I hope that my > actions > help you undertstand, > nothing that makes sense gets throug > to > you!!!!!!! > goodbye > mark 7/2/99 8:44 PM hey, pal- you're the one who is doing the > harassing. you contacted me at my > school to > complain about .... what, exactly? > (nothing, > actually). so if anyone should "back > down" > (ooooh, you're so tough)-- it's most > assuredly > you. but i'd still like to know what > you're > accusing me of! > mark 7/2/99 8:46 PM oh, really? what "actions" do you > threaten > now? > i have saved all of your > correspondence. > perhaps you have me confused with > someone > else?? > mark 7/2/99 8:50 PM oh, man- stop! i can't take it anymore!! > your > "actions" are simply killing me.... > you're such a joke. > mark 7/2/99 9:04 PM wow- was that the best you could do??? > you're > even sadder than i thought. try > calling the > police instead!! hahahaha!! > ---------------------

I imagine you are on 'benefit', scrounging off the system. I work for the UK Benefits agency for the South West, and people like you really***me off. Why don't you just stop being so misearble and get on with your sodding life? ( I accept that there are a minority of people in this world who need help, of course :) sick to go out and do much, and to have you and people invading my privacy and a continuous stream of messages harassing me is more than anyone should have to endure, especially people that are sick and disabled!<< Rob Swindells 4th in Goldline Bearing FFord Championship (12 Points); 8 points behined Championship Leader (as of round 3 of 6)

You're damn right it is. It's certainly uncalled for to post all this ***on the newsgroup, and I can't believe you thought anyone might be interested. Go away and deal with it - what are we supposed to do? I live in Scotland, should I fly over there and beat him up? Jeez. Cheers! John

these are 2 people who really need to get out more hey guys when is the last time either of you saw the sun or sky?

> ICQ History Log For: And this log is supposed to SUPPORT your claims of "abuse"? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAhahahaha ... hahaha ... thanks for the laugh, I needed that! Joe McGinn ========================================== Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network [link lost in import: /***.com/] ==========================================

>**news flash**- this guy just called me at my *house* at 1:00AM to threaten >me!! Seriously? You should call the police - making a threatening phone call is illegal in most states. The police will be able to trace the call back through the phone company. Joe McGinn ========================================== Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network [link lost in import: /***.com/] ==========================================

>snipped.. >well I called you, I called, and I hope it was you. You sounded like a >***ager that has nothing better to do than harass others. You sounded >young and I gave you a chance but you persisted in harassing me.The >police have your information ... Sorry, if you actually called and threatened him (even an implied threat) then you are the only one the police will be interested in, and rightly so. Joe McGinn ========================================== Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network [link lost in import: /***.com/] ==========================================

Well, most of the ***s I know who have "come out" (meaning that, in many cases, they no longer will hide their *** preference) do not consider themselves as "hiding" behind the term "gay." In this country (the U.S.A.) the word "gay" is almost completely associated (as you note, more generally) with ***ity. Gays know it, ***s know it, and straights (both the tolerant ones and those who aren't) know it. So as for hiding . .er . . .well, if a term is so profoundly linked with a certain cultural identity (or set of identities), how can you suggest there is hiding going on? Who's left to hide from? Grandma and grandpa? If I'm Caucasian, but I call myself "white," would you say I'm hiding behind that term? Do you really think that those who call themselves gay (instead of calling themselves ***--and let's admit it: this isn't an either-or situation--most do both, after all . . .), do you really think they're hoping that most people won't notice? I think you're making a bit of an assumption with the word "hide" . . . Wow, this really is off-topic! But there it is . . . In good faith, David PS If you argue with me, I'll call the police! Most effective, I hear.

Yes, Mark. I understand that but it is a word that, when now heard, is automatically associated with ***ity.

Rob The fact that someone working in the UK Benefits system has a deep seated resentment for the social under-class that you are there to support, worries me more than some lonely US loony making idle threats. Far be it for me to come anywhere close to supporting this idiot, I would like to think that if for any reason I was invalided and unable to work, that it would not be seen as "Scrounging" from the system. Surely your job is there to support those less fortunate than yourself, and as you are funding yourself through a FormulaFord season, something I have never been able to afford, I can only assume that you are more fortunate than most. SteveG

Whatever. I still find it rather sad that a perfectly neat little descriptive word, that has been around for generations, has had it's meaning totally changed because ***s abhor the contraction "homo". Bi-***s don't seem to be offended by the term "bi" when it comes to labels and as far as I am aware the term "hetero" hasn't caused an outcry amongst we hetero***s (a "straight" is something else entirely, as far as I am concerned) My argument is less about *** preferences and tolerance and more about the demolition of English, I suppose. > Well, most of the ***s I know who have "come out" (meaning that, in > many cases, they no longer will hide their *** preference) do not > consider themselves as "hiding" behind the term "gay." In this country (the > U.S.A.) the word "gay" is almost completely associated (as you note, more > generally) with ***ity. Gays know it, ***s know it, and > straights (both the tolerant ones and those who aren't) know it. So as for > hiding . .er . . .well, if a term is so profoundly linked with a certain > cultural identity (or set of identities), how can you suggest there is > hiding going on? Who's left to hide from? Grandma and grandpa? > If I'm Caucasian, but I call myself "white," would you say I'm hiding behind

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> that term? > Do you really think that those who call themselves gay (instead of calling > themselves ***--and let's admit it: this isn't an either-or > situation--most do both, after all . . .), do you really think they're > hoping that most people won't notice? > I think you're making a bit of an assumption with the word "hide" . . . > Wow, this really is off-topic! But there it is . . . > In good faith, > David > PS If you argue with me, I'll call the police! Most effective, I hear. > > "Outing" > > Yet another example of a perfectly good word, used for generations in

the > > context (example) "We went on an outing to the beach", now being > associated > > with > > ***ity. > > Just like the word "gay", once an innocuous English word that simply meant

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> > "happy". > > If ***ity is nothing to be ashamed about, why do those who have > this > > bent hide behind the word "gay? > > Just curious.........nothing more.

"If being *** is okay, why not use the word "***" when describing *** preference?" They do, they do! I'm sorry, but what's your point? "They" (as if there's one huge monolithic *** bloc or something!) may say "gay rights" but they also say "equal protection for ***s under the law" and what not . . . You're contructing a rather wild dichotomy, aren't you? There's the ***s, maybe a few, who "fess up" and call themselves true blue ***s; and then there's (you've implied) the majority, who avoid that term, and instead call themselves "gay." Bruce, it jes' aint' lak that. sigh. DK PS Yes, yes, off-topic and all that . . .

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>This person s on a tirade against me, harassing me and I am outing >this person. I am contacting the appropriate authorities. While most >people here I am sure are good and just want to enjoy Sims, there are >some very mean, ***, and sick people here that need to be turned in >so they do not abuse others >----------------- >-------------------------------------- > ICQ History Log For: > 28481913 mark > Started on Fri Jul 02 21:08:23 1999

[psycho dogshit snipped] Thanks for clarifying whether you are mentally retarded or not. Wow. -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

One last thing. *PLONK* -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com >This person s on a tirade against me, harassing me and I am outing >this person. I am contacting the appropriate authorities. While most >people here I am sure are good and just want to enjoy Sims, there are >some very mean, ***, and sick people here that need to be turned in >so they do not abuse others >----------------- >-------------------------------------- > ICQ History Log For: > 28481913 mark > Started on Fri Jul 02 21:08:23 1999 >-------------------------------------- >mark 7/2/99 8:11 PM who exactly do you think you are? did you > think i wouldn't intercept your >little 'abuse' > message? >NASCAR/SQ 7/2/99 8:32 PM you have a lot of nerve I am very sick >and > you continue to abuse me. Youy are >lucky there > arre laws against someone grabbing >your ass > and stopping your abuse the old >fashioned way. > Now! do not ever hassle me again in >any way > shape or form! Do not ever contact >me again! >mark 7/2/99 8:34 PM what the hell are you talking about?? in >what > way have i ever abused you? if >anything i > defended you- albeit in a roundabout >way. yet > you threaten me physically and whine >to my > school (actually me) about me.... i >don't > understand. >NASCAR/SQ 7/2/99 8:38 PM You have chnace now befor ei contact the > police...think before you*** >up... > I am sick in severe pain and on >morphine, I am > not in a good mood and I have some >idiot > harassing me...do You want me to >continue? >mark 7/2/99 8:41 PM yes, i'd love for you to continue. and i >think > you must be on a lot more than >morphine. > please- call the police.... i'm sure >they're > as tired of your paranoid ravings as >the rest > of us in rasn and ras. and i have >yet to see > in what way i ever "harassed" you. >produce > evidence before you go >complaining.... >mark 7/2/99 8:42 PM quite honestly, you're the one harassing > me.... >NASCAR/SQ 7/2/99 8:43 PM You are asking for trouble and I am >giving you > a chance to back down...you do not >get it..you > cannot harass others, I wil do >whatever it > takes to stop you...leave me alone! >NASCAR/SQ 7/2/99 8:44 PM ok.have it your way...I hope that my >actions > help you undertstand, > nothing that makes sense gets throug >to > you!!!!!!! > goodbye >mark 7/2/99 8:44 PM hey, pal- you're the one who is doing the > harassing. you contacted me at my >school to > complain about .... what, exactly? >(nothing, > actually). so if anyone should "back >down" > (ooooh, you're so tough)-- it's most >assuredly > you. but i'd still like to know what >you're > accusing me of! >mark 7/2/99 8:46 PM oh, really? what "actions" do you >threaten > now? > i have saved all of your >correspondence. > perhaps you have me confused with >someone > else?? >mark 7/2/99 8:50 PM oh, man- stop! i can't take it anymore!! >your > "actions" are simply killing me.... > you're such a joke. >mark 7/2/99 9:04 PM wow- was that the best you could do??? >you're > even sadder than i thought. try >calling the > police instead!! hahahaha!! >---------------------

(a "straight" is something else entirely, as far as And me, but please don't remind me where I nearly lost my shirt the other night. Gawd I hate poker <G> Mark

No, his job is to help those "Truly In Need" and not those lazy and worthless dogs that live off the system due to lack of ambition , desire, and acceptance of personnel responsibility. Paul

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> >This person s on a tirade against me, harassing me and I am outing > >this person. I am contacting the appropriate authorities. While most > >people here I am sure are good and just want to enjoy Sims, there are > >some very mean, ***, and sick people here that need to be turned in > >so they do not abuse others > When you feed the troll, you only encourage him to continue. > The best way to deal with annoying people is to ignore them. You're > using Agent as a newsreader, good, put a global kill ( delete ) filter > on your pest and he will be gone from your usenet experience. > Delete him from your icq list, if he sends you another message, don't > respond to it, click on the 'ignore' button. He'll be gone from your > icq experience. > If he sends you email, install an email kill filter to autodelete > anything he sends you. > If you see him on IRC, /ignore him. > Don't feed the troll. He'll go away. > glen

He wouldn't have anything to complain about, and try to get sympathy about. What fun would that be for him? Don't you guys get it? He LOVES the attention this brings him.

Thanks Paul, this is what I mean. I shouldn't really have said anything. It's a stupid job, and really not worth getting irate about. It just gets to me, the fact that my father gives $50,000 to our govt. in taxes only for it to be wasted on these people. Over half the aplicants are for "drug ***ion" or "depression". Cheer up, and get over it is what I say. I have very little sympathy for drug abusers and scroungers... all they need to do is get their arses in gear, like me and my working towards FFord racing. All it takes is a little ambition. Am I not correct, sir? worthless dogs that live off the system due to lack of ambition , desire, and acceptance of personnel responsibility.!!<<<< Rob Swindells 4th in Goldline Bearing FFord Championship (12 Points); 8 points behined Championship Leader (as of round 3 of 6)

Okay......I'll blame the universal scapegoat: the media.

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> "If being *** is okay, why not use the word "***" when > describing *** > preference?" > They do, they do! I'm sorry, but what's your point? > "They" (as if there's one huge monolithic *** bloc or something!)

may > say "gay rights" but they also say "equal protection for ***s under > the law" and what not . . . > You're contructing a rather wild dichotomy, aren't you? There's the > ***s, maybe a few, who "fess up" and call themselves true blue > ***s; and then there's (you've implied) the majority, who avoid that

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> term, and instead call themselves "gay." > Bruce, it jes' aint' lak that. > sigh. > DK > PS Yes, yes, off-topic and all that . . .

I was thinking more along the track (pun intended) of that really long bit at the 'Ring before the end of each lap!! :o)

"personnel" responsibility??? Which personnel are these dogs responsible for? Bravo Company? The entire British Army? The complete staff of the Internal Revenue Service? Ohhh! You mean *PERSONAL*?!!! Sorry.

: Whatever. : I still find it rather sad that a perfectly neat little descriptive word, : that has been around for generations, has had it's meaning totally changed : because ***s abhor the contraction "homo". : Bi-***s don't seem to be offended by the term "bi" when it comes to : labels and as far as I am aware the term "hetero" hasn't caused an outcry : amongst we hetero***s (a "straight" is something else entirely, as far as : I am concerned) : My argument is less about *** preferences and tolerance and more about : the demolition of English, I suppose. BS. You're hung up on one particular word *because* it has a second meaning implying ***, and this makes you nervous. No one seems to give a rat's ass about other double entendres which exist and which have evolved in the English language. "pull, root, shag, come..." Say them all in the right place and with the right context, and you've thrown dirt on a perfectly good English word. Get over your hang-up, or at least your pedantic ways. The English language is not going to die just because we are lacking one work to describe something which is cheerful, happy, convival, frolicsome, good-humoured, joyful, jovial, etc. And Hawthorne's driving is no less brilliant just because the English language has moved on since his epitath was written. Stephen

: (Sigh) No, Ronny.......I'm NOT a *** basher, simply a curious : philosopher in search of answers to basic questions such as "If being : *** is okay, why not use the word "***" when describing *** : preference?" : Just one of those imponderables of life that raise my curiosity level a : notch. There are better things to wonder about. The language of *** preference is as much influenced by the hetero*** community as it is by the *** community. No one "stole" your sacred words "gay" and "outing" - the language evolved from both sides. Stephen

Automatically associated in your mind perhaps. Generally it depends on context rather than general meaning. This is hardly the place for a Grandfather Kennewell rant on "taking back our words" from the gay community. M >Yes, Mark. I understand that but it is a word that, when now heard, is >automatically associated with ***ity.

A *large* percentage of those claiming disability benefits are doing so fraudulenty and are getting away with it because people are becoming afraid to point the finger at them. Many in the benefits system are upset that the people who need most help are being drowned out by those too lazy to work or help themselves. Anyway... this is way off topic. M

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>Rob >The fact that someone working in the UK Benefits system has a deep >seated resentment for the social under-class that you are there to >support, worries me more than some lonely US loony making idle threats. >Far be it for me to come anywhere close to supporting this idiot, I >would like to think that if for any reason I was invalided and unable to >work, that it would not be seen as "Scrounging" from the system. >Surely your job is there to support those less fortunate than yourself, >and as you are funding yourself through a FormulaFord season, something >I have never been able to afford, I can only assume that you are more >fortunate than most. >SteveG >> I imagine you are on 'benefit', scrounging off the system. I work for >> the >UK >> Benefits agency for the South West, and people like you really***me >off. Why >> don't you just stop being so misearble and get on with your sodding >> life? >> ( I accept that there are a minority of people in this world who need >help, of >> course :) >> >>I have no life I am stuck at home to >> sick to go out and do much, and to have you and people invading my >> privacy and a continuous stream of messages harassing me is more than >> anyone should have to endure, especially people that are sick and >> disabled!<< >> Rob Swindells >> 4th in Goldline Bearing FFord Championship (12 Points); >> 8 points behined Championship Leader (as of round 3 of 6)

Especially if he's going to post his name and address in here. M

"*BETTER* things to wonder about"?? Who are you to determine what, for another person, is "better" or not? I find the English language, its construction and usage, and the changes that occur to be of interest. Whether or not there I have "better" things to wonder about is entirely up to me! The "language" did not "evolve" when it came to the bastardisation of the two words used as examples.......the words pre-existed, they were not produced from other words. The meanings did not "evolve"....they were invented. > : (Sigh) No, Ronny.......I'm NOT a *** basher, simply a curious > : philosopher in search of answers to basic questions such as "If being > : *** is okay, why not use the word "***" when describing ***

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> : preference?" > : Just one of those imponderables of life that raise my curiosity level a > : notch. > There are better things to wonder about. The language of *** > preference is as much influenced by the hetero*** community as it is by > the *** community. No one "stole" your sacred words "gay" and > "outing" - the language evolved from both sides. > Stephen

"Moved on"?? That's debatable!

HAAAA! Lovely comeback!! Thanks, Meiji. But please........don't try and convince me that, when the word "gay" is used, the majority of listeners or readers don't associate it with some reference to ***ity.

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> Automatically associated in your mind perhaps. Generally it depends on > context rather than general meaning. This is hardly the place for a > Grandfather Kennewell rant on "taking back our words" from the gay > community. > M > >Yes, Mark. I understand that but it is a word that, when now heard, is > >automatically associated with ***ity.

. And Hawthorne's I quite agree about the driving <yeah>. It is just a shame <you know wot I mean> that future generations will make assumptions when they read the <cool>stone though <ok>. As it stands, youngsters are seen to have quite a giggle at it as they pass by <right>. My grammar and command of language <Yeah> is far from perfect but I'm afraid that I'm with Bruce when it comes to opinions in this area. I'm not going to get into symantics over one word however. Nah wot I mean yeah.<wicked> Mark ;-)

Gay, yes... but I have a large enough vocabulary to find alternative words for happiness or joyousness or frivolity. The way languages change means that things like this will always happen it's just that a lot of people dislike the movement of this word to be used solely in the context of ***ity. I suspect if gay was used to describe something else it would be okay. Well... maybe ;) M

> . And Hawthorne's > > driving is no less brilliant just because the English language has moved > > on since his epitath was written. Am I the only person who thinks Mike Hawthorne was a complete *** for killing himself in the way he did? (While racing a friend on the A3 near Guildford he lost control and crashed head-on into a lorry). Racing on a track is one thing, but since he could quite easily have killed the occupants of an oncoming car this was not something that should be admired IMHO.

Hawthorne was not racing Rob Walker that day. Hawthorne was just driving very fast in the rain. Rob infact was trying to keep pace and even said this pace might be allright for a world champion, but not for me and he then started to hang back. At that time Rob saw Hawthornes car go sliding off the road killing him. Rob mentioned this in a Road and Track article on about some of the cars Rob owned. Dave > > . And Hawthorne's > > > driving is no less brilliant just because the English language has moved

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> > > on since his epitath was written. > Am I the only person who thinks Mike Hawthorne was a complete *** > for killing himself in the way he did? (While racing a friend on the A3 > near Guildford he lost control and crashed head-on into a lorry). > Racing on a track is one thing, but since he could quite easily have > killed the occupants of an oncoming car this was not something that > should be admired IMHO.

> Hawthorne was not racing Rob Walker that day. Hawthorne was just driving > very fast in the rain. Rob infact was trying to keep pace and even said > this pace might be allright for a world champion, but not for me and he > then started to hang back. At that time Rob saw Hawthornes car go sliding > off the road killing him. It may be all right for a world champion to drive like that on the track, where everyone knows and accepts the risks (up to a point), but it's certainly not all right to risk the lives of innocent people on public roads, whether you're the world champion or not. Sorry to go on about this, but it really made me angry when I read a newspaper article by some sycophantic journalist who actually admired Mike Hawthorne for his "devil-may-care" attitude. I respect his right to take risks on his own behalf, but he should respect other people's wish NOT to take risks! I guess he paid the ultimate price in the end, and perhaps that was the way he would have wanted to go: I'd probably have admired someone who risked their own life for some great achievement (eg. climbing Everest or whatever), but it's the cavalier attitude to other people's lives that I find unacceptable.

Well, he can be an unofficial mentally retarded guy of r.a.s. <grin> :) -- -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard/Nas-Frank> -- NROS Nascar sanctioned Guide http://www.nros.com/ -- SimRacing Online http://www.simracing.com/ -- Official mentally retarded guy of r.a.s. -- May the Downforce be with you... "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

>> Thanks for clarifying whether you are mentally retarded or not. >> Wow. >Well, he can be an unofficial mentally retarded guy of r.a.s. <grin> :) You are the resident expert in such matters. -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

Your pretty good at it most of the time also. *Half-plonk* -- -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard/Nas-Frank> -- NROS Nascar sanctioned Guide http://www.nros.com/ -- SimRacing Online http://www.simracing.com/ -- Official mentally retarded guy of r.a.s. -- May the Downforce be with you... "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

On Tue, 6 Jul 1999 07:33:54 +1000, "Bruce Kennewell" >He died not because of stupidity but because he was driving at the limit of >the car, not himself, Surely driving over the limit of a car on public roads IS stupidity, quite an exceptional statement really... Anthony Bulloch

Amen. I think BK has a very innocent view of language. As I pointed out in another post, the word "gay" *has* evolved. And yes, Bruce, the meanings "were there"--they were there ready and waiting to be slipped *just a bit* to point towards a new marker. Because (read this part carefully) they already included in their connotations references to behaviors with which ***s were associated in culturally-powerful stereotypes. BK mentions "bastardization." Just when did the bastardization occur, Bruce? When someone first used the word "gay" to mean a bit over-the-top instead of "simply happy" (no doubt this pioneer, this ***erer, threw aside his/her copy of Bruce Kennewall, Esq.'s _A True and Strict Lexicographie of All the Words in the English Tongue, with their Sundry Secondary and Evil Corruptive Meanings Physicked and Purged_). Give me a break, Bruce. Your position is untenable, and tiresome. And just a bit cruel.

BK According to my OED, since the 17C at least, "gay" has had connotations of excess, of being descriptive of those "addicated to pleasure" (that is to say, for the last well-nigh four-hundred years anyway, it hasn't "simply" meant 'happy' at all--it's been a code for "effeminacy"). By the very early part of this now-ending century, that usage had slipped to include euphemistic references to ***ity (and I imagine that slippage was generated at *least* as much by straights as it was by gays). It's not a new development. But since the late-fifties, and more strongly in the sixties and then after Stonewall, Gays seem to have appropriated this once-derogatory term as a marker of identity and pride. That process too, is nothing new. In fact, since you're so interested in (and I quote) "the English language, its construction and usage, and the changes that occur," I'm sure can find other instances of this type of appropriation (hint: sans-colouttes, Jacobins, Yankees, etc.) But--surprise--this one somehow stuck out. Your anxiety is showing. After all, the rhetorical strategy behind the formulation "If ***ity is nothing to be ashamed about, how come . .blah blah blah" is a not-so-subtle way of saying it is indeed shameful, eh? You offer the concluding clause as lurking, potential "proof" of your supposition. And again, the "perfectly good" word (gay=simply happy) is "now" something different (***ity). A tale of corruption! Bruce gives us the Edenic Fall of an innocent word! But wait, let's suppose "they" are hiding (maybe some do). Let's suppose "they" (all these like-minded automatons) do want to avoid the explicit reference to ***ity and "the dirty stuff." Why on earth would "they" do that except out of that barely-hidden Shame which BK so masterfully uncovers? Welllll . . . how about insecurity of employment? How about social exclusion? How about mortal fear? DK

There has been a tonne of stuff written about this incident down the years but the most telling is that by an ex-Jaguar employee who makes reference to the fact that Hawthorn was going to get his Jag returned to the factory for modifications to suspension and brakes. One of those mods concerned the rear track, which Hawthorn considered as being "too narrow ". This observation was agreed with by the Jaguar engineers and, on the next version of the Mk. II, the track was increased. He died not because of stupidity but because he was driving at the limit of the car, not himself, > > . And Hawthorne's > > > driving is no less brilliant just because the English language has moved

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> > > on since his epitath was written. > Am I the only person who thinks Mike Hawthorne was a complete *** > for killing himself in the way he did? (While racing a friend on the A3 > near Guildford he lost control and crashed head-on into a lorry). > Racing on a track is one thing, but since he could quite easily have > killed the occupants of an oncoming car this was not something that > should be admired IMHO.

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>Thanks Paul, this is what I mean. I shouldn't really have said anything. It's >a >stupid job, and really not worth getting irate about. It just gets to me, the >fact that my father gives $50,000 to our govt. in taxes only for it to be >wasted on these people. Over half the aplicants are for "drug ***ion" or >"depression". Cheer up, and get over it is what I say. I have very little >sympathy for drug abusers and scroungers... all they need to do is get their >arses in gear, like me and my working towards FFord racing. All it takes is a >little ambition. Am I not correct, sir?

Your father pays $50,000 in TAXES? Holw cow, I don't make that much in a YEAR... Would you consider ME a 'scrounger'? Eldred __ Put your message in a modem, and throw it in the ***-sea... remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

writes: Hmm..funny how you stop showing YOUR side of the conversation... This doesn't do you your case much good. __ Put your message in a modem, and throw it in the ***-sea... remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

I'm not really anxious about anything, David. More a lively curiosity than anything else. > BK > According to my OED, since the 17C at least, "gay" has had connotations of > excess, of being descriptive of those "addicated to pleasure" (that is to > say, for the last well-nigh four-hundred years anyway, it hasn't "simply" > meant 'happy' at all--it's been a code for "effeminacy"). By the very early > part of this now-ending century, that usage had slipped to include > euphemistic references to ***ity (and I imagine that slippage was > generated at *least* as much by straights as it was by gays). It's not a > new development. > But since the late-fifties, and more strongly in the sixties and then after > Stonewall, Gays seem to have appropriated this once-derogatory term as a > marker of identity and pride. That process too, is nothing new. > In fact, since you're so interested in (and I quote) "the English language,

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> its construction and usage, and the changes that occur," I'm sure can find > other instances of this type of appropriation (hint: sans-colouttes, > Jacobins, Yankees, etc.) > But--surprise--this one somehow stuck out. > Your anxiety is showing. After all, the rhetorical strategy behind the > formulation "If ***ity is nothing to be ashamed about, how come . > .blah blah blah" is a not-so-subtle way of saying it is indeed shameful,

eh?

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> You offer the concluding clause as lurking, potential "proof" of your > supposition. And again, the "perfectly good" word (gay=simply happy) is > "now" something different (***ity). A tale of corruption! Bruce > gives us the Edenic Fall of an innocent word! > But wait, let's suppose "they" are hiding (maybe some do). Let's suppose > "they" (all these like-minded automatons) do want to avoid the explicit > reference to ***ity and "the dirty stuff." Why on earth would

"they"

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> do that except out of that barely-hidden Shame which BK so masterfully > uncovers? > Welllll . . . how about insecurity of employment? How about social > exclusion? How about mortal fear? > DK > > "Outing" > > Yet another example of a perfectly good word, used for generations in

the > > context (example) "We went on an outing to the beach", now being > associated > > with > > ***ity. > > Just like the word "gay", once an innocuous English word that simply meant

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> > "happy". > > If ***ity is nothing to be ashamed about, why do those who have > this > > bent hide behind the word "gay? > > Just curious.........nothing more.

Cruel?? To whom? ***s?

Why are you talking about ***s now? :-)) Tore

Like " the poop deck" eh? I remember when the "Flinstones" cartoon used the words...."and we'll have a gay old time"....I wasn't aware at the time, that this meant their *** preferences. Who knew that this was the "gay" entertainment community's insidious wedge to push the acceptance of their lifestyle onto what was to become the very foundation of the SIM Racing world. <g> How English words change, but it's not new. You can find a bunch of them if you read an older "King James Bible" The meaning of some words are completely opposite to what they originally meant, thus obscuring a correct understanding of the text....even if you take the context into consideration. I can supply a few examples if you like. Tore

You should have been born French Bruce. I understand they don't put up with the corruption of their pure language :-)) Tore

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> Whatever. > I still find it rather sad that a perfectly neat little descriptive word, > that has been around for generations, has had it's meaning totally changed > because ***s abhor the contraction "homo". > Bi-***s don't seem to be offended by the term "bi" when it comes to > labels and as far as I am aware the term "hetero" hasn't caused an outcry > amongst we hetero***s (a "straight" is something else entirely, as far

as

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> I am concerned) > My argument is less about *** preferences and tolerance and more about > the demolition of English, I suppose. > > Well, most of the ***s I know who have "come out" (meaning that,

in > > many cases, they no longer will hide their *** preference) do not > > consider themselves as "hiding" behind the term "gay." In this country > (the > > U.S.A.) the word "gay" is almost completely associated (as you note, more > > generally) with ***ity. Gays know it, ***s know it, and > > straights (both the tolerant ones and those who aren't) know it. So as > for > > hiding . .er . . .well, if a term is so profoundly linked with a certain

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> > cultural identity (or set of identities), how can you suggest there is > > hiding going on? Who's left to hide from? Grandma and grandpa? > > If I'm Caucasian, but I call myself "white," would you say I'm hiding > behind > > that term? > > Do you really think that those who call themselves gay (instead of

calling

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> > themselves ***--and let's admit it: this isn't an either-or > > situation--most do both, after all . . .), do you really think they're > > hoping that most people won't notice? > > I think you're making a bit of an assumption with the word "hide" . . . > > Wow, this really is off-topic! But there it is . . . > > In good faith, > > David > > PS If you argue with me, I'll call the police! Most effective, I hear. > > > "Outing" > > > Yet another example of a perfectly good word, used for generations in > the > > > context (example) "We went on an outing to the beach", now being > > associated > > > with > > > ***ity. > > > Just like the word "gay", once an innocuous English word that simply > meant > > > "happy". > > > If ***ity is nothing to be ashamed about, why do those who have > > this > > > bent hide behind the word "gay? > > > Just curious.........nothing more.

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> On Tue, 6 Jul 1999 07:33:54 +1000, "Bruce Kennewell" > >He died not because of stupidity but because he was driving at the limit of > >the car, not himself, > Surely driving over the limit of a car on public roads IS stupidity, > quite an exceptional statement really... > Anthony Bulloch

Agree to some extent, but isn't this one of the Major Mysteries Of Motorsports? Didn't he have a hand throttle or some weird control on that car? Can't remember now, but my dad always starts talking about this...:) Matt -- Matthew Birger Knutsen Cheek Racing Cars http://www.cheekracing.electra.no

Matt, According to Rob Walker the car did have a hand throttle, and it supposedly stuck or that is what Rob theorized. Dave

HAHAHAHA!! (Guffaw!) G'day Tore...........oh, I just wanted to see how long I could go with this line before I laughed myself unconcious!! :o)

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> Why are you talking about ***s now? :-)) > Tore > > HAAAA! > > Lovely comeback!! > > Thanks, Meiji. > > But please........don't try and convince me that, when the word "gay" is > > used, the majority of listeners or readers don't associate it with some > > reference to ***ity.

Certainly not by those chaps over the other side of the French Channel, so I believe! :o) > You should have been born French Bruce. I understand they don't put up with

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> the corruption of their pure language :-)) > Tore > > Whatever. > > I still find it rather sad that a perfectly neat little descriptive word

I used to become totally frustrated at trying to read "olde" English, where the letter 's' was exactly the same as the letter 'f'. Captain Cook's chronicles were tedious......stuff like "fail the feven feas" becomes a bit wearing after a while!!! :o) > Like " the poop deck" eh? > I remember when the "Flinstones" cartoon used the words...."and we'll have a > gay old time"....I wasn't aware at the time, that this meant their *** > preferences. Who knew that this was the "gay" entertainment community's > insidious wedge to push the acceptance of their lifestyle onto what was to > become the very foundation of the SIM Racing world. <g> How English words > change, but it's not new. You can find a bunch of them if you read an older > "King James Bible" The meaning of some words are completely opposite to what > they originally meant, thus obscuring a correct understanding of the > text....even if you take the context into consideration. I can supply a few

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> examples if you like. > Tore > > . And Hawthorne's > > > driving is no less brilliant just because the English language has

moved > > > on since his epitath was written. > > I quite agree about the driving <yeah>. It is just a shame <you know wot I > > mean> that future generations will make assumptions when they read the > > <cool>stone > > though <ok>. As it stands, youngsters are seen to have quite a giggle at > it > > as they pass by <right>. My grammar and command of language <Yeah> is far > > from perfect but I'm afraid that I'm with Bruce when it comes to opinions > in > > this area. I'm not going to get into symantics over one word however. Nah > > wot I mean yeah.<wicked> > > Mark ;-)

Of course, "feas" should be "feaf"!! > I used to become totally frustrated at trying to read "olde" English, where > the letter 's' was exactly the same as the letter 'f'. > Captain Cook's chronicles were tedious......stuff like "fail the feven feas"

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> becomes a bit wearing after a while!!! :o) > > Like " the poop deck" eh? > > I remember when the "Flinstones" cartoon used the words...."and we'll

have > a > > gay old time"....I wasn't aware at the time, that this meant their *** > > preferences. Who knew that this was the "gay" entertainment community's > > insidious wedge to push the acceptance of their lifestyle onto what was to > > become the very foundation of the SIM Racing world. <g> How English words

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> > change, but it's not new. You can find a bunch of them if you read an > older > > "King James Bible" The meaning of some words are completely opposite to > what > > they originally meant, thus obscuring a correct understanding of the > > text....even if you take the context into consideration. I can supply a > few > > examples if you like. > > Tore > > > . And Hawthorne's > > > > driving is no less brilliant just because the English language has > moved > > > > on since his epitath was written. > > > I quite agree about the driving <yeah>. It is just a shame <you know

wot > I > > > mean> that future generations will make assumptions when they read the > > > <cool>stone > > > though <ok>. As it stands, youngsters are seen to have quite a giggle at

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> > it > > > as they pass by <right>. My grammar and command of language <Yeah> is > far > > > from perfect but I'm afraid that I'm with Bruce when it comes to > opinions > > in > > > this area. I'm not going to get into symantics over one word however. > Nah > > > wot I mean yeah.<wicked> > > > Mark ;-)

Fcuse me if you don't mind Bruce. We fail the feven feas on the Englifh Channel :-) -- Mark Seery GPML league director http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/mark.seery/ > Certainly not by those chaps over the other side of the French Channel, so I > believe! :o) > > You should have been born French Bruce. I understand they don't put up > with > > the corruption of their pure language :-)) > > Tore > > > Whatever. > > > I still find it rather sad that a perfectly neat little descriptive word

Actually, in an article in Thoroughbred & Classic Cars, Rob Walker said that when asked by the police at the scene of the crash, "What happened?", he replied "We were having a dice". He said that at the time it was kept quiet. Glenn

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> Hawthorne was not racing Rob Walker that day. Hawthorne was just driving > very fast in the rain. Rob infact was trying to keep pace and even said > this pace might be allright for a world champion, but not for me and he > then started to hang back. At that time Rob saw Hawthornes car go sliding > off the road killing him. > Rob mentioned this in a Road and Track article on about some of the cars > Rob owned. > Dave > > > . And Hawthorne's > > > > driving is no less brilliant just because the English language has > moved > > > > on since his epitath was written. > > Am I the only person who thinks Mike Hawthorne was a complete *** > > for killing himself in the way he did? (While racing a friend on the A3 > > near Guildford he lost control and crashed head-on into a lorry). > > Racing on a track is one thing, but since he could quite easily have > > killed the occupants of an oncoming car this was not something that > > should be admired IMHO.

LOL!!!! Don't *DO* that when I'm drinking!!

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> Fcuse me if you don't mind Bruce. We fail the feven feas on the Englifh > Channel :-) > -- > Mark Seery > GPML league director > http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/mark.seery/ > > Certainly not by those chaps over the other side of the French Channel,

so

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> I > > believe! :o) > > > You should have been born French Bruce. I understand they don't put up > > with > > > the corruption of their pure language :-)) > > > Tore > > > > Whatever. > > > > I still find it rather sad that a perfectly neat little descriptive > word

This is the MOST BIZARRE thread I've ever read... It has changed subjects several times, not that the original subject belonged here in the first place. BIZARRE! -Larry > Why are you talking about ***s now? :-)) > Tore

Good God! If you think *this* thread is bizarre, thank your lucky stars that you never visited "The Vegeserver"!!

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> This is the MOST BIZARRE thread I've ever read... > It has changed subjects several times, not that the original subject > belonged here in the first place. > BIZARRE! > -Larry > > Why are you talking about ***s now? :-)) > > Tore

BTW Bruce. Is that flying saucer ready to go yet? Mark

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> Good God! If you think *this* thread is bizarre, thank your lucky stars > that you never visited "The Vegeserver"!! > > This is the MOST BIZARRE thread I've ever read... > > It has changed subjects several times, not that the original subject > > belonged here in the first place. > > BIZARRE! > > -Larry > > > Why are you talking about ***s now? :-)) > > > Tore

what's that? sounds like lunch... that you never visited "The Vegeserver"!!

Well it is in a way.... pity there's so little calories in witty retorts. Jan./another "Vegeserver" regular <g> ------ >what's that? sounds like lunch... ><snip>

Nope............the construction is all done except for the high-temperature flux ducting (the material needed is almost impossible to manufacture without using a fissionable material, or several large micro-wave transmitters) and I haven't fitted the stereo system yet.

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> BTW Bruce. Is that flying saucer ready to go yet? > Mark > > Good God! If you think *this* thread is bizarre, thank your lucky stars > > that you never visited "The Vegeserver"!! > > > This is the MOST BIZARRE thread I've ever read... > > > It has changed subjects several times, not that the original subject > > > belonged here in the first place. > > > BIZARRE! > > > -Larry > > > > Why are you talking about ***s now? :-)) > > > > Tore

SPOT ON, Mark!! It's an edible server......sorta like the the edible panties of the 1960s, only crunchy. (And you don't get hairs stuck between your teeth!)

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> what's that? sounds like lunch... > >>Good God! If you think *this* thread is bizarre, thank your lucky stars > that you never visited "The Vegeserver"!! > > This is the MOST BIZARRE thread I've ever read... > > It has changed subjects several times, not that the original subject > > belonged here in the first place. > > BIZARRE! > > -Larry

As Bruce #33 would say: "scary mental picture". LOL ;-) Jan. ------

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>SPOT ON, Mark!! >It's an edible server......sorta like the the edible panties of the 1960s, >only crunchy. >(And you don't get hairs stuck between your teeth!) ><snip>

:o)

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> As Bruce #33 would say: "scary mental picture". LOL ;-) > Jan. > ------ > >SPOT ON, Mark!! > >It's an edible server......sorta like the the edible panties of the

1960s, > >only crunchy. > >(And you don't get hairs stuck between your teeth!) > ><snip>